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Subject: Time Travel?

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

Poll: ?  [closed]
Possible:  39%
(11 Votes)
Impossible:  36%
(10 Votes)
Maybe in the distant future:  25%
(7 Votes)
Total Votes: 28

Do you think time travel is possible? Explain your answers.

  • 01.31.2005 1:58 PM PDT
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Finally! I get to give my theory. Let me copy it from my PM to opog.... be right back.

  • 01.31.2005 1:59 PM PDT
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It's scientifically (although still controversial) proven that it's possible, but just not in the conventional sense.

  • 01.31.2005 2:00 PM PDT
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Enjoy reading or writing sci-fi or fantasy? Come to New Horizons

[color=#00ff00]First off, this is more of a disproving of Temporal Theory, the widely accepted view of Time Travel. I think that it's wrong. Here's why: [/color]

First, I'll summarize what Temporal Theory states:

Short Version- You can't do something different when going back in time, because you've already gone back in time and done what you've done. (That's a horrible summary. Read the Long Version now.)

Long Version- Okay, I'm going to give you an example of Temporal Theory in a book. It's an obscure book, but nonetheless. It's called Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban(Yes, I still read them...). If you have read it or seen the movie, you already know of the time travel situation. Since I don't know if you have read it or not, I'll give you a brief description of what happened.

Harry and Hermione go to Hagrid's hut to console him and think of a way to save Buckbeak(which is a strange creature) from being executed. At one point during their conversation, a stone comes flying through the window, startling them. Another one flies through, and they look outside. They see a group of people coming towards the hut(If I remember correctly, it was Fudge, Dumbledore, and the executioner). Harry and Hermione quickly hurry out the back door and hide behind some large pumpkins. Hermione glances behind her back and thinks she sees something odd, but turns away. The four others come out of the hut while Harry and Hermione run away. They turn around just in time to see the executioner raise his scythe and bring it down(they didn't see what it came down on though).

Near the very end of the book, Harry and Hermione meet up with Dumbledore in the infirmary. He tells Hermione to use the time-hourglass-thing(I forgot the name, sorry). The hourglass takes them back to just before they arrive at Hagrid's hut. Before they went back in time, Dumbledore told them not to meet themselves in the past otherwise there would be horrible consequences. We will call the future Harry and Hermione nubmer 2, while the ones from the past are number 1 so we can keep track of them.

H&H1 enter the hut, while H&H2 go hide behind the same pumkins that they did in their past. Harry(2) then goes and Hermione(2) notices that the executioner and the two others are coming down the pathway, but H&H1 haven't left the hut yet. She needs to warn them. Hermione(2) picks up two rocks from the ground and throws them through the window(see where this is going?). As soon as H&H1 come out the back door, H&H2 run into the woods. Hermione(1) catches a glimpse of Herm(2), just before Herm(2) hides behind a tree. At this point, H&H(1) run away. Dumbledore, Fudge, and the Executioner come outside to look at Buckbeak. They then go back inside for a minute. Harry(2) goes and frees Buckbeak and lures him into the woods. The four others come out of the hut and find Buckbeak missing. Of course they are upset(except for Hagrid and Dumbledore). At this point, H&H1 have reached the top of the hill and they turn around. In anger, the executioner raises his scythe and brings it down upon a pumpkin.

This is probably the best example of Temporal Theory that I've seen yet. Well, maybe Back to the Future was better, but it wasn't as obvious as this. So, I didn't pick that as my example. If I didn't explain Temporal Theory well then please say so and I'll get my friend Phil to explain it. Now, on to why Temporal Theory is so horribly wrong.

Instead of using the Harry Potter example to explain my idea, I'll use a classic example: Going back in time and killing your mom so that you were never born. According to Temporal Theory, it would be impossible to do so. TT says that you would have never have been born, and therefor would never have been able to go back in time to begin with. I'm saying that's not true. Here's why.

Suppose that you were born in 1990. In 2005, you decide to go back to 1985 and kill your mom. Up until 2005, everything has happened one way. You've grown up with your mom and have fun. Then when you go back in time, you leave that part of the timeline and back to an earlier part. Take a growing string to represent the timeline and all the threads are separate events. One point on the timeline is 1985, one is 1990, and so on. At the 2005 point, one thread(the series of events that defines you), gets cut and moved back to 1985. The part that would keep growing is now growing from 1985. At that point, everything that came after that exact moment in time is cut off from the string and thrown away. This happens because just by being there, you've changed an event in the timeline, and a completely new series of events is coming into existence. Think of it like the Action/Reaction principle(by Newton?). Your action of emerging in 1985 didn't originally happen. Now that it has, new reactions must take the place of whatever had been there before. Here's where people ask: "But by killing your mom, you would have died!" Nope. You have to remember that your thread was cut from the string in 2005 and MOVED to 1985. You are absolutely unaffected by the gigantic cut in the string you made. There is no way to travel into the future once you travel into the past because the series of events is still unfolding and there can't be a reaction before an action.

So that's my whole idea on Temporal Theory. I find it impossible. You can't have gone back in time before you even decided to! I love Newtonian Physics. Most say that they conflict with Einsteinian Physics at times. I say that they mesh together if you look at them correctly. If all this seemed more like rambling, and you didn't get what I was saying, tell me and I'll spend a day typing it up and posting it in a more coherent manner. So... what did you think?

[color=#00ff00]PS. Yes, I'm sorry I use Harry Potter because it is a simple example of Temporal Theory. [/color]

  • 01.31.2005 2:02 PM PDT
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DMUKYA
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Interested in the mysteries within all of Bungie's games? Check out Theory of Unification
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Enjoy reading or writing sci-fi or fantasy? Come to New Horizons

So to summarize my thoughts: You can travel to the past, but you're stuck there, and you can't go to the future.

  • 01.31.2005 2:04 PM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

Wow.

  • 01.31.2005 2:05 PM PDT
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Theoritcally possible. If certain theories are true, such as Relativity (pretty much yea) and Super String Theory (possibly), then yes. Both are rather difficult. In one instance, you swing one end of a wormhole around the universe at or near the speed of light. The faster an object moves, the faster it moves into the future (we do have several time travelers, certain astronauts that have gone pretty fast. They moved a very small fraction of a second into the future). This will cause a time gap, letting you go back in time or forward into time.

For string theory, posistion a space ship at a place where it can be between two cosmic strings that will pass by each other traveling in opposite but parallel directions. The disruption cause by these strings will make the ship travel backwards into time. Except it is a one way trip.

I remember all of this from a Popular Science magazine, maybe I will find it sometime and get some quotes.

Edit: After reading the above post on Temporal Theory, I would like to point out it was also touched upon in the article. The universe prevents paradoxes.

[Edited on 1/31/2005 2:08:55 PM]

  • 01.31.2005 2:06 PM PDT
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Ender, you're a genius.

I was gonna say time travel was possible, just extremely limited. You can't go forward into the future, and you can't come back to the present after you've gone into the past.

  • 01.31.2005 2:08 PM PDT
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of course you can time travel al you need is the time crystals.

  • 01.31.2005 4:11 PM PDT
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String theory..I watched a 3 hour show on public TV about that. doesn't it involve like 12 dimensions and these little vibrating strings resonating in different frequencies that make of everything? they said that is the sun was the nucles of an atom, a tree on earth would the size of one of those strings...they're tiny :o

  • 01.31.2005 4:18 PM PDT
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I just told you that its possible you just have to find the damn time crystals!!!!

  • 01.31.2005 4:20 PM PDT
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Hmm! (a little laugh) I like to think think that it's possible, but humans have no possible idea what it is or how it can be done.

  • 01.31.2005 4:29 PM PDT
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I think that if you go back in time you have just offset everything. For one thing, there will be an infinite number of you because at that one point in the future your other self will do the same thing you did...why? Because no one stopped you which means you want stop yourself. And if you die in the past, how are you supposed to be born again to do it all over? With the same name and the same genes, it would be like a never ending story of you being born again and dying. It isn't as well thought out as i think but...I don't think it is possible as it will be a neverending loop hole of you going back in time and dying.

  • 01.31.2005 4:30 PM PDT
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Time travel would prove a disaster. Every action we make, every choice we make, has a consequence, and indirectly effects countless other people. So in short, if I went back in time a few years earlier and decided to not befriend Jack (just a name), I could in turn end up destroying all of humanity.

  • 01.31.2005 4:41 PM PDT

Posted by: Ender
[color=#00ff00]First off, this is more of a disproving of Temporal Theory, the widely accepted view of Time Travel. I think that it's wrong. Here's why: [/color]

First, I'll summarize what Temporal Theory states:

Short Version- You can't do something different when going back in time, because you've already gone back in time and done what you've done. (That's a horrible summary. Read the Long Version now.)

Long Version- Okay, I'm going to give you an example of Temporal Theory in a book. It's an obscure book, but nonetheless. It's called Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban(Yes, I still read them...). If you have read it or seen the movie, you already know of the time travel situation. Since I don't know if you have read it or not, I'll give you a brief description of what happened.

Harry and Hermione go to Hagrid's hut to console him and think of a way to save Buckbeak(which is a strange creature) from being executed. At one point during their conversation, a stone comes flying through the window, startling them. Another one flies through, and they look outside. They see a group of people coming towards the hut(If I remember correctly, it was Fudge, Dumbledore, and the executioner). Harry and Hermione quickly hurry out the back door and hide behind some large pumpkins. Hermione glances behind her back and thinks she sees something odd, but turns away. The four others come out of the hut while Harry and Hermione run away. They turn around just in time to see the executioner raise his scythe and bring it down(they didn't see what it came down on though).

Near the very end of the book, Harry and Hermione meet up with Dumbledore in the infirmary. He tells Hermione to use the time-hourglass-thing(I forgot the name, sorry). The hourglass takes them back to just before they arrive at Hagrid's hut. Before they went back in time, Dumbledore told them not to meet themselves in the past otherwise there would be horrible consequences. We will call the future Harry and Hermione nubmer 2, while the ones from the past are number 1 so we can keep track of them.

H&H1 enter the hut, while H&H2 go hide behind the same pumkins that they did in their past. Harry(2) then goes and Hermione(2) notices that the executioner and the two others are coming down the pathway, but H&H1 haven't left the hut yet. She needs to warn them. Hermione(2) picks up two rocks from the ground and throws them through the window(see where this is going?). As soon as H&H1 come out the back door, H&H2 run into the woods. Hermione(1) catches a glimpse of Herm(2), just before Herm(2) hides behind a tree. At this point, H&H(1) run away. Dumbledore, Fudge, and the Executioner come outside to look at Buckbeak. They then go back inside for a minute. Harry(2) goes and frees Buckbeak and lures him into the woods. The four others come out of the hut and find Buckbeak missing. Of course they are upset(except for Hagrid and Dumbledore). At this point, H&H1 have reached the top of the hill and they turn around. In anger, the executioner raises his scythe and brings it down upon a pumpkin.

This is probably the best example of Temporal Theory that I've seen yet. Well, maybe Back to the Future was better, but it wasn't as obvious as this. So, I didn't pick that as my example. If I didn't explain Temporal Theory well then please say so and I'll get my friend Phil to explain it. Now, on to why Temporal Theory is so horribly wrong.

Instead of using the Harry Potter example to explain my idea, I'll use a classic example: Going back in time and killing your mom so that you were never born. According to Temporal Theory, it would be impossible to do so. TT says that you would have never have been born, and therefor would never have been able to go back in time to begin with. I'm saying that's not true. Here's why.

Suppose that you were born in 1990. In 2005, you decide to go back to 1985 and kill your mom. Up until 2005, everything has happened one way. You've grown up with your mom and have fun. Then when you go back in time, you leave that part of the timeline and back to an earlier part. Take a growing string to represent the timeline and all the threads are separate events. One point on the timeline is 1985, one is 1990, and so on. At the 2005 point, one thread(the series of events that defines you), gets cut and moved back to 1985. The part that would keep growing is now growing from 1985. At that point, everything that came after that exact moment in time is cut off from the string and thrown away. This happens because just by being there, you've changed an event in the timeline, and a completely new series of events is coming into existence. Think of it like the Action/Reaction principle(by Newton?). Your action of emerging in 1985 didn't originally happen. Now that it has, new reactions must take the place of whatever had been there before. Here's where people ask: "But by killing your mom, you would have died!" Nope. You have to remember that your thread was cut from the string in 2005 and MOVED to 1985. You are absolutely unaffected by the gigantic cut in the string you made. There is no way to travel into the future once you travel into the past because the series of events is still unfolding and there can't be a reaction before an action.

So that's my whole idea on Temporal Theory. I find it impossible. You can't have gone back in time before you even decided to! I love Newtonian Physics. Most say that they conflict with Einsteinian Physics at times. I say that they mesh together if you look at them correctly. If all this seemed more like rambling, and you didn't get what I was saying, tell me and I'll spend a day typing it up and posting it in a more coherent manner. So... what did you think?

[color=#00ff00]PS. Yes, I'm sorry I use Harry Potter because it is a simple example of Temporal Theory. [/color]




were u like bored or sumthin when u wrote this or was it for skool?

  • 01.31.2005 4:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Kingcream
Time travel would prove a disaster. Every action we make, every choice we make, has a consequence, and indirectly effects countless other people. So in short, if I went back in time a few years earlier and decided to not befriend Jack (just a name), I could in turn end up destroying all of humanity.

I don't think he is talking about being able to actually revert your self and body back through time to make up some mistakes, I think he is just talking about going back in time as you are and looking at the past.

  • 01.31.2005 4:44 PM PDT

Moderator Notice: This user has been blacklisted from this forum. Until the user is removed from the blacklist, all posts this user has made have been hidden, and all topics created by this user have been censored.

So you have to be bored to come up with ideas?

EDIT:This is for Spartan87's post.

[Edited on 1/31/2005 4:57:29 PM]

  • 01.31.2005 4:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ares823
Theoritcally possible. If certain theories are true, such as Relativity (pretty much yea) and Super String Theory (possibly), then yes. Both are rather difficult. In one instance, you swing one end of a wormhole around the universe at or near the speed of light. The faster an object moves, the faster it moves into the future (we do have several time travelers, certain astronauts that have gone pretty fast. They moved a very small fraction of a second into the future). This will cause a time gap, letting you go back in time or forward into time.

For string theory, posistion a space ship at a place where it can be between two cosmic strings that will pass by each other traveling in opposite but parallel directions. The disruption cause by these strings will make the ship travel backwards into time. Except it is a one way trip.

I remember all of this from a Popular Science magazine, maybe I will find it sometime and get some quotes.

Edit: After reading the above post on Temporal Theory, I would like to point out it was also touched upon in the article. The universe prevents paradoxes.


Your first bit of info about where you say "The faster an object moves, the faster it moves into the future" is not an example of time travel. That is time dilation. It seems as though the traveler has gone into the future, but that is not what happens. Relativity says that "The closer to the speed of light an object reaches, the slower it travels in time, relatively." Meaning the travler may experience a few weeks of travel, while in reality, decades have passed. If you want a good example, read the Ender's Game series.

  • 01.31.2005 4:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Spartan87
Posted by: Ender
[color=#00ff00]First off, this is more of a disproving of Temporal Theory, the widely accepted view of Time Travel. I think that it's wrong. Here's why: [/color]

First, I'll summarize what Temporal Theory states:

Short Version- You can't do something different when going back in time, because you've already gone back in time and done what you've done. (That's a horrible summary. Read the Long Version now.)

Long Version- Okay, I'm going to give you an example of Temporal Theory in a book. It's an obscure book, but nonetheless. It's called Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban(Yes, I still read them...). If you have read it or seen the movie, you already know of the time travel situation. Since I don't know if you have read it or not, I'll give you a brief description of what happened.

Harry and Hermione go to Hagrid's hut to console him and think of a way to save Buckbeak(which is a strange creature) from being executed. At one point during their conversation, a stone comes flying through the window, startling them. Another one flies through, and they look outside. They see a group of people coming towards the hut(If I remember correctly, it was Fudge, Dumbledore, and the executioner). Harry and Hermione quickly hurry out the back door and hide behind some large pumpkins. Hermione glances behind her back and thinks she sees something odd, but turns away. The four others come out of the hut while Harry and Hermione run away. They turn around just in time to see the executioner raise his scythe and bring it down(they didn't see what it came down on though).

Near the very end of the book, Harry and Hermione meet up with Dumbledore in the infirmary. He tells Hermione to use the time-hourglass-thing(I forgot the name, sorry). The hourglass takes them back to just before they arrive at Hagrid's hut. Before they went back in time, Dumbledore told them not to meet themselves in the past otherwise there would be horrible consequences. We will call the future Harry and Hermione nubmer 2, while the ones from the past are number 1 so we can keep track of them.

H&H1 enter the hut, while H&H2 go hide behind the same pumkins that they did in their past. Harry(2) then goes and Hermione(2) notices that the executioner and the two others are coming down the pathway, but H&H1 haven't left the hut yet. She needs to warn them. Hermione(2) picks up two rocks from the ground and throws them through the window(see where this is going?). As soon as H&H1 come out the back door, H&H2 run into the woods. Hermione(1) catches a glimpse of Herm(2), just before Herm(2) hides behind a tree. At this point, H&H(1) run away. Dumbledore, Fudge, and the Executioner come outside to look at Buckbeak. They then go back inside for a minute. Harry(2) goes and frees Buckbeak and lures him into the woods. The four others come out of the hut and find Buckbeak missing. Of course they are upset(except for Hagrid and Dumbledore). At this point, H&H1 have reached the top of the hill and they turn around. In anger, the executioner raises his scythe and brings it down upon a pumpkin.

This is probably the best example of Temporal Theory that I've seen yet. Well, maybe Back to the Future was better, but it wasn't as obvious as this. So, I didn't pick that as my example. If I didn't explain Temporal Theory well then please say so and I'll get my friend Phil to explain it. Now, on to why Temporal Theory is so horribly wrong.

Instead of using the Harry Potter example to explain my idea, I'll use a classic example: Going back in time and killing your mom so that you were never born. According to Temporal Theory, it would be impossible to do so. TT says that you would have never have been born, and therefor would never have been able to go back in time to begin with. I'm saying that's not true. Here's why.

Suppose that you were born in 1990. In 2005, you decide to go back to 1985 and kill your mom. Up until 2005, everything has happened one way. You've grown up with your mom and have fun. Then when you go back in time, you leave that part of the timeline and back to an earlier part. Take a growing string to represent the timeline and all the threads are separate events. One point on the timeline is 1985, one is 1990, and so on. At the 2005 point, one thread(the series of events that defines you), gets cut and moved back to 1985. The part that would keep growing is now growing from 1985. At that point, everything that came after that exact moment in time is cut off from the string and thrown away. This happens because just by being there, you've changed an event in the timeline, and a completely new series of events is coming into existence. Think of it like the Action/Reaction principle(by Newton?). Your action of emerging in 1985 didn't originally happen. Now that it has, new reactions must take the place of whatever had been there before. Here's where people ask: "But by killing your mom, you would have died!" Nope. You have to remember that your thread was cut from the string in 2005 and MOVED to 1985. You are absolutely unaffected by the gigantic cut in the string you made. There is no way to travel into the future once you travel into the past because the series of events is still unfolding and there can't be a reaction before an action.

So that's my whole idea on Temporal Theory. I find it impossible. You can't have gone back in time before you even decided to! I love Newtonian Physics. Most say that they conflict with Einsteinian Physics at times. I say that they mesh together if you look at them correctly. If all this seemed more like rambling, and you didn't get what I was saying, tell me and I'll spend a day typing it up and posting it in a more coherent manner. So... what did you think?

[color=#00ff00]PS. Yes, I'm sorry I use Harry Potter because it is a simple example of Temporal Theory. [/color]




were u like bored or sumthin when u wrote this or was it for skool?

Don't make fun of him for having a well thought out theory. He is a member of Eagle's flipping clan for crying out loud! They are the masters of theories of any length.

  • 01.31.2005 4:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: Halifax
I think that if you go back in time you have just offset everything. For one thing, there will be an infinite number of you because at that one point in the future your other self will do the same thing you did...why? Because no one stopped you which means you want stop yourself. And if you die in the past, how are you supposed to be born again to do it all over? With the same name and the same genes, it would be like a never ending story of you being born again and dying. It isn't as well thought out as i think but...I don't think it is possible as it will be a neverending loop hole of you going back in time and dying.

Read my explanation.

  • 01.31.2005 4:50 PM PDT
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Time is an illusion.

  • 01.31.2005 4:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ender
Posted by: Halifax
I think that if you go back in time you have just offset everything. For one thing, there will be an infinite number of you because at that one point in the future your other self will do the same thing you did...why? Because no one stopped you which means you want stop yourself. And if you die in the past, how are you supposed to be born again to do it all over? With the same name and the same genes, it would be like a never ending story of you being born again and dying. It isn't as well thought out as i think but...I don't think it is possible as it will be a neverending loop hole of you going back in time and dying.

Read my explanation.

Oh...now I feel like a fool.

  • 01.31.2005 4:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: ðcherryð
Time is an illusion.

I actually thought about that for an entire study hall at school. I forgot to do my math homework, and never thought about it again. [/joking] Although, I did spend the period working on disproving Temporal Theory. Yes, that's basically when I thought all of this up.

  • 01.31.2005 4:53 PM PDT
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I'm a man with a fork in a world of soup.

Posted by: ðcherryð
Time is an illusion.


You mean time is relative.

  • 01.31.2005 4:54 PM PDT
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yes, welll sorta..

It's imposible to go back in time, but possible to go into the future by slowing your molecules without freezing yourself. Since there is no time in reality the past doesn't exist, but making everything go by fast by slowing your molecules can send you into the future faster than we all are now.

[Edited on 1/31/2005 4:57:21 PM]

  • 01.31.2005 4:55 PM PDT

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