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This topic has moved here: Subject: Forerunners CANNOT be Humans.
  • Subject: Forerunners CANNOT be Humans.
Subject: Forerunners CANNOT be Humans.
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LoL wow, What's funny is that this is what evolutionary scientist do everyday. Anyway simple rebutting my statements with nothing to back you up is not finding evidence to support creation. It is simply questionin evolution. Either way to say that there is no proof that the whale had an anscestor with four legs is funny to me...

Rodhocetus Balochistanensis is an extinct species of whale that is believed to demonstrate an evolutionary link between whales and artiodactyls -- modern examples of which are hippopotamuses and pigs. This has largely overturned previous fossil-based theories that whales were descended from mesonychids, though it matched studies of the genetic relations between whales and other animals.

This claim is based on the structure of the ankle bones of this species, which shows peculiarites known only in artiodactyls, and their ear bones, which are particularly like those of modern whales.

The first fossils of this species were found in Balochistan Province, Pakistan in 2001 by Philip Gingerich. Dating from about 47 million years ago, they are one of a series of recent discoveries, including the pakicetids, which have thrown considerable light on the previously mysterious evolutionary origin of whales.

  • 04.20.2004 4:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shael
As for evolutionary tree of the horse, it has already been discovered that those fossils had been found all over the globe. . The fact is, however, that Eohippus(the first member of the sequence) has in rock strata just as near to the surface as Equus(the modern horse). Infact all of the members of the sequence appear at almost random depths in the layers of strata. Instead geologists have admitted that all of these creatures lived at the same time. That alone makes the Evolutionary Sequence of the Horse invald.



Again you show that you have done little research on the topic.

When Eohippus lived: Eohippus lived during the early Eocene Epoch, about 50 million years ago. It lived in the Northern hemisphere (in Asia, Europe, and North America). The first fossils of this tiny horse were found in England by the famous paleontologist Richard Owen in 1841 and named Hyracotherium.









  • 04.20.2004 4:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shael
Though if you want me to find evidence on creation I can, I'll just have to do some research.



Again still waiting.

  • 04.20.2004 4:47 PM PDT
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I hate to be an ass guys but i've been a member now officially for 8 minutes and this forum is what made me finally join. If any of you guys follow recent developements in human genetics ( i go to college for microbiology) they can find common elements in all female mitochondria since the female human is the only one that carries the mitochondria in a place that is traceable and it has been found that all humans seem to have originated from the same female who is reffered to as mitochondrial Eve it is quite possible that this mitocondrial eve was one of the forerunner perhaps an outcast or a freak forming the weaker human race

  • 04.20.2004 4:51 PM PDT
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I believed that the Forerunner was a group of a highly intelligent robotic race. And for some reason the Flood or some other dramatic event happened before so a "person" was called upon to activate Halo; and thus is why 343 Guilty Spark calls you so, becuase he thinks that you are the same "person" that activated Halo so long ago. In that you have a list of peramiters that you MUST follow, however you being a cyborg and once human you have something called "free will". Read up on the many history documents and Novels written; some of with can be obtained at: Halo.Bungie.Org And the ring is in another Galaxy than ours. It is in a galaxy quite close to Earth's and that is why you flee Reach (the top secreat research base on Earth) and make a blind jump into space, thus putting millons of lightyears away from Earth, and our galaxy.

[Edited on 4/20/2004 5:06:17 PM]

  • 04.20.2004 5:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: ArtemisEntreri7
I hate to be an ass guys but i've been a member now officially for 8 minutes and this forum is what made me finally join. If any of you guys follow recent developements in human genetics ( i go to college for microbiology) they can find common elements in all female mitochondria since the female human is the only one that carries the mitochondria in a place that is traceable and it has been found that all humans seem to have originated from the same female who is reffered to as mitochondrial Eve it is quite possible that this mitocondrial eve was one of the forerunner perhaps an outcast or a freak forming the weaker human race




Wow, I assume you are getting an F in microbiology. The female human is not the only one that carries the mitochondria in a traceable place. mitochondria is carried, among other places, in male sperm. The rest of that post is laughable, almost as laughable as the great flood story

  • 04.20.2004 5:05 PM PDT
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I believed that the Forerunner was a group of a highly intelligent robotic race. And for some reason the Flood or some other dramatic event happened before so a "person" was called upon to activate Halo; and thus is why 343 Guilty Spark calls you so, becuase he thinks that you are the same "person" that activated Halo so long ago. In that you have a list of peramiters that you MUST follow, however you being a cyborg and once human you have something called "free will". Read up on the many history documents and Novels written; some of with can be obtained at: Halo.Bungie.Org And the ring is in another Galaxy than ours. It is in a galaxy quite close to Earth's and that is why you flee Reach (the top secreat research base on Earth) and make a blind jump into space, thus putting millons of lightyears away from Earth, and our galaxy.

  • 04.20.2004 5:09 PM PDT
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well assume what you will the only part of the reproductive system that carries mitochondria is within the cell wall of the egg but not within the nucleus itself so i think you need to double check your sources, the reason a woman can't trully have a nother woman's child for her is because even though they can inject the nucleus of one female's eggs int another woman's the child will still develope mitochondria in the form of the female's giving birth

  • 04.20.2004 5:10 PM PDT
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Check my sources? Somehow I find it hard to believe you are even in college. In mammals, 99.99% of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is inherited from the mother. This is because the sperm carries its mitochondria around a portion of its tail and has only about 100 mitochondria compared to 100,000 in the oocyte. As the cells develop, more and more of the mtDNA from males is diluted out. Hence less than one part in 104 or 0.01% of the mtDNA is paternal. This means that mutations of mtDNA can be passed from mother to child. It also has implications if one does cloning of mammals with the use of somatic cells. The nuclear DNA would be from the donor cell, but the mtDNA would be from the host cell. This is how Dolly the sheep was cloned.




  • 04.20.2004 5:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shael
Though if you want me to find evidence on creation I can, I'll just have to do some research.



I assume this was an empty promise?

  • 04.20.2004 5:31 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Holy crap, you guys. This is the most interesting thread I've seen. Bring on the Noise and Serpx, very nice work. I'm glad to finally see some research into Forerunner theories.

But we should stop the "where did we come from" argument.... We don't know, and we'll probably never know. Honestly, I cannot wrap my mind around evolution or creation. The only thing that makes sense (but not much) to me (call me crazy) is that Earth was colonized by an alien race of some sort... I also do not believe in beginnings... no beginnings, no ends (in the grand scheme of things, not centering on our existance).

Evolution makes more sense than creation to me, because its like physically changing to adapt to changing environments.

Here's my semi-theory on the Forerunner (no real scientific backing, its just a fabrication of what Bungie has already released through the story line):

The Forerunner were an advanced race that colonized many different planets. At one point, they found/created the Flood. Seeing them as a threat, they constructed the Halos, and wanting the Flood destroyed, they activated them, which whiped out the Forerunners (explaining the absense of Forerunners). Since the "blast" only kills organisms with sufficient biomass (I think its the brain mass to body mass ratio.... can't remember) to sustain the Flood, the machines were left (343 Guilty Spark, the Sentinels, and possibly other monitors/machines). This left the Flood to starve to death... or so they thought. The fact that sentient beings capable of sustaining the Flood found them again proves that the Halos aren't very effective in the long run. More races came about too quickly for the Flood to die out.

And like Bring in the Noise, I'm still waiting for the "creation" proof. And please, don't say the Bible is proof. We've all heard that story.

  • 04.20.2004 5:35 PM PDT
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hey guess what i just checked my biology book and your right the sperm contains one mitochondria, this is to produce energy for the swim it must do but to bad by the time the sperm reaches the egg the mitochondria is done producing enrgy and becomes useless to the process, for all intensive perposes dead, and is not inhereted by the child

  • 04.20.2004 5:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: ArtemisEntreri7
hey guess what i just checked my biology book and your right the sperm contains one mitochondria, this is to produce energy for the swim it must do but to bad by the time the sperm reaches the egg the mitochondria is done producing enrgy and becomes useless to the process, for all intensive perposes dead, and is not inhereted by the child



Well you should check your book again. Not a chance of you being in college, stop posing.

  • 04.20.2004 5:44 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Sorry, its Bring the Noise... I added a word in there.

Anyway, I've gone into way more depth than what I previously posted, and maybe I can find it later.

However, do NOT trust what 343 Guilty Spark says. Not yet. There's a very good chance that he's just simply mistaken about who the Master Chief is... He may be a bit crazy (after all, what AI would go around humming, chirping, and boasting his geniousness).

  • 04.20.2004 5:45 PM PDT
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I Agree. The quantum theory sounds very convincing that A REAL halo could exist sounds very possible.

  • 04.20.2004 5:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shai Hulud
Sorry, its Bring the Noise... I added a word in there.



Np man, my theory is a bit more complicated and hasn't been completely thought out just yet. I will type it up in a little bit.

  • 04.20.2004 5:48 PM PDT
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I see you can't really deny my claim though and i think I know why it's because your a flaming idiot you are a person who can only reciprocate facts force fed to him by other people you are incapable of human thought patterns and you could not possibly fathom that what half people tell you is b.s. they made up the other half is b.s. they thought was the truth grow up and get over you petty scwabbles also grow some bawls and good night

  • 04.20.2004 5:49 PM PDT
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The Forerunners might be human, and they migh not be. Due to all the scientific facts (which should technically not be applicable to this subject as the Forerunners are not real) presented in this ongoing debate, the Forerunners may be human. I accept the time travel idea presented because it would explain why 343 Guilty Spark would recognize the Master Chief. Also, if you examine the visual technology of the Sentinals and Guilty Spark, it does look very human. Personally, I think the forerunners are human, or at least an evolved version. Evolution, my friend, is the thing of miracles.
Here comes my little rant. (I will be talking in past tense)
I think that the Forerunners are a combination of humans and Covenant. The humans created a virus long ago that would have allowed them to destroy the Covenant, hence the Flood virus, but they did not expect it to revive the dead. I'm bored. I'll invent the rest of the story later.

  • 04.20.2004 5:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: ArtemisEntreri7
I see you can't really deny my claim though and i think I know why it's because your a flaming idiot you are a person who can only reciprocate facts force fed to him by other people you are incapable of human thought patterns and you could not possibly fathom that what half people tell you is b.s. they made up the other half is b.s. they thought was the truth grow up and get over you petty scwabbles also grow some bawls and good night



First of all, I have proven you wrong. Second you can't even spell, and you expect me to believe you are in college. Then you resort to this pathetic excuse of a post. Have fun in your 8th grade science class tomorrow.


  • 04.20.2004 6:00 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Its better to use scientific theories and laws to make speculations on how things work, instead of how things came to be (no offense to any of you, though, since your research is very commendable). Examples would include the plasma weapons, slipspace, and to an extent, how Halo works. I've made some theories on these, and they work out pretty well... maybe I'll post them sometime in the future (or maybe not, since some of the people who have been here for a while have already seen them).

And please, PLEASE use punctuation in your posts... its very annoying and sometimes confusing when you don't...

  • 04.20.2004 6:00 PM PDT
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Ok, I will admit that I am only 15 and don't have access to or don't really feal like spending hours of research on creation. When I said that the earliest ancestor of the horse was found in the same time as the modern horse, what I meant is that they were both in the same time period of rock strata, not neccesarily found on the same day, just in the same layer of rock. As a parting statement however, I will say that evolution still has little evidence going for it and even that is highly contraversial. No one will ever beable to prove that it was creation or evolution that started things, so until we die all we can do is choose to believe in whichever and hope that it is right. I myself will choose creation and christianity, aside from the historical documents attesting to Jesus' life, shear impact on the world christianity created, the whole Bible written by many, many different people which all coincides perfectly, aside from the wonders of our universe and that they all work together in synchronization, aside from all that I'd rather not say I believed in evolution and then be wrong on judgement day.

[Edited on 4/20/2004 6:16:10 PM]

  • 04.20.2004 6:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shael
Ok, I will admit that I am only 15 and don't have access to or don't really feal like spending hours of research on creation. When I said that the earliest ancestor of the horse was found in the same time as the modern horse, what I meant is that they were both in the same time period of rock strata, not neccesarily found on the same day, just in the same layer of rock.



From your very first post I could tell that you were a kid. Second you shouldn't say that you have proof of something you have not even studied, nor debunk something that you haven't studied. I can tell you don't know a lot about geology, or biology, and feel no need to go into it deeper however I can, and I will if neccasary. Just to let you know, fossilization takes a little longer than you think, and it would be near impossible to find a fossil of a modern horse. For future reference though, there isn't any proof of creation. Creation is not a science or a theory. It does not have one fact to back it up. Creation simply trys to poke holes in evolution. Evolution on the other hand finds holes and trys to fill them. You can search for days and not find 1 ounce of proof that creation is fact. With evolution it's vice versa.

  • 04.20.2004 6:21 PM PDT
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isnt this thread supposed to be about forerunners?

  • 04.20.2004 6:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shael
As a parting statement however, I will say that evolution still has little evidence going for it and even that is highly contraversial. No one will ever beable to prove that it was creation or evolution that started things, so until we die all we can do is choose to believe in whichever and hope that it is right. I myself will choose creation and christianity, aside from the historical documents attesting to Jesus' life, shear impact on the world christianity created, the whole Bible written by many, many different people which all coincides perfectly, aside from the wonders of our universe and that they all work together in synchronization, aside from all that I'd rather not say I believed in evolution and then be wrong on judgement day.




As a parting statement for you I will again show you where you are wrong. Evolution has so much evidence supporting it that only .15% (not 15, .15) of all scientist disagree with it. I also disagree when you say we will never be able to prove evolution. In fact I believe we will find the truth in my lifetime. Creation on the other hand you can never prove, and you will have to wait until you die to find out if it's true. You have every right to choose creation and christianity, however you can't find one historic document attesting to Jesus's life. The bible is the worst book in the world if you want it to show fact for you. It contradicts itself repeatedly, it doesn't coincide together. I would venture to guess you have never read the bible from beginning to end. I have done so, 3 times. Believe me the bible is a joke, however if disagree that is a whole other debate. One I can promise you don't want to have with me.

[Edited on 4/20/2004 6:32:06 PM]

  • 04.20.2004 6:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: halo guy 343
if relly want to know ask the guy that made the game he/she will know because it will know every thing about halo so game maker if u read this then tell us r the 4runers human we want to know ( i think thay r)
ok i said this and i am right so go to the maker of halo and sit on he's lap and say Mr. halo maker r humans 4runers (i still say thay r) i don't know this

[Edited on 4/20/2004 6:43:12 PM]

  • 04.20.2004 6:40 PM PDT