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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: dan91bauer
Want a really interesting article to read? http://pc.ign.com/articles/949/949407p1.html It's titled: Editorial: Is Casual Gaming Destroying the Industry?
Or is it the other way around?

It's probably one of the best articles on gaming that I have read in YEARS. It is hands down the truth about the industry, and the sad thing about it is that it's probably not changing anytime soon. We will have to depend on indie devs to really breakout and design good quality games.
I've actually already read it, seeing as how I check Gamer's Corner from time to time. It was definitely a good read.

I disagree about your points there. Yes, the pistol in CE did have a bloom to it that was random, however the bloom was player controlled just like in Shadowrun, and it was very consistent, barely ever did one miss their shots if they were skilled enough to aim the gun well. I was only stating that the weapon had a random aspect even when controlled by the player. I tested it out a few days ago, and it turned out that you can have your reticule off of your opponent but the bullets will still hit due to magnetism, yet it is also inconsistent. This meant that your aim really didn't require as much precision as one would think. One random bullet was unnoticeable since the game forced all the bullets to hit due to the game forcing it upon your target. I also tested the M6D with intervals of about 1 or 2 secs in between shots from one side of Prisoner to the other side and a random bullet did go off target ever once in a while. Yes, the randomness did not affect gameplay, but some of that had to do with the magnetism and auto-aim.

I'm not saying apply a sniper-aiming reticule to the BR...I'm simply saying, make the spread as tight as say a snipe shot and have the current magnetism and auto-aim on the BR and you've got a pretty kick ass weapon that's difficult to use and hard to master. That's how it should be.I'm a fan of the single-shot weapon, which is why I prefer to use a Magnum over the BR. The only thing I don't enjoy, though, is that Bungie tries too hard to control the range of these weapons. They make them random. Why exactly is beyond me. The Magnum's range can be controlled by the size of the target and the speed of the bullet. There is no need for it to shoot sporadically.

The problem, though, with the BR, is that it is a burst-fire weapon. As long as it shoots in 3-bullet bursts headshots will require little skill. Headshots, to me anway, should be what determines the skill. Bungie, however, feels that 4-shotting should determine the skill, which is why it has such a wide spread, to make 4-shotting harder, yet inconsistent. What tightening the spread does is transfer the skill over to the Headshot. Tightening the spread makes body shots easier but headshots harder. I really believe that the BR should be a single-shot for this reason, but I would definitely enjoy the weapon more if it had a tighter spread. The only issue though is that the tightening of the spread will not work with "Bungie's" Default starting weapon, the AR, which they refuse to change.

Unfortunately though...people don't look at it that way. They're blinded by Bungie's so-called good design concepts and this whole thing of it's Bungie's game, they know what they're doing. Well...if they were teaching courses on how to design random properties in game design...yeah, they would be the best teachers for it.Yeah, some of things we post that others greatly disagree would probably have a totally different opinion if our name was Shishka or another employee. I'm actually quite curious if BerserkerBarage would agree with Bungie's designs if Halo 3 were all BR starts and with Halo:CE-like balance.

[Edited on 02.02.2009 6:22 PM PST]

  • 02.02.2009 6:02 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

No, I probably wouldn't agree with them. Mainly because I don't see M6D starts as balanced in HCE. I still think that AR/M6G starts are the best balance we've had. And I'm glad that we are finally realizing that the M6D had built in randomness. It must kill you guys to know that.

~B.B.

  • 02.03.2009 10:44 AM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
No, I probably wouldn't agree with them. Mainly because I don't see M6D starts as balanced in HCE. I still think that AR/M6G starts are the best balance we've had. And I'm glad that we are finally realizing that the M6D had built in randomness. It must kill you guys to know that.

~B.B.
I was just giving you a hard time. At least we can both agree that the M6G should be a starting weapon on AR starts, though I believe it deserves an improvement to its range.

But, as for the M6D being random, it could be controlled to make it very accurate, and the randomness was covered up by the great amount of magnetism. So, randomness didn't play a huge part in M6D battles. As long as your reticule was over your target the bullet, for the most part, was going to hit. This is similar to how the Halo 2 BR was, but with Halo 3's version the randomness is so evident due to the widening of the spread and decrease in bullet magnetism. In Halo 3, if two people have their reticule covering about 50% of their target only one will hit the target due to the spread being random, whether it be a M6G or a BR, and there not being any bullet magnetism to make the fight fair for both opponents. Now, I'm not exactly a fan of assisting the bullet onto the target, but since the spreads were random it worked and was enjoyable.

Imagine if a weapon, like the M6D but more along the lines of the M6G, was a single-shot and had little to no auto-aim and little to no bullet magnetism. It could be a 4/5-shot where the RoF was controlled. And by controlled I mean the faster you make your RoF the more random it is, the slower you make your RoF the less random it is, and at a certain rate it has no randomness at all. The range would then be controlled by the player, bullet speed, and the size of the target.

Either way, the less random you design things the more enjoyable the experience is and the more skillful things are. The M6D just simply lacked enough randomness to affect gameplay, which is why we enjoyed the game so much.

[Edited on 02.03.2009 11:23 AM PST]

  • 02.03.2009 11:21 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

I figured you were either joking or checking to see if I was still reading this thread Jiggy. I'm not sure the exact range of the M6G but I'm pretty sure I tested it (months ago) and I'm pretty sure on Onslaught that it can reach side to side. Although it's pretty hard without your target standing still (which mine were since I was doing split-screen).

I'm also not sure if the bullet speed for the M6G is the same speed of the BR. If it's not, I'd love to see that increased to match. Although I don't any weapon mechanics are getting changed this late in the game, but it's fun to think about.

~B.B.

  • 02.03.2009 4:30 PM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
And I'm glad that we are finally realizing that the M6D had built in randomness. It must kill you guys to know that.

~B.B.


Welcome to 8 years ago. No one disputed that the M6D had a slight randomness to it, yet you act like you're privy to some secret knowledge that we are all unaware of.

The degree of randomness in the M6D, however, was small enough that it was a non-factor if you aimed correctly. Randomness had zero impact on the outcome of a battle. The same cannot be said of the BR, and that's where the issue lies.

[Edited on 02.03.2009 5:51 PM PST]

  • 02.03.2009 5:51 PM PDT

Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
And I'm glad that we are finally realizing that the M6D had built in randomness. It must kill you guys to know that.

~B.B.


Welcome to 8 years ago. No one disputed that the M6D had a slight randomness to it, yet you act like you're privy to some secret knowledge that we are all unaware of.

The degree of randomness in the M6D, however, was small enough that it was a non-factor if you aimed correctly. Randomness had zero impact on the outcome of a battle. The same cannot be said of the BR, and that's where the issue lies.


I don't think anyone would be complaining about the BR if it shared the same exact properties of the CE pistol's bloom. I mean, I played over 2-3 years of Battlefield 2 PC and the M16 rifle in that game has a 3-round burst with signficant recoil and signficant reticule bloom, and not a single soul had a problem with that weapon because it was CONTROLLED by the player...not the game.

People will never understand that about Halo 3. Bungie doesn't seem to understand it either...or they do and they simply don't care. If the spread in the H3 BR was player-controlled...then it would be the fault of the player not scoring a 4-shot kill...but no...as it stands right now, it's the fault of the game and the fault of Bungie designing it that way.

  • 02.03.2009 7:28 PM PDT

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The Br is perfect?

  • 02.04.2009 7:21 AM PDT

Posted by: dan91bauer
I don't think anyone would be complaining about the BR if it shared the same exact properties of the CE pistol's bloom. I mean, I played over 2-3 years of Battlefield 2 PC and the M16 rifle in that game has a 3-round burst with signficant recoil and signficant reticule bloom, and not a single soul had a problem with that weapon because it was CONTROLLED by the player...not the game.

People will never understand that about Halo 3. Bungie doesn't seem to understand it either...or they do and they simply don't care. If the spread in the H3 BR was player-controlled...then it would be the fault of the player not scoring a 4-shot kill...but no...as it stands right now, it's the fault of the game and the fault of Bungie designing it that way.


Exactly; player control is what we want. I don't want the BR to be able to score 4 shot kills across the map by every player, but I don't want it to be impossible for the incredibly skilled.

Bungies problem is that they recognize an issue, but implement a terrible solution. Rather than controlling the range and effectiveness of a weapon by using good design, they make it easy to do, but only work 75% of the time. Thats bad design.

  • 02.04.2009 9:07 AM PDT

Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: dan91bauer
I don't think anyone would be complaining about the BR if it shared the same exact properties of the CE pistol's bloom. I mean, I played over 2-3 years of Battlefield 2 PC and the M16 rifle in that game has a 3-round burst with signficant recoil and signficant reticule bloom, and not a single soul had a problem with that weapon because it was CONTROLLED by the player...not the game.

People will never understand that about Halo 3. Bungie doesn't seem to understand it either...or they do and they simply don't care. If the spread in the H3 BR was player-controlled...then it would be the fault of the player not scoring a 4-shot kill...but no...as it stands right now, it's the fault of the game and the fault of Bungie designing it that way.


Exactly; player control is what we want. I don't want the BR to be able to score 4 shot kills across the map by every player, but I don't want it to be impossible for the incredibly skilled.

Bungies problem is that they recognize an issue, but implement a terrible solution. Rather than controlling the range and effectiveness of a weapon by using good design, they make it easy to do, but only work 75% of the time. Thats bad design.



I don't think they will ever get it.

  • 02.04.2009 11:03 AM PDT
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Am i only one (or more like part of the forum minority?) who's completly satisfied with the battle rifle and thinks it works just as it should?
Easy weapon to use, good all-around weapon, loses against close range weapons and close range and is not sniper... I have no problems hitting people at medium range.

  • 02.04.2009 11:20 AM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/Account/profile.aspx?uid=3622021
Thats my old account.

Long time Bungie fan, I love videogames and such.

Everybody needs to cut the MLG crap, and play the game for fun. The BR isn't "broken", whiny 14 year old's just need something to blame their failure on. That's all it is.

  • 02.04.2009 4:08 PM PDT

its a state of mind my friend its a state of mind

amen

  • 02.05.2009 12:41 AM PDT

Posted by: Ryukage
What? Play a game? FOR FUN???
This concept of fun confuses and infuriates me!

Posted by: Iapetus
Everybody needs to cut the MLG crap, and play the game for fun. The BR isn't "broken", whiny 14 year old's just need something to blame their failure on. That's all it is.

Tru7h.

  • 02.05.2009 1:50 AM PDT
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The BR is fine, and if you have the time to research it, makes perfect sense.

  • 02.05.2009 3:49 AM PDT
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no it is most definatley not perfect.Okay just FYI this isnt a serious post it's more like a haha that's right post.

In Halo 2 the BR sounded like "BOOM,BOOM,BOOM" from what i could tell...However now they made it sound like it lost a couple hundred pounds and now sounds like "ta,ta,ta" please bring back the beastly booming sounds of the old BR i think it would be amazing.

  • 02.05.2009 1:50 PM PDT

"Run coward, I am Sinistar. I hunger coward!"

-Sinistar

Posted by: Kaziln

In Halo 2 the BR sounded like "BOOM,BOOM,BOOM" from what i could tell...However now they made it sound like it lost a couple hundred pounds and now sounds like "ta,ta,ta" please bring back the beastly booming sounds of the old BR i think it would be amazing.

  • 02.05.2009 1:52 PM PDT

Posted by: Iapetus
Everybody needs to cut the MLG crap, and play the game for fun. The BR isn't "broken", whiny 14 year old's just need something to blame their failure on. That's all it is.


not defending those 14 year olds who cant use the br... but i play MLG for the fun of the game... i believe that the AR is to overpowered and TOO balanced against other ARs... the deal with "run at ur enemy while he runs at you guns a-blazin and end with a final beatdown killing you both" seems really dumb to me

  • 02.05.2009 5:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: Iapetus
Everybody needs to cut the MLG crap, and play the game for fun. The BR isn't "broken", whiny 14 year old's just need something to blame their failure on. That's all it is.


Actually the majority of MLG players are mature high school and college students. Merriam Webster gives the definiton of error as an act involving an unintentional deviation from truth or accuracy. Now when I pull the trigger to tell three bullets to fly into an enemy's head, but the game makes only 2 hit and one fly past his head, that to me is a problem.

Now imagine you in that BR situation and you die because of a " small margin of error". Because you die the enemy is able to pick up flag and move the flag mid map. But your teammates track him down and kill him. But because time has elapsed since your death, the enemy has had time to regroup with his team and is able to slay your teammates. With your team dead and you chasing far behind, they are able to score and win the game.

The opposing team talks trash to you and calls you a " noob" or what have you, because you were " outplayed" and "out skilled". But your loss was out of your hands. Fact is, you had a better BR than him. But you lost the game because of a "small margin of error". Are you happy with that? Do you mind losing when you should of won?

The outcome of a game should NEVER be decided because of random effect. While that game may sound unrealistic, it happens more often than you think. The sad part is Bungie sees that as the " way the game was designed". That is bull. Something needs to be done......

  • 02.05.2009 5:09 PM PDT
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Me Too

  • 02.05.2009 5:15 PM PDT

These hands you see before you will end the light of day. Your ashes will be cast into the wind! Your blood's upon the soil, your body fed to wolves, not one of you will be left alive...!

Hand of Doom by Manowar

Posted by: soooo ahhh yea
Posted by: Iapetus
Everybody needs to cut the MLG crap, and play the game for fun. The BR isn't "broken", whiny 14 year old's just need something to blame their failure on. That's all it is.


Actually the majority of MLG players are mature high school and college students. Merriam Webster gives the definiton of error as an act involving an unintentional deviation from truth or accuracy. Now when I pull the trigger to tell three bullets to fly into an enemy's head, but the game makes only 2 hit and one fly past his head, that to me is a problem.

Now imagine you in that BR situation and you die because of a " small margin of error". Because you die the enemy is able to pick up flag and move the flag mid map. But your teammates track him down and kill him. But because time has elapsed since your death, the enemy has had time to regroup with his team and is able to slay your teammates. With your team dead and you chasing far behind, they are able to score and win the game.

The opposing team talks trash to you and calls you a " noob" or what have you, because you were " outplayed" and "out skilled". But your loss was out of your hands. Fact is, you had a better BR than him. But you lost the game because of a "small margin of error". Are you happy with that? Do you mind losing when you should of won?

The outcome of a game should NEVER be decided because of random effect. While that game may sound unrealistic, it happens more often than you think. The sad part is Bungie sees that as the " way the game was designed". That is bull. Something needs to be done......


QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

  • 02.05.2009 5:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Inconsistant and random gameplay elements is what's stoping me from playing this game as much as I use to. The fact that Bungie countinues to ignore this issue along with the broken hit detection on the Sniper Rifle and Energy Sword, along with the terrible spawn system makes me question why I even bother playing the damn game.

  • 02.05.2009 9:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: Blaq Jac21
BR BEAST<<<<<<<<<<<
quoted for epic failure

  • 02.06.2009 9:12 AM PDT

-Salem I'odiato Salvatore
For the time that ive been given, I am who I am, Never to your desires.

br owns deal with it.........................plz

  • 02.06.2009 4:27 PM PDT