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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Dan says that is fair because the pro was in control of his destiny and he chose to go for better accuracy and he just lost because the other guy "got lucky". He sees Halo 3 as a wrong however when the exact same scenario happens. That's the point.


In a situation in SR where two players have SMGs, one is a pro, the other is a scrub, and the scrub decides to just spray for his life, and the pro does all things that he knows are correct, skillful, within his skill range, within his intelligence, tactical thinking, etc....and that scrub manages to pop a bullet onto the pro's head because that's all that was needed....yes, that's okay. Why is that okay? It happens .5% of the time in Shadowrun. It happens .5% of the time in CS. You said yourself that you went online with SR a while back and easily got kills, well good for you, but how do you know who you were playing against? Perhaps you were playing against scrubs? Maybe you were better than them?

I played a lot of CPMA over the summer, it's a Quake 3 mod on the PC, modded for competition and balance, in otherwords it's a complete overhaul of Quake 3's stock settings. Anyway, I go into a pub and play against my friend in a 1v1 duel. We trade kills back and forth, sometimes get a string of 4-5 kills in a row, still...we trade kills. Now he's of better skill than me in Quake because he has more Quake exp than me, but I'm still able to hold my own with him because of my skill and the mistakes he makes, not the game giving me anything at all. There are acts of randomness but they're player-controlled not controlled by the game.

Some random guy rolls into our pub and waits to play the winner of myself and my friend, my friend ends up winning and goes on to play this new guy who just came into the server. My friend gets 2 kills on the guy the entire MATCH! The match was 10 mins long, whoever has the most kills wins. The final score of the match was 64 frags to my friends -5. I repeat -5. Even though my friend got 2 kills positive on the guy somewhere during the game, he still manage to go -5 as the end result. Now...this game is completely balanced, and the reason it is is because my friend hasn't ever played CPMA...he just played reg Quake 3 and then Quake 2 before that. This random guy who comes in has probably been playing CPMA for quite some time, and here's the ticker, that's freaking SKILL when you can win 64 to -5. Now my friend wasn't that great against this guy, but that's besides the point.

Now if the game had some intentional random factor that allowed my friend...the scrub compared to this other guy, get some freebie kills or perhaps some random damage generator on the rockets, or perhaps some other act of intentional randomness put on by the game where my friend could get kills regardless of his lack of skills...would that have been good for the game? No, it would not have.

Facts are though, in Halo 3 because of the BR spread, a player's raw talent no matter how good he is, he will never be able to completely dominate consistently like he should be able to because scrubs will always have the crutch to fall back on because the game gives it to them. I would rather the BR not have ANY randomness at all, and if it needs a .15 degree spread, then so be it...but make it the same exact shot pattern each time that it's fired, that way a skillful player can practice and earn his kills by way of having better talent than the little guy who needs to NOT be playing people way above his skill level. Isn't that what skill-based matchmaking is suppose to do? Would you enjoy going out on the basketball court with NBA pros knowing that you would never stand a chance? So why should better players get shafted out of the deal? When it's pro versus pro in MLG...I see so many pros get robbed of their kills due to BR spread on LAN...on LAN!!!! That isn't right at all. Players cannot control the spread...it's impossible to predict what the spread will be on the BR, it's completely random.

However in SR, players can control their bloom and recieve better shots over a scrub that will probably just spray his heart out and have a .5% chance of actually doing anything remotely good by doing that. Ever play Street Fighter 2? The difference between pros and scrubs on that game is that scrubs just mash buttons, and sure...they'll get some hits in, they might even win a round, but the pro will always dominate 99% of the time. There aren't any crutches for scrubs in SF2, yet you can still play that game casually amongst friends and have just as much fun as pros do playing other pros.



But the thing is, and I know everyone is tired of hearing it, is that the Halo that is played in MM for the most part isn't suppose to be highly "competitive". It's never been that way from the start. It's suppose to give lesser-skilled players a chance against better-skilled opponents.


WHY????? WHY??????? Why should someone be given a chance against better skilled opponents? Why? Why can't it just be scrubs vs scrubs, avg vs avg, and pros vs pros? Since when does it need to be fair for a scrub vs pro in Halo? What business does a scrub have playing against a pro and vice versa unless they're friends and they wanna do that?

By your logic, going back to my Quake 3 CPMA example, my friend should have been given better chances by the GAME to be able to "maybe" defeat the guy who steam rolled him 64 to -5? Thank god CPMA does not do that.


Changing the BR for the entire game would greatly go against that. Players in Halo 2 after the 1.1 patch were forced to use the BR because of how good it is. It simply dominated everything other weapon because of a lot of variables. In Halo 3 players are forced to use the BR because there isn't another option in most cases (since Carbine spawns are rare, as are M6G spawns). Players use the H3 BR not because it's skillful but because they are forced to.


That's actually a subject of flawed game design. See, in Halo CE, I could play a fair game of Pro Team Slayer, which would always be AR/pistol start. This gave balance to the game because whenever I would get killed, I knew that when I respawned I had two tools that would help defend myself from getting spawn killed or spawn camped, that's the AR/Pistol. Also Halo CE used quake-style gameplay mechanics in its weapons on map and powerups on map.

Overshields and Camos typically spawned every 1 mins or 2 mins on a timer....not dictated by who picked it up at a specific time. This gave motivation to always time the powerups and earn them so that you were given an advantage by earning them. It also made it where you couldn't just run around the map dominating with any one weapon, that's why on Prisoner you've got a possible rockets/camo combo on the bottom of the map, with an OS/sniper on the top portion of the map, or just an OS threat in general.

Furthermore, just because you had a pistol/AR start didn't guarantee you anything. If you played chillout against good teams/players, and you didn't bother to get rockets, camo, os, and snipe...you're never going to do any good with just your pistol/AR start. These timers on all these weapons FORCED players to move around the map and control these weapons. I have friends I used to play with that never once let me touch rockets on Chillout...or the OS, and no matter how good my pistol skills were, I was always getting destroyed. Was that imbalanced? Nope, that was fair game. That's not the case though here in Halo 2 or Halo 3.

Halo 2 in a nutshell = duel weilding, and the BR was on accident, patched from that 1.1 patch...it was NEVER suppose to end up the way it did. And yes, if we were to look at H2's core gameplay...the patched BR did ruin the default core of the game which was duel weilding.

Same goes for Halo 3.

Halo 3 = Assault Rifle. There's a tier system in H3 in terms of weapons. When you play default AR starts, your battle is basically to end up with the sniper rifle or the rockets...preferably the sniper rifle because AR spawning scrubs won't be able to do much to you from afar will they? But that's balanced right? Wrong. Bungie basically says that when you pick up a power weapon in Halo 3 you're automatically given the right to a couple of easy freebie kills, and this is due to the fact that players spawn with inadequate protection to defend themselves with.

In Halo CE, just because you had the rockets or the snipe didn't guarantee you were going to be successful with them unless you FORCED the iniative. That is balance. In Halo 3 it's backwards, completely backwards. If I get a sniper rifle on say...Guardian or Construct...depending on where I setup, I will probaby get at least 2-3 freebie kills based purely off the fact that player's spawning with ARs will not be able to do much if anything at all to defend against my long range weapon.

That's what the AR/Pistol did in CE, it defended against close/long-range attacks when players freshly respawned and that was balance.

The days of seeing that kind of gameplay ever again are long gone. It does exist in Shadowrun, but that's only because the same guy who made Halo CE is the one who made Shadowrun. Perhaps Bungie should re-hire that guy for Halo 4? Or wait...they probably wouldn't agree with his decisions of taking out intentional random elements to help out scrubs against pros.

  • 12.16.2008 11:44 AM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Of course I think a single-shot BR would be harder to aim. I think the H3 Magnum is one of the toughest weapons to be good with (I personally think it's harder to be good with the M6G than it is with the Sniper Rifle but that's just me). I actually have wondered why MLG hasn't switch all BR spawn and starts to the M6G. It's a much harder/"skillful" weapon and the range isn't that much more dramatic when comparing the BR unscoped to the M6G. It's too bad that you can't adjust maximum range in custom game options because I think it would make it so the M6G would be the weapon of choice for "competitive" Halo.
~B.B.

I rarely agree with you, BerserkerBarage, but I have been wondering the same thing.

Headshots with a single shot weapon, like the M6G, are much more skillful. Body shots when 5-shotting are easier, since you only need to hit with one bullet. However, the skill involved is when headshotting unshielded opponents, which is harder than with the burst of the BR where only 1 out of 3 bullets must hit.

This is where I believe Bungie made a huge mistake when designing the BR for Halo 2, and then proceeding to make it even worse for Halo 3. Burst fire weapons with a Headshot Bonus DON'T WORK. Well, it doesn't work for Halo where knocking out someone's shield and then following with a headshot is a frequent style of gameplay.

At least Bungie attempted at making the weapon, the BR, harder by widening the spread in order to make 4-shotting harder, or more random in other words. I think their thought process is all wrong, considering the fact that headshots with the BR on unshielded opponents are still extremely easy. To be honest, I think Bungie's widening of the spread has to do with them refusing to give us BR starts (not really sure where the randomness comes into play, since all that does is add inconsistency). That's fine, because not everyone wants to play a fair game. They would much rather feel like they are Pro when they BR or Rocket other AR users, where weapon advantage is the main key to winning.

Going back to my whole point in posting...
I think MLG doesn't use the M6G because of its effective range. From Snipe 2 to TopMid on Guardian, the randomness has a huge impact and becomes somewhat of a guessing game. Some of it can be controlled by scoping in and shooting, believe or not, but I think MLG would rather just increase the damage to decrease the amount of bullets required for a 4sk, thus slightly decreasing the amount of randomness. You just can't simply change the range of the Magnum like you can with the BR. It would've been nice for the most customizable console FPS, Halo 3, to have more customization. Gee, Bungie, what were you thinking?

I really don't see anything wrong with an improvement to the M6G's range in Bungie's next update, but we'll probably see Brutes in MM before we ever see a gameplay patch.

  • 12.16.2008 12:15 PM PDT
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Don't Ask Bungie For Recon

The BR is great no matter how many crazy people you find that say "Stop using a BR u freak its a noob weapon & its for noobs use a AR or Rockets and play halo how MLG play it"

Then they get a barrage of abuse in the form of
"OMG you freak MLG use BRs do you see T-Squared or and MLG pro running aroung shooting a rocket missing and the trying to finish them off with a whole clip of AR i dident think so"

BRs are great if you can't handel that this will happen

  • 12.16.2008 1:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: dan91bauer
And yes, my CS example holds true.
Tell me this, why should I be able to go into a CS pub and instantly start killing people with little to no practice or knowledge of the aiming/shooting in that game?

Because, believe it or not, some of us don't come screaming out of our mother's -blam!- with a copy of CS, 9 months worth of training, a Logitech Keyboard/Mouse and an elitest mindset.
Some of us "weird people" actually have to have a first time with a game, and guess what - some of us are going to be able to kill you on that first try thanks to the wonders of luck.
Why should I spend 6 months learning a game before I'm actually allowed to play it?
Oh, wait, because this is serious business. Sorry, keep forgetting that.

Posted by: dan91bauer
Should I be able to just simply press and hold down the mouse and spray n pray my guns and get kills from them? Does that make the game more fun?

Yes.
Educated players manually control their bursts, lead their shots, time their grenades, slow their movements to avoid Radar, etc. A few random kills every now and again helps players who arn't yet educated enjoy the game too and prevents them from quiting before they learn the finer points of playing. The game is no fun if there is no one else to play against.

Posted by: dan91bauer
This isn't an issue of someone's KD ration being affected, it's an issue of what's fair and what's not. It's an issue of what is fun and what is not. It's an issue of what is balanced and what is not.

Couldn't have put it better myself.
I'm guessing you're either the kind of player who blames deaths on residual grease on your fingers from eating potateo chips hours before playing, or are the kind of gamer who has special gloves you use for playing - a seperate pair for each game no less - and certain mental exercises you do before your ready to "pwn n00bs".

Posted by: dan91bauer
Why should someone lose a fight to a lesser skilled player due to some in-game luck or in-game randomness that tilted into the favor of the lesser skilled player to allow him to beat the higher skilled player? Why does that need to be there? To me, that's in insult to gamers of ANY skill level.

When the random mechanics of a video game insult you, you need to talk to the voices in your head and explain to them unless they want to be playing video games with stick-like weapons that shoot single bullets in perfectly straight lines on square maps with no kind of geometery of any kind at players who are dressed identically to completely level the playing field they need to accept that random mechanics ensure variation of gameplay.
It's kinda why we have playlists - rather than simply a list of levels to join. It's random, it's crazy - it's FUN.

Posted by: dan91bauer
The fact that you're saying that it's "okay" for noobs to get kills on vets because the game should allow them to is telling me that you're calling almost 99% of all console gamers dumb tards that dont know how to play video games.

I'm not calling 99% of console gamers retards - I'm calling one console gamer a retard Dan91Bauer.

Posted by: dan91bauer
To me, when I see massive auto-aim, magnetism, intentional randomness, random BR spread, and any other intentional factors/crutches in a game, it's an insult to me as a gamer. It's an insult at me that devs think I am that stupid that I can't use my own tactical thinking and my own brain to have success in a video game.

Actually the random mechanics arn't there to guide you, they are there to ensure fairness - slight auto-aim, for example, helps remove the limited accuracey of the Analogue Sticks. It levels the field a bit, so you have more capable opponents to face off against. A better player will always get the top score, don't worry, it just won't be by such a massive bracket. As a gamer, you should welcome a challenge and welcome opponents who pose more of a threat. It's awful lonely at the top.

Posted by: dan91bauer
You're not getting the picture at all.

Your right.
I reckon when turning on your Xbox 360 for the first time there should be a test that plays to determine your skill level - several rounds on several different games. Failing to achieve anything above "1337" locks your Xbox 360 console from accessing the Xbox Live servers so n00bs don't flood our games. After playing offline for a bit, they can re-take the test and when they're good enough they can join us pro's online.
That's fair. I mean, -blam!-, they're just n00bs - we're pro's - our money is worth more.

  • 12.16.2008 3:24 PM PDT
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The BR is cool

  • 12.16.2008 5:40 PM PDT

Posted by: Zeh Don
Comparing an Online FPS for the Xbox 360 to Chess is a really bad way to make your point, I'm sure even Bungie arn't so in love with their game that they'd liken it's tactics to those required by a turn-based board game. Refering back to the original Counter-Strike metaphore would have been the smarter move.
I wasn't likening Halo to anything. I was pointing out how retarded it is to design a game mechanic around new players being able to win against more experienced players. It completely kills the longevity of the game.

I didn't use Counter Strike as an example because I've never played it...

Also, there's a difference between using a random mechanic for bullet placement to mimic the realistic properties of the internal-combustion nature of a gas-propelled, tri-shot burst space-age Battle Rifle and hand-holding.

Significant Auto-Aim = Hand Holding
Random Bullet Spread = Realistic.
Halo isn't realistic. How many times do I have to say this before it finally sinks in? Is someone actually going to stupid enough to examine this game, look past the nuclear space suit wearing soldiers fighting aliens with plasma guns, and take issue with a god damn rifle spread not being realistic?

My comment on hand-holding was directed at your opinion that basic FPS skills (ie. reflexes and aim) shouldn't be a requirement to play well against experienced players.

Counter-Strike, while certainly realistic, trades accurate bullet physics for twitch gameplay and works for it's intended crowd; myself included. Halo 3 trades the speed of twitch gameplay for the tactical gameplay that it's slower paced nature leans toward; random spread and accurate bullet physics map into that. Removing the spread would not turn Halo 3 into Counter Strike. It would simply let players be consistently rewarded for their good shots, and consistently punished for their bad shots.

The Random Bullet Spread also ensures that we see different variations in the same scenario - sometimes a BR can out-match an AR close range, sometimes it can't. Will you risk it and go for the glory? It's these moment to moment decisions that make this tactical, fore-thought requiring nature of Halo 3, and that plays into why it's so fun. "I love the unpredictability of these fights, it makes the game so much fun."

...More power to you then. Forgive me if I like a game where my actions are the direct cause of my winning or losing.

If you can't see that, you're playing the wrong game; Unreal Tournament is that-a-way --> I do play Unreal Tournament. Great game. :)

'Weaker Players', as you so lovingly called them, are often grouped together. Just because I have a low Rank doesn't mean I suck, or am not able to tackle a higher ranked player; simply means I haven't played enough matches to earn the required EXP for that higher rank. So why not let good players advance faster? What you are describing is a flaw in the Bungie/Microsoft matchmaking system.

The game doesn't try to remove the gap, I've seen players dominate an entire game with some players death's nearing twenty while having zero kills. The game gives players a chance; a better player will still sit on the top of the leader board when the match conditions are met. Those kinds of performances by people are almost always the result of poor player matching.

If you can't handle the occasional random kill brought about by random bullet spread, you seriously need to put down your controller and go outside. It's a game.

Oh wait, I forgot:
This is Halo 3; this is serious.
Sorry, but the degree of Halo 3s seriousness has nothing to do with whether the spread should be in the game or not. Telling me that you don't take a game seriously just takes makes me wonder why you are posting here in the first place.

  • 12.16.2008 6:07 PM PDT
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any one realize every mlg wep can be 2 hit kill?

  • 12.16.2008 6:42 PM PDT

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Posted by: SMota14
The BR is cool
Lol

  • 12.16.2008 9:14 PM PDT

Posted by: Zeh Don
"Because, believe it or not, some of us don't come screaming out of our mother's -blam!- with a copy of CS, 9 months worth of training, a Logitech Keyboard/Mouse and an elitest mindset.
Some of us "weird people" actually have to have a first time with a game, and guess what - some of us are going to be able to kill you on that first try thanks to the wonders of luck.
Why should I spend 6 months learning a game before I'm actually allowed to play it?
Oh, wait, because this is serious business. Sorry, keep forgetting that.



This is one of the reasons Bungie created their ranking system; to ensure that newer players generally only get matched up with newer players. If the game had a wider skill gap, the ranking system would actually work as designed much better.

There is a difference between "random" and "lucky." We have no problem with "lucky" because it is part of anything. Random, in terms of this discussion, refers to an in-game, coded mechanic that creates unpredictable results regardless of player actions.

You can get "lucky" kills in Halo CE, but the kills weren't random. You just happened to throw a grenade in the right spot at the right time, or you just happened to have your cursor over the enemies head when you pulled the trigger. Sure, it was lucky, but it was a direct result of your actions. And we're fine with that, "beginners luck" as they say.

Posted by: Zeh Don
Yes.
Educated players manually control their bursts, lead their shots, time their grenades, slow their movements to avoid Radar, etc. A few random kills every now and again helps players who arn't yet educated enjoy the game too and prevents them from quiting before they learn the finer points of playing. The game is no fun if there is no one else to play against.


Uneducated players would be matched with other uneducated players, so they would still be getting kills. I'm not against spray, area-affect weapons, they are part of the weapon balancing act. However, I am against spray-and-pray being rewarded almost equally to accuracy, especially in a FPS.

Bungie's playlists also allow them to remove the more skill-based, rewarding weapons from the playlists for newer players, ensuring that they still get their blind charge and spray gameplay.

Posted by: Zeh Don
Couldn't have put it better myself.
I'm guessing you're either the kind of player who blames deaths on residual grease on your fingers from eating potateo chips hours before playing, or are the kind of gamer who has special gloves you use for playing - a seperate pair for each game no less - and certain mental exercises you do before your ready to "pwn n00bs".


Failed assumption. There's no logic or argument here, so there's no response.


Posted by: Zeh Don
When the random mechanics of a video game insult you, you need to talk to the voices in your head and explain to them unless they want to be playing video games with stick-like weapons that shoot single bullets in perfectly straight lines on square maps with no kind of geometery of any kind at players who are dressed identically to completely level the playing field they need to accept that random mechanics ensure variation of gameplay.
It's kinda why we have playlists - rather than simply a list of levels to join. It's random, it's crazy - it's FUN.


If the fact that you are treated as a semi-concious imbecile who can barely coordinate their hands and fingers doesn't insult you, you need to re-evaluate your self-esteem.

Regardless of what you think, you're not having fun because of "random, crazy, FUN" playlists. You're having fun because you are playing a social game in which you feel you have control over the outcomes. We all enjoy the game for practically the same reason, some of us just want the game to hold peoples hands less.

Posted by: Zeh Don
Actually the random mechanics arn't there to guide you, they are there to ensure fairness - slight auto-aim, for example, helps remove the limited accuracey of the Analogue Sticks. It levels the field a bit, so you have more capable opponents to face off against. A better player will always get the top score, don't worry, it just won't be by such a massive bracket. As a gamer, you should welcome a challenge and welcome opponents who pose more of a threat. It's awful lonely at the top.


Auto-aim does not promote "fairness," it promotes unfairness. It gives players who can't aim as well a boost. Thats unbalanced towards newer players. That doesn't make the game more "fair," that just makes it easier for newer players to score kills against better players. Fair would be each player being rewarded as a direct result of their individual ability. There is nothing more "fair" than that.

Posted by: Zeh Don
I reckon when turning on your Xbox 360 for the first time there should be a test that plays to determine your skill level - several rounds on several different games. Failing to achieve anything above "1337" locks your Xbox 360 console from accessing the Xbox Live servers so n00bs don't flood our games. After playing offline for a bit, they can re-take the test and when they're good enough they can join us pro's online.
That's fair. I mean, -blam!-, they're just n00bs - we're pro's - our money is worth more.


That is completely ridiculous and has nothing to do with what we are discussing. No one is asking to alienate newer players, we're just asking that better players can seperate themselves more. New players will still play AR starts with other new players. They wouldn't even notice a difference.

[Edited on 12.17.2008 8:49 AM PST]

  • 12.17.2008 8:43 AM PDT

Anyone who don't like the BR is just mad that someone with the BR is stylin' on em.

  • 12.17.2008 6:48 PM PDT
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The idea of a non hit scan BR was terrible to begin with. it causes so much off-host BS its unreal.

  • 12.17.2008 11:15 PM PDT

exactly. BR takes teamwork and skill. teamwork for a guy with ar to drain other guys shields, and skillz to shoot the enemy in the head...not really the skill part that's too easy.

  • 12.18.2008 2:44 AM PDT
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its alot easier to use the battle rifle than you people are acting like. when i first started it was the easiest thing to use then abuncha losers said i was hacking so i just whackedem twice. face it halo's not a very competetive game and it will be alot funner when u stop getting anoyed and cussing out some guy on the other team because you can't br him to death from 5 feet when he has an ar

  • 12.18.2008 3:23 PM PDT

Piss me off and say good-bye to your knee-caps and trust me I don't bluff.

Posted by: Pk 4 Skillz1
My thoughts:

*The BR was designed with strengths and weaknesses.
*The weaknesses were added in to offset the strengths.
*It takes skill to use the BR like JonnyOThan said.
*The BR is as effective as it was designed to be.
*Bungie DOESNT have to fix the BR because it is the way they want it to be.

So, if you don't like the BR there is one real simple solution.......................Don't Use It




I couldnt say it better myself.

  • 12.19.2008 5:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: Lol im amazing
The idea of a non hit scan BR was terrible to begin with. it causes so much off-host BS its unreal.
The idea of a hit scan br was terrible to begin with. It causes so much bs its unreal.

  • 12.19.2008 8:55 AM PDT

Recently playing Halo 2 and then soon after halo 3, I realized just how much the weapon has changed. In my opinion is was changed for the better. it works better with the halo 3 mechanics.

  • 12.19.2008 2:44 PM PDT

Favorite weapon and..........to pwn you with haha lol!
______ ____(˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜˜)_∏______
--------____.`=====.-.~:________\___|================[oo]
|_|||___/___/_/~```|_|_|_|``(o)----------<)

i like the br right now its so much more better bungie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 12.19.2008 5:35 PM PDT
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the BR is the best overall gun in my opinion i see nothing wrong with it at all i bow to the BR

  • 12.19.2008 7:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: EpicHeadshotss
the BR is the best overall gun in my opinion i see nothing wrong with it at all i bow to the BR
try to play a game where no one uses br and se how bad they all suck

  • 12.19.2008 9:49 PM PDT
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people.......... garbage/trash and scrub arent even insults scrub is a uniform. Garbage is something my algebra 2 teacher says my homework is

  • 12.19.2008 10:11 PM PDT
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I know/feel what your saying...we all see the disporportion of accuracy, host vs non-host and etc..BUT I still love my BR..I rarley use my AR when i figured out my BR can kill faster. U have to learn to use a BR if you want to be ANY good at Halo 3. There is no other option.

Look at it like this..it takes a whole clip to kill someone with an AR at Medium range...it take about 4-6 shots with the BR....and you dont have to reload right after that. Tatically it just makes more sense to learn to use than to get frustrated and complain about.

Nade and Spray BR=1 shot (.007-.5 seconds)
Nade and Spray AR=1-3 seconds...using your pistol with the strategy is even faster than the AR.

BR beats out the AR in all tatical aspects (range, ammo, speed, *accuracy*) except extreme close range..and even then a melee then BR shot to the head is par if not faster.

Practice makes perfect. Complaining will not change a thing unless your affliated with MLG but thats a whole new post. In constrast to most people I cant stand the H3 AR (check the stats its like 7th on the list of my top weapons used per game)...Halo CE AR was awesome..this one is...eh....at best.

This game has been out more than a year..you still dont know how to use the weapons on the game?...there is no excuse for not knowing how to BR at all...maybe laser or snipe but the BR is like the flour of this "Halo Cake"...lol...just meaning its essential.

B.E.
Check my other posts 2 (^_^)


If you dont agree argee with me...tell me your reasons....I like debates.

[Edited on 12.20.2008 6:06 AM PST]

  • 12.20.2008 6:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: BakedEmperor
I know/feel what your saying...we all see the disporportion of accuracy, host vs non-host and etc..BUT I still love my BR..I rarley use my AR when i figured out my BR can kill faster. U have to learn to use a BR if you want to be ANY good at Halo 3. There is no other option.

Look at it like this..it takes a whole clip to kill someone with an AR at Medium range...it take about 4-6 shots with the BR....and you dont have to reload right after that. Tatically it just makes more sense to learn to use than to get frustrated and complain about.

Nade and Spray BR=1 shot (.007-.5 seconds)
Nade and Spray AR=1-3 seconds...using your pistol with the strategy is even faster than the AR.

BR beats out the AR in all tatical aspects (range, ammo, speed, *accuracy*) except extreme close range..and even then a melee then BR shot to the head is par if not faster.

Practice makes perfect. Complaining will not change a thing unless your affliated with MLG but thats a whole new post. In constrast to most people I cant stand the H3 AR (check the stats its like 7th on the list of my top weapons used per game)...Halo CE AR was awesome..this one is...eh....at best.

This game has been out more than a year..you still dont know how to use the weapons on the game?...there is no excuse for not knowing how to BR at all...maybe laser or snipe but the BR is like the flour of this "Halo Cake"...lol...just meaning its essential.

B.E.
Check my other posts 2 (^_^)


If you dont agree argee with me...tell me your reasons....I like debates.

[Edited on 12.20.2008 6:06 AM PST]
not going to waste time debating but if the guy has an ar and u punch him then try to shoot hes already put half his clip into you which means your no sheilds and he melles your dead. Also br takes 12 bullets to kill and ar takes 16 counting if all of them hit. Basically ar is best for its maximum range. Br is from its range which begins right outside of the ar magnum is somewhere in between.

  • 12.20.2008 12:03 PM PDT

"You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life"

I hate the BR more than I like it and this is why. I'll use it when I have to, but other than that I switch to my trusty Assault Rifle. Lets rewind the clock back a year.

The only reason why Bungie made the starting weapon in most Halo 2 game types the BR was the fact that some people found it unfair to start with the SMG because the other person could just find another dual wieldable weapon and take you out faster. So everyone rushed for the BR all the time. Eventually I accepted the fact that I had to start using the BR and I did.

Come Halo 3 and the trusty Assault Rifle things were looking good for the Halo 3 online play. That is untill they started making the starting weapon a BR again!

To that I say NO! Using the Assault Rifle in Halo 3 was just like using the BR in Halo 2. That was a good reason for adding the Assault Rifle in Halo 3, its cool and everyone has a fair chance at killing eachother. I'm not saying they should take the BR out I'm just saying that the Assault Rifle was a good default.

You can tell me what you think about my opinions I would love to hear yours.

  • 12.20.2008 12:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: DIABLO_X101
I hate the BR more than I like it and this is why. I'll use it when I have to, but other than that I switch to my trusty Assault Rifle. Lets rewind the clock back a year.

The only reason why Bungie made the starting weapon in most Halo 2 game types the BR was the fact that some people found it unfair to start with the SMG because the other person could just find another dual wieldable weapon and take you out faster. So everyone rushed for the BR all the time. Eventually I accepted the fact that I had to start using the BR and I did.

Come Halo 3 and the trusty Assault Rifle things were looking good for the Halo 3 online play. That is untill they started making the starting weapon a BR again!

To that I say NO! Using the Assault Rifle in Halo 3 was just like using the BR in Halo 2. That was a good reason for adding the Assault Rifle in Halo 3, its cool and everyone has a fair chance at killing eachother. I'm not saying they should take the BR out I'm just saying that the Assault Rifle was a good default.

You can tell me what you think about my opinions I would love to hear yours.
Agreed, you br advocates do know that the br is outmatched to a sentinel beam? ive done test all bullets hitting dead on the beam kills you before the br fires 2 shots

  • 12.20.2008 8:19 PM PDT
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I believie the BR should act like this.

1.Decrease the firing rate so it's usefullness in close quarters is reduced.
2.Increase it's effective range so It can damage at greater distances and so the reticule stays red at farther distances.
3.Eleminate the randomness of the spread. Having a roll of the dice dertimine the winner in a BR dual is unacceptable.
4.Make leading your shots less exsaturated. I like the concept but it should only be apparent at long ranges. I dont think one should have to lead their shots when firing at someone who's on the other side of a hallway.

  • 12.21.2008 9:56 AM PDT