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  • Subject: Mythic Skull
Subject: Mythic Skull
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Do you think that the mythic skull makes enemies tougher? Could the skull weaken weapon damage instead? Would this not be more consistent with the effect of weakening attacks when playing with a handicap?

  • 04.17.2008 8:26 PM PDT

Posted by: elite n00b
Do you think that the mythic skull makes enemies tougher? Could the skull weaken weapon damage instead? Would this not be more consistent with the effect of weakening attacks when playing with a handicap?
We did some tests at HIH that involved this question. The damage taken by all objects was exactly the same with or without Mythic. This told us the firepower of the weapon remained the same. The shields did not seem to be affected by Mythic but it takes more shots to kill the AI (after shields), so that was our guess, stronger enemies.

I forgot to add that my personal opinion was also based on the melee. It had to be easier to program all AI to an upgrade (Mythic) in power rather than have MC or Arbiter reduce power in weapons and melee. The AI would have still had to be programmed to recieve less damage for each blow/shot. This way they didn't have to change the main characters at all and in coop that would be a lot less work. I'm talking over my head on this last part.




[Edited on 04.17.2008 11:21 PM PDT]

  • 04.17.2008 10:58 PM PDT
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ARBITER, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT BUTTER!!! WORT WORT WORT.

A guy at HIH statistically tested and found that it gave the enemies 3x the health. Not the shields, but health. I'd say it makes them a little smarter too.

Of course in Halo 3, it only adds twice the health.. it's a "balancing" thing haha

[Edited on 04.18.2008 11:42 AM PDT]

  • 04.18.2008 11:41 AM PDT
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"The damage taken by all objects was exactly the same with or without Mythic."

What objects do you mean specifically?


"It had to be easier to program all AI to an upgrade (Mythic) in power rather than have MC or Arbiter reduce power in weapons and melee."

Why, if the code existed to reduce weapon strength (i.e. handicap in multiplayer) then why not reuse the code?

  • 04.20.2008 1:05 PM PDT
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ARBITER, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT BUTTER!!! WORT WORT WORT.

To the first, think of each shot fired. The potency of each round is unchanged.. meaning the same damage is dealt by all guns (for each difficulty setting of course, (thinking of the AI)).

If you have sputnik and black eye on, take on Cairo and punch the boxes into the walls. You can rebuild your shields, into overshields, by punching the boxes. When the box hits you and Mythic is activated, the box will still do the same damage when it hits you. Keep in mind though, that trick is also an easy way to get killed.

As for the latter... maybe that's why Bungie didn't finish the game. They were too worried about the mythic skull.

  • 04.20.2008 1:27 PM PDT
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On easy, it takes six body shots to kill a marine. If the mythic skull makes enemies tougher, then when the marines become your enemy (i.e. they start shooting at you) then it should take more shots to kill them.

A mixture of results occurs: on easy with the mythic skull active, the marines take twelve body shots before death. This result seems to support the theory that the bullets did less damage (i.e. consistent with a moderate handicap). However, after the marines turn to enemies, in fact, it takes more shots to kill them (sixteen shots on easy and maybe twenty-four shots on legendary). This result supports the theory that the mythic skull makes enemies tougher.

So maybe both theories were correct: a) half damage (e.g. with the battle rifle) and b) tougher enemies.

  • 04.20.2008 3:59 PM PDT

Posted by: elite n00b
On easy, it takes six body shots to kill a marine. If the mythic skull makes enemies tougher, then when the marines become your enemy (i.e. they start shooting at you) then it should take more shots to kill them.

A mixture of results occurs: on easy with the mythic skull active, the marines take twelve body shots before death. This result seems to support the theory that the bullets did less damage (i.e. consistent with a moderate handicap). However, after the marines turn to enemies, in fact, it takes more shots to kill them (sixteen shots on easy and maybe twenty-four shots on legendary). This result supports the theory that the mythic skull makes enemies tougher.

So maybe both theories were correct: a) half damage (e.g. with the battle rifle) and b) tougher enemies.
You asked about objects earlier. Any object that can be destroyed will give you BE health, as long as a sword is not used in the melee. In SP I use Ghosts to get my health up, especially in Legendary-Mythic and I look for objects along the way to destroy for health.

I have never been certain that one can count the Marines' damage inflicted by MC in any experiments. For combat, maybe Bungie didn't worry about damage variables because we weren't supposed to kill allies. We can shoot them if we want but it had nothing to do with winning campaign.

However, the damage that the Marines take goes up the same as the enemies because they fight each other and the Marines in Legendary and Mythic last a lot longer. I'm not certain about Mythic in this last statement.

I have only a guess on the 'easier' programming thing. For every shot that hits an enemy I would think two things have to happen. Mc/Arbiter has to have the programming to shoot (whatever the power) and the enemy has to be programmed to receive normal damage. If, mind you I'm guessing, Bungie just gave MC/Arbiter more power in the shot the AI would still have to be change to a 'more damage sustained' mode.

Since there are hundreds of enemies encountered during a full game it seems to me that it would be easier to program all the AI for the different variables of damage (assuming it has to be done anyway) and leave MC alone. They would have to have changed all the damage on all objects that can be destroyed as well so it seems to me they would program the AI for all variables and the interaction of MC vs AI would be a little less complicated.








[Edited on 04.20.2008 5:56 PM PDT]

  • 04.20.2008 5:48 PM PDT
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Props to the folks above who cite actual testing.
But does Mythic setting improve AI... AI ?
My limited H-2 Mythic experience recalls that as "no."

In H-3, it actually seems to.
Enemies man Marine gun emplacements, return to battle when displaced, and dodge attacks more fervently than on lower difficulty settings.
Are enemies actually smarter in H-2 with Mythic enabled ?



  • 04.20.2008 6:23 PM PDT

Posted by: msadlon
Props to the folks above who cite actual testing.
But does Mythic setting improve AI... AI ?
My limited H-2 Mythic experience recalls that as "no."

In H-3, it actually seems to.
Enemies man Marine gun emplacements, return to battle when displaced, and dodge attacks more fervently than on lower difficulty settings.
Are enemies actually smarter in H-2 with Mythic enabled ?



I've wondered about this. I've never set up tests to see if AI is smarter. With no reason to back it up, I think the enemies are smarter in H2, at least in Legendary but I'm not sure about Mythic. In Legendary the enemies are so good that turning on Mythic doesn't make much difference (for me), it's always soooo hard. But I don't know for sure.



  • 04.20.2008 6:36 PM PDT
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ARBITER, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT BUTTER!!! WORT WORT WORT.

I don't know for sure either. I know the unnamed skull does.. but does mythic.. it's hard for me to say. Usually I play with all of them on or just sputnik/grunt birthday party/envy/blind.

It seemed to me that playing with mythic on easy made the AI more like playing on normal... but my strongest support that it has a small effect is that on easy, I was hearing dialogue from heroic marines, not marines from easy.

I don't know either, bottom line.

  • 04.21.2008 9:01 AM PDT
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"You asked about objects earlier. Any [destroyable object] will [increase] BE health, [except in the case of sword melee].”

Thank you for clearing that up. That makes sense.

Another test that vanquishes any doubts: In cooperative, it takes the same amount of hits to kill the master chief (i.e. second player) regardless of whether the mythic skull is active or not. If the weapons did less damage, it would take more hits for player one to kill player two and vice versa. In recent tests, it took five headshots from a battle rifle to end the life of player two when the mythic scull was both active and inactive. This indicates that the mythic skull makes non-player characters tougher. It does not make weapons do less damage.

  • 04.21.2008 10:52 AM PDT
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ARBITER, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT BUTTER!!! WORT WORT WORT.

Correct.

  • 04.24.2008 9:54 AM PDT

Posted by: WACCSMD
Usually I play with all of them on or just sputnik/grunt birthday party/envy/blind.
All skulls activated is tough duty, especially Armory, Mythic, BE and Assassins.

When playing for kicks I add catch to your skull list. Also, more people should play with Blind. It makes you a better player, in any FPS game, imo.

Heh, thinking of playing with all skulls reminded me of the first time I stepped into the last fight room in Gravemind. They didn't fight each other unless I injured someone (Assassins) but they all came after me (Armory) and I couldn't hide. Plus, you have to play in Legendary (just because) and 3x health (Mythic) over that was just too much. Toss in the other negative skulls (like BE) and it's no wonder I never made it out of there alive.

[Edited on 04.24.2008 1:00 PM PDT]

  • 04.24.2008 12:36 PM PDT
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ARBITER, I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT BUTTER!!! WORT WORT WORT.

I prefer using Blind... makes sniping sooooo much easier having none of that junk in your view. Just makes the whole game cooler.

Mythic, unnamed, and easy difficulty ftw.

  • 04.24.2008 11:21 PM PDT