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This topic has moved here: Subject: Bungie Weekly Update: 6/20/08
  • Subject: Bungie Weekly Update: 6/20/08
Subject: Bungie Weekly Update: 6/20/08

yeah that guy live in my home town... so props for the 806

  • 06.23.2008 12:28 AM PDT

____----- Make Love Not War -----____

nice update

  • 06.23.2008 1:15 AM PDT
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You guys need a translator for every negative post you've received regarding the BR. When people say, "New BR Sux my 7337ness," what they really mean is "Thank you for creating a more balanced game, in which I'm forced to use more than two weapons, memorizing merely two sets of tactics. This balance has taught me much humility, and I have become a more well-rounded player because of it." Seriously, Halo 3 has the most advanced network-based collision detection for an FPS out there, which is why people consider it a sport of sorts; the fact that players are even able to recognize this false BR injustice is a testament to it's greatness.

  • 06.23.2008 5:33 AM PDT
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I see there making new maps. It would be pretty kool if bungie made a map from the very start where the 7 foot tall half ton guy aka spartan 117 masterchief came from.From what Ive read in books he came from a military camp raised for combat. It would be cool if they made a map off of that

  • 06.23.2008 7:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: gt hunter707
Dan Bauer isnt actually crying, he's laughing at you bungie. You guys sure do know how to push away your customers. Well for instances what is the most played game on xbl? Maybe you should listen to your community, instead of mocking them. I support Dan Bauer, and to the community of halo 3 check out there podcast! Remember Bungie we are your customers!


If you had a customer that said to you, "F U GT Hunter707! and F Your company!" because you accidentally gave them a cheeseburger with mustard when they clearly asked for Dijon, is that really a customer you want to have? I would gladly hand them the address and phone numbers of all my competitors at that point.

Daggart

  • 06.23.2008 9:30 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

I should point out, that Dan wasn't slammed for his ideas, he was slammed for his freaking out over an accidental deletion of a thread that was getting locked. You'll notice that we did explain why things are the way they are and why they aren't going to change. Of course, a few of you probably don't like that. That's fine, you're welcome to discuss that. Even Dan.

However, what isn't tolerated is the kind of temper tantrum that Dan had. Especially from someone who is generally a well regarded forum participant; if he expects to be taken seriously he can't lower himself to the status of a common troll.

You guys need to understand that you cannot have it both ways. When you have such direct access to us as developers, you are going to occassionally hear answers you don't like. This is one of those times.

It doesn't mean we "hate the competitive community", it means you think the game should be designed differently than it is (jobs available!). And that's great - we welcome such critical analysis. In the end, though, we have to go with what we think is the right call for every Halo 3 player, not just your corner of it, be it MLG, Big Team Battle, the BR or AR, the pistol, the big maps, the small maps, the CTF, and the straight Slayer guys.

Of course, I know and you know the Internet doesn't work like that. Everybody thinks they speak for the majority, and that they're right and everyone else who disagrees with you is a total moron. So, all I ask for is a little civility and understand that maybe, just maybe, we have good reasons for the way we do things. I'm not saying we don't make mistakes, or that we're always right, or that you're always wrong, but I am saying that we aren't out to screw you, and you shouldn't always assume that. Okay?

...accept the things you cannot change, the courage to change the things you can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Posted by: telengard
Wow, real cool to slam one of your loyal fans Bungie! I think the success has gone to your head. Do you guys think it's cool to single out and make fun of the people who buy and support your product?

~telengard

  • 06.23.2008 10:41 AM PDT
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look at venom vaughn452

  • 06.23.2008 11:17 AM PDT
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the maps arnt worth it
and wtf i thought big cheez14 was a bungie member y doesnt he have recon

  • 06.23.2008 11:22 AM PDT

It's not coincedence that Santa and Satan are spelled with the same letters.

im goinmg to send that guy from the waaaahmbulance a message.
TTU VAPOR, i r gon talk to u and taek u out for ice creem yung man.

  • 06.23.2008 12:33 PM PDT

Campiagn Kill Count :31,745. And growing.

The Revisionaries- One of the greatest screenshot groups on B.net. With 250 members and growing.

Thanks for clearing up on the BR spread.. I'm not exactly satisfied with what you changed now that it's been explained more in depth, because it forces Halo to be a more close range game, but who am I to complain. I can go make my own game.

But, on a less frustrated note, I really like the looks of Cold Storage. I hope the other new maps are just as cool.

I'm gonna go play campiagn now.

  • 06.23.2008 1:37 PM PDT

Uh Guys Another remake? I Know I know you guys want halo 3 to have every one of your games in 1. but seriously.....I feel like the only one whose been in love with all of your maps...except snowbound. Blackout was great for me people just dont know how to appreciate things your other remake was good to but now its like :/ im just tried of it . But i'll swallow my pride and spend my lunch money on your new maps like always :/



Love- A Fan Whose Played Halo 1 Before Halo 2 and 3

P.S. I Can Haz Mythic sign?

  • 06.23.2008 2:14 PM PDT
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lukems and shishka are losers........

you broke the BR, i hate bungie. come out with an update that fixes it and i wont hate you as much. an all dominate weapon cant really exist, all weapons are different and they all do different things but the halo 2 BR was a good balance weather you liked it or not. it had to be in skillful hands to be as dominate as you claim, and if everyone in the game has a good BR then the game is once again balanced. of coarse when there is a nub like lukems playing, then of coarse they will die many times. but that would be the case in any scenario. that is the same principle behind a good team swat game. everyone is given a one hit kill weapon that has a reasonably high rate of fire but (in a good team swat game) there is no one dominate person because everyone is balanced. the halo 2 BR with its ability to 4-5 shot across map forced players to play smart and not run out into the open. making the halo 3 BR less accurate and have a shorter range allows people as bad as bungie employees to run around without fear of death because they broke the most awesome gun in the game. thus, halo 3 will require no skill and you can all go back to running around shooting the -blam!-est gun in the game, the assault rifle.

  • 06.23.2008 2:18 PM PDT

Posted by: MrSiR8642
I see there making new maps. It would be pretty kool if bungie made a map from the very start where the 7 foot tall half ton guy aka spartan 117 masterchief came from.From what Ive read in books he came from a military camp raised for combat. It would be cool if they made a map off of that
They Did Its Called The Pit...... Sorry For Double Post.

  • 06.23.2008 2:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: MrSiR8642
I see there making new maps. It would be pretty kool if bungie made a map from the very start where the 7 foot tall half ton guy aka spartan 117 masterchief came from.From what Ive read in books he came from a military camp raised for combat. It would be cool if they made a map off of that


That sounds pretty interesting. Going back to where it all began right?

  • 06.23.2008 2:47 PM PDT

wanna bet?

cold storage looks awesome!

  • 06.23.2008 3:40 PM PDT

I tried to sign my signature here but the pen busted off in my screen.
:(

Cold Storage! Yesssssss! (said in a Napoleon Dynamite voice) I have no idea what other maps you guys are planning but I hope to see a blank slate type of map like Foundry but on a much larger scale.

  • 06.23.2008 5:37 PM PDT

Posted by: Achronos
I should point out, that Dan wasn't slammed for his ideas, he was slammed for his freaking out over an accidental deletion of a thread that was getting locked. You'll notice that we did explain why things are the way they are and why they aren't going to change. Of course, a few of you probably don't like that. That's fine, you're welcome to discuss that. Even Dan.

However, what isn't tolerated is the kind of temper tantrum that Dan had. Especially from someone who is generally a well regarded forum participant; if he expects to be taken seriously he can't lower himself to the status of a common troll.

You guys need to understand that you cannot have it both ways. When you have such direct access to us as developers, you are going to occassionally hear answers you don't like. This is one of those times.


Of course, I know and you know the Internet doesn't work like that. Everybody thinks they speak for the majority, and that they're right and everyone else who disagrees with you is a total moron. So, all I ask for is a little civility and understand that maybe, just maybe, we have good reasons for the way we do things. I'm not saying we don't make mistakes, or that we're always right, or that you're always wrong, but I am saying that we aren't out to screw you, and you shouldn't always assume that. Okay?

...accept the things you cannot change, the courage to change the things you can, and the wisdom to know the difference.


Achronos makes good points on the following:
A: We sometimes get answers from the developers we don't like, and we have to accept. I personally have no opinion about the BR, but for example it was pointed in a thread I created that it wasn't possible to ban Elites in Team Swat because of the problems. It was not the answer I would of liked, but, hey they did answer my question . Thats better than nothing.

B. Going crazy like Dan did, and I'm guilty of it too at some points, does lower your credibility.

C: Achronos admits they make mistakes. A change made in gameplay that may anger a MLG player but improves the gameplay for a Team Swat is unavoidable, but for a greater good.

The only thing I ask for is accountability, and they do give us a lot of that. Things that are bungie controlled (I.E. playlists) should be open to discussion, and things we know are not Bungie controlled (I.E. Lag, DLC prices) should be labeled as such. I expect the company to do as much as possible, in financial and legal reason, to assist us players. I'll buy new maps sure, but don't force them on me for an example.


  • 06.23.2008 6:37 PM PDT
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If there's a BR, there's a way. Unless it's an assault rifle. Then you straight up lose. Doesn't matter how far they are, they'll lag, and kill you. The AR always wins.

Posted by: Achronos
However, what isn't tolerated is the kind of temper tantrum that Dan had. Especially from someone who is generally a well regarded forum participant; if he expects to be taken seriously he can't lower himself to the status of a common troll.

Since when have B.Net admins been allowed to assume they have the power or authority to deem what is considered trolling on the MLG forums?

Let it sink in a minute, if you will. Not only are you posting the whambulance article from a forum not your own, you assume he's the only one who wants the game to be as competitive as it can be, freak out about it.

A somewhat ignorant claim, in my opinion.

I agree that the change in the BR's technical aspects was proper to make it fit with the workings of Halo 3, and that it functions as it is intended. That doesn't mean I'm still not going to have multiple WTF moments when I watch my reticule rest near an elites neck, only to have the margin of error on my shots force the bullets everywhere except in his head.

To see exactly what I mean by that, please view Real Men of Genius on the mlg gameroom. That's basically our opinion. Regardless of whether or not you view it as childish to argue about something that works as it should, or about something we have no control over, we're simply venting our frustration that what we once considered a virtually perfect weapon very much less useful. (Please don't use the argument that you see rants and uneducated posts, the community's view could easily be explained by any senior member in a non-demeaning manner, don't judge based on some person trying to make a scene.)

Even if the Halo 2 Battle Rifle was far too lethal, as was the Halo: Combat Evolved pistol, a lot more people aware of competitive games and what makes them as such would consider them superior games.

This is also why matchmaking was implemented, so average players wouldn't get destroyed by, oh, let's say Final Boss, in matchmaking. If the players are good enough to master a weapon to the extent that the H1 pistol and H2 BR were, it isn't like a secret lock, I'll use recon as an example, had to be turned. Anyone could get that good with the weapons, it wasn't like some deus ex machina figure stepped in to make our xbox's or halo discs different.

Dan's frustration with seeing an entire thread deleted, albeit accidental, seems warranted considering his already high level of frustration with wanting a competitive weapon like the H2 BR, and being given a weapon with a degree of randomness that leads to many WTF moments. (Too many, in my opinion, even though I agree with the belief why this is the case)

  • 06.23.2008 11:50 PM PDT
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Thanks for the 1 vs 1 playlist bungie!!(NVM ITS REMOVED ALREADY)

NO I WILL NOT JOIN YOUR GROUP IF YOU ASK ME TO

Posted by: DavidRE69
lukems and shishka are losers........

you broke the BR, i hate bungie. come out with an update that fixes it and i wont hate you as much.


Hate is a strong word. Do you really hate the people that made your favorite video game?


But really bungie, you didn't have to do anything to the BR, it was just fine in halo 2.. I like how you toned down the auto aim in halo 3, but the BR should have stayed a hit scan weapon IMO.

  • 06.24.2008 12:08 AM PDT
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Dan91 was an idiot who got what he deserved, i dont care what the mlg rules say or how bungie broke them, because without halo, the mlg probably wouldnt be going on, considering most of the games they play have to do with halo, and besides, lets just drop the dan thing, he messed with luke, so luke had some fun with him ^^, i laughed.

  • 06.24.2008 2:44 AM PDT

John Hancock

First!

  • 06.24.2008 8:08 AM PDT

I remember Chill Out from Halo 1. I always liked that map Im sure Cold Storage will be cool.

  • 06.24.2008 8:34 AM PDT

Member of the Spirits of Fire. UNSCspiritsoffire.com

you freaked me out for a second, I just finished grade 11 math, and we did trigonometric functions...exponentials...sinusoidal...oh god...they haunt my dreams. I definitely enjoyed the update, I am ashamed to admit that tuesdays through thursdays are agonizing for me, since I come on Bnet everyday... So having good updates makes the week worthwhile.

P.S. I WANT TO SEE SOME HUMPDAYS!

  • 06.24.2008 9:00 AM PDT

Email : Scottyownsu@gmail.com
MSN: Itchcraft@hotmail.com

Did I get my facts straight on this thread that stosh locked?

Ok, if you people actually read the entire Weekly Update you would Realize that there is a good reason for Bungie not taking your suggestions and changing back the BR. In Halo 2 the Battle Riffle Would beat out every weapon, because it is good at close range, medium range
and long range. In halo 3 the design team wanted it to be fair, because it was realized in Halo 2 that it is too good. So for halo 3 they wanted things more balanced (in my opinion). So they Gave it less power at long and short range, making it the still the best medium range weapon (my opinion).

This is What I think you should do:

For all of the people that whining they probably want the Halo 2 BR back. And those people who are whining about wanting the Halo 2 BR had to get used to the Halo 2 BR by Playing Halo 2? And Halo 2 and Halo 3 are two Different Games within the same series. You if you are Whining 7bout the BR it is your fault for switching to a new game. If you want the halo 2 BR than play halo 2. It is that simple. And Different games are meant to be different, so they will have differences, the changes in the Battle Riffle are just one of the many changes between the games in the Halo Series. And like any other new game you start playing, you aren't going to be the best at it when you start, so you just have to play Halo 3 with the Battle Riffle at Medium Range the way it is meant to be used in HALO 3, not the way it was used in halo 2. Also like in any other new game you start to play, you have to play and practice to get good at it. The same thing goes for the BR. So just get used to it and practice with it at medium range the way it it said the be used at.

Shorter Version for the People that Still Don't Understand:

The people whining got used to the halo 2 br when they played halo 2 so just get used to the halo 3 br now that you know how to use it. You guys are practically blaming Bungie for making a weapon in the game you play.

Another Argument

They people whining / complaining usually claim to be MLG. If they are MLG they should be able to get a kill with almost any weapon nonetheless. So they should also be able to get a kill with the halo 3 BR. So you are just another poser if you claim to be MLG and are still whining about the halo 3 BR because you cant get a kill with it even though you claim to be MLG.

Another Argument:

Most of the people that also whine about wanting the Halo 2 BR back also say "Bungie Never Takes Suggestions?" Haven't anybody read the Code of Conduct : You have no rights, Play nice. Theres one point of this. But Bungie actually does take suggestions such as. The melee glitch, Griffball Double Exp Weekends, Team Snipers Double Exp Weekends, Bungie.Net Avatars, Bungie.net User Skins, Bungie.net Themes. And many more things that Bungie gets from suggestions.. You guys are too busy wanting an "Ulimate Weapon". Think about that... Now that you know the facts behind the Halo 2 Br you know it is good at any range making it unbeatable. Think of Bungie's Point of View, Somebody is saying. "Can we have the Halo 2 Br back so we can an unbeatable weapon??" Think about it. Now don't tell me that it sounds a little stupid. And Yes They do take suggestions.

Posted by: Timtaztix
I don't want the BR to be accurate I want it to be consistent. Sometimes it shoots differently than an opponent's, and this makes luck a factor. Halo 3 should be about skill, not luck. Don't flame me until you've read everything.

Bungie's excuse for not "fixing" the BR is that they don't want the BR to become the all-powerful Godly weapon that it was in Halo 2.

The BR in Halo 2 was Godly because:
-Button combos
-Tight spread
-The BR was a hitscan weapon
-The BR was extremely consistent

In Halo 3, there are no button combos, there is a huge spread, it is inconsistent, and it is not a hitscan weapon. Obviously, the BR is a lot less effective now than it was in Halo 2.

Bungie apparently thinks that we request the BR to be returned to its former state from Halo 2. No Bungie, not at all. You have misunderstood what the main problem is.

The BR is ridiculously inconsistent

Leave the spread as is, just take away the random tendencies! The problem is that sometimes my BR has an accurate burst, and sometimes it has an inaccurate burst. What if I'm in a 1-on-1 BR fight, and my BR shoots randomly wider and his shoots randomly tighter. My opponent will win the fight not because of his aiming skills, but because his shot more accurately than mine. Even though my reticule was on his head, and his was on mine, I lose the fight because of the random tendencies.

So, in conclusion, I suggest that Bungie removes the random tendencies of the BR's burst. This means that:

-It will still have a wide spread
-It will still not be a hitscan weapon (You must still lead shots)
-Still no button combos
-Consistent! This is the only change...making the burst consistent. This way, the only advantage one player will have over another is skill. Luck should not be a factor in a competitive game.

This way the BR is still not accurate enough to snipe, and not accurate enough to guarantee a perfect 4-shot every time...but it will remain this way for everyone and not just the lucky will win.

If everyone's BR performs the same, every time, even if the spread isn't perfect, it is a balanced weapon. Right now the winner of a BR fight depends on lucky spread, and I want the winner to rely on skill. Not luck.

Post here if you agree with me, and be mature about it. No flaming unless you've read the entire post.


^^^^^

Argument:

In this statement the OP has all of the Halo 2 facts completely correct. But think about it, Yes, it is was completely consistent. And if that is what you are asking for in halo 3 then it would still be the Ultimate weapon. Think about it. What other weapon is completely consistent in Halo 3 Besides the Spartan Laser and Sniper Riffle (Said by Luke)? AR Bullets Fly everywhere. Needlers fly off anywhere, Rockets can be shot off by an explosion, Spikers don't lock on, Shotguns shoot multiple bullets. I really cannot think of another weapon that is completely consistent in hitting all of its shots. I also Think you may be exaggerating when you say ridiculously because if I am correct on my math and I read the many math equations correctly by JonnyOthan then only one one the 3 bullets is going to be inaccurate out of the three. You also talk about a 1 vs 1 BR duel. Think about this situation too. Once again if I am correct on reading the math equations then one out of the three bullets will not hit. So if you think about that there is a 66.7% (Rounded) change that it will be accurate and a 34.3% chance that one bullet out of the 3 will miss. That is not even a 50% chance! Which brings me to the Final facts of this argument that Only two weapons (that I'm 100% sure on) are 100% accurate. So why should the BR? This question brings us the Real Life Sniper vs the Real Life Battle Riffle. In Real life not every BR weapon is going to hit the exact target. A real life Sniper bullet will hit the exact target. So that equation is correct. So what is so what is so bad about a 34.3% chance of having 1 bullet miss when almost every other weapon will do the same or worse. The last thing in this argument, in a 1 on 1 br duel you will most likley to have the same outcome for both players.

(I know I probably got some facts wrong in there but C'mon you gotta admit that is had to argue against!)

  • 06.24.2008 9:30 AM PDT

DEEP NNN = Depends

Clan 2old2pwn on 2old2play.

Don't let yesterday use up too much of today.

Is it possible for Bungie to make changes to the code (net code?) which is causing bullets to be dropped and subsequently returned. If yes, is it reasonable to do so? If fixed would it change the outcome of an attack?

Is it possible for Bungie to return the BR to it's Halo 2 capabilities? If yes, is it reasonable to do so?

I'm not asking for change since I don't believe it will affect my level of game play or enjoyment. Sometimes people just want to know if a thing can be changed. If it can't, they can move on to another discussion.

  • 06.24.2008 12:28 PM PDT