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Subject: A solution to the useless repeat threads on The Flood

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

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Posted by: GoW I Lord Hood
Posted by: wHo iZ XtrEmE
All we need is Shishka v2 = problem solved.

No we need more people to not reply to spam, that would help a ton.

People not replying to spam would help, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. Part of the problem is that people haven't read the rules.


I have an AWESOME IDEA!

Okay, when you first go into the forums, you are redirected to a page with the basic rules for the forums in general.
To avoid people skipping the rules, you'll see a rule towards the end of the list that goes something like this...


15. If you have read all of the rules, click on the "S" in spam in rule number 7 to proceed to the forums!


Keep in mind that this would only appear once for each user!

  • 03.19.2008 8:23 PM PDT

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Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: GoW I Lord Hood
Posted by: wHo iZ XtrEmE
All we need is Shishka v2 = problem solved.

No we need more people to not reply to spam, that would help a ton.

People not replying to spam would help, but that's not going to happen anytime soon. Part of the problem is that people haven't read the rules.


I have an AWESOME IDEA!

Okay, when you first go into the forums, you are redirected to a page with the basic rules for the forums in general.
To avoid people skipping the rules, you'll see a rule towards the end of the list that goes something like this...


15. If you have read all of the rules, click on the "S" in spam in rule number 7 to proceed to the forums!


Keep in mind that this would only appear once for each user!

That combined with Hollohill's idea (minus the banning) would be perfect.

Edit: I'm going to bed. I'll discuss more tomorrow.

[Edited on 03.19.2008 8:34 PM PDT]

  • 03.19.2008 8:26 PM PDT
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The report button. The report button. The report button. The report button. The report button.

This is exactly why it was implemented. It is the tool that turns members into moderators.

These other ideas have been proposed many times, and shot down just as often. Instead of trying to get all these extra ideas passed, if everyone who complained about this stuff simply reported the threads, we'd go a long way towards cleaning it up.

  • 03.20.2008 2:18 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
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"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

I suggest you USE THE REPORT BUTTON.

Seriously - the entire point of that button is to let the moderators know when they miss something.

Additionally, eventually I might add the ability for you to auto-hide posts that have been sufficiently reported until a moderator deals with the report. That way, you guys could essentially self moderate if you really wanted to. Maybe in next month's update.

  • 03.20.2008 11:01 AM PDT
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That feature ^^

Would be cool, especially against PPL like that German guy yesterday. (who was taken care of relatively fast)

  • 03.20.2008 11:17 AM PDT

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Posted by: Achronos
I suggest you USE THE REPORT BUTTON.

Seriously - the entire point of that button is to let the moderators know when they miss something.

Additionally, eventually I might add the ability for you to auto-hide posts that have been sufficiently reported until a moderator deals with the report. That way, you guys could essentially self moderate if you really wanted to. Maybe in next month's update.

That would be great!

  • 03.20.2008 11:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
I suggest you USE THE REPORT BUTTON.

Seriously - the entire point of that button is to let the moderators know when they miss something.

Additionally, eventually I might add the ability for you to auto-hide posts that have been sufficiently reported until a moderator deals with the report. That way, you guys could essentially self moderate if you really wanted to. Maybe in next month's update.

Achronos...let's make out. I promise I won't tell Stosh.

  • 03.20.2008 11:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
Additionally, eventually I might add the ability for you to auto-hide posts that have been sufficiently reported until a moderator deals with the report. That way, you guys could essentially self moderate if you really wanted to. Maybe in next month's update.


One minor request: Can you add a method of turning this off? I don't want my forums to be moderated by the band of raving eejits that form an unfortunately sizable chunk of the population.

Also, these features are overrated. People are curious. If they see a hidden post, they'll do whatever they can to un hide so as to find out why it was hidden. If anything, it'll give the posts more exposure. Unless of course, once a post is hidden, it leaves no remnant, but then that's way too close to the general user being able to delete posts for my liking. It'd be way too easy for a group of people to engineer the hiding of a post. Unless you set the threshold really high, but then there may as well be no point.

  • 03.20.2008 11:25 AM PDT
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elmicker,

I would gaurentee that anyone going around abusing the system would be weilded out quickly.

The hidden posts will stay hidden until a mod can get to it.

just my opinion of observation.

  • 03.20.2008 11:28 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Any such feature would allow you to turn it off, yes. Although, the default for everybody would likely be "on". The only thing I'm not sure about is how to display those posts meant to be hidden. I'd probably just censor the subject and text but leave the body of the post there instead of outright hiding everything like I do for banned users. But I'm still undecided on that. I guess the big problem with hiding them outright is that people will start doubling posting, thinking their previous post got deleted or there was an error.

Regarding their point about people "unhiding" things... well, some people are like that, but really, if you're unhiding the reported spam, you don't get to complain about spam. At that point, it would be your own damn fault for being able to see stuff like that.

Other things I'm considering are a thumbs up/down for entire threads (not individual posts), and allowing you to sort the forum by the positive/negative status THEN by last post date if you so choose. Also, allowing you to sort by post creation date instead of last post date (and making that the default sort for the file forums so bumping threads has no effect there).

A lot of you focus on the problem of spam like it is caused by people not knowing the rules at all. That's silly - it is caused by people not caring what the rules are, combined by the sheer volume of stuff. The solution for spam, then, is to give you tools to elevate the good content to the top. This is a hard problem, of course. But suggestions that target that particular aspect are significantly more helpful than suggestions that assume people are ignorant of the rules, or suggestions like "get more moderators" or other negative reinforcement type suggestions. Moderators should be a last resort in an ideal system.

Posted by: elmicker

One minor request: Can you add a method of turning this off? I don't want my forums to be moderated by the band of raving eejits that form an unfortunately sizable chunk of the population.

Also, these features are overrated. People are curious. If they see a hidden post, they'll do whatever they can to un hide so as to find out why it was hidden. If anything, it'll give the posts more exposure. Unless of course, once a post is hidden, it leaves no remnant, but then that's way too close to the general user being able to delete posts for my liking. It'd be way too easy for a group of people to engineer the hiding of a post. Unless you set the threshold really high, but then there may as well be no point.


[Edited on 03.20.2008 11:41 AM PDT]

  • 03.20.2008 11:32 AM PDT
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It could display a message such as

"The contents of this post are under review until a mod can deal with it"

  • 03.20.2008 11:34 AM PDT
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The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

No. I do not think post's should be hidden even if they are reported a lot. f this were the case we know if people disagreed with the OP and reported the thread they would effectively make it vanish. Any such system will be abused no matter what people think.

  • 03.20.2008 11:40 AM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

I've got it! Let's just get rid of the Flood. No worries about hiding posts, etc... etc..!

  • 03.20.2008 11:44 AM PDT
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Just read the edit and omg to the files forum fix.

That is one of the bigger problems and that would knock it out totally.



Yes Yoozel the flood is out of control! ^^

[Edited on 03.20.2008 11:45 AM PDT]

  • 03.20.2008 11:45 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
Any such feature would allow you to turn it off, yes.

Cool, thanks.

you don't get to complain about spam.
I don't complain about spam anyway. Does that mean i'm entitled to complain about anything else?

thumbs up/down sort stuff
Also awesome. Might make the files forum worth using again.

A lot of you focus on the problem of spam like it is caused by people not knowing the rules at all. That's silly - it is caused by people not caring what the rules are
Actually, i'm a firm believer in them not knowing/caring what the consequences are. That's why i think a couple dozen more harsh moderators would be overall a very good thing, but then i'm a bastard.

[Edited on 03.20.2008 11:47 AM PDT]

  • 03.20.2008 11:46 AM PDT

3 round bursts are always less accurate (when looking at the point of impact vs point of aim) than single shots. That is how it works with real burst fire weapons. The reason there is a burst is because it is counting on that inherent inaccuracy and spread to increase the possibility of a hit when aiming at moving targets in combat conditions.

Posted by: Achronos

Other things I'm considering are a thumbs up/down for entire threads (not individual posts), and allowing you to sort the forum by the positive/negative status THEN by last post date if you so choose. Also, allowing you to sort by post creation date instead of last post date (and making that the default sort for the file forums so bumping threads has no effect there).


Please dont do this. I dont want to go to B.net forum and find the "just created" posts that have no relevance to well...anything i may care about.

I agree with you that "bumping" threads can be a problem, but think of this Achronos: How will threads gain popularity if the only threads on the "main page" are brand new ones.

Thanks man.

  • 03.20.2008 11:47 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

You underestimate the reporting system. There are lots of controls to prevent against this. People submitting bad reports will find themselves quickly banned.

And, even if you still don't believe me - you would easily be able to switch off the report filter.

Anything can be abused, it is a matter of anticipating the attack vectors and placing controls to deal with such attacks.

Spam is best dealt with by providing a lot of tools for the victims of spam to deal with it themselves. For far too long, the moderators have been the only defense against spam on bungie.net. That defense is not sufficent for a population of this size. It is time we leverage the most powerful weapon we as a community have: our size. The community sees a spammer before the moderators will - but they don't have the tools to effectively deal with it. Until recently, they had to PM a moderator or just wait until it was noticed. Now they report it directly into a moderator queue. Why not allow them to automatically hide posts that have been sufficently reported (optionally)? How about being able to rate and sort threads according to that rate to push the stupid stuff away?

There are lots of things we can do to leverage the power of the size of the community instead of being beaten down with the size of the community. Literally - we can make the size of the community part of the solution instead of one of the major causes of the problem.

Posted by: TOM T 117
No. I do not think post's should be hidden even if they are reported a lot. f this were the case we know if people disagreed with the OP and reported the thread they would effectively make it vanish. Any such system will be abused no matter what people think.

  • 03.20.2008 11:52 AM PDT
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I agree with you that "bumping" threads can be a problem, but think of this Achronos: How will threads gain popularity if the only threads on the "main page" are brand new ones.

He only said he'd do that with the files forums. The other forums will presumable/hopefully still continue to operate like normal forums, as bumping is not a large problem there. You'll still have the option to sort by last post or by rating though, if you choose. Which is very, very nice.

  • 03.20.2008 11:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: Curchek
Posted by: Achronos

Other things I'm considering are a thumbs up/down for entire threads (not individual posts), and allowing you to sort the forum by the positive/negative status THEN by last post date if you so choose. Also, allowing you to sort by post creation date instead of last post date (and making that the default sort for the file forums so bumping threads has no effect there).


Please dont do this. I dont want to go to B.net forum and find the "just created" posts that have no relevance to well...anything i may care about.

I agree with you that "bumping" threads can be a problem, but think of this Achronos: How will threads gain popularity if the only threads on the "main page" are brand new ones.

Thanks man.


I see your point but as of now the file forums are completely unequal in every sense.

If you don't belong to AoH or SP or w/e the rest of them are, then you hardly even have a chance. This forces normal PPL to join these groups so they can get virtually "group bumped" back up to the top. - Screenshots forum btw.

Many of those threads have 100+ replies only because they belong to a certain group.

The "newer" method would give everyone the exact same chance in the files forums.

[Edited on 03.20.2008 11:54 AM PDT]

  • 03.20.2008 11:54 AM PDT

3 round bursts are always less accurate (when looking at the point of impact vs point of aim) than single shots. That is how it works with real burst fire weapons. The reason there is a burst is because it is counting on that inherent inaccuracy and spread to increase the possibility of a hit when aiming at moving targets in combat conditions.

Thanks for that clarification. I skipped over the part where it said "in the file forums"

Makes a lot of sense for over there.

  • 03.20.2008 11:56 AM PDT

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Posted by: Yoozel
I've got it! Let's just get rid of the Flood. No worries about hiding posts, etc... etc..!


bad idea


hrmph....

  • 03.20.2008 12:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: Yoozel
I've got it! Let's just get rid of the Flood. No worries about hiding posts, etc... etc..!


This idea wins.

  • 03.20.2008 12:06 PM PDT

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Posted by: Mr Mousetrap
Posted by: Yoozel
I've got it! Let's just get rid of the Flood. No worries about hiding posts, etc... etc..!


This idea wins.

  • 03.20.2008 12:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shishka
Everything will be gone long before me. When the first living thing was born, I was here, waiting. When the last living thing dies, my job is finished. I'll put the chairs on the tables, turn out the lights and lock the universe behind me when I leave.

Posted by: Yoozel
I've got it! Let's just get rid of the Flood. No worries about hiding posts, etc... etc..!
Yoozel, you know you love the Flood.....
Let's just stop making rash decisions here, lol.

  • 03.20.2008 1:16 PM PDT

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Posted by: Achronos
You underestimate the reporting system. There are lots of controls to prevent against this. People submitting bad reports will find themselves quickly banned.

And, even if you still don't believe me - you would easily be able to switch off the report filter.

Anything can be abused, it is a matter of anticipating the attack vectors and placing controls to deal with such attacks.

Spam is best dealt with by providing a lot of tools for the victims of spam to deal with it themselves. For far too long, the moderators have been the only defense against spam on bungie.net. That defense is not sufficent for a population of this size. It is time we leverage the most powerful weapon we as a community have: our size. The community sees a spammer before the moderators will - but they don't have the tools to effectively deal with it. Until recently, they had to PM a moderator or just wait until it was noticed. Now they report it directly into a moderator queue. Why not allow them to automatically hide posts that have been sufficently reported (optionally)? How about being able to rate and sort threads according to that rate to push the stupid stuff away?

There are lots of things we can do to leverage the power of the size of the community instead of being beaten down with the size of the community. Literally - we can make the size of the community part of the solution instead of one of the major causes of the problem.

So, what you're saying is that we take the community's weakness and turn it into its strength?

  • 03.20.2008 1:17 PM PDT

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