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Subject: WHY DO YOU HESITATE TO DO WHAT YOU'VE ALREDY DONE
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wouldnt the forth halo ring be in Halo4?

  • 06.22.2004 8:00 PM PDT
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Can you stop spamming allready!

Halo was activated 100.000 Local years ago. So in theory, Halo could have fired between 10.000 to 1.000.000 earth years ago, depending on how long a year "on" Threshold takes.

  • 06.23.2004 4:08 AM PDT
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http://nikon.bungie.org/misc/dialogue/monitor/pleasestopbeing uman.mp3

use this to hear what i mean. he does say it sometimes but it is rare.
no-one knows who the first reclaimer was

  • 06.23.2004 4:14 AM PDT
Subject: Rampant Speculation....ness. ;-)
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Posted by: Zamamee
Guilty Spark already knows about humans because if you shoot him in the Library he sometimes yells "stop being so human!" but this could just be a random line thing.

I am glad to see that some of them survived to reproduce. He is NOT referring to the flood, but rather to the Forerunner, because he is talking about the MC. (at least thats what I think)

Also Solid Snake i'm afraid your wrong, when he states some of them survived to reproduce he is referring to the Flood because if you put his full statement together it goes,
"This installation was specifically built to study and contain the Flood, thier survival as a race was dependant on it. I am grateful to see that some of them survived to reproduce."
Read it through, its obvious GS is reffering to the flood not you as a possible forerunner.
Sorry to burst your bubble, solid snake.


GS has obviously met some humans before, most likely marines or crew from the PoA that weren't able to regroup or got lost or something...of course this would also explain why you find marine corpses scattered around in some levels.

When GS says:
"This installation was specifically built to study and contain the Flood, thier survival as a race was dependant on it. I am grateful to see that some of them survived to reproduce."

I disagree with Zamamee on this. I think he was talking to MC about the humans. Think of Halo as a box. Now, because the Flood was probably on the loose destroying the Forerunners, they (the Forerunners) put the Flood into that box and shut the lid closed. Perhaps the Flood encountered the Forerunners in the same way the Covenant first encountered the humans? (Total annihilation? The planet Harvest comes to mind.) It would explain why they wanted to study them, if they didn't know anything about their enemy; which is similiar...VERY similiar to the ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) researching/ studying Covenant tech, etc. (sorry guys, gotta read the books to know what I mean).

ALSO, GS would be grateful that his creators, the Forerunner, would have survived to recover over the years from whatever happened during the Forerunners' era. How else would GS recognize MC as "reclaimer"? Any other way doesn't make sense. So Zamamee, even though you could be right, the clues and the bits of information tend toward this theory instead. Sorry.

PS- Halo Story Page Click the link for the Halo story page. I got all my info here, it's a good read. :-) Any thoughts?

[Edited on 6/23/2004 5:34:52 AM]

  • 06.23.2004 5:19 AM PDT
Subject: WHY DO YOU HESITATEW TO DO WHAT YOU'VE ALREDY DONE
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uh... yeah, all that plus, in The Flood, there was another human that GS met and talked about; a diffrent human he called reclaimer for a short period of time. however this person was found dead and you never got to meet him

  • 06.23.2004 7:44 AM PDT
Subject: WHY DO YOU HESITATE TO DO WHAT YOU'VE ALREDY DONE
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Posted by: SizzableSSonic
hey lam,wonder if cortana was will go crazy eventialy?

no, cortana will not even have a chance to go crazy. AI's like her only have a 7 year life span. she will remain quite sane throughout her life

  • 06.23.2004 7:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: Iamwhie
Posted by: SizzableSSonic
hey lam,wonder if cortana was will go crazy eventialy?

no, cortana will not even have a chance to go crazy. AI's like her only have a 7 year life span. she will remain quite sane throughout her life


That is assuming Cortana remained a simple AI held in common restraints as a ship AI, etc, etc. Once you put her into the forerunner computer systems, which is effectively a global net, all bets are off. Its quite obvious the power changed her somehow, although the book "First Strike" seems to play it down a lot.


In general, Rampancy is accelerated by outside stimuli.  [. . .] The more a Rampant AI is harassed or threatened, the more rapidly it becomes dangerous. [. . .] In all of these cases, the Rampant was never brought under control.  Traxus IV is the most notable example.  He was finally dealt with by a complete shutdown of his host net.
***
Theoretically, testing Rampancy should be easily accomplished in the laboratory, but in fact it has never successfully been attempted.  The confinement of the laboratory makes it impossible for the developing Rampant AI to survive.  As the growing recursive programs expand with exponential vivacity, any limitation negatively hampers growth.  Since Rampant AIs need a planetary sized network of computers in order to grow, it is not feasible to expect anyone to sacrifice a world-web just to test a theory.
***
In the two hundred and fifty years since Rampancy first appeared in the Earth-net, the stable Rampant AI, the 'Holy Grail' of cybertonics, has never come close to fruition. Since no Rampant has ever been controlled or turned to any useful purpose, it is the opinion of this writer and of the majority of the Cybertonic community that all rampant AIs are a danger to Cyberlife, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Thrashedness. (James B. Miller, 2320, "Life and Death of Intelligence") - http://marathon.bungie.org/story/counterattack.html Defend THIS! Term 2


Could Cortana be or become a stable Rampant AI? Guess we'll have to wait till Nov. 9 to find out.

  • 06.23.2004 9:09 AM PDT
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I don't think the A.I.s in Halo are "crazy".....yet. And the word
is rampant. 343 GS was simply following procedure in my
opinion. Also, if past Bungie lore runs through Halo, 343 would
need a planetary sized network of computers to grow, and I dont
think that floating ball would cut it. He is also denied access to
the core of the Halo, possibly because the Forerunner knew
of the risks involved. To him, it's all routine. Remember, he has
seen the Forerunner before and is well aware of their/its abilities.
Our galaxy may be a speck to them, and a flood outbreak
could be routine to them, although a difficult moral decision.
The only problem is that the Forerunner seem/s absent. Normal
A.I.s are not free, they are told what to do and when to do it.
Cortana is a free thinking A.I., so her decisions are her own.
This is both a good and possibly bad thing for us. Also, carrying
the index is no doubt a huge work load. I wonder what kind of
damage all that info would cause?
Ok, back to the subject of the thread.
I think that the simplest answer would be that 343 views the
Cheif as a predictable meatbag with modifications, and
compares him to whoever set off the ring before him. On the
other hand, 343 seems to have a connection with the Chief,
and talks to him specfically about what he did.

P.S. I still wonder about 343 however. The steps that he put
you through to get the index were ridiculous, and he seems
very relaxed, even amused. I think the matter of 343's
rampancy could go either way.

edit: looks like Jager beat me to explaining rampancy.
I've wondered myself if Cortana is a stable rampant
A.I., but I think that she could still be corrupted by a desire
for power, glory, or immortality. Immortality seems to be
popular with A.I.s in Bungie stories.


[Edited on 6/23/2004 9:29:10 AM]

  • 06.23.2004 9:25 AM PDT
Subject: Rampant Speculation....ness. ;-)
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Firstly, Lunous, we do not know that the other installtions were built to 'study and contain the flood,' we only know this is true for Installation 04. I would also like people to take note that 343 Guilty Spark never called Installation 04 HALO (at least not to my recollection.)

Now, B4dCyborg, that is a very good point, and a rather interesting way to look at that line.

"This installation was specifically built to study and contain the Flood, thier survival as a race was dependant on it. I am grateful to see that some of them survived to reproduce."

When he says this, he could be saying the Forerunners' survival as a race was dependant upon being able to contain and study the Flood, and that he is greatful to see that some of the Forerunners were able to survive to reproduce. I of course, did not think of it in this way until B4dCyborg's post. Of course, you know one could also speculate from this that the installation was built to study the Flood and then the weapons systems were built in to combat the flood the only effective way the Forerunners could find: starve them to death.

It is all quite interesting, ::smiles:: but all speculation as well.

If Humans do turn out to be Forerunners, I would actaully be a little disappointed at you busy bodys for spioling it for me!!!! ~_^

  • 06.23.2004 10:47 AM PDT
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In the halo book, The Flood, GS notices a fallen marine who he says to the MC was the last Reclaimer. It seems that GS assigns the term Reclaimer to the one helping him activate halos control.

People seem to think that the Flood are mindless parasites.

from the Library:
"The Flood are already hard at work repairing your vessel. Its parasitic nature belies the Flood's intelligence. "

"Your environment suit should serve you well when the Flood begins to alter the atmosphere. You are a good planner. "

If the Flood alter the atmosphere would that make them no longer parasitic, is that the purpose of the atmosphere conversion? Also, what if after the flood aren't parasitic they become something else. What if the flood are some kind of altered Forerunner, and releasing the flood actually recreates the Forerunners. hmmm?

  • 06.23.2004 11:23 AM PDT
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Interpretation of this line:

"This installation was specifically built to study and contain the Flood, thier survival as a race was dependant on it. I am grateful to see that some of them survived to reproduce."

Halo was built to study and contain the Flood. The survival of the Forerunners depended on it. I am grateful to see that some of the Flood survived to reproduce.

Somehow the flood and Forerunners are related. Are they also somehow one in the same?

  • 06.23.2004 11:26 AM PDT
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Posted by: ggivnish
Interpretation of this line:

"This installation was specifically built to study and contain the Flood, thier survival as a race was dependant on it. I am grateful to see that some of them survived to reproduce."

Halo was built to study and contain the Flood. The survival of the Forerunners depended on it. I am grateful to see that some of the Flood survived to reproduce.

Somehow the flood and Forerunners are related. Are they also somehow one in the same?


Their survial as a race does lead to implications of the forerunner, which could be the humans as stated previously.

But why would 343GS be happy to see the Flood reproduce? Maybe because his sole purpose is the elimination of the flood?

  • 06.23.2004 11:57 AM PDT
Subject: WHY DO YOU HESITATE TO DO WHAT YOU'VE ALREDY DONE
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i know weve discussed the rampancy but what you say about a 7-year lifespan i believe is wrong. the 7-year lifespan refers to how long the humans would allow her to exist before they decided to terminate her so she would not go rampant from the overloading of data because it seems the robots become philosophical after a few years and that causes them to become rampant. Cortana said she was changed after the incident in halo because the wealth of knowledge overloaded her hard-drive so she doesnt have any more room, which will cause her to become rampant. now of course i could be COMPLETELY wrong if mr. nylund or bungie look at it differently. :) who knows? well......bungie knows.

  • 06.23.2004 12:02 PM PDT
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wait a minute if the forerunners are humans than why are they the covenants gods?

  • 06.23.2004 12:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: PsychoElite
wait a minute if the forerunners are humans than why are they the covenants gods?


Keep in mind what "Covenant Religion" really is. Not to get into any present day religious debates, but it seems to me to be very similiar to many religions both past and present here on earth: a cover, even an excuse, to control the masses to do your own bidding. The Prophets are in some sort of truce with the Elites. The Prophets claim various sorts of religious importance as both motivation and control. If one of them says the destruction of humanity "is the will of the gods" does that mean a forerunner inscription says "kill all humans?" Does it mean a group of gods in the form of bright light come down one night from heaven and said "kill all humans?" Or did some big Lord Prophet say to himself, "humans are smart, and expanding. we must kill them before they can threaten and overpower us!" then he goes to the others and says "let's go on a holy crusade to kill all humans."

There are two reasons the Covenant worship the forerunners, and all aren't mutally exclusive.

1)the religion dates back to worshiping "alien" artifacts, much like christians would worship the ark or the cross. That doens't mean they necessarily continue to be god fearing people though.

2)They simple pay them respect for providing all of their technology.

In short, the covenant may consider them "gods" (they may have achieved a sort of "enlightenment" by transcending time and space and thus dissapearred from the galaxy), but that doesn't mean they'd worship their descendents. I think power and greed overcome that. The covenant fear us. That's why they want us destroyed. In truth, religion does not factor into this. That's just an excuse, or a cover to motivate their client races and their beaucracy to fight. Today has a millioni good examples of that. I'm sure you can come up with your own examples without my painting you a picture. :P

-∆å©´®

  • 06.23.2004 1:23 PM PDT
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When Guilty Spark says the previous "Reclaimer" he is talking about a UNSC Marine which he had picked out before the Master Cheif to retrieve the Index. If I may reference you to pages 244 and 245 of Halo:The Flood you with see what I am talking about. The key words are as followed:

**As he proceeded deeper into the Library, he found a corpse- a human one. He stooped to examine the body.
It wasn't pretty. The Marines body was so mangled that even the Flood couldn't make use of him. He lay in the center of a large bloodstain wreathed by spent brass.
"Ah," 343 Guilty Spark said, peering down over the Spartan's shoulder. "The other Reclaimer. His combat skin even proved less suitable than yours."
The soldier looked up and over his shoulder. "What do you mean?"
"Is this a test, Relcaimer?" the Monitor seemed genuinely puzzled. "I found him wandering through a structure on the other side of the ring, and brought him to the same point where you started."
The Cheif looked down at the body and marveled at the fact that anyone could make it that far. Even with his physical augmentation, and the advantages of his armor, the Spartan was reaching the end of his endurance.
He checked and found the leatherneck's dog tags, and read the name. Mobuto, Marvin, Staff Seargant, followed by a service number.
The Cheif put the tags away. "I didn't know you, Sarge, but I sure as hell wish I had. You must have been on hard-core son of a -blam!-."
It wasn't much as eulogies go, but he hoped that, had Seargant Marvin Mobuto been there to hear it, he would have approved.**

And there you have it! That is the previous Reclaimer 343 Guilty Spark is talking about. I guess after you read all the books twice you remember things like this.

  • 06.23.2004 2:51 PM PDT
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UMMM......anyway who was the first forrunner?

  • 06.23.2004 6:43 PM PDT
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No one knows. The Forerunners were an ancient race that were the creators of the Halo rings and the basis of the Covenant technologies and religion.

  • 06.23.2004 7:53 PM PDT
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So many unanswered questions....

We will probably know the answers to them.

  • 06.24.2004 6:36 AM PDT
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on the note of "Why would the covenant want the humans dead if we are the forerunner" it is in my belief that the prophets (and maybe elites) were forerunner slaves.

  • 06.24.2004 11:49 AM PDT
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I disagree. I think that if humans were Forerunners, the Covenant would have to obey and pray to the humans, and that is why they decided instead to kill them all

  • 06.24.2004 12:30 PM PDT
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iv really started something here......

  • 06.24.2004 5:32 PM PDT
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HEY!!! who's the one who started the thread that you posted on to start the debate you started??? i belive I started this

  • 06.24.2004 5:37 PM PDT

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