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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
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  • 11.13.2008 9:05 AM PDT

I personally do not feel like the BR is littered with so many problems as many people suggest here. Bungie was faced with a sort of Catch-22 when trying to incorporate weapons like the BR into Halo. First off Halo is not supposed to be a realistic shooter in most respects. Bungie just tried to add in some physical properties from this world into the game so we could relate to them. The BR random spread is just one of these properties to add in a bit of "realism". It personally doesn't seem to effect me much and I have no problem with it. Why hate on Bungie for adding a real physical factor(I know there's more than one) into a game based on Earth(and other places, I know) with humans? Do the physical laws that we know of not apply to their weapons? What physical laws would you(BR design opposers) have them incorporate? Most people don't realize that randomness is just a huge part of life and Bungie just wanted to show that in their game. Here's a little randomness to ponder over: you can never really know where an object is, just predict where it is going to be.

  • 11.13.2008 9:38 AM PDT

Posted by: AkinD23
I personally do not feel like the BR is littered with so many problems as many people suggest here. Bungie was faced with a sort of Catch-22 when trying to incorporate weapons like the BR into Halo. First off Halo is not supposed to be a realistic shooter in most respects. Bungie just tried to add in some physical properties from this world into the game so we could relate to them. The BR random spread is just one of these properties to add in a bit of "realism". It personally doesn't seem to effect me much and I have no problem with it. Why hate on Bungie for adding a real physical factor(I know there's more than one) into a game based on Earth(and other places, I know) with humans? Do the physical laws that we know of not apply to their weapons? What physical laws would you(BR design opposers) have them incorporate? Most people don't realize that randomness is just a huge part of life and Bungie just wanted to show that in their game. Here's a little randomness to ponder over: you can never really know where an object is, just predict where it is going to be.
I'd rather Bungie focus on improving the game, as opposed to them adding a philosophical message about randomness in the form of a bullet spread on the main mid-range weapon in the game.

  • 11.13.2008 10:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: Prodigy117
Trust me I have been finished off at some ridiculous ranges with the AR by not so good players. I have also seen a video posted somewhere on these forums where a player kills a player on the pit from tower to tower with an AR in less than 2 clips. Thats accross the entire map in less than 2 clips! Not using bursts either from what I recall.

I doubt that it's true, but I don't really care, because that scenario will never crop up in Matchmaking and two clips is a lot.

You have to consider the speed at which it is possible to kill someone with the pistol in halo 1. I can hardly remember getting wrecked by an AR ambush in halo 1 (which is a lot of players bread and butter strategy in halo 3) because even if you missed a couple of shots with the pistol you could still kill them and they couldn't rely on beating you down from silly distances either. The map design also meant that AR rushing was far less effective. Melee is near useless in halo 1 and grenades can't be used like they can in halo 3 due to longer fuse times, you can't just skill-lessly spam them round every corner so your opponent can't avoid them and is a one-shot for the easy burst headshot.
At this point I'm going to question whether you even played Halo 1 (not PC, for Xbox).

The Assault Rifle is in fact more powerful in Halo CE. You could not rely on the Pistol close range. Assault Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Plasma Rifle, and Shotgun are significantly stronger in Halo 1 than 3; they did more damage and the plasma weaponry had a stun effect. If you tried using the Pistol close range against someone with one of those weapons you were screwed. It's pretty much the same scenario today.

As for map design... Did you seriously only play Blood Gulch, or something? Pretty much every map is great for close range combat or has sections of the map (like the tunnels on Sidewinder) that suited CQB well. No one rushes with an Assault Rifle, by the way, because they don't have to in order to get a kill.

Useless melee? Just because it's less powerful and you have to actually aim it, doesn't make it useless.

Grenade spamming? Ever heard of 'nade points'? I doubt it; and you also seem to be forgetting that you can carry only half the grenades in Halo 3 that you can in Halo 1.

Let me clarify, what I mean is that I would like to increase the aiming skill gap where the skill is at now, medium to long range. I am aware this would have little effect at close range. Increasing the consistency and range of the BR would do this, I would also like to see some reduction in auto-aim to go along with this. Ideally the BR would be single shot.
That's great. But so far you seem to be favoring making the BR the one weapon to rule them all, judging from your faulty recollection of Halo 1 and how you think your inaccurate account of the M6D should be brought back.

If the M6D really was the way you described (great at close range, medium range, and long range) then I wouldn't want it back and Halo 1 wouldn't have been that good. But thankfully that isn't how things really are.

  • 11.13.2008 12:58 PM PDT
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breezy... dude seriosly no one really cares about this any more. Out of 101 pages 50 or so are you making fun of other people or wasting time pointlessly arguing about something thats never going to change...... if you want the br to change play custom games with none on/in the game

  • 11.13.2008 1:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shadow Wolf7347
breezy... dude seriosly no one really cares about this any more.

No one really cares what you have to say. So why don't you stop trolling?

  • 11.13.2008 1:09 PM PDT
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rewording what i just said isnt a very good insult dude

[Edited on 11.13.2008 1:41 PM PST]

  • 11.13.2008 1:36 PM PDT
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Wow, this topic is so pointless that the moderators haven't even checked in to see how stupid everyone's being.

Bungie knows more about the BR than you do. They invented it. 'Nuff said.

  • 11.13.2008 4:00 PM PDT

Posted by: Breezy131
I doubt that it's true, but I don't really care, because that scenario will never crop up in Matchmaking and two clips is a lot.


It just shouldn't have that sort of range it's stupid. 5 clips would be sensible. The weapon barely needs to be aimed at all I don't know why your arguing about it, it's a poor weapon.

At this point I'm going to question whether you even played Halo 1 (not PC, for Xbox).

The Assault Rifle is in fact more powerful in Halo CE. You could not rely on the Pistol close range. Assault Rifle, Plasma Pistol, Plasma Rifle, and Shotgun are significantly stronger in Halo 1 than 3; they did more damage and the plasma weaponry had a stun effect. If you tried using the Pistol close range against someone with one of those weapons you were screwed. It's pretty much the same scenario today.


I will not say I played the game competitively but I did play it for a good year with my brother and friends on a regular basis. Primarily we played FFA but we also played some team games. I think this is reasonable enough experience to comment on the game.

The pistol was obviously at a disadvantage close range but it was certainly possible to win with it. Relative to the BR it was much more powerful at close range. The situation you often get in halo 3 is someone charging with an AR short-mid range from your blindspot and if you don't 4 shot them straight way there is a high probability you will die. This just would not happen in halo 1 plus from what I recall the AR was actually a bit harder to aim. All I am pointing out is that the balance has shifted in halo 3 so that there is more emphasis on CQB and the close range weapons are more powerful and easier to use in relation to the mid range weapon, surely you won't attempt to argue this. Yes the plasma rifle stunned players but it did take a bit of skill not like the halo 3 AR beatdown combo.

If you watch some MLG Halo 1 you will see that they don't use the AR much at all even though it is allowed because its not that effective, they do use the plasma rifle and shotgun a bit but they have to play smart to have any success with them.

As for map design... Did you seriously only play Blood Gulch, or something? Pretty much every map is great for close range combat or has sections of the map (like the tunnels on Sidewinder) that suited CQB well. No one rushes with an Assault Rifle, by the way, because they don't have to in order to get a kill.

Useless melee? Just because it's less powerful and you have to actually aim it, doesn't make it useless.

Grenade spamming? Ever heard of 'nade points'? I doubt it; and you also seem to be forgetting that you can carry only half the grenades in Halo 3 that you can in Halo 1.


Primarily Hang em High but we played a variety of maps and rarely did I have an experience where players whored the AR with little skill like they do in halo 3 and have much success.

The melee in halo 1 was not that powerful, even double melee I don't think was that powerful but again, skillful. There was hardly any lunge and as you say you have to aim it so therefore it is far less useful when it comes to close combat making shooting much more powerful.

In halo 3 there is lots of nade spamming and as there is such a short fuse time it doesn't take much skill, especially when you bounce them off the floor into rooms so they explode in mid-air, grenades are way overused and under-skilled in halo 3. You just can't approach every situation in halo 1 like this because usually your opponent can avoid the grenades. You pick up grenades from spawn points and dead bodies constantly in halo 3 there is no shortage. I have heard of nade points but I didn't know of the term when I played halo 1 because of the lack of a broad player base. Regardless nades in halo 3 is 90% common sense and does not require this knowledge.

That's great. But so far you seem to be favoring making the BR the one weapon to rule them all, judging from your faulty recollection of Halo 1 and how you think your inaccurate account of the M6D should be brought back.

No my suggestions would not affect close range functionality but would increase consistency at mid range and effectiveness at long range providing the player has the skill to use it to its potential.

If the M6D really was the way you described (great at close range, medium range, and long range) then I wouldn't want it back and Halo 1 wouldn't have been that good. But thankfully that isn't how things really are.

I don't think I described it as great at close range, If I did what I meant was powerful enough to have a chance. It was good at medium and long range.

  • 11.13.2008 4:58 PM PDT

The next person to assume I am talking about ranked, do us all a favor and look at what I play!

WOW, over 100 pages!
Everyone also says, the M6D or the Halo 2 BR were awesome, because they don't deal with them now. They were both rediculously overpowered.

  • 11.13.2008 5:22 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: mortabunt
WOW, over 100 pages!
Everyone also says, the M6D or the Halo 2 BR were awesome, because they don't deal with them now. They were both rediculously overpowered.


Thanks for informative reply. ;)

  • 11.13.2008 5:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Prodigy117
It just shouldn't have that sort of range it's stupid. 5 clips would be sensible. The weapon barely needs to be aimed at all I don't know why your arguing about it, it's a poor weapon.

According to whom? That scenario will never happen so it isn't overpowered. It's a poor weapon to start with, IMO, but not a poor weapon in and of itself.

The pistol was obviously at a disadvantage close range but it was certainly possible to win with it. Relative to the BR it was much more powerful at close range. The situation you often get in halo 3 is someone charging with an AR short-mid range from your blindspot and if you don't 4 shot them straight way there is a high probability you will die. This just would not happen in halo 1 plus from what I recall the AR was actually a bit harder to aim. All I am pointing out is that the balance has shifted in halo 3 so that there is more emphasis on CQB and the close range weapons are more powerful and easier to use in relation to the mid range weapon, surely you won't attempt to argue this. Yes the plasma rifle stunned players but it did take a bit of skill not like the halo 3 AR beatdown combo.
It's still possible to win with the BR - it just requires a melee or grenade.

And if someone charged you from your blind spot in Halo 1 with an Assault Rifle, you would still die. It wasn't as accurate and the melee required players to aim but it is much more powerful than in Halo 3.

But I do agree the focus has shifted towards CQB. Odd; you'd think that with latency affected environments (XBL) Bungie would have kept focus on range combat since there's usually a big enough difference between two players' respective aim ability to mask the lag, instead of double beat downs and Sword clashes.

If you watch some MLG Halo 1 you will see that they don't use the AR much at all even though it is allowed because its not that effective, they do use the plasma rifle and shotgun a bit but they have to play smart to have any success with them.
I don't particularly care what MLG does. They are the best of the best and how they play in no way reflects the way most people play. Not in Halo 1 and not in Halo 3.

The melee in halo 1 was not that powerful, even double melee I don't think was that powerful but again, skillful. There was hardly any lunge and as you say you have to aim it so therefore it is far less useful when it comes to close combat making shooting much more powerful.
You did have to get in closer, but it was still present and still important.

In halo 3 there is lots of nade spamming and as there is such a short fuse time it doesn't take much skill, especially when you bounce them off the floor into rooms so they explode in mid-air, grenades are way overused and under-skilled in halo 3. You just can't approach every situation in halo 1 like this because usually your opponent can avoid the grenades. You pick up grenades from spawn points and dead bodies constantly in halo 3 there is no shortage. I have heard of nade points but I didn't know of the term when I played halo 1 because of the lack of a broad player base. Regardless nades in halo 3 is 90% common sense and does not require this knowledge.
Sure there's a lot. But there's more in Halo 1.

No my suggestions would not affect close range functionality but would increase consistency at mid range and effectiveness at long range providing the player has the skill to use it to its potential.
Well, I will agree with you there.

I don't think I described it as great at close range, If I did what I meant was powerful enough to have a chance. It was good at medium and long range.
It certainly seemed that way, but whatever.

Although it wasn't that good long range - at least not reliable.

Posted by: mortabunt
Everyone also says, the M6D or the Halo 2 BR were awesome, because they don't deal with them now. They were both rediculously overpowered.

I can't comment on the Halo 2 BR but I will say that the M6D was not. But for your sake suffice it to say that I'm right and you're wrong since there are people who've participated in this thread before who could argue the point far better than you. And I'd rather waste time arguing with them than with you.

[Edited on 11.13.2008 6:09 PM PST]

  • 11.13.2008 6:09 PM PDT
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or stop wasting time arguing over something that will never be changed? i like that one better

  • 11.13.2008 8:57 PM PDT

We are establishing a squad of Halo 3 vets who are respectful of one another and work well as a team. Teamwork is everything.

2 cents worth of hating on this wack rifle

  • 11.13.2008 9:08 PM PDT

yeah thats the whole point of the "ar" (what i call a**rifles) so little noobs that cant br dont get raped as hard

  • 11.13.2008 9:08 PM PDT
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no ar fills the small range btween the close range massacre we have now and br range

  • 11.14.2008 4:05 PM PDT
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Why can't we put Bungie Cards here?

Isn't this a little old?

  • 11.14.2008 8:01 PM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Posted by: mortabunt
Everyone also says, the M6D or the Halo 2 BR were awesome, because they don't deal with them now. They were both rediculously overpowered.[/quote]
I can't comment on the Halo 2 BR but I will say that the M6D was not. But for your sake suffice it to say that I'm right and you're wrong since there are people who've participated in this thread before who could argue the point far better than you. And I'd rather waste time arguing with them than with you.


I never particularly used the M6D but I can compare the stats in the files if you like, but all data on the BR plus my own experience suggests that it was overpowered, longer range, minimal kickback. It made the Sniper Rifle into a useless piece of junk.

  • 11.15.2008 6:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: Air Sparrow
It made the Sniper Rifle into a useless piece of junk.

What? You've never even played Halo 1 have you.

  • 11.15.2008 6:25 AM PDT

I'm sure there is already a lot of posts like this, but I don't care. I want to get a point across.
Please make sure you read everything in this topic before you post.

In Halo 2, the BR spread was perfect. You didn't have to lead your shots, either. All you had to do was aim for the head and shoot.

In Halo 3, the BR spread is pretty much random. You have to lead you shots. Nothing like Halo 2's BR.

Even though the two games are around the same time, why change the BR?

What, while Master Chief was gone the UNSC started to mess around with the BR?

Bungie, if you were going to make a random BR spread, why didn't you make it in Halo 2? Why wait for the random spread? Halo 3 is supposed to be better than Halo 2, and in most ways, it is.

These games take place in 2552-2553. I think that by then, people will make guns with a perfect spread. If Halo 3 was supposed to be somewhat life-like, don't you think the BR should have a perfect spread?

Don't get me wrong: I love the BR! It's my one of my favorite weapons! But seriously, we're talking about a game that takes place 545 years in the future.

Anyway, thanks Bungie for all of the hard work that you put into this game. I, with many fellow gamers, love Halo 3. I'm not trying to sound like a complainer. All I doing is stating the facts.

  • 11.15.2008 8:04 AM PDT

Carbine Ownz

  • 11.15.2008 10:25 AM PDT
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Why can't we put Bungie Cards here?

Ok the reason they changed the spread was becuase the BR was dominating too much, peopel were using it like a sniper since it was a hitscan weapon (the bullets hit the target instantly). Bungie wanted it to be a mid range weapon and so made the bullets have a travel time and have a spread so it wouldn't be affective at long range.

Personally i think leading is good, but the spread isn't.

  • 11.15.2008 7:56 PM PDT

Posted by: ZWillis95
I'm sure there is already a lot of posts like this, but I don't care. I want to get a point across.
Please make sure you read everything in this topic before you post.

In Halo 2, the BR spread was perfect. You didn't have to lead your shots, either. All you had to do was aim for the head and shoot.

In Halo 3, the BR spread is pretty much random. You have to lead you shots. Nothing like Halo 2's BR.

Even though the two games are around the same time, why change the BR?

What, while Master Chief was gone the UNSC started to mess around with the BR?

Bungie, if you were going to make a random BR spread, why didn't you make it in Halo 2? Why wait for the random spread? Halo 3 is supposed to be better than Halo 2, and in most ways, it is.

These games take place in 2552-2553. I think that by then, people will make guns with a perfect spread. If Halo 3 was supposed to be somewhat life-like, don't you think the BR should have a perfect spread?

Don't get me wrong: I love the BR! It's my one of my favorite weapons! But seriously, we're talking about a game that takes place 545 years in the future.

Anyway, thanks Bungie for all of the hard work that you put into this game. I, with many fellow gamers, love Halo 3. I'm not trying to sound like a complainer. All I doing is stating the facts.


Halo 2 BR-BR55.
Halo 3 BR-BR55HB SR.

So yes they are different guns. So yes the UNSC did mess with it, just as they messed with the M6 pistol series, with the M6D in Halo 1, M6C in Halo 2 and M6G in Halo 3.

There is a logical in-game story reason for a difference in characteristics.

  • 11.16.2008 12:29 AM PDT
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BR should be kept the way it is.
It's short-medium range and long-range if your lucky with the spread.
I think it's the standard weapon for any game, it's awesome.


It's all Pew-pew.

  • 11.16.2008 2:31 AM PDT
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░█▀▀ ░█▀█ ░█ ░█▀▀ ░░█▀▀ ░█▀█ ░█ ░█ ░░░
░█▀▀ ░█▀▀ ░█ ░█ ░░░░█▀▀ ░█▀█ ░█ ░█ ░░░
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Same.

  • 11.16.2008 6:01 AM PDT