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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Snipers are incredibly effective in all 3 Halo games. You seem to think that tightening the spread of the BR will increase it's range to that of a sniper rifle, when that is by no means the case. The BR still has factors that limit it's range, such as the size of the target is smaller because of a less powerful scope, smaller red reticle range and slower bullet speed. You also seem to forget that the sniper requires 1 headshot to kill over the BR's 4 headshots. Sure, the sniper is harder to use in BR games because people are shooting at you, that is clearly evident even in the current game, since the BR's first shot functions to take snipers out of scope, but a solid sniper can quick scope effectively, or just know when to pop out to take a simple shot. Not to mention, snipers can flank and take BR users off guard easily, out of the BR's range. The BR does not have the same firing attributes of the sniper, and thus will not overpower a sniper at long range as long as the sniper is any good.

Hence the reason for my argument not to remove the bullet spread and kickback from the BR. Otherwise the Sniper wouldn't be able to function like this. :)

  • 01.16.2009 5:40 AM PDT

Does anyone even read these?

Posted by: Air Sparrow
Snipers are incredibly effective in all 3 Halo games. You seem to think that tightening the spread of the BR will increase it's range to that of a sniper rifle, when that is by no means the case. The BR still has factors that limit it's range, such as the size of the target is smaller because of a less powerful scope, smaller red reticle range and slower bullet speed. You also seem to forget that the sniper requires 1 headshot to kill over the BR's 4 headshots. Sure, the sniper is harder to use in BR games because people are shooting at you, that is clearly evident even in the current game, since the BR's first shot functions to take snipers out of scope, but a solid sniper can quick scope effectively, or just know when to pop out to take a simple shot. Not to mention, snipers can flank and take BR users off guard easily, out of the BR's range. The BR does not have the same firing attributes of the sniper, and thus will not overpower a sniper at long range as long as the sniper is any good.

Hence the reason for my argument not to remove the bullet spread and kickback from the BR. Otherwise the Sniper wouldn't be able to function like this. :)
I must of read it differently, he is posting that if the spread were removed it will function like that, still wont overpower a Sniper by far but will be a much more consistent weapon.

  • 01.16.2009 5:54 AM PDT
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There's nothing wrong with the BR, but in laggy incidents in can end up getting you killed when you wouldn't have otherwise.

  • 01.16.2009 5:56 AM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

I must of read it differently, he is posting that if the spread were removed it will function like that, still wont overpower a Sniper by far but will be a much more consistent weapon.

Consistency is limited to spread and kickback, the effect of spread and kickback is limited to range. So if you get in closer, spread and kickback have a far lesser effect. :)

  • 01.16.2009 6:07 AM PDT

Fish.
* Please excuse my spelling, I'm slightly dyslexic =(

Posted by: mooshmoossh
I like the BR just the way it is.

I really don't see what's wrong with it.


Agreed With Respect.

  • 01.16.2009 6:50 AM PDT

I love the BR just how it is, although I must admit I'm not the kind of person who takes games so seriously that I would start huge threads about it. No, I'm nothaving a go at you Achronos :P. But seriously Bungie, one thing I would like for the BR is the added ability to make smoothies. Or pie. Or something awesome like that. Maybe a pop-out guitar with amp?

  • 01.16.2009 11:07 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

Consistency is limited to spread and kickback, the effect of spread and kickback is limited to range. So if you get in closer, spread and kickback have a far lesser effect. :)
Having kickback is a good thing, but you seem to think that the only things limiting weapon ranges are the spread and kickback, when there are other, much more important and consistent factors that limit the range, like bullet speed and size of the target. Kickback just makes the gun take more skill. Random bullet spreads do not.

Not to mention, the main problem with the BR is hit registration issues.

  • 01.16.2009 6:10 PM PDT

steady and righteous we may be, my friend, but without courage to risk ourselves for our brother we are but politicians...blustering whores to rhetoric.

i honestly believe slayer br's should start with battle rifle and magnum. slayer is assault rifle and magnum, and i get frustrated in a br match when everyone keeps using the ar much more than the br! it is a br match, afterall

  • 01.17.2009 12:18 AM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Having kickback is a good thing, but you seem to think that the only things limiting weapon ranges are the spread and kickback, when there are other, much more important and consistent factors that limit the range, like bullet speed and size of the target. Kickback just makes the gun take more skill. Random bullet spreads do not.

Not to mention, the main problem with the BR is hit registration issues.


BR hit registration issues? I think you mean latency. I get that a lot online, in fact as a result I can only 5 shot at best whilst offline I can constantly 4 shot. But in any case let's get down to what makes a BR's range limits.

The bullet speed really just affects how far you have to aim ahead of your enemy. It's the same with sniping at an extra-long range. The tops you'll ever need to aim is from one corner of Standoff to the opposite corner. In which case you'll need to aim about 1.5m ahead of the enemy (just a guess but it seems about right).

The size of the target would be down to zoom on the scope and how many scopes a weapon has. So obviously Sniping at that range would be easier than BRing. However, that would then still push the Sniper into the Extra-Long Range category which would be unbalancing the game.

The Random Bullet spread means that it confines the BR to Mid-Range rather than the Close to Long Range it had on Halo 2, making it the ultimate weapon at multiple ranges available for everyone. Kind of kicked out the point of using the Plasma Rifles, Brute Plasma Rifles, Carbine, Magnum, Needlers, Plasma Pistols (unless you were planning the so called 'Noob Combo').

Whilst on Halo 3, if the BR is used at close range there are a variety of weapons which could win; Spikers, Brute Shot, AR, Maulers. And at long range there are also weapons to counter it; Sniper, Beam Rifle, Spartan Laser. In the Mid Range Category it would be included with the likes of the Carbine and Needler. So everything is in perfect balance. A Carbine would likely lose at a mid-range whilst a Needler would win, so I would class these weapons as Lower-Tier Mid Range and Upper-Tier Mid Range respectively. The BR is the absolute middle weapon in all weapon categories and tiers.

It's not the ultimate weapon anymore, it's just the best all-rounder.

  • 01.17.2009 3:28 AM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Air Sparrow
BR hit registration issues? I think you mean latency. I get that a lot online, in fact as a result I can only 5 shot at best whilst offline I can constantly 4 shot. But in any case let's get down to what makes a BR's range limits.
It affects all weapons.The problem is that the BR's slow RoF makes this issue more apparent and frustrating, since it makes you have to shoot another shot. Weapons, like the AR, have a fast RoF making it not as big of an issue. It happens more frequently with burst-fire and automatic weapons. The Magnum or Sniper, for example, is a single-shot making hit registration happen less frequently. Unfortunately, Bungie apparently won't attempt at patching this, and they love to blame people's connections for the issue and that it is "the nature of the internet."

The bullet speed really just affects how far you have to aim ahead of your enemy. It's the same with sniping at an extra-long range. The tops you'll ever need to aim is from one corner of Standoff to the opposite corner. In which case you'll need to aim about 1.5m ahead of the enemy (just a guess but it seems about right). You seem to think that you can't strafe away from bullets at long range, or you forget that you can. Leading your target at longer than normal ranges is more of guessing game, especially if your target is changing movement directions, except you can actually guess the results. With random bullets, all you can do is pray at that range. However, if someone is running in a straight line making leading an easy task, then he deserves to die. I could go on more, but I'll move to your next statement....

The size of the target would be down to zoom on the scope and how many scopes a weapon has. So obviously Sniping at that range would be easier than BRing. However, that would then still push the Sniper into the Extra-Long Range category which would be unbalancing the game.Good point that the size of the target comes down to the amount of zoom a weapon has. A bit obvious, though.

The last statement is completely an opinion. You think the Sniper should dominate at its intended range, and I think the Sniper should just be effective at its range. There are different ways to balance gameplay, I suppose, but I would much rather have the ability to fight back when the control is with the other team. Sorry, that's more fun to me. And, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person that feels that way.

Anyway, why don't you try to support your opinions of "balance" using another weapon. I'm getting tiresome of reading about how an already overly powered long-range Sniper will make the game unbalanced if it becomes less effective.

The Random Bullet spread means that it confines the BR to Mid-Range rather than the Close to Long Range it had on Halo 2, making it the ultimate weapon at multiple ranges available for everyone. Kind of kicked out the point of using the Plasma Rifles, Brute Plasma Rifles, Carbine, Magnum, Needlers, Plasma Pistols (unless you were planning the so called 'Noob Combo'). Hate to say this, but that is completely, utterly wrong. The "randomness" of the spread has NOTHING to do with controlling the range. In fact, it makes the range uncontrollable. The range with random bullet trajectories is inconsistent. Have you ever been Shotgunned from pretty far away? That is why. Randomness.

And, the reason why the Halo 2 BR was so effective at close range was the ineffectiveness of the close range weapons and the Grenade+Br combo, which btw is STILL in Halo 3 and more noobish than ever. Actually, come to think of it, the randomness of the single-shot weapons made the game more unbalanced. If the M6C shot straight, if the PR shot straight, and etc., they would've probably been able to compete against the range of the BR. Actually, if you place the plethora of close range weapons into Halo 2, and eliminate much of the magnetism and auto-assist of the BR, then the BR's close range effectiveness is exactly the same as Halo 3 except takes more skill since the Halo 2 BR had a tighter spread.

Whilst on Halo 3, if the BR is used at close range there are a variety of weapons which could win; Spikers, Brute Shot, AR, Maulers. And at long range there are also weapons to counter it; Sniper, Beam Rifle, Spartan Laser. In the Mid Range Category it would be included with the likes of the Carbine and Needler. So everything is in perfect balance. A Carbine would likely lose at a mid-range whilst a Needler would win, so I would class these weapons as Lower-Tier Mid Range and Upper-Tier Mid Range respectively. The BR is the absolute middle weapon in all weapon categories and tiers.Perfect balance? Hardly. But, this is all completely opinion, so I'm not gonna argue with you about what is more fun and what is more balanced.

However, I will say one fact that some seem to forget. The BR and all other weapons with a headshot bonus beat everything at close range when using a Grenade or against someone without any shields. For this lone reason I would choose to use a single Magnum a 100x more than an AR when facing a camper/Sword/Shotgunner, and for this reason why so many people use mostly the BR. The BR gives them the ability to fight against weapon advantage. [opinion]That's what balance should be about...being able to fight in a disadvantage. But, that's more of a complaint towards AR starts. Though, I do think BR vs. Sniper at long range is unbalanced right now.[/opinion]

It's not the ultimate weapon anymore, it's just the best all-rounder.I would not say that the M6D or the BR was ever the "ultimate weapon." It was just the weapon that could control and fight against Power Weapons so it was used the most. I'm trying to limit my response to mostly facts, so since this statement is 100% opinion, I'll end here.

[Edited on 01.17.2009 6:25 AM PST]

  • 01.17.2009 6:18 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

I really don't know where you're getting the statement that the sniper was useless on smaller maps except for no scoping in Halo 2. Lockout had some of the sickest quick scope and scoping sniping moments on it. As long as the sniper is a one headshot kill, it will dominate the BR at any range, as long as the sniper has any skill with the gun. Sure, the sniper would be a bit harder to use simply because you're not invincible at long range, but it will still be the dominant and game changing force it is in the game today.

  • 01.17.2009 7:07 AM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

[quoteIt affects all weapons.The problem is that the BR's slow RoF makes this issue more apparent and frustrating, since it makes you have to shoot another shot. Weapons, like the AR, have a fast RoF making it not as big of an issue. It happens more frequently with burst-fire and automatic weapons. The Magnum or Sniper, for example, is a single-shot making hit registration happen less frequently. Unfortunately, Bungie apparently won't attempt at patching this, and they love to blame people's connections for the issue and that it is "the nature of the internet."[/quote]

I'm not suprised it affects all weapons. It's called latency. If offline I can four shot constantly and online I can't. The obvious reason is latency. You have to fire an extra shot due to the fact that on the other player's screen your shot missed whilst on your screen you hit. This affects all weapons in the same way.

You seem to think that you can't strafe away from bullets at long range, or you forget that you can. Leading your target at longer than normal ranges is more of guessing game, especially if your target is changing movement directions, except you can actually guess the results. With random bullets, all you can do is pray at that range. However, if someone is running in a straight line making leading an easy task, then he deserves to die. I could go on more, but I'll move to your next statement....

Typically seeing bullets fly across the screen at that range is impossible and even if you could see them you'd need the reflexes of a hardened AC veteran to avoid them. The trick is strafing before you opponent takes the shot, then when they've taken it they think you've avoided it when they've really just missed. That's the nature of strafing.

The last statement is completely an opinion. You think the Sniper should dominate at its intended range, and I think the Sniper should just be effective at its range. There are different ways to balance gameplay, I suppose, but I would much rather have the ability to fight back when the control is with the other team. Sorry, that's more fun to me. And, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person that feels that way.

Well typically if you can't defeat a Sniper with a BR you just call them out and keep them distracted while your team deals with them. On top of that, all of the large maps have vehicles, try using them once in a while, or of course you could just keep them distracted while your sniper deals with them. There are two snipers on each large map you know. In any case I guess it is an opinion but in Halo 3 it is fact, the sniper dominates as a weapon at that range but it still has weaknesses. Here's a good type comparison:

- Sniper beats all weapons at long range
- Most vehicles beat the Sniper
- The Laser and the Missile pod beat most vehicles
- All other weapons beat the Laser and Missile pod due to limited ammo

And so it goes around in a circle. If the opponent has a one of these then just play on the next attack strategy in the loop. If course, good teamwork can destroy any of these in any game, and only superior teamwork beats that.

Anyway, why don't you try to support your opinions of "balance" using another weapon. I'm getting tiresome of reading about how an already overly powered long-range Sniper will make the game unbalanced if it becomes less effective.

Well I hope that the balance system is explained well enough via the above list. :)

Hate to say this, but that is completely, utterly wrong. The "randomness" of the spread has NOTHING to do with controlling the range. In fact, it makes the range uncontrollable. The range with random bullet trajectories is inconsistent. Have you ever been Shotgunned from pretty far away? That is why. Randomness.

I don't know. The random nature of the BR's long-range fire eliminates itself. You can't use a weapon at long range if it's completely inaccurate right? It's the reason you don't try to SMG across Valhalla, it's range is limited by it's increased spread. It's only logical.

And being Shotgunned from far away is partially latency and partially health. Often when you are shotgunned from a distance away it's because on their screen they are a lot closer to you than it looks like to you. The other reason is because the Shotgun damages health a lot more than shields, it's like a reversed Plasma Rifle. If you have already been taken down to no shields then the Shotgun can have a pretty amazing range of effectiveness.

And, the reason why the Halo 2 BR was so effective at close range was the ineffectiveness of the close range weapons and the Grenade+Br combo, which btw is STILL in Halo 3 and more noobish than ever. Actually, come to think of it, the randomness of the single-shot weapons made the game more unbalanced. If the M6C shot straight, if the PR shot straight, and etc., they would've probably been able to compete against the range of the BR. Actually, if you place the plethora of close range weapons into Halo 2, and eliminate much of the magnetism and auto-assist of the BR, then the BR's close range effectiveness is exactly the same as Halo 3 except takes more skill since the Halo 2 BR had a tighter spread.

Close range weapons in Halo 3 are far more effective than in Halo 2. It's another factor in the balance system. Have you seen how many people have complained in just this thread about the power of the AR in contrast to the power of the BR at close range? The AR will nearly always come out on top at that range, it's the same for SMGs, Plasma Rifles, Spikers etc.

As for if they shot without spread, yes I agree. But is that a good thing? The close range weapons deal far more damage than a BR, if they shot straight then there would be no point to using the BR. They limit range in accordance to power. The less the range the more effective the weapon.

However, I will say one fact that some seem to forget. The BR and all other weapons with a headshot bonus beat everything at close range when using a Grenade or against someone without any shields. For this lone reason I would choose to use a single Magnum a 100x more than an AR when facing a camper/Sword/Shotgunner, and for this reason why so many people use mostly the BR. The BR gives them the ability to fight against weapon advantage. [opinion]That's what balance should be about...being able to fight in a disadvantage. But, that's more of a complaint towards AR starts. Though, I do think BR vs. Sniper at long range is unbalanced right now.[/opinion]

However if you are already winning the game. Why should you need to rush someone with a Sword or Shotgun? It's pointless and will only give them points. If you aren't winning, why did they get a kill in the first place? Likely because you were out-skilled. In any case, in the event of a camper just bounce grenades, they are scattered all over the map so you will always get the chance to grab some. I can understand your complaint towards AR starts though, a BR, being the middle weapon in the balance system would seem a lot better.

I would not say that the M6D or the BR was ever the "ultimate weapon." It was just the weapon that could control and fight against Power Weapons so it was used the most. I'm trying to limit my response to mostly facts, so since this statement is 100% opinion, I'll end here.

All of the power weapons can be fought against in some way or another besides the Rockets, in which case why would you let the opponent get the Rockets first? Either that you you were out-skilled. The rockets are really the only weapon I see not in balance, I prefer to think of them as a bonus for one team. If you are able to get them it gives you extra points. :)

I really don't know where you're getting the statement that the sniper was useless on smaller maps except for no scoping in Halo 2. Lockout had some of the sickest quick scope and scoping sniping moments on it. As long as the sniper is a one headshot kill, it will dominate the BR at any range, as long as the sniper has any skill with the gun. Sure, the sniper would be a bit harder to use simply because you're not invincible at long range, but it will still be the dominant and game changing force it is in the game today.

The thing that the Sniper is meant for is long-distance shooting. If you are hit with a BR you are pinged out of scope, if the person wielding the BR is any good they will shoot you before you have a change to scope in and take a shot. On Halo 2, this happened at at a long range which the BR should not be accurate at. If you quick scope someone, it means that they are simply not a good player whilst wielding the BR as they could not shoot you fast enough. In Halo 3, the BR is inaccurate enough to give the Sniper the ground back they needed.

[Edited on 01.17.2009 7:28 AM PST]

  • 01.17.2009 7:21 AM PDT

Posted by: Air Sparrow
BR hit registration issues? I think you mean latency. I get that a lot online, in fact as a result I can only 5 shot at best whilst offline I can constantly 4 shot.
Registration issues can occur during LAN play as well.

There has to be a point where it isn't "bad connection" and is actually "bad programming."

  • 01.17.2009 10:37 AM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Air Sparrow
And so it goes around in a circle. If the opponent has a one of these then just play on the next attack strategy in the loop.
Like Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock? Hmmm, interresting you feel that way. Maybe that's why I think Halo:CE was far more enjoyable than Halo 3. Because it wasn't like Rock, Paper, Scissors, which gets boring after a while.

  • 01.17.2009 4:13 PM PDT

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: Air Sparrow
And so it goes around in a circle. If the opponent has a one of these then just play on the next attack strategy in the loop.
Like Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock? Hmmm, interresting you feel that way. Maybe that's why I think Halo:CE was far more enjoyable than Halo 3. Because it wasn't like Rock, Paper, Scissors, which gets boring after a while.


Exactly. I hate how battles are determined by which weapon each player has, rather than by the ability of each player.

  • 01.17.2009 5:17 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

The thing that the Sniper is meant for is long-distance shooting. If you are hit with a BR you are pinged out of scope, if the person wielding the BR is any good they will shoot you before you have a change to scope in and take a shot. On Halo 2, this happened at at a long range which the BR should not be accurate at. If you quick scope someone, it means that they are simply not a good player whilst wielding the BR as they could not shoot you fast enough. In Halo 3, the BR is inaccurate enough to give the Sniper the ground back they needed.

Do you even understand the concept of quick scoping? It doesn't matter if you're shooting a guy with a BR, he can still quickly scope in and take a shot and hit, if he is good. The point is, the sniper was still incredibly effective on all the maps it was on in Halo 2, and is even more effective in Halo 3.

  • 01.17.2009 9:25 PM PDT

When you're in the war. It's not fun and games any more. Halo is in your hands now.

The BR is crazy good don't change it. I like it since it's like a mini sniper it's kinda better than snipe but the snipe hits are perfect!

(<^~*~*GamerBoy668~*~*^>)
~VVVV*^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^*VVVV~

  • 01.17.2009 10:34 PM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Registration issues can occur during LAN play as well.

There has to be a point where it isn't "bad connection" and is actually "bad programming."


I've never had it happen to me before.

Now as most forum-goers say...

Evidence or it didn't happen. :)

Like Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock? Hmmm, interresting you feel that way. Maybe that's why I think Halo:CE was far more enjoyable than Halo 3. Because it wasn't like Rock, Paper, Scissors, which gets boring after a while.

Exactly. I hate how battles are determined by which weapon each player has, rather than by the ability of each player.


You could think of it that way or you could think of it as the fact that all weapons are counterable. On Halo 1 the Scorpion Tank was unstoppable. It had ultimate range, power and defence and therefore the first person to get the scorpion would usually win. However on Halo 3 if you were to try using a Scorpion you can always be beaten by a Laser, and the Laser can be beaten by all other weapons, which in turn are beaten by most vehicles. If your opponent has a weapon you now have the option to switch to the next one to beat it.

So yeah, Halo 1 was more fair, the person getting the Scorpion first won due to his awesome amount of skill in the tank, Halo 3 isn't skillful because you only have to know how to beat it with the right weapon correct? I suppose you are only stating an opinion though so I can't really argue with it.

Do you even understand the concept of quick scoping? It doesn't matter if you're shooting a guy with a BR, he can still quickly scope in and take a shot and hit, if he is good. The point is, the sniper was still incredibly effective on all the maps it was on in Halo 2, and is even more effective in Halo 3.

Yes I do, however if you quick scope you have to do two things:

1. Scope in
2. Take the shot

And thats providing you have the aim needed to land the headshot. If the opponent is good enough with his BR at a close range then they only have one thing to do; take the shot, and will interrupt you and ping you out:

1. Scope in
1-5. The opponent interrupts and pings you out
2. You shoot out of scope, you may have not finished aiming in the fraction of a second you had and are more likely to miss the shot

Of course, this is only providing both players have developed the highest level of skill. In even slightly less skill ranges the BRing player might not time his shot right to ping the Sniper out of scope and thus the Sniper can quick scope. It purely depends on the skills of the players. But at the highest level of both players, the BR will always come out on top at that range.

[Edited on 01.18.2009 8:15 AM PST]

  • 01.18.2009 8:12 AM PDT

Air Sparrow your arguments are complete nonsense and obviously not based on first hand experience. The Scorpion in H1 was the most balanced out of all 3 games because the driver's head was visible; meaning you could snipe or pistol them rather than in H2 & 3 where they are almost invincible.

I really don't have the time or energy to argue in circles about your other points but how you fail to see that the BR even with single shot function would be far harder to aim than the sniper at long range I find unbelievable. Your arguments about your teammates filling in with niche weapons is also complete drivel and if you played anyone good you would realise this is absolute nonsense and 90% of the time you have to rely on the weapons you have which will often not be the ideal weapons for the situation.

  • 01.18.2009 9:18 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member
  • gamertag: Gazas
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The Mythic Threads (Halo 3) (ODST) (Reach)

Here's something interesting that most people probably know about, but it's still interesting.

Start up a game in Foundry, with open space, so remove everything on it.
Have one player stand on one side, not moving.
With the BR, go to the other side with another player.

Ok, now, with the BR, line up your aim right next to the player, don't touch him with the reticule. Without zooming in, unload a clip.
Now, do the same thing as above, this time, zoom in.

Do you notice it? When you're not zooming, you don't hit the player. When zoomed in though, you hit the player with one bullet or two sometimes.

Now do the same thing, this time, move closer. Half-way across the map is enough.

Repeat the exact same thing as above.

This time, when you're not zooming in, you can hit the player quite often, you can even drain all of his shield away.

Though when you zoom in this time, the bullets won't come close at all.

Just wanted to point it out if someone didn't know.

  • 01.18.2009 10:44 AM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Air Sparrow is using another overly powered weapon, this time the Scorpion Tank, to support his opinion. He is not doing himself any favors by stating that an overpowered element in Halo 3 makes the game more balanced. In Halo 1, I enjoyed being on foot or in the Tank in the same game. You could Pistol and Sniper the driver and the Tank took an amount of effort to be effective. In Halo 3, I only enjoy being in the Tank since being on foot is quite worthless. The only ways to take out a Tank in Halo 3 is by surprise or Lasor, and if your teammate has the Lasor then you're invincible and are guaranteed the victory. Even the Vehicles in Halo 2 were overpowered with the BR being more effective.

Apparently, by his opinion, it is ok to have overpowered weapons and vehicles as long as the BR isn't overpowered (which, btw, can't be overpowered since it no longers controls close range weapons).
.
I've never seen someone support their opinion of balance with overpowered and unblanced weapons/vehicles before. He is truly unique.



Posted by: Gazas
Here's something interesting that most people probably know about, but it's still interesting.

Start up a game in Foundry, with open space, so remove everything on it.
Have one player stand on one side, not moving.
With the BR, go to the other side with another player.

Ok, now, with the BR, line up your aim right next to the player, don't touch him with the reticule. Without zooming in, unload a clip.
Now, do the same thing as above, this time, zoom in.

Do you notice it? When you're not zooming, you don't hit the player. When zoomed in though, you hit the player with one bullet or two sometimes.

Now do the same thing, this time, move closer. Half-way across the map is enough.

Repeat the exact same thing as above.

This time, when you're not zooming in, you can hit the player quite often, you can even drain all of his shield away.

Though when you zoom in this time, the bullets won't come close at all.

Just wanted to point it out if someone didn't know.
I think this test was done a long time ago, but it is inaccurate anyway. The BR shoots randomly, so accurate results are kind of hard to find. And, the zoom affects the BR's spread in NO way whatsoever, which explains why you would miss while zoomed in at closer ranges. The BR's spread is RANDOM and nothing affects it, therefore, what may have seemed like something interresting happened probably was just a result of randomness.

I do, however, want to add that I think the zoom on no-scope weapons affect the accuracy of the weapons. I have many times hit someone with a Magnum at long range while zoomed in. It seems that way, anyway. I'm not going to test it, though, cause it is hard to gather accurate stats when the zoom has no reticule and the weapons shoot randomly. I think I'll just continue to use something to my advantage that many people still don't even know.

  • 01.18.2009 3:20 PM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Air Sparrow is using another overly powered weapon, this time the Scorpion Tank, to support his opinion. He is not doing himself any favors by stating that an overpowered element in Halo 3 makes the game more balanced.

Actually you have my view the other way around:

An overpowered element in Halo 1 makes the game less balanced.

The Scorpion tank in Halo 1 was unstoppable once used, there were very few ways of killing it fast. In Halo 3 we have lasers, Missile Pods, Banshees, Hornets and the oldschool ability to mount the tank and beat the crap out of it first seen in Halo 2. If you like your tank destroyable in a balanced game, Halo 3 if your cup of tea. If you prefer the game to be won over a single vehicle, you would prefer Halo 1, simple as. :)

In Halo 1, I enjoyed being on foot or in the Tank in the same game. You could Pistol and Sniper the driver and the Tank took an amount of effort to be effective. In Halo 3, I only enjoy being in the Tank since being on foot is quite worthless. The only ways to take out a Tank in Halo 3 is by surprise or Lasor, and if your teammate has the Lasor then you're invincible and are guaranteed the victory. Even the Vehicles in Halo 2 were overpowered with the BR being more effective.

Against a Scorpion on Halo 1 I personally hated being on foot, you never stood a chance. Bullets recoiled and grenades simply take too long to detonate. Rockets were your only sure-fire way to win vs a Scorpion. Pistoling and Sniping the Scorpion was an option but the Scorpion tank needed so little aim due to the sheer power of the shell's splash damage that unless you were going very long range Sniping and Pistoling was impossible. Plus the fact that the Scorpion has supreme range among any weapon and vehicle in any of the Halo games meant that he was reduced to Sniping you, essentially you were tied in your Sniping match. Either that or the Scorpion tank would just point it's back at you and swivel around the turret to face you. Meaning the driver was protected the whole time.

Apparently, by his opinion, it is ok to have overpowered weapons and vehicles as long as the BR isn't overpowered (which, btw, can't be overpowered since it no longers controls close range weapons).

Think of it this way, if everything in a game is overpowered, what is it overpowered in contrast to? The BR is an effective mid-range weapon, if you want it to have a little longer range to match a Sniper at long range, a bit more power to match an Assault Rifle at close range and a built in coffee machine then that is your opinion. Ultimately it doesn't matter anyway, Bungie seems to like it's H3 BR just the way it is. :)

I've never seen someone support their opinion of balance with overpowered and unblanced weapons/vehicles before. He is truly unique.

Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment. :)

[Edited on 01.18.2009 3:54 PM PST]

  • 01.18.2009 3:52 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Air Sparrow
The Scorpion tank in Halo 1 was unstoppable once used
That is completely wrong. It is not opinion. It is FACT. The Halo 1 Tank was much, much easier to take out than both Halo 2 and Halo 3. It's not even comparable. The only thing in Halo 3 that gives you a chance is a Missile Pod/Lasor and another Tank. In Halo 2, nothing stood a chance unless you snuck up on it and maybe a Rocket Launcher. At least Bungie could realize what a stupid decision it was to overpower Vehicles in Halo 2 and attempted at balancing it better by adding Equipment, Lasor, and etc. Too bad their so-called attempt at balancing the Vehicles do not do much to those who spawn.

Against a Scorpion on Halo 1 I personally hated being on foot, you never stood a chance.That is an opinion, though a pretty odd one at that. I can only assume you lacked skill in Halo 1, cause I actually had confidence when I was on foot against all Vehicles in Halo 1. I can also only assume you never played Halo 1 in LAN parties. What happens in Halo 3 with Vehicles, like people getting spawned killed and people going on massive kill sprees, just didn't happen in Halo 1.

I'm with Prodigy. This is just nonsense of some of the things you are saying.

[Edited on 01.18.2009 5:07 PM PST]

  • 01.18.2009 5:05 PM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

That is completely wrong. It is not opinion. It is FACT. The Halo 1 Tank was much, much easier to take out than both Halo 2 and Halo 3. It's not even comparable. The only thing in Halo 3 that gives you a chance is a Missile Pod/Lasor and another Tank. In Halo 2, nothing stood a chance unless you snuck up on it and maybe a Rocket Launcher. At least Bungie could realize what a stupid decision it was to overpower Vehicles in Halo 2 and attempted at balancing it better by adding Equipment, Lasor, and etc. Too bad their so-called attempt at balancing the Vehicles do not do much to those who spawn.

After a certain degree of damage the Scorpion's latch breaks open and the driver is open to fire anyways, so that would put all non-power weapons at the same advantage. But if you insist on arguing:

Things that can kill the Scorpion Tank in Halo 1

Rockets
Grenades
Another Scorpion
A Banshee (but only if you are playing the PC version are the Banshees even in Multiplayer)

Things that can kill the Scorpion Tank in Halo 2

Rockets (now with homing)
Grenades
Another Scorpion
A Gauss Hog
A Wraith
A Banshee

Things that can kill the Scorpion Tank in Halo 3

Rockets (now without homing :( )
Grenades (now with Spike Grenades)
Spartan Laser
Missile Pod
A Gauss Hog
Another Scorpion
A Wraith
A Hornet
A Banshee

I think it's fairly apparent that there are more options to killing a Scorpion on Halo 3 now. Plus if you take a somewhat similar map on each game, such as Sidewinder, Containment and Avalanche, lets see what you'd get to defeat a Scorpion...

Sidewinder

Rockets
Grenades
Another Scorpion

Containment

Rockets (with homing)
Grenades
Another Scorpion
A Wraith
A Gauss Hog
A Banshee
Jacking the Scorpion

Avalanche

Rockets (without homing)
Grenades (now with Spike Grenades)
Spartan Laser
Another Scorpion
A Wraith
A Hornet
A Banshee
Jacking the Scorpion

Again I think it's quite apparent what map has more readily available to defeat a Scorpion. Plus in Halo 3 you can alter the balance should you wish in forge. :)

That is an opinion, though a pretty odd one at that. I can only assume you lacked skill in Halo 1, cause I actually had confidence when I was on foot against all Vehicles in Halo 1. I can also only assume you never played Halo 1 in LAN parties. What happens in Halo 3 with Vehicles, like people getting spawned killed and people going on massive kill sprees, just didn't happen in Halo 1.

I likely did lack skill then. But looking back on my past experiences in H1, H2 and H3 I can see what the problems were in each game. Halo 3 isn't a perfect game, every game has it's problems, but I think for the most part the Halo series has improved every game. I've never played in any LAN party before, due to the fact that I didn't know anyone else who owned an Xbox. I spent much of my Halo 1 life either on the PC or with a few mates on the Console. Those mates then got Halo 2 at the same time I did and Halo 3 also. It's always more fun to have team mates to rely on other than relying on only yourself to carry all weapons for the balance. :)

I'll agree with your last statement though. The amount of times my team has lost on a map like Standoff or Valhalla where you spawn in the open and get killed by a Banshee, Sniper or Warthog is just horrible. It's the one major flaw Halo 3 has and that can be simply fixed by building maps with larger bases, it's likely one of the things that Bungie is doing at the moment with the Mythic Maps.

[Edited on 01.18.2009 6:53 PM PST]

  • 01.18.2009 6:53 PM PDT