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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: Jiggaspook
I have a problem with the BR-

It takes 9 BR bullets to the head to kill an Elite in SWAT matchmaking.

Don't believe me? Look at my file share. "Cheap Elites."

I dare you. O:
First of all, the BR ruins the gameplay of "SWAT." To be honest, I have no idea why it's considered a Hardcore gametype. It requires as much skill as the Rockets gametype. I know it is very random, but it should only be Magnums (I would say Carbines too but it can't be a spawn weapon and it has a fast RoF). Back in the old days when getting a headshot was satisfying, the M6D was used with this gametype of everyone having no shields. It was fun and at the same time practices your precision. "SWAT" doesn't help precision aiming at all and, to me, just gets boring and is about who sees who first.

As for Elites in SWAT, the BR is random. It is random because of disappearing bullets and the inconsistent tightness of the spread. Though, this really affects SPARTAN models as well. I wonder if since the SPARTAN models' head is at the top, there is a degree of magnetism that makes you hit as the bullet is close enough. An Elite model's head is surrounded by its shoulders, therefore, having less magnetism for headshots and making the randomness affect it far more than the other model. One thing that helps, though, is sweeping the reticule across your target when you shoot the head. This puts the randomness a little more in your favor.


I totally agree with your sentiment. I really don't understand why they had to ruin the game by reducing the skill factor, I really am confused. Some sort of explanation would be nice. Everything in halo 1 was better, pistol, AR, grenades, movement, maps, rockets, power ups, spawns, teleporters, plasma weapons, vehicles, balance, everything. I can't think of anything in halo 3 that is better barring graphics although halo 1 actually felt a bit smoother. The game is way more enyoyable and has more longevity when it has more depth.

I have been thinking the same about SWAT with regards to Elites, the bullets definitely auto-aim their shoulders instead of the head. I can't believe Bungie is still in denial of this its a joke and no thanks we don't want to play as dinosaurs.

  • 01.26.2009 2:43 AM PDT

A great quote from Clap off of the MLG forums...

What made Halo1 great is that you as an individual could rise above the ebb and flow of the team struggle and carry your team to victory by sheer skill. All of the kills seemed spectacular. You could be the hero, not just another anonymous team shooter hoping to get the last BR shot in someone.

  • 01.26.2009 5:00 PM PDT

Yeah I don't even know what is the difference with the BR spread or whatever you all are talking about. I don't even notice a difference, I perfectly content with the BR.

  • 01.26.2009 8:05 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: MysticRyan166
Yeah I don't even know what is the difference with the BR spread or whatever you all are talking about. I don't even notice a difference, I perfectly content with the BR.
It's better that way. It's best not knowing as knowing creates more frustration. However, you use the BR less than I use the M6G Magnum LOL, so I see it quite odd that you even posted in this thread. I wish I could have your lack of knowledge towards the BR and randomness. Maybe the game would be more fun, then.

[Edited on 01.26.2009 11:56 PM PST]

  • 01.26.2009 11:51 PM PDT

One death is tragedy, one million is a statistic
- Joseph Stalin

I have to agree with you. Whats so bad about it? It seems fine to me.

  • 01.27.2009 10:52 PM PDT

Posted by: Bomber
I have to agree with you. Whats so bad about it? It seems fine to me.


I suggest you play the game a bit more before commenting on core gameplay mechanics.

The BR fires a burst of 3 bullets per shot. These bullets have a spread which increases with range. This spread is random to a certain extent. This means that the amount of damage inflicted by your shots is affected by random factors especially beyond a certain range. As you have no alternative but to use the BR at this range in a lot of situations you have to hope that the spread favours you. I would also argue that the random spread could affect outcomes even at close range as 2 players may be equally inaccurate and miss by a tiny margin but the player with the wider spread will most likely cause more damage. Another effect of the spread that somewhat relates to my previous point is that it makes getting headshots on shieldless opponents easier because you can rely on 3 spread out bullets to do the job therefore significantly reducing the amount of precision aim required.

  • 01.28.2009 2:17 AM PDT

The next person to assume I am talking about ranked, do us all a favor and look at what I play!

The spread was created to make the weapon balanced (as if that was ever doable).

  • 01.28.2009 5:19 AM PDT

The next person to assume I am talking about ranked, do us all a favor and look at what I play!

Seriously, and you don't get threads about needing to get the shotgun spread fixed.

  • 01.28.2009 5:21 AM PDT

In a lot of people's opinions balancing the BR with a spread is a poor means of balance. It is perfectly logical for the shotgun to be limited by a spread as it is not a precision weapon.

  • 01.28.2009 5:54 AM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: mortabunt
The spread was created to make the weapon balanced (as if that was ever doable).
As long as the BR is a burst-fire weapon that deals headshots it will be considered, well what do they call it? "overpowered." The spread is there because Bungie and apparently too many people don't want to start with a Mid-range precision weapon, so they attempted at making 4-shotting less reliable. BR spawns are the most balanced, but in AR, or SMG, spawns the BR all of a sudden unbalances it, while at the same time Power Weapons are less balanced. BR/M6D spawns is what always balanced the gameplay out with Power Weapons on the maps.

Did they balance the BR in Halo 3? No they didn't, because the BR is a mid-range burst-fire weapon that deals headshots. There is no way around it. As long as the BR sprays headshots it will dominate close-range weapons. Actually, the only effect that decreasing the BR's range does is make Snipers overpowered (not to mention, it slows gameplay since you have to get closer to your target).

Does anyone think the Carbine or Magnum is overpowered? I have yet to see any posts about it. It's partly due to those weapons being underused. But, those are single-shot weapons. The M6G Magnum is a 5-shot, compared to the BR's 4-shot. Do you think maybe there is a way to balance it better? Even if those single-shot weapons were not random, they would be balanced better than what we have with the BR. Bullet speed and lack of magnetism is what makes those weapons work. Personally, I dominate AR users with the M6G, so from my eye they DO overpower things. But, that's not what the ToD stats of people say.

Unfortunately, the only true way to balance the BR is make a single-shot that shoots straight (so to defend against Snipers). Hey, that sounds familiar. Like the M6D, everyone's favorite Halo weapon. Bungie refuses to see that though.

It's a shame that Halo:CE's gameplay is lost. It really was quite enjoyable.

[Edited on 01.28.2009 6:28 AM PST]

  • 01.28.2009 6:24 AM PDT
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all i know is pistol smg combo rapes at close quarters i love using that combo on people whos gamer tag is like 4 shot legit or br legend its fun listening through my TV u F***ing N**bs cant Br so u got smmg me hillarious im surprised no 1 uses it especially like guradian where their is only 1 br and now we spawn with pistols which is awesome

  • 01.29.2009 2:15 AM PDT

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Unfortunately, the only true way to balance the BR is make a single-shot that shoots straight (so to defend against Snipers). Hey, that sounds familiar. Like the M6D, everyone's favorite Halo weapon. Bungie refuses to see that though.
The BR you are describing can be seen in the video of the Halo 2 demo shown at E3. I'm still trying to understand why they thought changing it for the final game was a good idea.

  • 01.29.2009 7:26 AM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Nokterne
Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Unfortunately, the only true way to balance the BR is make a single-shot that shoots straight (so to defend against Snipers). Hey, that sounds familiar. Like the M6D, everyone's favorite Halo weapon. Bungie refuses to see that though.
The BR you are describing can be seen in the video of the Halo 2 demo shown at E3. I'm still trying to understand why they thought changing it for the final game was a good idea.
Yeah. I remember seeing that. I think it had to do with Bungie feeling they could control its range easier while making it effective against Snipers at the same time. The Carbine, for example, shoots randomly to control its range but is awful against Snipers. I just think it's a bad design to balance Halo-specific precision weapons like that. The range can be controlled by bullet speed and the size of the target. The functionality of the M6D is what made the game so much fun and unique. As far as randomness to control range, Halo 3 has the worst out of the other popular FPSs, Gears2 and COD4. And, those games also have a lot of recoil affecting the bullets' trajectory.

[Edited on 01.29.2009 9:50 AM PST]

  • 01.29.2009 9:49 AM PDT

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Unfortunately, the only true way to balance the BR is make a single-shot that shoots straight (so to defend against Snipers). Hey, that sounds familiar. Like the M6D, everyone's favorite Halo weapon. Bungie refuses to see that though.
The BR is actually exactly that - just better. The first shot of the burst has less spread than a single shot from the M6D. This makes it effective at knocking snipers out of zoom, but makes it less effective at breaking shields from long range thanks to the larger spread of the latter rounds. Emphasizing its role as a headshotter instead of a shieldbreaker also promotes teamshooting, as a teammate using a PR or AR to take the shields down and another teammate finishing them off is more effective than two BRs.

  • 01.29.2009 12:59 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Mutoid Log
Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Unfortunately, the only true way to balance the BR is make a single-shot that shoots straight (so to defend against Snipers). Hey, that sounds familiar. Like the M6D, everyone's favorite Halo weapon. Bungie refuses to see that though.
The BR is actually exactly that - just better. The first shot of the burst has less spread than a single shot from the M6D. This makes it effective at knocking snipers out of zoom, but makes it less effective at breaking shields from long range thanks to the larger spread of the latter rounds. Emphasizing its role as a headshotter instead of a shieldbreaker also promotes teamshooting, as a teammate using a PR or AR to take the shields down and another teammate finishing them off is more effective than two BRs.
I'll assume you forget how the M6D functioned or just didn't know how to use it (Don't worry, I didn't understand how to use it until someone showed me). The M6D only shot randomly when the Trigger was held, but when pulsed, it had no spread and shot straight. The first bullet of the BR's burst doesn't even have that accuracy (which btw there isn't any reason why it shouldn't).

The biggest issue, aside from its randomness, is that headshotting is the easiest thing to do with the BR in Halo. If that was Bungie's goal with the weapon then they succeeded immensely. Do you think the M6G Magnum is a "shieldbreaker"? It is a single-shot, and I sure as hell don't use it that way as a "shieldbreaker." Grenades are "shieldbreakers" and coupled with a BR beats everything no matter how poor at precision shooting you are. It's like COD4 where you just spray across your target for an instant kill. Grenade+Magnum is precision, which is why I became a Halo fan, because headshots were satisfying and fun to pull off. And, as a Sniper I could care less when someone knocks me out of my zoom with a BR, because I understand that he won't kill me. That is all the BR's long distance effectiveness is used for, to give you a chance to get cover. I would also much rather me and my teammate(s) have a BR instead of a PR or AR (M6G is ok), because BRs are more effective against Power Weapons. Those who use close-range weapons (aside from Sword) tend to die more. 2 BRs are almost equilavent to an AR and a BR anyway, and 2 BRs at mid-range dominate an AR and a BR.

Sorry for the long rant as to why you're wrong. Some of what you said was opinion and I respect it, but at least get your facts right comparing the M6D to the BR.

  • 01.29.2009 2:43 PM PDT
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i have a problem how come when i do a perfect 4 shot on somebody it doesnt kill them cause of my shots are not registering as much as they use to

  • 01.29.2009 6:30 PM PDT

Posted by: Critical Mass93
In my experience, the BR users are often overwhelmed at close range. The "Close range people" tend to often carry a Mid range weapon with them (like a BR or AR). I agree with you that the M6D was perfect when pulsed, I still use that trick when I play Custom Edition, But I think that the BR fills a similar role in Halo 3. The only problem with that is the burst does send off accuracy.


Well I think before you act like you understand Halo 3 you should at least get a 1,000 games under your belt, perhaps a highest skill of at least 30 as well. At your level yes the majority of the BR users will get overwhelmed by the AR but this is because they are learning how to use the BR and how to use grenades. When you get to the higher levels using the AR is generally a bad idea unless you are ambushing unaware players as you will probably find a grenade in your path followed by a burst or 2 from a BR to finish you off.

Also I would suggest the time to use the AR is when you are host as it is insanely overpowered in this scenario and most players will not be able to 4 shot you.

[Edited on 01.30.2009 2:44 AM PST]

  • 01.30.2009 2:40 AM PDT

JoIn Dark Column ===== OwNeR ==== Darkpast99

ThE cHeEsE cAkE pLaYeR

hmmm.... it is a 4 shot kill in the head for marine and elete(sry for spelling) BR is the best weapon for middium(spelling) distance firing and their is nothing wrong with it... the only problem with it is the you have to have steddie(spelling) hands to aim really good..... which is not really hard for me cuz ive been useing the BR every since Halo = Halo 3 and ive became good as with it...

So stop the complaining and just get use to the BR its just like a weapon to every thing else.... BR is like a Sniper with a power of a assult

  • 01.30.2009 3:47 AM PDT

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: Mutoid Log
Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Unfortunately, the only true way to balance the BR is make a single-shot that shoots straight (so to defend against Snipers). Hey, that sounds familiar. Like the M6D, everyone's favorite Halo weapon. Bungie refuses to see that though.
The BR is actually exactly that - just better. The first shot of the burst has less spread than a single shot from the M6D. This makes it effective at knocking snipers out of zoom, but makes it less effective at breaking shields from long range thanks to the larger spread of the latter rounds. Emphasizing its role as a headshotter instead of a shieldbreaker also promotes teamshooting, as a teammate using a PR or AR to take the shields down and another teammate finishing them off is more effective than two BRs.
I'll assume you forget how the M6D functioned or just didn't know how to use it (Don't worry, I didn't understand how to use it until someone showed me). The M6D only shot randomly when the Trigger was held, but when pulsed, it had no spread and shot straight.
A quick test showed that from the distance of 60 meters, shooting one bullet per two seconds, the shots from an M6D hit and area that had a diameter of about 4 bullet holes, or about the size of a Mark V head. Most bullets were inside the 1.5 hole diameter, but some strayed outside. The spread for BR55HBSR bullet 1 is, at max, half the Spartans's head. That's the radius, so the spreads are actually pretty much equal. So the first bullet's spread is the same, the latter ones spread more.

  • 01.30.2009 6:58 AM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

A quick test showed that from the distance of 60 meters, shooting one bullet per two seconds, the shots from an M6D hit and area that had a diameter of about 4 bullet holes, or about the size of a Mark V head. Most bullets were inside the 1.5 hole diameter, but some strayed outside. The spread for BR55HBSR bullet 1 is, at max, half the Spartans's head. That's the radius, so the spreads are actually pretty much equal. So the first bullet's spread is the same, the latter ones spread more.I'm not saying your test was the most accurate of tests, but I will admit that I was wrong. There is a degree of randomness while pulsing the Trigger. But, remember that this is without magnetism and a target. Shooting an opponent is completely different. As long as the reticule was over your target the bullet was going to hit more times than not. Bungie did a good job of masking the randomness in Halo:CE. Nothing seemed to be determined by randomness which is why it was so much more fun than Halo 3, where the randomness of the M6G Magnum is definitely noticeable from a range similar that of TopGold to TopMid on Guardian.

Therefore, Bungie's range control WAS based on randomness, however, in order to make the game enjoyable, they used a great deal of magnetism to make it close to non-existent. Now, with Halo 3 they take much of that magnetism away, and what do we find? Complaints about randomness. Did anyone complain about randomness in Halo 2? No, but they complained about the BR being overpowered, which it wasn't as a spawn weapon (much like the M6D).

What I'm getting at is that if they reverse their whole design on balancing range by simply eliminating randomness and magnetism, then nobody would complain about there being randomness in precision weapons and the weapons' range would be controlled by the size of the target or bullet speed instead of a random rational number. The weapons' range would not even be close to that of the M6D, which had a great deal of magnetism. But, as long as Bungie is going to use this much randomness in their "mid-range" precision weapons then they need the magnetism we had in Halo:CE and Halo 2 in order for it to not affect gameplay.

To be quite honest, I don't even care about the BR that much anymore. The BR's functionality is far from fixable as long as it sprays the way it does. I am more worried about a change to the single-shot weapons, like the M6G. There really is no reason why these weapons (Carbine, M6G, PR, Spiker, etc.) have SOOO much randomness. But if someone can give me a legitimate reason, I will give you a cookie. =)

[Edited on 01.30.2009 9:30 AM PST]

  • 01.30.2009 9:27 AM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Critical Mass93
Posted by: Prodigy117
Posted by: Critical Mass93
In my experience, the BR users are often overwhelmed at close range. The "Close range people" tend to often carry a Mid range weapon with them (like a BR or AR). I agree with you that the M6D was perfect when pulsed, I still use that trick when I play Custom Edition, But I think that the BR fills a similar role in Halo 3. The only problem with that is the burst does send off accuracy.


Well I think before you act like you understand Halo 3 you should at least get a 1,000 games under your belt, perhaps a highest skill of at least 30 as well. At your level yes the majority of the BR users will get overwhelmed by the AR but this is because they are learning how to use the BR and how to use grenades. When you get to the higher levels using the AR is generally a bad idea unless you are ambushing unaware players as you will probably find a grenade in your path followed by a burst or 2 from a BR to finish you off.

Also I would suggest the time to use the AR is when you are host as it is insanely overpowered in this scenario and most players will not be able to 4 shot you.

You think that just because I have played less games that I don't understand Halo 3? I have played several games with high ranked players who have still fallen to the ARs of Me and others. And gredades can be used by the lowest recruit effectively, the people at my rank are plenty good, even better than some at yours or higher. BR 4-shots are not the unbeatable strategy that you describe them as, they are beaten regularly in CQB scenarios and are defeated at long ranges by skilled snipers and laser users. Don't say that just because I am of lesser rank that I don't know what I am talking about.
You may want to clarify if the gamertag linked to your profile is your first one or not, because that can throw some people off on how much experience you have (and your *cough*.69 K/D ratio*cough*).

Anyway, those who understand Halo, and Halo 3, will know that a Grenade coupled with a Headshot weapon beats EVERYTHING at close-range, ESPECIALLY the Halo 3 BR. If someone is camping in the Sword room on The Pit with a Sword and I have a BR. Guess what? I toss a Grenade and run in there and "KAPOW," he's dead. You would NEVER catch me doing that with the AR or any other close-range weapon. BR, Carbine, M6G, and Sniper all give you that ability to kill a close-range advantage, provided you have a Frag. If I'm out of Grenades, which is a rarety, I'll probably use the AR or other close-range weapon situationally.

And, if you are consistently beating BR-wielders like you make it out to be, then you are not playing with very good players regardless of rank (which btw means nothing).

The reason why people complain about BR starts taking away from variety is because most people prefer it over most weapons, with its ability to fight at ALL ranges (except for long-range in Halo 3, of course) and it can defend against Power Weapons, unlike the AR, SMG, etc. Usually, and by usually I mean most of the time, when an AR user beats a BR user at close-range it is due to the BR-wielder having a missed grenade (usually due to lag) or not having a grenade at all. And, at mid-range the BR-wielder almost always wins (with a good connection and reasonably tight spread).

Though, with all this said, I'll use the M6G Magnum over the BR and AR anyday. It's more fun with similar capabilities as the BR.

[Edited on 01.30.2009 12:24 PM PST]

  • 01.30.2009 12:21 PM PDT
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I would have to agree with moosh. The BR is perfect just the way it is. If you have any compaints, either live with it or don't use it.

  • 01.30.2009 1:37 PM PDT