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This topic has moved here: Subject: Forerunners CANNOT be Humans.
  • Subject: Forerunners CANNOT be Humans.
Subject: Forerunners CANNOT be Humans.
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Note: I didn't post it in the other thread just so everyone can easily notice this message.

There is already enough evidence to prove that humanity, the -blam!- sapiens, were never, and could never, have been the forerunner species. Humans have already brought out enough experiments and scientific research to know, well enough, the history of our planet and the life upon it.

After the big bang had occurred and our planet brought out development, the atmosphere was way too harsh for any living organism to survive. In addition, it was also way too [b]hot.[b] The Earth’s early atmosphere contained hydrogen cyanide, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, nitrogen, hydrogen sulfide, and water.

About four billion years ago, Earth cooled enough to allow solid rocks to form. About 3.8 billion years ago, Earth cooled enough for water to remain a liquid. How did we find out how organisms came about upon the planet? It was no Adam and Eve. It all started from the amino acids that came from the lightning and the substances within’ the atmosphere. We found this out from Miller and Urey’s experiment.

Since I don’t have my main resource to explain how their experiment worked, I’ll leave you one from tidepool.st.usm.edu:

In 1953, Miller and Urey tested the "Oparin and Haldane* hypothesis1 by attempting to simulate in a closed system devoid of living organisms the conditions presumed to exist on the early earth's surface. They found that by subjecting a mixture of gases (water vapor, hydrogen, methane and ammonia) to energy, a variety of amino acids and other organic compounds were synthesized in a few days. Numerous replications and modifications of this experiment in many laboratories have yielded similar results. Chemicals formed include all 20 amino acids, sugars, lipids, the purine and pyrimidine bases found in nucleic acids and ATP (when phosphate is also present). These results are obtained as long as oxygen gas is not present in the reaction mixture. Results of this experiment caused a new era of experimentation and analysis of possible primordial components. Coupled with this were the new important discoveries by astrophysicists of the presence of organic molecules in the interstellar medium and in meteorites. However, at present, the relevance of the experimental results of Miller and Urey are being questioned, since the atmospheric conditions used in the experiment are not thought to accurately reflect those of the early earth.

This hypothesis stated that conditions on the primitive earth favored chemical reactions that synthesized organic compounds from inorganic precursors.


AKA Lightning + Early Atmosphere = Amino Acids.

Anyways, after this, we have enough evidence from microfossils and fossils, and using relative dating and radioactive dating upon those fossils, to know the complete history of life. From the time where life first came upon earth, to our present time – therefore in conclusion, there’s no possible way the forerunners can be the humanity species.

  • 04.19.2004 4:46 AM PDT
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Very nice research, and you're obviously intelligent, but I think you've missed a vital point : Halo IS NOT REAL (For a given value of real). ;) It exists in it's own universe, so it doesn't actually have to correspond to our own...

So the forerunners could be human, but as you pointed out, not in our universe, But that doesn't matter, because quantum theory predicts that there are an infinite number of possible universes out there, and in such infinity lies the trick. In an infinite Multiverse, all things are not only possible, but actually happen at some time, at some point. So in that sense, Halo IS real, and the boys and girls at bungie are PSYCHIC!

[Edited on 4/19/2004 5:02:48 AM]

  • 04.19.2004 4:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: serpx
Note: I didn't post it in the other thread just so everyone can easily notice this message.

There is already enough evidence to prove that humanity, the -blam!- sapiens, were never, and could never, have been the forerunner species. Humans have already brought out enough experiments and scientific research to know, well enough, the history of our planet and the life upon it.

After the big bang had occurred and our planet brought out development, the atmosphere was way too harsh for any living organism to survive. In addition, it was also way too [b]hot.[b] The Earth’s early atmosphere contained hydrogen cyanide, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, nitrogen, hydrogen sulfide, and water.

About four billion years ago, Earth cooled enough to allow solid rocks to form. About 3.8 billion years ago, Earth cooled enough for water to remain a liquid. How did we find out how organisms came about upon the planet? It was no Adam and Eve. It all started from the amino acids that came from the lightning and the substances within’ the atmosphere. We found this out from Miller and Urey’s experiment.

Since I don’t have my main resource to explain how their experiment worked, I’ll leave you one from tidepool.st.usm.edu:

In 1953, Miller and Urey tested the "Oparin and Haldane* hypothesis1 by attempting to simulate in a closed system devoid of living organisms the conditions presumed to exist on the early earth's surface. They found that by subjecting a mixture of gases (water vapor, hydrogen, methane and ammonia) to energy, a variety of amino acids and other organic compounds were synthesized in a few days. Numerous replications and modifications of this experiment in many laboratories have yielded similar results. Chemicals formed include all 20 amino acids, sugars, lipids, the purine and pyrimidine bases found in nucleic acids and ATP (when phosphate is also present). These results are obtained as long as oxygen gas is not present in the reaction mixture. Results of this experiment caused a new era of experimentation and analysis of possible primordial components. Coupled with this were the new important discoveries by astrophysicists of the presence of organic molecules in the interstellar medium and in meteorites. However, at present, the relevance of the experimental results of Miller and Urey are being questioned, since the atmospheric conditions used in the experiment are not thought to accurately reflect those of the early earth.

This hypothesis stated that conditions on the primitive earth favored chemical reactions that synthesized organic compounds from inorganic precursors.


AKA Lightning + Early Atmosphere = Amino Acids.

Anyways, after this, we have enough evidence from microfossils and fossils, and using relative dating and radioactive dating upon those fossils, to know the complete history of life. From the time where life first came upon earth, to our present time – therefore in conclusion, there’s no possible way the forerunners can be the humanity species.



Hey thanks darwin, but i agree with that other guy halo doesnt corespond to our planet. IT IS JUST A GAME... i cant believe i just said that.

  • 04.19.2004 4:59 AM PDT
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Well of course it's "just a game." But if it DOES follow any sense of realism at all, then there you have it.

So far, Halo is all-out realistic. It's one of the most realistic scientific-fiction adventures I've ever witnessed.

  • 04.19.2004 5:08 AM PDT
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Oh, and upon my opinion -- I think the forerunner are a whole different race all together.

  • 04.19.2004 5:10 AM PDT
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Well i think they're human. I've already posted my reasons at http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=15149&post Repeater1-p=3 and it's very long, so i'm not gonna do it again.

And this should all go back to the "Are the Forerunners extinct?" thread, this one's just gonna turn into a repeat of that one

  • 04.19.2004 5:28 AM PDT
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Problem is there is no way to prove those teories of man. That''s why I stick to the divine word of God....Also I remember Frnakie mentioning Halo 2 proving/disproving the exsistence of God....I go with the Proving for right now thank you very much.

  • 04.19.2004 5:52 AM PDT
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Actually Halo 2 couldn't prove or disprove the existence of God, only offer another imperfect (Sorry Bungie but you can't win 'em all) human theory.


[Edited on 4/19/2004 6:11:46 AM]

  • 04.19.2004 5:58 AM PDT
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If the "other post" is my old post... then you DID NOT get the point.

I stated that the humans were the Forerunner because of time travel.

  • 04.19.2004 6:18 AM PDT
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Off humans altogether I think it was the brutes. After all why would they be so pissed just to introduce themselves in halo2 just after halo has been destroyed.

  • 04.19.2004 8:30 AM PDT
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The forruners can be human because the covy's never got to see them, what i mean is that the forrunner's just left every thin behind and the covy's just thought that they were some grate race.

[Edited on 4/19/2004 8:34:09 AM]

  • 04.19.2004 8:33 AM PDT
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On the topic, although very scientifically enlightening, doesn't prove anything or disprove anything. And yes, I know Halo is just a game, but I'm going to assume it's real for the moment, remember this is hundreds of years in the future as well. As far as scientists proving a theory that life could have sprung from earth, that doesn't prove that all life on earth is a result of that. I also remember watching some show a few years ago and it was going over where man came from. The show was trying to show man's evolution but there was major evolutionary gaps in where they were trying to say we came from or thought we might come from, and where we are known to have come from. Also, for the sake of Halo being real, if we ever proved 100% our entire history and where we came from that still doesn't mean that the forerunners aren't humans. Like that other post was about talking about timetravel, it's possible that shortly after the timeline in Halo and Halo2 that an armada of humans are sent back in time for one reason or another and build the Halo rings. Or it's possible that they get built after Halo2 and are sent back in time somehow. Maybe after the battles between the covenent all the halo rings get destroyed, but the flood are still loose, so humans, remembering that the Halo rings contained the flood nicely, decide to duplicate the rings and start building rings themselves. What they don't know is they are building the exact same rings that they had destroyed, and they contain the flood, and make the rings capable of destroying the entire galaxy if need be. Maybe they also have discvered time travel and decide to send the rings far far into the future so they don't have to worry about them, but they make a mistake and send all the rings to the past, thus why they've been around for so long by Halo 1, also explaining why 343GS seemed to recognize master chief and why master chief was whereing armor that while current technology, was predated for GS. MC was wearing a 2nd or 3rd generation suit while he needed a 12th generation, or something along those lines.

Also somebody mentioned Frankie mentioning that Halo 2 will prove or disprove the excistence of god. Actually Frankie never said that, what he was talking about was that something was so important that someone was working on it was the equivilent of proving/ disproving god. This was either some story or was actually maybe just a graphic trick someone was talking about. I do believe he was quoting someone though that was working on halo.

  • 04.19.2004 9:26 AM PDT


How did we find out how organisms came about upon the planet? It was no Adam and Eve. It all started from the amino acids that came from the lightning and the substances within’ the atmosphere. We found this out from Miller and Urey’s experiment.



Ah, yes- there is one problem with that theory, my friend. A cell cannot be made without instructions, things to tell it how to work. DNA does this, it is the thing that makes cells work. So, you say, that, billions of years ago, a single cell was made from amino acids, complete with DNA. Simple you say, right? Wrong. DNA is VERY complex. Saying that it was suddenly "made" doesn't work. It would be the equivalent of the entire information of a thousand page dictionary suddenly being made inside a cell- on accident.


  • 04.19.2004 9:37 AM PDT
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Ok lets settle this thing.
ONE: God is real.
TWO: "Forrunners are not a part of human race" as so would seem. I don't know only Bungie can tell.
THREE: Covies are coming to blow up earth in the next halo

  • 04.19.2004 9:47 AM PDT
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Everyone has there opinions... except Covies are coming to blow up Earth in Halo 2, that's a fact we know for sure.

  • 04.19.2004 9:49 AM PDT
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I agree, egassler. But some opinions are really hard to believe. For instance: a massive random explosion created the Earth. What!?!?!?! How does an explosion (Usually considered slightly destructive...) create something? Also, Serpx, if you have ever seen a picture of DNA, you would know that they couldn't possibly have just "happened".

  • 04.19.2004 11:03 AM PDT
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All right. This is more in-depth data regarding those amino acids, and cells. Unless you know what I'm talking about, don't even read this.

How did life begin? Well, Earth cooled enough to carry liquid water, and cells similar to modern bacteria were common. How might these cells have orginated?

Under certain conditions, large organic molecules can form tiny bubbles called proteinoid microspheres. Microspheres are not cells, but they have some characteristics of living systems. Like cells, they have selectively permeable membranes through which water molecules can pass. Microspheres also have a simple means of storing and releasing energy. Several hypothesis suggest that structures similar to proteinoid microspheres might have acquired more and more characteristics of living cells.

Regarding the evolution of RNA and DNA -- one unanswered question in the evolution of cells is the origin of DNA and RNA. As we all hopefully know, all cells are controlled by information stored in DNA, which is transcribed into RNA and then translated into proteins. How could this biochemical machinery have evolved?

Science cannot yet solve this puzzle, although molecular biologists have made surprising discoveries in this area. Under the right conditions, some RNA sequences can help DNA replicate. Other RNA sequences process messenger RNA after transcription. Still others catalyze chemical reactions. Some RNA molecules can even grow and duplicate themselves -- suggested that small sequences of RNA could have formed and replicated on their own. From this relatively simple RNA-based form of life, several steps could have led to the system of DNA-directed protein synthesis that exists now. Future experiments are aimed at refining and retesting this hypothesis.

Of course, all of this is in the side of "Evolution." Countless arguments fall upon this division. Believe what you desire, I'm just noting scientific facts.

  • 04.19.2004 2:06 PM PDT
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Oh, I forgot one notice.

One of Miller's experiments in 1995 produced cytosine and uracil, two of the bases found in RNA.

Hmm.

  • 04.19.2004 2:08 PM PDT
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The last halo detonation wiped everything out, how do you kno we (in halo) havn't found something about the forerunners hidden deep within our planet.

  • 04.19.2004 2:11 PM PDT
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Well if the surface was too hot for life to exist, and since things get hotter as you go deeper upon our planet, then I doubt life would've existed inside our own planet.

But, who knows, as folks mentioned over and over, it's a video game. Bungie can use their imagination to the fullest.

  • 04.19.2004 2:17 PM PDT
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Erm how did earth start out, oh yeah it was hot. and it doesn't get hot very quickly as you go down, still lots of room to hide things.

  • 04.19.2004 2:20 PM PDT
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Well, I can't say anything regarding this because I only shared what I know when it came with Evolution. If anything, I'm best with mathematics and computer programming.

So, I just can't debate on that matter.

  • 04.19.2004 2:24 PM PDT
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Hmmm i commend you for backing down, esspecially on this forum

  • 04.19.2004 2:29 PM PDT
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THREE: Covies are coming to blow up earth in the next halo

Lol that was funny.

Also maybe earth gets destroyed in halo2? why else would u spend barly any time on earth?

Maybe the forunner have something to do with it?

  • 04.19.2004 2:35 PM PDT
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I agree that forerunners aren't humans and cannot be, but however with all the scientific things that you mentioned, it has nothing to do with the game therefore all that that you wrote actually means nothing. This is just what i beleive and shouldn't be argued against unless it is someone from bungie explaining it to me because bungie has said that rumors shouldn't be taken seriously unless bungie says its true.

  • 04.19.2004 2:37 PM PDT