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  • Subject: Panel Discussion: TTL on Improving H3
Subject: Panel Discussion: TTL on Improving H3

Fix the BR spread. It's terrible in MM.

Also, spawn system is frustrating. I don't think a team that is skilled enough to gain and maintain map control should be penalized by having a player spawn behind them IN THEIR SETUP.

[Edited on 06.04.2008 9:46 AM PDT]

  • 06.04.2008 9:43 AM PDT

First thing I'd change: Show the gametype/map that would happen with a veto. There's nothing worse than vetoing a game because I don't like the map and then getting a map and a gametype I don't like on the veto.

Second thing I'd change: More game types with no snipers. Standoff is my favorite map at the moment, in no small part due to it's lack of sniper. Don't get me wrong, I don't want snipers gone completely, but I think a lot of the time snipers take the fun out of a game. Introduce a snipers playlist for the folks who enjoy sitting behind a rock waiting for someone on the other side of the map to peek their head out from behind their rock and reduce snipers in regular team slayer. Remove all sniper gametypes from Lone Wolves.

3rd thing: Introduce 3 player team playlist.

4th thing: Increase the tripmine power.

5th thing: Remove the "Slow down the player after they get jacked" thing. I'm fine with the damage the jacked player takes but I don't understand the near paralysis that comes with it.

  • 06.04.2008 9:44 AM PDT
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hmm... let's see...
more money\credits\objects (effects etc) on some of the earlier halo maps, fire weapons like flame thrower and flame grenades on at lease 1 vs 1 matches (to prevent lag)

purchasable terrain for personal play lists [i.e. a water trowel, snow effect for terrain,]

If you added chainsaws somehow like GOW, you would probably sell another 200,000 halo 3 copies... ;)

ability to spawn damaged vehicles that still work
ability to purchase the elephant on large maps (make it faster by about 25%)
veto gametype press b veto game press x (only one or the other)
allow playlists to auto-balance (add another live member) when someone drops out before the match starts
allow non-live versions of the maps without kill zones
increase running speed and shields on all large maps to negate massive spawn killers
make the sniper bob more while running (its too easy now) -
Make a battle tank match with griff ball ideas (not sure how to explain it)
more space maps(on the moon, or top of a battleship), you can edit gravity let us fight on a moon base, make it really dark in some areas or awfully bright

make a race map, with ghosts, designed for racing so narrow and long with a few turns...






  • 06.04.2008 9:45 AM PDT
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I would like to see you fix matchamaking so that I (as a highest level of 13) NEVER have to play against someone who is a level 50 no matter what playlist we are on.

  • 06.04.2008 9:46 AM PDT
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i think that abit like on fifa you could also decide/veto weather conditions like having it raining snowing or differant weather types rather than just sunny would be better

  • 06.04.2008 9:46 AM PDT
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give reacon to players how have logged in 6,000 matches or more,or at least put out new armour and symbols

  • 06.04.2008 9:47 AM PDT
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tinker with the spawn system plz. i hate having players spawn behind me!!
also, can there be some sort of reliable br spread? it's WAY too inconsistent on matchmaking...

  • 06.04.2008 9:48 AM PDT
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1. Better (more H2-like maps)

a) Sanctuary for example was amazing... Not too many campable spaces or corners, long lines of sight and plenty of cover. Comparing Sanctuary to The Pit almost makes me sad (were I not so manly). The Pit (although amazing due to symmetrical greatness) is lacking in lines of sight and forces mid-long range battles into mid-short range battles REGARDLESS of weapons being held. Current map setup forces FAR too much short range play.

tl;dr: moar competitive maps pl0x


b) More depthful close-range gameplay. At the moment, close-range combat is VERY limited when it comes to simultanious-melee. You either shoot, or go for the other melee... There is little-no depthy playmaking involved. And why is that?
Auto-aim. When it comes to trying to avoid a Shotgun-Melee, Mauler-Melee, even AR-Melee there is VERY little one can do in order to avoid the incoming lunge. Jumping is ineffective. Ducking is ineffective. And strafing is ineffective.
These annoyances could be avoided if the Melee Auto-aim/lunge was reduced. Being able to jump over someone or duck under one of their melees adds more depth to close range combat.

c) Balancing of maps on certain playlists. It's HELL to play Doubles on Epitaph/Snowbound/Foundry/The Pit... ANY MAP.
It seems as though the current map setups are geared towards 4v4 battles, there is just too much to keep track of and control of with 2v2.
Guardian for example... The smallest shipped map (maybe Epitaph is smaller, but who cares). What does it house for a 2v2 game?

Active Camo
Shotgun
Hammer
Bubble Shield
Overshield
Sniper Rifle

For FOUR total people? Once one team controls atleast a quarter of that the game turns into a campfest.

PLEASE retool some of the maps so that the game is fair from the beginnng of the match.

That's all for now, i'll post more if I think of more.

  • 06.04.2008 9:50 AM PDT
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Head-To-Head: Complete garbage. There's nothing about this playlist that's good. The idea of duel is horrible. Objective 1v1 is dumb (especially KotH).

Team Slayer: AR starts is horrible on Narrows. BR starts are the best, but on most maps there are enough BRs where it's not too big a deal having to do AR start (Pit, Isolation, Standoff, Construct). Narrows there are 2 on each side, and no where else. It's also bad on Guardian. Guardian in itself leads to major standoffs, with each team holding down either Snipe or Lift. With ARs, it's almost impossible to attack when you are down to launch an attack on either stronghold. The fact that with the recent update, the BR start has been decreased only makes matters worse.

SWAT: ShWAT. Really? Are you serious?

Lone Wolves: Why is a swords game in a ranked playlist? Really? The most random game ever, also the least enjoyable. Same goes with Sword Duel in Head-to-Head. Except, when you get the lead there, you're automatically screwed because the other guy knows where you are and will assassinate you with the 50 million foot lunge.

As for the actual game itself, the spawn system in H3 is just horrible. I can't tell you how many times me or a teammate spawns and is immediately killed. I don't know what went wrong between H3 and H2, but I never complained about H2's spawn system, and that's the biggest gripe I have with H3. There are countless times where I spawn next to a teammate, only to be immediately sniped and killed less than 5 seconds of being alive. There are countless times where I spawn behind the enemy, and get a quick easy double kill. It's so annoying when you spawn right in the middle of the fray and have no time to react and realize where you are and the current situation. It's even more annoying when you know that there are so many more positions where you can spawn and spawn safely, but yet you spawn right in the line of fire. Ridiculous.

The rest of the game itself is solid. The balance between weapons is pretty good, and the overall mechanics is good. The spawn system really kills it for me though, and trying to play a competitive game of Team Slayer is hard to enjoy with the AR starts. I love BR start games, where you have BR for mid-range and can whip out the AR short range. But again, on maps like Narrows and Guardian, you have very little choice when you start with only the AR.

[Edited on 06.04.2008 9:55 AM PDT]

  • 06.04.2008 9:51 AM PDT
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I feel the BR spread should be a little tighter and there should be more arena style maps. Maybe revamp the melee system again lol. (Not that big of a deal to me but it could be improved)

  • 06.04.2008 9:52 AM PDT

DaTdudE owns

Ok first off i would like to say bungie has done a good job with all 3 halos. However for halo3 being the last halo and finishing the fight i think personally it wasnt fufilling. The br is still four shots to the head but dear lord it doesnt feel like it at all. Obviously the pistol will never be brought back because its such a powerhouse which i wont complain. But for me halo2 took sooooo much more skill because of these reasons (1) The gameplay is way faster than in halo3. Your whole body and movement and melee is very quick reaction thinking. In halo3 a noob can somehow get a kill cause its slow and everyone has a cute little chance. Also i dont understand why would you not have some sweet combo in halo3? In halo2 there was a bxr and bxb and double shot. Now correct me if im wrong but the people who knew how to do that would -blam!- people who didint which made all the noobies mad. Those combos are hard to pull off in a game and you feel rewarded when you pull them off. In halo3 what do you pull off? a really slow melee for the win lol? And the Nades in halo3 are crappy. I think when i throw the nade a 12 year olds throwing it. In Halo2 you throw it up a little and it takes off like it should. In halo3 it looks like its to heavy for master cheif to launch a good nade. All in all not a bad game though. If i look back though id much rather play halo2 and i wish halo1 was online to play. So with all that said i just wish the nades were changed and the movement speed would be picked up a bit and somehow have something sweet like bxr but i no they wont change it. I think bungie just wants to be fair.......so when i play double team and the guy gets rockets its just fair ya no lol?? Plzz change nades, speed, get a combo, and you flippin remade lockout it has to be a fav map for alot off ppl and i get freakin Epitaph more than blackout? now that sucks

  • 06.04.2008 9:54 AM PDT
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here is a small list of some things that I think should be changed. I will start with the easy ones to understand and then move to the more complex ones.

*Note: Most of these changes reflect a more competative point of view and are shared by most hight level and or competative gamers.

1) Fix the coding that causes power weapons to spawn 30 seconds later if they are picked up before the hit the ground.

2) Fix the coding that causes you to recieve no effect from custom power ups if you are low on shields. It should act just like the normal overshield in that it replenishes your shields and give you the added shields the instant you pick it up even if your shields are low.

3.) Move Head shot hit boxes a little lower. As it is right now, shooting a guy in the lower half of his head (nose on down) it doesn't count as a head shot. This also goes the other way around. Many times you can shot just barely over the top of their head but it still counts as a headshot.

4) Increase the size of the hit boxes (especially the head). The reason for this being that with the drastic decrease in auto aim, it is extremely hard to hit such a small moving target. This is even more an issue with the head and sniping. If the target is at any considerable distance and is moving its is almost by chance that you will score a headshot, instead of being based on your aiming ability.

5) Nerf the AR. The AR is to powerful. It even a medium range it can easily beat a 5 shot battle rifle. The person wielding the BR should be at an advantage because they are using a more skillful weapon. You should be rewarded for being able to master the more difficult of the weapons, but right now someone who is very unskilled and has poor aim, can just run at you with an AR and still win the battle even though your BR shot is perfect.

6.) Fix the the BR. Now this is a very general statement and one that you hear a lot. However, let me explain this further. The first thing that needs to be fixed is the spread. I know its realistic that the 3 shots in each burst don't hit the exact same point (at least at a distance). However, this is not practical for gaming and even further for online gaming. This like with the hit boxes leads to an element of chance. Depending on how the target is moving, his distance, and your crosshair positioning, you may get unlucky have have that 1 bullet stray and go to that one spot that misses the target (even though your crosshair and overal general aim was good). The second element of the BR that must be fixed is the bullet speed. The bullets take much to long to reach there targets. If the target is at any considerable distance and is moving its a nightmare trying to find that right spot to lead your shots to in order to make every bullet connect. The third and final element of the BR that needs to be changed is the auto-aim. The auto-aim needs to have a slight increase. Keyword here is slight. I'm not nore is are most people asking for the Halo 2 BR. But I think that somewhere in the middle between the H2 and H3 br would be best. That way once again distance shooting and BR battles are not won by chance. Also making the BR just a little bit easier to aim and fire will force players to encompass a more diverse range of skills and not just aiming. Players will be forced to use better teamwork, strategies, map control, etc. As of now you can be extremely skilled just based on aiming abilities. Thats what 90% of this game feels like now is an aiming contest. With all this said, it should be noted that the BR really isn't too bad. It works fairly well on lan. But the problem is 99.99% of halo games are not played on lan so there for latency must be taken into account. All of my previously mentioned BR problems are make even worse (far worse) with lag thrown into the mix. Most players know that when it comes to online play and shooting the BR, its like rolling a die to see if your shots connect. All I know is you guys took average host to client latency when creating the new melee system, so why didn't you take that into account when designing the BR and other weapons.

  • 06.04.2008 9:55 AM PDT
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proper suggestion that you can do.

In forge, add Forge Glue (so that walls and stuff don't fall over and to keep things in one place so they don't get bumped by other items.)

90 degree snap would be great and easy to place walls and this is easier to implement than forge glue.

Oh yeah, and a server upgrade would be nice. (At least 50mbps (is that what teh name is?) is needed for all these Halo 3 players... Stops lag a bit too.)

  • 06.04.2008 9:55 AM PDT

Hi Bungie!
Thanks very much for doing this it's just what we need. Hope you haven't had to trawl through too much "ZOMG FIRE BOMBS PLZZZ!" :P

Anyway, here's what I'd personally like to be changed about Halo 3:
-The BR Spread - Tightened, like in Halo 2. At the moment, in a BR duel it can be quite random who wins. Alternatively, make it an option in customs games.
-The Spawns - I'm sure everyone's had that annoying occasion where they spawn right below two of their opponents. I don't really have a 'quick fix' for the spawns, although I feel that Halo 2 and perhaps even Halo 1 spawns were better
-The Melees - I prefer the current system to the old one, but an option to change back to Halo 2's system would be nice - where first melee won, and jump melees > running melees > standing melees
-The Hit Boxes - This is probably what I hear people getting most frustrated about on Live - indeed, I do too. Often I hear, "I headshotted him!!! I saw the blood!!!". Obviously part of the problem is lag which can't really be fixed, but even on LAN, or a good XBL host I've headshotted people and seen the blood, and seen the bullet go through his head on theater, but not get the kill. I'm sure this is something the whole community would really appriciate.
-The Shield Doors - I have 3 proposals for these - Their removal, the option to remove them, or making it so that if Snowbound is vetoed Epitaph does not come up and visa versa. Both Epitaph and Snowbound offer similar gameplays (camping), which is fine for people that enjoy it, but generally if people veto one they won't like the other, because the gameplay is so similar.
-The Grenades - Seem to do an inconsistant amount of damage. I don't know whether this is hitbox related, but sometimes a frag at someone's feet will do like half shield damage. Also, grenades hit the textured walls and randomly rebound often which is quite frustrating.

They would be my biggest changes. Hope that helps, and again, many thanks!

  • 06.04.2008 9:57 AM PDT
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What Halo 3 needs Improvement on-

Skill

Sniping really takes no skill, you just aim at a guys head and shoot.
Make sniping a little harder in aiming. Thats all I think is wrong in skill
you can do the rest.

Ability

*to change from first person to full body

*Full body perms (Leg, foot, hands etc.)

*More attack features

Team Work

One last thing, Help the halo 3 players with new strategies so they can
have better team work. Oh yeah, During team slayer or any team game
we should be able to appear in our own colors.

  • 06.04.2008 9:58 AM PDT

BLOOD GULCH!

  • 06.04.2008 9:58 AM PDT

Don't make so many games that start with BR's.

I think there should be a voting system instead of a vetoing system. For example, you get to the last step in finding people to play with, then two maps come up with two different game types and you get to choose one, then it loads the map. I hate when it takes a long time to load the first map when it then gets vetoed anyway... waste of everyone's time.

I hate the new(ish) melee system. Only one person should die when you hit each other, end of story.

More forge maps. Maybe a play list. Like a Bungie Favorites play list. get the community more involved, show more people what can be done in the forge and ultimately, how cool would it be for people to say: "I helped make this play list because I designed one of the maps they use for it." Or just in everyday play lists, like how the MLG one has their versions of foundry, I love when those come up.

Why the hell do plasmas just bounce off people?!?! Every once and awhile I will throw a plasma at someone and instead of sticking them, it simply bounces off of them... pisses me off.

A new map like foundry, except more user friendly. I think you should make a map that is literally just a flat floor. Foundry has that stupid claw hanging from the ceiling that always, always get in the way and it has the bases... The simpler you guys make a map for us to use, the more creative we are going to be. Just to reiterate, perfectly flat floor, nothing else, if there are walls all around it (like foundry), make them perfectly flat as well. Lastly, make it tall, make it so I could make a hotel if I wanted and have 10 different floors, I really think there would be a ton of potential in this idea.

More downloadable content, but not that we have to pay for. Like, more little pictures and background for our symbols, I can't tell you how many people will use the same symbol, just because its all that looks cool. Maybe some more armor types, I'm not suggesting you give everyone recon, but maybe something more simple, but free, just to add more variety.

Definitely more maps, the current ones are good, but keep making more, it definitely keeps me more interested if I know I get to play on a new map and learn new strategies with me team.

Something I would like is a 3v3 play list, maybe not enough people would be interested. In halo 2, I would only do clan matches (until you took them away) just because it was the only way to do 3v3. I personally think the best strategies and best team work comes out of a 3v3 game of halo.

On that note, clan matches. bring back clan matches. They were my favorite part of Halo 2. Make it so people can only change clans like every so often, like every 30 days or something. I hated when people would just start a new clan every time they got online... but seriously you could get around that, reintroduce clans and add a whole new level to Halo 3.

Stop making it so easy for people to get the achievements. This legendary brawl play list you ha recently made me kind of mad. It was really easy to get any achievement you needed... I worked really hard to carry that katana on my back, but I wouldn't have worked nearly as hard if I had known you were practically going to hand them out later.

Again, I keep referring to this, but more forge. I can't stress enough how absolutely amazing the forge is. Its something no other game has, something that gives Halo that edge over other current games. Get more people involved, get more people to use and create with the forge. End of story.

Sorry if all of this has been said, I did not have time to read all 20 pages of this forum.
Thank you for listening Bungie, thats just one more thing you guys do that other major games don't.
Can't wait for Halo to get even better,
-Hawksfire

  • 06.04.2008 9:58 AM PDT
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I would like to see 4 things:

1.) Minimizing the BR spread

2.) Options to alter the damage done by weapons individually in the custom game options. Meaning that if I want to make the Battle Rifle stronger and the Shotgun weaker (just an example) I would be able to set that up, I think that would really offer a lot of scope for customization of a variety of game types both competitive and none-competitive.

3.) Improved hit-boxes (in general), headshot detection is way inferior to H2

4.) As an editor this one is more video-orientated but I (and other editors) have often craved an area or forge Item that could act as a 'green screen' which could be keyed out in post production and would be really useful to video makers

It's great to see you guys asking the community for their feedback :)

[Edited on 06.04.2008 10:02 AM PDT]

  • 06.04.2008 10:00 AM PDT
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There are four things that I want to talk about
- BR Spread
- Host
- Assault
-Spawns
The BR spread being random can take away from the competative nature of this game. Why would you want to have a random factor in a competative game. We are trying to see who has the most skill here, not who gets the lucky spread. It would suit Bungie to take out the random BR spread.

Host is yet another problem that is taking away from competative play online. Bungie should create a way to choose has the host in customs games. Bungie could simply make it like Halo 2, where whoever made the party recieved host. As you know host gives an advantage. So when playing in a competative setting it is important that host is distributed equally. The same person should not get host everytime. For all the kids that say i am wrong. If you consistently put the same eight people in a party, assuming everyone has a stable connection, the same person will get host everytime.


There is one small change that needs to be made to the assault gametype to give it a chance competatively. When the bomb is armed the announcer should announce that the bomb is armed,

Spawns also hurt to competativness of this game. For example on foundry and any branch off of Foundry spawns are completely broken. People spawn behind you left and right, Thats just one example, another would be High Ground where spawns are just ridiculous. The spawn system needs to be reworked.

  • 06.04.2008 10:01 AM PDT

bungie needs to fix the melee system I mean numerous times a person with half shields and a person with quarter shields beat each other down THATs DISAPPOINTING if you were good enough to get the other person lower shields then you should be rewarded with the kill and you SHOULD NOT DIE

  • 06.04.2008 10:03 AM PDT

If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat?

Definitely a community playlist or... ACTION SACK!!

Yeah, that was a great playlist...

  • 06.04.2008 10:03 AM PDT
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more BR starts, no AR secondary.

no equipment (at least with BR starts..)

a team snipers playlist, with just straight up slayer - human sniper start with covenant secondary.

just like halo 2 snipers.

a way to convert saved films into a view only mode, no camera angles, so you can upload it to the internet withouth the trouble of capture cards.

less power weapons in default slayer.

the lunge is pretty inconsistent..

and the BR spread is as well.

a mlg style FFA playlist, and a mlg style 1v1. no equipment!

NO VEHICLES. especially ghosts.. good god..

  • 06.04.2008 10:05 AM PDT

spawn system NEEDS to be fixed

veto system aswell
it should show themap and gametype your vetoing to

  • 06.04.2008 10:05 AM PDT
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Thank you bungie for all the input you guys receive from the community. I think it would be awesome to see potentially the br spread fixed, the pistol rate of fire increased with possible scope, and the carbine restored to its true glory that was seen in the H3 beta.

P.S. Head to Head either needs to have the duel indicator for both players or none at all. Also the explosive cores littered throughout the maps for the playlist should be reduced drastically.

[Edited on 06.04.2008 10:08 AM PDT]

  • 06.04.2008 10:06 AM PDT