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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

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Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
A more accurate BR would actually make players who are already bad with it worse. If your even a fraction off the target in H2 your bullets will absolutely not hit. The instant the reticule isn't red your probably not going to hit a single bullet.


In Halo 2 there were multiple issues with the BR. We had the auto-aim and bullet magnetism higher meaning provided the reticule was red you would definately land a shot, we had hitscan meaning provided the reticule was red the BR bullets would always hit regardless of distance or quick cover and as a result ending up with the whole 'sniping around corners' issue. And don't even get me started on the button combos; BXR, BXB, 2S, 3S, 4S and many more ruined the game for CQB players, the SMGs and Plasma Rifles were useless.

And a fraction of the target? Provided the reticule was red every bullet would home in on the target regardless of distance or cover. The Hitscan really messed it up but the AA & Magnetism messed it up even worse.

Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
All these people who don't understand think that by decreasing the size of the spread you are making the br into a sniper rifle... but that's not true. As long as there is a spread the BR can never even be compared to a sniper. You should get rewarded for accuracy, not hope to get lucky when you miss a shot. I know if I'm half off my target with my reticule, there is still a good chance that all the bullets will hit the target. In H2 if I was the same amount off I would be lucky to hit with 1 bullet out of the three.


If you miss a shot then obviously you're either missing your shots or you aren't at the right distance to the target. Halo 3 is about weapon matchups rather than having one overall powerful weapon, the BR in Halo 2 was way overpowered. Sniper was outmatched due to a slower quickscope than compared to Halo 3 and the SMG & Plasma Rifles were destroyed in CQB.

Plus I haven't seen or heard of an MLG Pro complaining about the BR as of yet.

  • 05.05.2009 7:01 AM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: Air Sparrow

In Halo 2 there were multiple issues with the BR. We had the auto-aim and bullet magnetism higher meaning provided the reticule was red you would definately land a shot, we had hitscan meaning provided the reticule was red the BR bullets would always hit regardless of distance or quick cover and as a result ending up with the whole 'sniping around corners' issue. And don't even get me started on the button combos; BXR, BXB, 2S, 3S, 4S and many more ruined the game for CQB players, the SMGs and Plasma Rifles were useless.

And a fraction of the target? Provided the reticule was red every bullet would home in on the target regardless of distance or cover. The Hitscan really messed it up but the AA & Magnetism messed it up even worse.


If you miss a shot then obviously you're either missing your shots or you aren't at the right distance to the target. Halo 3 is about weapon matchups rather than having one overall powerful weapon, the BR in Halo 2 was way overpowered. Sniper was outmatched due to a slower quickscope than compared to Halo 3 and the SMG & Plasma Rifles were destroyed in CQB.

Plus I haven't seen or heard of an MLG Pro complaining about the BR as of yet.


You can still snipe around corners in this game. It happens all the time. I've seen plenty of pictures of people shooting a wall or even a rise in the ground just to have the bullet go straight through it into someone's head on the other side who couldn't see the shooter.

I agree BXR was -blam!-. Anyone could do it. I had no problem with BXB because you still had time to react and fight back if someone was doing it to you. As many people who claim to be able to doubleshot back when Halo 3 was just coming out I barely knew anyone who could that didn't play MLG or THC. Even then, it was hard to do and it took some serious skill to be able to double shot and actually hit someone with two double shots in a row. Now go and play Halo 2 and almost everyone doubleshots like its no one's business. And you know what, if you can consistently hit someone with doubleshots you are more than likely able to 4 shot people a large majority of the time on H2. I've never even heard of those "S" glitches your talking about.

I understand the concept of leading my shots. I get that it makes sense in the real world. But this is Halo. When you go into a game and there is lag the amount that you have to lead your shots changes. Its inconsistent at best. At least in H2 when there was a relatively decent connection you would always know when your bullets are going to hit. How does making it so that the amount you have to lead your shots by changes with latency because you really have no clue where your target could be in a game that really isn't even that lag improve the br?

Yeah, if you move your cross hair a fraction off the target so it becomes blue again you miss every single bullet almost every time. You might get lucky once in a while and hit one bullet.

What I'm saying in H3 is that players are rewarded for inaccuracy. It is not uncommon to have your reticule be blue and hit all 3 bullets multiple times in one br battle. In Halo 2 if your reticule wasn't on the target you weren't going to get anything out of it. People should be rewarded for accuracy. In Halo 3 where accuracy relies more heavily on latency which is something that is changing constantly that players can't control or really make up for with their skills the BR becomes inconsistent.

The reason you don't see MLG pros complaining about the BR is because they don't post on bungie forums or the MLG forums complaining about anything usually.

  • 05.05.2009 10:48 AM PDT
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its because mat your a Captian Grade 3

  • 05.05.2009 11:40 AM PDT

Andy Green

my br goes bang bang headshot

  • 05.05.2009 12:12 PM PDT
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Mine goes.... "zzzzzzzzz pew...... blat" >_<
That's suppose to be a plasma pistol and BR. =o

  • 05.05.2009 6:15 PM PDT

Marcus

same

  • 05.05.2009 6:18 PM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
You can still snipe around corners in this game. It happens all the time. I've seen plenty of pictures of people shooting a wall or even a rise in the ground just to have the bullet go straight through it into someone's head on the other side who couldn't see the shooter.


Yes but it doesn't happen nearly as often as Halo 2. Halo 2 was far worse and the hitscan was the problem rather than just the latency on it's own. By removing the hitscan you remove the offline 'Sniping around corners' situation completely.

I agree BXR was -blam!-. Anyone could do it. I had no problem with BXB because you still had time to react and fight back if someone was doing it to you. As many people who claim to be able to doubleshot back when Halo 3 was just coming out I barely knew anyone who could that didn't play MLG or THC. Even then, it was hard to do and it took some serious skill to be able to double shot and actually hit someone with two double shots in a row. Now go and play Halo 2 and almost everyone doubleshots like its no one's business. And you know what, if you can consistently hit someone with doubleshots you are more than likely able to 4 shot people a large majority of the time on H2. I've never even heard of those "S" glitches your talking about.

2xS = Double Shotting
3xS = Triple Shotting
4xS = Quad Shotting

In any case the BR had weapon glitches that overpowered it in CQB, I think we can both agree on that, I have heard of Doubleshotting on Halo 3 but I've not seen it yet first person.


I understand the concept of leading my shots. I get that it makes sense in the real world. But this is Halo. When you go into a game and there is lag the amount that you have to lead your shots changes. Its inconsistent at best. At least in H2 when there was a relatively decent connection you would always know when your bullets are going to hit. How does making it so that the amount you have to lead your shots by changes with latency because you really have no clue where your target could be in a game that really isn't even that lag improve the br?

So you are basically saying that in a laggy game of Halo 3 it's more inconsistent for the amount of leading you have to put on your shots compared to a decent game of Halo 2? Sorry but that's just plain obvious.

Yeah, if you move your cross hair a fraction off the target so it becomes blue again you miss every single bullet almost every time. You might get lucky once in a while and hit one bullet.

Yes, when it becomes Blue. Now I know that at close range the BR will act the same on Halo 2 but at a futher range you'll start missing shots the less centered you have the BR even if the reticule is red. Halo 2 didn't matter the distance, provided the reticule was red the center of the reticule could be several meters off target and you'd still get a four shot out of it. Seems a bit unfair to have homing bullets at that range, neither sniper or laser has anything like that on Halo 3, why should the BR?

What I'm saying in H3 is that players are rewarded for inaccuracy. It is not uncommon to have your reticule be blue and hit all 3 bullets multiple times in one br battle. In Halo 2 if your reticule wasn't on the target you weren't going to get anything out of it. People should be rewarded for accuracy. In Halo 3 where accuracy relies more heavily on latency which is something that is changing constantly that players can't control or really make up for with their skills the BR becomes inconsistent.

Rewarded for inaccuracy? If you are missing shots and the reticule is centered you and your opponent are not very experienced, Halo 3 is more about weapon matchups and positioning than relying on dumb luck. You need a longer range weapon. Think Sniper, Laser, maybe Pistols? etc.

In Halo 3 if your reticule isn't on target you won't get anything out of it either, Halo 2 actually had a bullet homing system due to the hitscan and made attacking at a range easier. In Halo 2 you would be more likely to get the kill due to the extended range. Seems a little unfair when it's supposed to be a close-to-mid range weapon and not long range.

The latency issues are on Halo 2 and in some cases can be even worse than Halo 3, the hitscan made up for the long range problems but it also exaggerated the sniping around corners issue and created an offline sniping around corners issue.

The reason you don't see MLG pros complaining about the BR is because they don't post on bungie forums or the MLG forums complaining about anything usually.

So it's safe to assume that they like how that game has been made? I know I do, but I'd prefer it if the BR had an in-built coffee machine and a sugar dispenser.

[Edited on 05.05.2009 8:54 PM PDT]

  • 05.05.2009 8:52 PM PDT

Posted by: Air Sparrow
Rewarded for inaccuracy? If you are missing shots and the reticule is centered you and your opponent are not very experienced, Halo 3 is more about weapon matchups and positioning than relying on dumb luck. You need a longer range weapon. Think Sniper, Laser, maybe Pistols? etc.

I'd rather this game be about skill and tactics instead of a rock, paper, scissors match. Running around looking for the "right weapon" is NOT fun, and it severely slows the pace of the game.

So it's safe to assume that they like how that game has been made?
More like MLG doesn't want pro players publicly criticizing their sponsors.

  • 05.06.2009 11:05 AM PDT
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Tbh I really dont like the BR , And the fact that Most Team doubles matches now consist of Team Br , Just annoys me

  • 05.06.2009 2:17 PM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Posted by: Nokterne
I'd rather this game be about skill and tactics instead of a rock, paper, scissors match. Running around looking for the "right weapon" is NOT fun, and it severely slows the pace of the game.


Rock, Paper, Scissors? It's far more complex than that but you have the basics down I suppose.

Think of the weapons as a Rock, Paper, Scissors element. It's one part of the game, now Vehicles add into that with a separate Rock, Paper, Scissors element that is able to tie in pretty well. Grenades are able to break camping when used well and Equipment can be used to change the tide in a battle (Trip Mine or Power Drain on a Vehicle, Regenerator against any light fire and Bubble shield against any heavy fire. Radar Jammer assisting in breaking camps.

Of course you also have Powerups which serve to give one team a temporary edge, whether that's an invisible player or invincible player, this assists in breaking camps and control over weapons and map areas. Finally we have vantage points, points of the map to control in order to win that are higher up, less susceptable to fire or harbor a/several weapons and/or vehicles. Throw the teamwork and callouts into that and you can hardly call it a simple rock, paper, scissors game.

Single weapon-to-weapon combat will always be rock, paper, scissors. But that's only a single part of the game. It's the reason why I don't like what MLG does with the maps, by removing vehicles, equipment and a lot of the weapons they derail the game into simple rock, paper, scissors games combined with a bit of 'tactically holding the opposing team down in their spawns'.

More like MLG doesn't want pro players publicly criticizing their sponsors.

That's possible but everyone has their own opinions and MLG likely knows that the player's opinions can't possibly reflect their own. Bungie likely knows this too and even if a few of the MLG players were to publicly criticize the BR or any other weapon then I doubt they'd take it all that seriously. If they did and MLG collapsed as a result it'd be a pretty lousy organization, I doubt Bungie alone are the only thing keeping MLG going, I always figured that hatred of vehicles, equipment and tactics did that.

  • 05.07.2009 3:49 AM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Oops, sorry.

Glitch = Double Post.

[Edited on 05.07.2009 3:52 AM PDT]

  • 05.07.2009 3:50 AM PDT

Posted by: Air Sparrow
Rock, Paper, Scissors? It's far more complex than that but you have the basics down I suppose.

Think of the weapons as a Rock, Paper, Scissors element. It's one part of the game, now Vehicles add into that with a separate Rock, Paper, Scissors element that is able to tie in pretty well. Grenades are able to break camping when used well and Equipment can be used to change the tide in a battle (Trip Mine or Power Drain on a Vehicle, Regenerator against any light fire and Bubble shield against any heavy fire. Radar Jammer assisting in breaking camps.

You're fooling yourself if you think equipment was actually a balanced addition to the game.

The Regen is a "get out of jail free card," as is the Bubbleshield (though the Bubble shield also gives close range weapons a ridiculous advantage)

The Radar Jammer is useless, and not even in MM anymore. Same with the Flare. The Trip Mine is hilariously weak. Deployable Cover is never used, and not in MM. The Power Drain is extremely overpowered. The Grav Lift is only used on Last Resort.

Equipment is by far the worst feature Bungie has ever added to Halo in terms of integration with the rest of the sandbox.

Of course you also have Powerups which serve to give one team a temporary edge, whether that's an invisible player or invincible player, this assists in breaking camps and control over weapons and map areas. Finally we have vantage points, points of the map to control in order to win that are higher up, less susceptable to fire or harbor a/several weapons and/or vehicles. Throw the teamwork and callouts into that and you can hardly call it a simple rock, paper, scissors game.
Alright, it's a "complex" rock, paper, scissors game. It's still a game where the weapon you happen to be holding at the time of an encounter plays too large a part in who wins. Halo is more fun (or rather, less frustrating) when aim, positioning, and tactics play a larger role in achieving victory.

Single weapon-to-weapon combat will always be rock, paper, scissors.
Not true at all. Have you played any FPS's other then Halo 3?

But that's only a single part of the game. It's the reason why I don't like what MLG does with the maps, by removing vehicles, equipment and a lot of the weapons they derail the game into simple rock, paper, scissors games combined with a bit of 'tactically holding the opposing team down in their spawns'.
How can it be rock, paper, scissors when the majority of fights involve two players holding the same weapon, with the occasional skill-based power weapon thrown in? The purpose of removing all of those elements was to place more emphasis on core FPS skills, and less on this rock, paper, scissors combat we've been discussing.

The ultimate goal of the MLG gametypes is to determine who has the best "core" skill. By core skill, I mean aim, teamwork, positioning, strategy, tactics, quick-thinking etc. Anything they have removed is something they see as diverting the importance of these skills in the game.

That's possible but everyone has their own opinions and MLG likely knows that the player's opinions can't possibly reflect their own. Bungie likely knows this too and even if a few of the MLG players were to publicly criticize the BR or any other weapon then I doubt they'd take it all that seriously. If they did and MLG collapsed as a result it'd be a pretty lousy organization, I doubt Bungie alone are the only thing keeping MLG going, I always figured that hatred of vehicles, equipment and tactics did that.
First of all, MLG players HAVE publicly criticized the game. I'm sorry if you got the impression that they haven't.

Secondly, MLG players, as a group, don't "hate" any element of the game. They just prefer removing the things that are imbalanced, make the game slower, or create inconsistent outcomes.

  • 05.07.2009 7:39 AM PDT
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Dude BR is a massive distruction weapon and if you do not like it you will have difficultys. BR is a mid-Range wep. The carabine is worst then the BR (well the BR is great) it takes skill and practice to have a clean BR. If you hate bungie that much MAN QUIT.

  • 05.07.2009 5:19 PM PDT
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achronos will u give me recon

  • 05.07.2009 9:53 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

If they made a human version of the carbine (same rate of fire, and single burst), then that would be THE best and most skilled weapon in the game. The BR takes too long between burst, and the rhythm is fubar. The only problem with the carbine, is that the green tracers make it difficult to see if you're even hitting your opponent. The BR needs to be retired for good after H3. It's just not a good design for online play.

  • 05.08.2009 4:15 AM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Posted by: Nokterne
You're fooling yourself if you think equipment was actually a balanced addition to the game.

The Regen is a "get out of jail free card," as is the Bubbleshield (though the Bubble shield also gives close range weapons a ridiculous advantage)

The Radar Jammer is useless, and not even in MM anymore. Same with the Flare. The Trip Mine is hilariously weak. Deployable Cover is never used, and not in MM. The Power Drain is extremely overpowered. The Grav Lift is only used on Last Resort.

Equipment is by far the worst feature Bungie has ever added to Halo in terms of integration with the rest of the sandbox.


Been watching T2's Tips on MLGPro.com or Shadowhawks Guides? They talk about grabbing equipment quite a lot, the problem with Halo 3 used to be who saw whom first, now with the addition of the Power Drain, Regenerator and Bubble shield it's possible to turn the tide provided you grabbed one earlier. The more I argue with you guys the more it sounds like the only thing you use on Halo 3 is the BR. Try other weapons sometimes, you'll be surprised what they can do. :)

Alright, it's a "complex" rock, paper, scissors game. It's still a game where the weapon you happen to be holding at the time of an encounter plays too large a part in who wins. Halo is more fun (or rather, less frustrating) when aim, positioning, and tactics play a larger role in achieving victory.

But Aim, Positioning and Tactics can only go so far. The entire COD series is a good example, on the MLG settings it's practically Halo 3's Team SWAT with an addition of several other identical weapons.

Not true at all. Have you played any FPS's other then Halo 3?

Not too many others, COD4, COD5/WAW, Shadowrun Unreal Tournament (Briefly) and Bad Company. Personally the whole COD series is just Team Swat, it's whoever sees whoever else first is the victor. No weapon advantages, no tactics, no strategy. Unreal Tournament feels more like a really bad RPG, but maybe people like that and Shadowrun was pure genius, too bad it had such a bad lag problem. Bad Company is brilliant, part COD as far as weapons and health go and part Shadowrun with Equipment and Jobs giving advantages in a rock-paper-scissors type shuffle.

Ask yourself how any FPS game plays out, it's either a Sight based game due to who sees whoever else first (such as COD or UT) or it's an Advantage based game such as Halo 3 or Shadowrun. Or a mix of the two such as Bad Company or the other Battlefield games. Those are the only three types, Sight, Advantage or Hybrid. Halo is an Advantage type, how else could an FPS play out apart from these types?

This 'Skill, Strategy and Tactics' you are talking about is based around the type of game, you clearly prefer the Sight Based games due to wanting aim and positioning as the main points of gameplay. Go play COD, Halo is clearly not for you.

How can it be rock, paper, scissors when the majority of fights involve two players holding the same weapon, with the occasional skill-based power weapon thrown in? The purpose of removing all of those elements was to place more emphasis on core FPS skills, and less on this rock, paper, scissors combat we've been discussing.

Core FPS Skills? Sighting and Advantage type games.

What skill is, is not down to the game or how it plays but how well the player can play it.

The ultimate goal of the MLG gametypes is to determine who has the best "core" skill. By core skill, I mean aim, teamwork, positioning, strategy, tactics, quick-thinking etc. Anything they have removed is something they see as diverting the importance of these skills in the game.

MLG is tries to make Halo into something it isn't, they should consider tuning up COD rather than Halo. In any case, by removing Vehicles, Equipment and the majority of the variety of weapons from each of the game they are removing Core Skills from the game. Teamwork plays a part, Positioning plays a part, Strategy plays a part, Tactics play a part, quick-thinking also plays a part, but by removing the other parts of the game it takes away from the experience.

Besides online Halo 3 doesn't even work as a competitive game, it's far too laggy. You should consider just playing it for fun rather than trying to make a fake 'skill' to it.

First of all, MLG players HAVE publicly criticized the game. I'm sorry if you got the impression that they haven't.

Really? Linky please.

Secondly, MLG players, as a group, don't "hate" any element of the game. They just prefer removing the things that are imbalanced, make the game slower, or create inconsistent outcomes.

Removing things that are inbalanced would mean removing all weapons besides one and by removing anything that creates inconsistent outcomes you would be removing all weapons besides Snipers and Rockets. Everything else has an at least slightly random spread. So you'd be playing either Team Snipers or Team Rockets, but to remove some of the lag issues online they wouldn't be able to use rockets so it'd become Team Snipers.

That's why MLG doesn't work, they've got their core skill ideals messed up in the first place. Don't get me wrong though, I don't hate it, it's good for working up Teamwork and BR Skills but as far as regular Halo goes it's worse than SSBB.

"FINAL DESTINATION, FOX ONLY!"

  • 05.08.2009 8:07 AM PDT

MINION222

All I would want from it is a smaller mag size like 24 rounds instead of 36. this would improve game play alot as players would have to reload more giving other with limited range weapons a chance to move close enough to use them. This would also make every BR fan vary mad as they complain about AR noobs spraying them to death and them not having a chance. Then they would know how it feels when you can't shoot back.

  • 05.08.2009 9:48 AM PDT

Posted by: Air Sparrow
Been watching T2's Tips on MLGPro.com or Shadowhawks Guides? They talk about grabbing equipment quite a lot, the problem with Halo 3 used to be who saw whom first, now with the addition of the Power Drain, Regenerator and Bubble shield it's possible to turn the tide provided you grabbed one earlier. The more I argue with you guys the more it sounds like the only thing you use on Halo 3 is the BR. Try other weapons sometimes, you'll be surprised what they can do. :)


The problem with equipment is that it is cheap and requires little skill to use. Players may just be lucky and happen to have picked up equipment from a dead body, equipment makes the game less fair, less skilled and adds a further element of luck. Not to mention its just frustrating and not fun.

But Aim, Positioning and Tactics can only go so far. The entire COD series is a good example, on the MLG settings it's practically Halo 3's Team SWAT with an addition of several other identical weapons.

You seem not to understand that halo is not a one-shot kill game (generally speaking obviously with the exception of sniper and rockets).

Ask yourself how any FPS game plays out, it's either a Sight based game due to who sees whoever else first (such as COD or UT) or it's an Advantage based game such as Halo 3 or Shadowrun. Or a mix of the two such as Bad Company or the other Battlefield games. Those are the only three types, Sight, Advantage or Hybrid. Halo is an Advantage type, how else could an FPS play out apart from these types?

This 'Skill, Strategy and Tactics' you are talking about is based around the type of game, you clearly prefer the Sight Based games due to wanting aim and positioning as the main points of gameplay. Go play COD, Halo is clearly not for you.


In Halo 3 it is definitely possible to outskill an opponent when they have the advantage, you do not necessarily have to outshoot them either you can utilise cover, grenades or unexpected tactics such as running into cover then jumping straight back out when still weak giving you the element of surprise and perhaps enough time to claw back the advantage etc etc. This is neither sight nor is it weapon/situation advantage it is 'Aim and Quick thinking' based if you like. Players are rewarded for making quick decisions and being creative and unpredictable in their movement and use of their surroundings. This is what makes halo such a great game.

MLG is tries to make Halo into something it isn't, they should consider tuning up COD rather than Halo. In any case, by removing Vehicles, Equipment and the majority of the variety of weapons from each of the game they are removing Core Skills from the game. Teamwork plays a part, Positioning plays a part, Strategy plays a part, Tactics play a part, quick-thinking also plays a part, but by removing the other parts of the game it takes away from the experience.

Not really they have changed halo 3 so that it is more like halo 1, skill based. Why is it that the best players in halo 3 almost exclusively play MLG and thats not just pros. Most of the best players play MLG because it is more fair and skill based. Equipment is frustrating and cheap, vehicles are frustrating, cheap and ridiculously overpowered on certain maps, AR SMG, Needler, Shotgun, close combat weapons in abundance are cheap and unskilled. Taking these aspects out of the game does not take away from the experience at all. The BR could be a lot better i.e. single shot with no spread but at the moment it's the best option for balanced skill based gameplay.

Removing things that are inbalanced would mean removing all weapons besides one and by removing anything that creates inconsistent outcomes you would be removing all weapons besides Snipers and Rockets. Everything else has an at least slightly random spread. So you'd be playing either Team Snipers or Team Rockets, but to remove some of the lag issues online they wouldn't be able to use rockets so it'd become Team Snipers.

That's why MLG doesn't work, they've got their core skill ideals messed up in the first place. Don't get me wrong though, I don't hate it, it's good for working up Teamwork and BR Skills but as far as regular Halo goes it's worse than SSBB.


The current settings in MLG are fairly well balanced, yes they are not perfectly balanced but they do give a good mix of utility weapons, power weapons and fair skill based gameplay. Halo 1 for example is well balanced and has quite a few weapons to choose from, it is possible to have balance and variety at the same time. Having a variety of skilled weapons allows for players to outplay their opponent, for example no scoping or quick scoping with the sniper is powerful but takes skill so a player may be one shot down to a BR wielder but manage to drop the other players shields and finish their opponent with a well placed BR shot. This is not an auto win like so many situations are with regular settings especially when a player AR charges you within a certain range, strafing and jumping is of little use in this situation as the AR is so easy to aim as opposed to the more akward BR that requires some precision especially on the last shot.

[Edited on 05.08.2009 11:04 AM PDT]

  • 05.08.2009 11:03 AM PDT
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Veto for ARs!!!!

I think that the BR is overpowered.

  • 05.08.2009 1:06 PM PDT

I disagree with any changes being made to the battle rifle. It is fine the way it is.

  • 05.08.2009 1:13 PM PDT
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The reason T2 does the G4TV Tips thing is because he gets paid. It is scripted and made for casual gamers.

  • 05.08.2009 3:09 PM PDT

Posted by: mooshmoossh
I like the BR just the way it is.

I really don't see what's wrong with it.
Same Here

  • 05.08.2009 6:06 PM PDT
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i think its the best weapon in the game it has a great distance shot its a ot more accurate than the assult rifle and the carbine and its harder to spot than the carbine and its ideal for head shots

  • 05.08.2009 7:21 PM PDT

The noob

ya know your right you should change the the BR back to never changing spread then it might make halo 3 more compettive and more fun^_^ & if it was like the halo 2 BR it would change from battles won by luck to battles won by skill:):)


[Edited on 05.09.2009 9:08 AM PDT]

  • 05.09.2009 9:06 AM PDT

Posted by: Air Sparrow
Been watching T2's Tips on MLGPro.com or Shadowhawks Guides? They talk about grabbing equipment quite a lot, the problem with Halo 3 used to be who saw whom first, now with the addition of the Power Drain, Regenerator and Bubble shield it's possible to turn the tide provided you grabbed one earlier. The more I argue with you guys the more it sounds like the only thing you use on Halo 3 is the BR. Try other weapons sometimes, you'll be surprised what they can do. :)

A significant problem with Halo 3 is the overwhelming advantage that first shot gives you. In my view, the main source of this issue is the high frequency of short-ranged combat in the game, combined with the mechanics of the games primary weapons (AR and BR).

This problem has been present since launch, and has not fluctuated as you suggest above. Adding any form of acquirable weapon or item (like equipment) is NOT going to fix this problem, because the problem is rooted in the mechanics of the game. In fact, the way equipment currently works is a ridiculous overcompensation for the problem, if it's purpose is what you say it is.

Not too many others, COD4, COD5/WAW, Shadowrun Unreal Tournament (Briefly) and Bad Company. Personally the whole COD series is just Team Swat, it's whoever sees whoever else first is the victor. No weapon advantages, no tactics, no strategy.
You seem to think that I view ANY weapon advantage as a bad thing. This is not the case. Weapon advantage adds to the skill required in a game because it forces people to adapt to different situations. My issue is that Halo 3 took this too far. Weapon advantage is too important. The ultimate decider in an encounter should be skill, not the weapon you were holding. If two equally skilled players begin an encounter, the one holding the better weapon should win. If a bad player holding a good weapon encounters a skilled player holding a starting weapon, the skilled player should win. Skill should be the ultimate decider.

Ask yourself how any FPS game plays out, it's either a Sight based game due to who sees whoever else first (such as COD or UT) or it's an Advantage based game such as Halo 3 or Shadowrun. Or a mix of the two such as Bad Company or the other Battlefield games. Those are the only three types, Sight, Advantage or Hybrid. Halo is an Advantage type, how else could an FPS play out apart from these types?

This 'Skill, Strategy and Tactics' you are talking about is based around the type of game, you clearly prefer the Sight Based games due to wanting aim and positioning as the main points of gameplay. Go play COD, Halo is clearly not for you.

You are taking an extremely oversimplified view on FPS games in general. Making a good FPS is about adjusting and balancing elements to fit a certain style of gameplay. You certainly cannot divide them into one of two categories.

Core FPS Skills? Sighting and Advantage type games.

What skill is, is not down to the game or how it plays but how well the player can play it.

I don't think you thought through this section of your post very well before you posted it.

MLG is tries to make Halo into something it isn't, they should consider tuning up COD rather than Halo. In any case, by removing Vehicles, Equipment and the majority of the variety of weapons from each of the game they are removing Core Skills from the game. Teamwork plays a part, Positioning plays a part, Strategy plays a part, Tactics play a part, quick-thinking also plays a part, but by removing the other parts of the game it takes away from the experience.
Please explain to me how equipment and vehicles add skill to the game. Seriously. I want to hear your reasoning.

Pay particular regard to "quick-thinking." I think we can all agree that generally, a faster game takes more skill. Convince me that equipment and vehicles don't slow down the game.

I'd also like to know how you would change the default game to make it more skillful. Or do you just consider it to be perfect out of the box?

Besides online Halo 3 doesn't even work as a competitive game, it's far too laggy. You should consider just playing it for fun rather than trying to make a fake 'skill' to it.
The reason I post on these boards is because I think Halo 3 could be MORE fun. Every change I would make to this game is centred around fun, not MLG or competition in general.

Really? Linky please.
Listen to any of the Gamers Corner podcasts where a pro is interviewed. There is a good post about the BR spread on the front page as well.

Removing things that are inbalanced would mean removing all weapons besides one and by removing anything that creates inconsistent outcomes you would be removing all weapons besides Snipers and Rockets. Everything else has an at least slightly random spread. So you'd be playing either Team Snipers or Team Rockets, but to remove some of the lag issues online they wouldn't be able to use rockets so it'd become Team Snipers.
The meaning of balance is a bit different in the context of a game. It's not synonymous with equality.

That's why MLG doesn't work, they've got their core skill ideals messed up in the first place. Don't get me wrong though, I don't hate it, it's good for working up Teamwork and BR Skills but as far as regular Halo goes it's worse than SSBB.
So going by your logic, why are people who play the MLG settings often also very good at default settings Halo? You don't think it has anything to do with MLG boiling the game down to its most important core elements?

  • 05.09.2009 3:46 PM PDT