Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: hitman is a BK
i have a problem how come when i do a perfect 4 shot on somebody it doesnt kill them cause of my shots are not registering as much as they use to
go to theater watch one of your "legit 4 shots" i bet you only 1 to 2 of the 3 bullets actually hit.

  • 01.30.2009 3:31 PM PDT

Posted by: LAS3R123
Scotty should be slaped

I agree

  • 01.30.2009 3:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

The BR makes the game. If you can use it well you will play well. End of story.

It works fine. Yes, sometimes there are some issues online but that's just lag... If you play on LAN everything is solid.

  • 01.30.2009 8:58 PM PDT

The Battle Rifle is a good weapon. The only bad thing is network packaging.

You're at a serious disadvantage if you get that.

  • 01.31.2009 6:36 AM PDT

Quick and unpredictable strafes combined with steady fingered aim you'll be unstoppable.

  • 01.31.2009 8:15 AM PDT

Vrrin Vrrin, yeah here I come.

the BR in halo 3 has better accuracy, but iv'e always been sentimental to the AR, because its the master chief's signiture weapon.

  • 01.31.2009 12:24 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Jericho VI
the BR in halo 3 has better accuracy, but iv'e always been sentimental to the AR, because its the master chief's signiture weapon.
exactly the ar is the main halo weapon in games 1 and 3 and then the br you all love is a combination of the halo one pistol and ar

  • 01.31.2009 3:19 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Crunk N DaTrunk
As a frequent victim of packet loss, bullet feedback, and other off-host BS, BR spread is the last thing I care about.

I am more concerned with the bullets registering.
dont play online games with dialup

  • 01.31.2009 3:20 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Shadow Wolf7347
Posted by: Crunk N DaTrunk
As a frequent victim of packet loss, bullet feedback, and other off-host BS, BR spread is the last thing I care about.

I am more concerned with the bullets registering.
dont play online games with dialup
That's a little exaggerated. Dialup won't allow you to even play, as far as I know. Halo and LIVE requires high speed internet, which is not Dialup. Satellite won't work either, even though that technically is high speed. Either way, bullets not registering happens on the fastest of connections, just not as frequently. And on a College internet, that I'm willing to bet many Halo gamers play on, bullets not registering is a huge issue. Though, this isn't really BR-related since it affects all the weapons.

  • 01.31.2009 4:11 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: Shadow Wolf7347
Posted by: Crunk N DaTrunk
As a frequent victim of packet loss, bullet feedback, and other off-host BS, BR spread is the last thing I care about.

I am more concerned with the bullets registering.
dont play online games with dialup
That's a little exaggerated. Dialup won't allow you to even play, as far as I know. Halo and LIVE requires high speed internet, which is not Dialup. Satellite won't work either, even though that technically is high speed. Either way, bullets not registering happens on the fastest of connections, just not as frequently. And on a College internet, that I'm willing to bet many Halo gamers play on, bullets not registering is a huge issue. Though, this isn't really BR-related since it affects all the weapons.
geez kid its a joke and satelite does work my friend crushstilista has sateite, and my friend jeff death 48 has dialup and they both can play online.

  • 01.31.2009 10:18 PM PDT

I put the laughter in manslaughter

who was the doing the amazing artwork i see?

  • 01.31.2009 10:49 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: Shadow Wolf7347
Posted by: Crunk N DaTrunk
As a frequent victim of packet loss, bullet feedback, and other off-host BS, BR spread is the last thing I care about.

I am more concerned with the bullets registering.
dont play online games with dialup

Ignorance is not a reason to reply.

  • 02.01.2009 12:15 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I think, and it's been said before but worth repeating as it's an argument ender, is that the people who like the BR the way it is and the people who don't are from two different groups.

Group 1- The People Who Like the H3BR: These people are usually newcomers to the Halo franchise. That does not mean all of them. These people never lived in a world dominated by the BR, and don't understand why people complain about its accuracy. To them, the BR is and always has been the way it is today, random and useless past mid-range. They are used to a game where a certain amount of luck is involved to attain a victory, especially using a weapon such as the BR. Having it any other way is, to them, changing the entire game into something that isn't really Halo anymore. Again, this is not all people. I speak from experience, and this is what I've found out.

Group 2- The People Who Don't Like the H3BR: These are the long-time Halo players. They are the people that came from CE and H2 and understand what Halo used to be about; real aiming skill and what map control really meant. When they play Halo 3, they want to relive their past. Especially the Halo 2 players, who were never caught without a BR if they could avoid it. They see the difference between the BR then and the BR now, and it is glaring. For H3, the BR has been nerfed, but that's mostly because the way the game is built. Toss in a little bit of randomness in the spread combined with lag, and we get the whole mess of complaints about BR. What it really comes down to is this; the veteran Halo players (most of them anyways, I can't speak for all) want to play a game where skill is what matters the most, because that is what they know and love. Anything else is, to them, ridiculous. And what Halo 3 is about (in many playlists) is luck. Luck off the spawns, luck with your weapon spread, and luck in general. Sure, skill plays a factor, but it's not the dominant factor in the game like (in my opinion) it should be. That's why rank and level don't mean a whole lot.

Thank you for reading my wall. Disagree if you will, this is my opinion.

  • 02.01.2009 8:25 AM PDT

I disagree. I'm a long term campaign veteran, and have battled (as a noob to begin with, yes, I admit) through Halo 2 for a long time. Halo has, for very many, been Elites and vehicles and shotguns from the start.

However, one point in your description hit the nail.
"What it really comes down to is this; the [Anti-BR-spread people] (most of them anyways, I can't speak for all) want to play a game where skill is what matters the most, because that is what they know and love. Anything else is, to them, ridiculous"

My reasoning for the benefits of the BR spread are partially based on the fact that [mechanical] skill, because it is for tactical purposes random, is not what people should rely on in matches with closely skilled people. I think players should rely on attaining victories by gaining an advantage, whether it be surprise, a better position or a weapon better suited for the situation.

  • 02.01.2009 11:10 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

my br is tooo sikk

  • 02.01.2009 1:27 PM PDT
  • gamertag: s3anz2
  • user homepage:

I think the BR should be engraved with "hey look i don't suck" on the side

  • 02.01.2009 1:34 PM PDT

You dont know what you are talking about. The BR in Halo3 is the BR they wanted in Halo2. The range and spread are perfect . They should just have a social play list that's br's only so all of the people that complain can go there and practice. We all know that any body who complains about a gun from the needler to the sniper rifle or a map is just bad, not hardcore for halo just emotional to the point when every time they get out br'd they complain. They complain so much that all of there xbl friends avoid them. Now there here complaining on the forums. What I really think they want is BASIC TRAINING for everyone because they all need it. Thats what they realy want there just too embarrassed to say it. .....................................Make the flag bounce again.

  • 02.01.2009 2:53 PM PDT

Mythical Group

There is no greater catharsis than arguing on the Flood.

Beam Rifles are the best gun ever.

  • 02.01.2009 4:01 PM PDT

If it's broken and it's suppose to be broken doesn't that mean it's fixed.

I remember playing h2 before the update and how much i played after.
I would definitely play h3 more if the BR was like the h2 BR.

  • 02.01.2009 4:46 PM PDT

____________(˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜˜)_∏______
l | --------____.`=====.-.~:________\___|================[oo]
|_|||___/___/_/~```|_|_|_|``(o)----------<)

Problem? The BR is the most perfect gun ever made.

  • 02.01.2009 7:30 PM PDT

Call me Reach.

Beating a dead horse.

You guys are doing it.

Posted by: mtothewilson
I remember playing h2 before the update and how much i played after.
I would definitely play h3 more if the BR was like the h2 BR.

You've played almost 5,500 games. It seems like you like Halo 3 like it is.

[Edited on 02.01.2009 8:33 PM PST]

  • 02.01.2009 8:32 PM PDT

Posted by: XClutchxFactorX
my br is tooo sikk


How is having a 1.10 k/d at level 13 sick you bk?

  • 02.02.2009 2:04 PM PDT

My only question as of now would have to be, why can't we just have balance? Why does there need to be randomness associated with anything? Why can't the random factors be controlled by players such as "random" grenades being thrown across the map and a player being hit by one at the right moment because he was "randomly" there? That kind of randomness is fine because it's controlled by the players, not the game.

If there ever is a Halo 4 or whatever shooter Bungie decides to make (if they even make another shooter) my only wish would be that they make the guns balanced. No random properties associated with the weapons. No faulty netcode that drops bullets and decides the outcomes of firefights, etc...

I believe I've mentioned this before but Challenge Pro Mode Arena is a Quake 3 modification. It was built by players for players. One of the most interesting things that your average quake player will not notice about Q3 is that the shotgun's spread in Q3 by stock is somewhat random. What I mean is that there's roughly say...six or seven different kinds of animations for the shotgun's spread. I haven't done any real investigation into it, but I'm assuming it deals random damage as well, since the spread of the pellets are completely random each time.

In CPMA though, they fixed that. They modded the shotgun to deal a consistent spread each time it was shot. Here's the CPMA shotgun modified::

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3434/3249016680_63abb750af_o.j pg

As you see here, it's an octagon-style pattern. There's outside pellets, and then there's inside pellets. So essentially, there's two layers of pellets. Now the deviation of this weapon's spread is dictated by distance. The closer you are, the tighter the spread, and the farther you are, the larger the spacing of the bullets. This is called balance. This my friends is what the Battle Rifle or any weapon in Halo should be modeled like.

The Battle Rifle should be a weapon in Halo that on BTB maps, you shouldn't be able to four-shot someone across Sandtrap or Valhalla, but on maps such as Foundry, Guardian, and Pit, 4-shotting should be consistent in the hands of a skilled player.

The root of the entire problem though isn't just the BR spread/bullet refunding, it's the game itself.

How do you define Halo gameplay? Is it Halo CE-style, is it Halo 2, or is it Halo 3? I'd love to know why was there a need for a change between Halo CE and H2? Why duel wielding? Why have a lunging sword? Why have a plasma pistol that acts as a homing missle, and still does to some extent in Halo 3?

There's no such thing as the perfect game, but to use CPMA as an example, it is damn near the perfect game. From air-control, to rocket damage, to every single aspect of the game, it has been modified by the players for the players. Even CPMA's slogan is, "Deathmatch for players, by players." We can't say that about Halo can we?

Truth of the matter is, Bungie probably wants to make a near perfect game, but they're in restraints by Microsoft. Microsoft Studios is the worst publisher outside of EA Games. Instead of game designers actually designing the games, they have suits telling the designers what to do, which is wrong. Did anyone tell the lead designer of Super Mario Brothers how to make mario brothers? Nope. Did anyone tell the creator of Mega Man how to make mega man? Nope. God forbid that EA was to take over the franchise of Mega Man, we would never have a hard mega-man game again period.

If Halo 3 was on PC there really wouldn't be these problems, nor would there really be these discussions. Back before CPMA was built by modders, someone had to have spoken up on a game forum and said, ya know what? The Shotgun in Quake 3 isn't really consistent...well ID Software isn't gonna do anything to it...so it's up to us players to make it the way we want it to be. Gosh how I wish we could do the same for Halo.

Word of advice for a future Halo game that's going to feature random properties, please put into the custom options an option for toggling on/off or a numerical value option that allows us to shape and form the game the way we the players want to play it...not the way the MSFT Game Studio suits want.

  • 02.02.2009 3:03 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Hey, welcome Dan. It's hard to give up on a game you used to love isn't it?

I agree with everything. Why can't the spread just be consistent? Why can't the range be consistently controlled instead of random? Why can't the random properties of the weapons be controlled by the gamer, such as the M6D was? As a frequent gamer, I feel like the gaming industry is treating me like I need a little random luck to help me win a fight. As that is true in some cases, it really isn't what I and many other gamers want from the industry.

I should point something out, however, that some of us old-time Halo:CE fans seem to forget. Even with the M6D there was a degree of randomness while pulsing the trigger. The thing is, though, that it was almost unnoticeable due to the large amount of magnetism. With Halo 2 they seemed to keep that large amount of magnetism for its version of the BR. Halo 3 is where they decided to make a decrease in magnetism, which is why the BR is so much, more random and frustrating than it used to be. So the randomness has always been there, but the magnetism covered it up. It kinda makes me lose some of the respect I had for the Bungie team before Halo 2 and Halo 3.

There really is no reason for the randomness, except for maybe to please all the little kids that want to shoot guns that immitate real bullet trajectories uncontrolled by the gamer.

Ugh. It really sickens me to see what could potentially become of future gaming.

[Edited on 02.02.2009 4:22 PM PST]

  • 02.02.2009 4:03 PM PDT

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Hey, welcome Dan. It's hard to give up on a game you used to love isn't it?


It's hard to give up on games that your friends still play and games that have huge populations. I still play a lot of Quake 3 Arena by myself against the bots because it's 10x more challenging and consistent than any game of Halo 3...but yeah... btw...I'm not back, it's just that I was blacklisted for a month by Shiska for advertising a Shadowrun LAN over Christmas:o)



I agree with everything. Why can't the spread just be consistent? Why can't the range be consistently controlled instead of random? Why can't the random properties of the weapons be controlled by the gamer, such as the M6D was? As a frequent gamer, I feel like the gaming industry is treating me like I need a little random luck to help me win a fight. As that is true in some cases, it really isn't what I and many other gamers want from the industry.


Want a really interesting article to read? http://pc.ign.com/articles/949/949407p1.html It's titled: Editorial: Is Casual Gaming Destroying the Industry?
Or is it the other way around?

It's probably one of the best articles on gaming that I have read in YEARS. It is hands down the truth about the industry, and the sad thing about it is that it's probably not changing anytime soon. We will have to depend on indie devs to really breakout and design good quality games.


I should point something out, however, that some of us old-time Halo:CE fans seem to forget. Even with the M6D there was a degree of randomness while pulsing the trigger. The thing is, though, that it was almost unnoticeable due to the large amount of magnetism. With Halo 2 they seemed to keep that large amount of magnetism for its version of the BR. Halo 3 is where they decided to make a decrease in magnetism, which is why the BR is so much, more random and frustrating than it used to be. So the randomness has always been there, but the magnetism covered it up. It kinda makes me lose some of the respect I had for the Bungie team before Halo 2 and Halo 3.


I disagree about your points there. Yes, the pistol in CE did have a bloom to it that was random, however the bloom was player controlled just like in Shadowrun, and it was very consistent, barely ever did one miss their shots if they were skilled enough to aim the gun well.

As for the Halo 2 BR...pre patch it was basically the same as the current BR in Halo 3. The patch accidentally fixed the BR spread...which Bungie will say was not intended but I honestly call BS on that. The BR's spread post-patch Halo 2 did become tighter. Many people think that the bullets just shot a straight line but they actually didn't. This is why you can't 4-shot people on maps such as Containment and Coag, even Headlong. Maps such as Midship and Lockout, 4-shotting can become pretty consistent because that's WELL within the BR's intended range. The actual intended range of the BR's max potential is medium range, and the scope is to help for long range, but at long range, you're not suppose to be getting 4-shots...thus in H2, the BR's natural spread the burst actually did force players to LEAD their shots on moving players on maps such as Coag and Containment, etc...

Auto-aim is what made the BR's bullets bend toward the player when the player wasn't even aiming correctly, this is why a lot of MLG H2 pros BARELY ever moved their right stick because of the heavy auto-aim and the magnetism. There wasn't a point to be precise due to those two factors.

Funny thing is...Bungie seems to think that the same would happen if they were to tighten the spread in H3 to what it was in H2 but it wouldn't. The gun would actually be very difficult to shoot. Think about sniping as an example. Sniping has very low magnetism and very low auto-aim and it shoots in a straight line....and how much more difficult is it to snipe in h3 versus H2? In my opinion, it's a lot tougher. Now imagine the sniper rifle's current property being applied to the H3 BR...wouldn't it make the BR harder? Wouldn't it require more aim from the player? Wouldn't it allow skillful players to be rewarded for their raw aiming ability?

I'm not saying apply a sniper-aiming reticule to the BR...I'm simply saying, make the spread as tight as say a snipe shot and have the current magnetism and auto-aim on the BR and you've got a pretty kick ass weapon that's difficult to use and hard to master. That's how it should be.

Unfortunately though...people don't look at it that way. They're blinded by Bungie's so-called good design concepts and this whole thing of it's Bungie's game, they know what they're doing. Well...if they were teaching courses on how to design random properties in game design...yeah, they would be the best teachers for it.

  • 02.02.2009 4:50 PM PDT