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This topic has moved here: Subject: Bungie Weekly Update: 6/20/08
  • Subject: Bungie Weekly Update: 6/20/08
Subject: Bungie Weekly Update: 6/20/08

"Please, don't shake the lightbulb." -Sgt.Johnson

yay i found the discuss button!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOHOO finally

  • 06.21.2008 8:37 AM PDT
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I'm your huckleberry.

Posted by: Hitzel
I'm not at all satisfied with the BR update.

The BR is still inconsistent and frustrating to use. Knowing why doesn't stop it from being inconsistent and frustrating to use. In fact, knowing it's random by design makes it worse because now I can blame nothing but the game when I get unfairly out-BR'd.

Also, what happened to this:

Posted by John Howard, Halo 1 lead designer:
[22:08] [JohnHoward:] The Halo 1 pistol wasn't a mistake...
[22:08] [JohnHoward:] It was also intended to be the ultimate hold out weapon...
[22:09] [JohnHoward:] I always believe that balance is about giving each weapon / ability / whatever it's own perfect situation.
(Taken from Shadowrun Launch Party IRC Chat)

Why can't the starting weapon be used as an all-around tool at all ranges, while all other weapons do their specific jobs better compared to that one base weapon? This inherently balances the game and gives each and every weapon a unique and distinct purpose.

Even if H3 has too many weapons to the point where some weapons are clones of each other (it's like that anyway, so it wouldn't create a new problem), it still creates an environment where you spawn with something that feels powerful, reliable and fun to use without taking away from the effectiveness of all the other weapons. You can still appeal to the casual base that way without frustrating the fans and veteran players.

In my strong, yet modest and thought out opinion, Halo 3's weapon sandbox design is flawed.


Wow, I really cannot agree more with you and JohnHoward. Spot on. The idea that a reliable BR will somehow spoil the balance is ludicrous. There *is* no balance right now since the game is so lopsided towards close quarters combat.

Close Quarters
Assault Rifle
Melee
SMG
Plasma Rifle
Plasma Pistol
Sword
Shotgun
Mauler
Brute Spiker
Hammer
Pistol
Rocket Lawn Chair lololololololol

Mid Range
BR
Carbine (on few maps)

Long Range
Sniper Rifle
Spartan Laser (on few maps)
Beam Rifle (on few maps)

Since there are no hitscan weapons, is it possible that this "balance" decision was made because the networking code couldn't handle anything beyond CQC? I wonder. Perhaps BTB wouldn't be a complete lagfest if the BR was converted to a hitscan weapon again.

[Edited on 06.21.2008 8:47 AM PDT]

  • 06.21.2008 8:44 AM PDT

my head hurts from reading that entire section on battle rifle bullets....it really hurts.

before I go get an asprin and take a nap, I must say "wowzerz" to Cold Storage. Also... OMGTANKFORMINGREENCANISTER!!!1!!!ONE!

  • 06.21.2008 9:19 AM PDT
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Cool! The map looks fun...and looks perfect for machinama.

  • 06.21.2008 9:21 AM PDT

My Blogfolio | Twitter |
-------------------
Posted by: Yoozel
Over at HFCS we're constantly hard...

Wait...
What?

Posted by: Warp2
Since there are no hitscan weapons, is it possible that this "balance" decision was made because the networking code couldn't handle anything beyond CQC? I wonder. Perhaps BTB wouldn't be a complete lagfest if the BR was converted to a hitscan weapon again.

Having hitscan or not has no effect on the latency of the game, player global location and bandwidth does.

I believe that the Halo 3 BR is much better than the Halo 2 BR. Not only is it more realistic to an actual gun in both it's spread and travel distance times, but it gives it limitations compared to other weapons. It can be defeated in close range by an Assault rifle, and at long range by snipers and splazers, yet it has a strong footing in mid-range battle.

  • 06.21.2008 9:37 AM PDT

all i have to say is, duel weild with spikers is unstoppable! i love those things

  • 06.21.2008 9:44 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Warp2
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I'm your huckleberry.

Posted by: The Freik
Posted by: Warp2
Since there are no hitscan weapons, is it possible that this "balance" decision was made because the networking code couldn't handle anything beyond CQC? I wonder. Perhaps BTB wouldn't be a complete lagfest if the BR was converted to a hitscan weapon again.

Having hitscan or not has no effect on the latency of the game, player global location and bandwidth does.


Individual realtime bullets require more data to be transmitted per shot. This may be a negligible increase and you may be correct that reverting the BR to hitscan will not improve the Halo 3 lag problem, but it certainly is not out of the question.

As a proponent of the BR fix said on another forum recently:


Halo 2 was less laggy then Halo 3 is. I can buy that because it's an older game and not quite the graphical powerhouse that Halo 3 is. But when a game like COD4 can offer better graphics, more players, lack of any bogus "push to talk" feature (so, free chat between all players at all times), and STILL come out lag-free with only a few hiccups here and there just upsets me.


Halo 3's random BR + its laggy network design makes the game frustratingly inconsistent and takes away from what could be the best XBL multiplayer experience around. Of course, that's just my opinion.

  • 06.21.2008 10:18 AM PDT

That was an interesting read, we got an inside view about the BR and how programming works. It's not easy to compress the dynamics into a readable article like that, so that was well done. I know that Dan kid at the end was pretty vocal about the BR's flaws. I still don't fully understand, basically because I'm not a computer programmer. In that respect, I have to trust in Bungie that they know what their doing.

I thought the update did ignore the glaring repeated requests to Seperate Team Swat objectives into its own category. I think the numbers of veto's on objective swat games should be obvious enough to Bungie that Swat Players just want to play Swat.

There's a great thread here http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=22280722

That thread discusses how the problem with Elites in Team Swat can be corrected. Althought the true problem of the behind the head shooting issue probably cannot ever be corrected, I thought this post gave Bungie a good "How To" solution. Bungie has already stated it cannot control player model in the games themselves, so a tweak like this could work.

Team Ranked Snipers is far overdue. I would be massively dissappointed in Bungie if they pull the "Buy the new maps, get Team Snipers" move like with Swat. MS can set the price and release details, but thats something Bungie can control.

New map looks good, and the progression has been good. Rat's nest, IMO, is terrible. But the Standoff, Ghost Town and blackout shows improvement. Remakes are fine in my book.

Thanks.

  • 06.21.2008 10:58 AM PDT

Real Custom Games: in your base, steelin your flagz.
The Off Topic Posters: taking advantage of your goat since 2006
Posted by: Jeremiah
Whether it's superbouncing or interrupting weapon animations, just because we don't personally ban you for it doesn't mean it isn't cheating and extremely poor sportsmanship.

The reasons for this are obvious – there is no designed one-weapon-to-rule-them-all in Halo 3 and that is a decision made by design to encourage all of the aspects of the sandbox to be used in gameplay.
If you guys encourage all aspects of the sandbox to be used, and if the sentinel beam is a part of the sandbox, then why don't we ever see it in the maps? It's easily one of the cooler weapons in the game, yet you guys shy away from it.



[Edited on 06.21.2008 11:08 AM PDT]

  • 06.21.2008 11:08 AM PDT

Don't ask about the name-- it's a long story

I have no doubt that the person who called the whambulance was a little kid. He completely misrepresented all of us Houstonians. And Texas.

  • 06.21.2008 11:47 AM PDT

Save the Dates

August 29-31, 2008, here in Seattle. Be there. We will be.


7/7…
… is 17 days away.
I live near Seattle and it looks like I am going to have to make an appearance. I can't wait for Bungie day, something tells me we the fans are going to get spoiled. And "Cold Storage" shots look like a Flood Containment Facility, cool (I didn't play the Halo: CE multiplayer much, shame on me).

  • 06.21.2008 11:50 AM PDT

Lurking like a baws. Totally. It's like totally important if I post because I barely post.

...

WHO EVEN LOOKS AT SIGNATURES ON BUNGIE.NET ANYWAY???

omg there is a flood in the map!

  • 06.21.2008 12:03 PM PDT

Forum Rules for those who care to know what they are.

"Bs: Blame stosh for all of your BS!"

This is cool. It keeps every complainer about the BR spread's mouth shut, gives a good explanation, shows some stuff about Cold Storage, and has the best ending ever made alive. Good job Bungie. :)

  • 06.21.2008 12:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: Middle Finger U
I think it's a tad f'd up you guys did that Whambulance thing and had the guy's name out to the public. Usually it's an anonymous thing.

You guys even screeshotted his signature which had his gamertag and everything.

It's just a tad f'd up..
I agree.

  • 06.21.2008 12:21 PM PDT

Did you know? "U R GARBAGE!" Use the Post Game Lobby Carnage Report to send hateful messages to your opponents! "Oh, there you are!"

Posted by: CanadianMooser
Posted by: Middle Finger U
I think it's a tad f'd up you guys did that Whambulance thing and had the guy's name out to the public. Usually it's an anonymous thing.

You guys even screeshotted his signature which had his gamertag and everything.

It's just a tad f'd up..
I agree.


why? because it messed up the anonymity of acting like an ass on the internet?

[Edited on 06.21.2008 12:34 PM PDT]

  • 06.21.2008 12:33 PM PDT
Subject: Halo 2 Vs Halo 3
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  • Exalted Heroic Member

J.Naisby

Why dont you put a poll up to see what game would win Halo 2 or Halo 3. The gameplay in Halo 2 was a hell of a lot better then Halo 3, Halo 2 was a fast, fun and smooth game to play. Halo will never be the same because of game designs making the game easier for noobs to play, and i think will get even more bad on each game, because the companys see where the money is. All people want for Halo is Halo 2 + not Halo 3 with a lot of stuff taken out and a -blam!- Sniper and BR.

You could compare CSS to H2 before but now you cant see nothing.

Plus bring back the big xbox controllers they rule.

  • 06.21.2008 12:39 PM PDT
Subject: Bungie Weekly Update: 6/20/08

A witty signature you say ! ? well at the moment i have nothing witty that springs to mind, so sory..................nope still nothing.......

love the look of the new map, the thing on the ceiling, the eye like thing looks like some kind of AI monitoring the facility, looks very cool, the interior looks quite different to what we’ve scene in forerunner architecture in halo 3 in terms of art direction, very sterile looking reminds me of some of the interior spaces were the flood were held in that forerunner station on the arbiter mission in halo 2, I love the specimen tube containing the pure form to, that’s such a cool touch, looks awesome

[Edited on 06.21.2008 1:00 PM PDT]

  • 06.21.2008 12:58 PM PDT

Owners of the Katana: A place for those who have a Katana or over 1000GS in Halo 3.

Posted by: SHADOW167
Somewhere out there... in an alternate reality... Marty decided to stay in the ad jingle business, bringing about an age of amazingly orchestrated Pampers commercials.

I may seem like a jerk for saying this, but my favourite part was the DanBauer part.

Yeah, that's right :S!

  • 06.21.2008 1:03 PM PDT

▀▄Halo2, Halo3, Forge, Slayer, Snipers, BR's...▄▀ ▄
▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀SAS Halo3▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄

Posted by: YKantBobReed
Am I just a doof, or was there no reply button here for a while?


Nope Lukems locked it (Thank you Luke) anyways nice psot I didn't get to reply earlier because of the lock though. Thank you for the Br input.

  • 06.21.2008 1:16 PM PDT

Missing the headshot from across Last Resort: 1 sniper round, -1 kill.
Having that round ricochet 3 times before coming straight back through my head: Priceless.

Sweet screenshots. I like the incorporation of this kind of facility into multiplayer... a Forerunner lab for researching the Flood. The pureform in the glass tube looks positively badass... it reminds me of the old shotgun hallway on Lockout. Btw, is that 343 GS I spy on the ceiling in the 2nd shot?

  • 06.21.2008 1:22 PM PDT
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I miss the all powerfulness of the Halo 2 BR.

The first time I ever picked up a BR in Halo 3 I could tell something was different, the way it fired, the way it hit targets. The only thing I don't like is that it seems inconsistent. It's not uncommon for me to shoot someone once in the head in SWAT and get a kill, but then have it take more than 3 to kill the next guy.

Because of this I have a custom game with extra damage where I vent my rage by BRing people to death.

  • 06.21.2008 1:25 PM PDT

My logic is undeniable.
the.dredwerkz@gmail.com
e-mail me about anything.
Don't send me group invites.

It just annoys me the system still revolves around the host xbox applying damage. The client should determine whether or not it has applied damage. So rather than Client saying "I fired here, did I hit anyone?" It says "I hit this dude, here, kill him."

PS, why did you explain it using degrees not radians?

Weapons are given two values, a minimum deviation and a max deviation, it will randomly fire the bullet between those two numbers, so the minimum for most weapons will be 0 and the max a degree at max. set the two values to the same and your bullets will appear to come out in a perfect circle around your barrel.

[Edited on 06.21.2008 1:29 PM PDT]

  • 06.21.2008 1:25 PM PDT

DANC1N GRUNTS IN MY PANT'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

Wow that just looks amazing! I thought that was concept art untill I loked at it a second time. Ihated the halo1 chill out but looks like I may like this version.

Oh and thats cool with the flood specimen In that crypod thing

  • 06.21.2008 1:28 PM PDT
Subject: Halo 2 Vs Halo 3

Missing the headshot from across Last Resort: 1 sniper round, -1 kill.
Having that round ricochet 3 times before coming straight back through my head: Priceless.

Posted by: SS64
Why dont you put a poll up to see what game would win Halo 2 or Halo 3. The gameplay in Halo 2 was a hell of a lot better then Halo 3, Halo 2 was a fast, fun and smooth game to play. Halo will never be the same because of game designs making the game easier for noobs to play, and i think will get even more bad on each game, because the companys see where the money is. All people want for Halo is Halo 2 + not Halo 3 with a lot of stuff taken out and a -blam!- Sniper and BR.

You could compare CSS to H2 before but now you cant see nothing.

Plus bring back the big xbox controllers they rule.


Wow, I don't even know what to say... Wait a second, yeah I do. You speaking for everyone by saying what "people want for Halo" amuses me to no end. Did you take a nationwide survey or are you just so arrogant and ignorant that you think your own opinions speak for the entire community? Truthfully, the only reliable data available that shows which game people think is "better" is the number of people playing each game online every day... and I believe Halo 3 wins that by a huge margin with something on the order of 50 times as many players as Halo 2. By all means, lets have your little poll and see how it turns out. As many have said before, if you don't like Halo 3, go play Halo 2 and stop cluttering the forums with your poorly thought-out complaints.

  • 06.21.2008 1:33 PM PDT
Subject: Bungie Weekly Update: 6/20/08

nice bungie rofl call the whambulance lol sad another player cracked from ( dun dun dun dunnnn) RECON ARMOR ( dunnnnnnnn)

  • 06.21.2008 2:10 PM PDT