Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Those who think the BR is fine are ignorant, plain and simple.

  • 05.18.2009 8:20 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Heroic Member

ps in it to win it

amen keep the br the way it is

  • 05.18.2009 9:15 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Legendary Member
  • gamertag: Gizola
  • user homepage:

BR = Great Anti Sniping Weapon
Low Ammo Consumption
Good VS Almost "every" weapon
Loses to AR if at close range
Destroys AR at medium to long range
Great Flame Tool
Easy kills for me when in the hands of a newbie lol

And Thats why its kool ^^

  • 05.19.2009 12:49 AM PDT

Posted by: Air Sparrow
Posted by: RhythmKiller
Oh god, you people are embarrassing.


Should I call the Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance for you?

If it takes you 2,000 words, a half-understood recycling of bungie's statements or a crappy meme, please - don't bother. :-P

  • 05.19.2009 3:52 AM PDT

Posted by: MadroKurgan
Those who think the BR is fine are ignorant, plain and simple.


QFT

  • 05.19.2009 7:19 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Rappeling through windows since 1/31/2011.
Link for original?
Here

People tend to hate on BRs and snipers becuase they can't use them, case in point: apparently I'm a noob for beating one particular opponent 25-3 with nothing but a BR and sniper...Really?

  • 05.19.2009 9:34 AM PDT

i dont have a problem with BRs either, even though they aren't the most powerful gun

  • 05.19.2009 12:35 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I believe that the BR should be left as is because it definently takes more skill to use it at long range than the BR from Halo 2. I believe that the current BR is a good asset to established players because it provides for more competitive play and there is more room to grow in your skills. If the BR from Halo 2 is brought back all of that work perfecting your Br will be for nothing and the BR will no longer be my and many other players' weapon of choice.

  • 05.19.2009 2:07 PM PDT

I live and die by my BR and I belive everone has that one gun

  • 05.19.2009 3:34 PM PDT

DMR/Pistol = >:D

BR is a skill that must be mastered, its a very good gun,for christ sake! you could master a magnum!

  • 05.19.2009 4:21 PM PDT

Posted by: MadroKurgan
Those who think the BR is fine are ignorant, plain and simple.


Yes, because obviously Bungie doesn't know a thing about balance in their own game. /sarcasm

Are you really claiming that all the people who are fine with the BR are ignorant? Because that in itself would be ignorant for assuming all those people are fine with the BR for the same reasons.
Assuming you know better then a team of trained game designers who spent months testing the game themselves, spending hours a day repeating the same task hundreds of times to see if it works, is even more ignorant.

  • 05.19.2009 6:03 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

i can sum this up in three words (in terms of the BR)
DEAL WITH IT


and scotty--you really should learn to self regulate--its a very valuable skill that will save you many flamings

  • 05.19.2009 7:28 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

The Spam is crazy on Bungie.NET not only on this forum but all the other one's

  • 05.19.2009 8:03 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: mooshmoossh
I like the BR just the way it is.

I really don't see what's wrong with it.

I feel the same way




how can u not see what is wrong? it does random amounts of damage.

  • 05.19.2009 9:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

so they decided to make it have random bullet damage. game companies make stupid decisions all the time.

  • 05.19.2009 9:05 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I sure do.
I love the BR, it's my favourite weapon. Sniper is second.

The BR is a practical weapon, and requires skill (i.e, 4 shot.) to use well.
Love it.
Edit: Yes, I do not see why people are complaining



becuase your stupid and are oblivious to the fact that it does random damage

  • 05.19.2009 9:08 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"luck is an element in skill too you know. "


and that's what makes games bad

  • 05.19.2009 9:10 PM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Posted by: Nokterne
Well, Quake 3 does it by giving the player a wide range of movement and evasion options. If you are caught off guard, it doesn't guarantee a death if you are skilled enough.


Then turn up the speed a little?

Please READ my posts. I said...

Posted by: Nokterne
If I were to re-make Halo 3's equipment with the purpose of reducing first shot advantage (because eliminating first-shot advantage would be retarded), I would make it more common but less powerful.

I was talking about changing the EQUIPMENT (making it more common but less powerful), and in no way suggested altering the power or frequency of first-shot advantage.


Fair enough. :)

When I said M6D, I was referring to the Halo CE pistol, not Halo 3's M6G.

And you and I both know that an AR/Beatdown is much faster then a Beatdown followed by a BR Headshot. They delay after hitting the beatdown button is the main cause of this (note, I'm not suggesting that this needs a change).


Then try one of my other suggestions; not getting that close to the enemy? Keep an eye on the Radar and you can stay out of Beatdown range fairly easily.

This section doesn't make much sense. You start by saying that skill is irrelevant (LOL), and then start talking about core skills.

I'll re-explain it a bit better.

Skill is a word human beings have made up, it's a tag, a label, a WORD.
You can say 'BRs are more skilled than Rockets' but that's just an opinionated answer. I could argue that due to the splash damage you actually have to watch how close you get to the enemy unlike the BR, you could then argue that the BR takes more aiming ability, but I could also argue that Rockets travel slower meaning they aren't as useful at a long range as a BR might be.

My point is that this word 'Skill' has no relevance to a weapon in any way. If you think that just because everyone thinks a weapon takes 'Skill' to use then it must take 'Skill' to use then you are simple minded and a drone in the MLG crowd. You can't insist a weapon takes skill to use, skill is not in the weapon but in the player. In this way 'Skill' can be divided up into the different sections, Ability, Mindset and Knowledge. Players can learn these but weapons can't, that's why Players can be 'Skilled' while weapons can't.

It is the swordsman, not the sword.

I believe I already have, but I will reiterate.

For me, skill in FPS's encompasses a wide variety of traits, which are unique to each individual game. To throw out some common examples though...

- Aim
- Reflexes
- Strategy/Tactics
- Map Knowledge
- Memory/Anticipation/Judgement
- Improvisation/Creativity
- The ability to process, gauge, and otherwise react to all of the above quickly (also known as quick thinking).


- Aim = Ability
- Reflexes = Ability
- Strategy/Tactics = Knowledge
- Map Knowledge = Knowledge
- Memory/Anticipation/Judgement = Mindset
- Improvisation/Creativity = Mindset
- The ability to process, gauge, and otherwise react to all of the above quickly (also known as quick thinking). = Mindset/Ability

By using this system of the three categories any player can pick out their weaknesses and effectively work on them. For instance I know that I'm generally a bad Sniper on Halo 3 so I can assume it's an Ability side of things, I drop my sensitivity, improve my precision with training and become a better Sniper. :)

Quake III? Sight-based. I believe the two above sections can be addressed by linking to a video.

http://www.quakeunity.com/file=2753

It's a 1v1 game of QuakeLive (browser version of Quake 3). Watch how important all the elements I listed above are, particularly in the second half of the video (the first half is just Zero4 getting dominated). Also notice how important controlling the power-ups is, and how each weapons has a specific purpose, but isn't the sole defining factor in who wins each encounter.

If you can't see how this isn't just a sight based game, then I can't help you.


I still think it's a sight based game but due to the increased speed it's quite different to most sight based games, quick strafing is far more important on this game than on others but the different weapons/powerups don't seem to make much of a different.

Mind you I've never actually played Quake III so that might just be a spectators opinion. I guess I have to play a game for a bit before I can categorize it correctly. To me it just seems like you don't like me simplifying 'Skill' or FPS Games down into different genres.

See the video above (both of those players are extremely close to the pinnacle of skill) and see my above list.

Close to the pinnacle of skill? Seriously? They aren't even close.

The Japanese AC4 players are much closer, if you ever see any videos of the tournaments you'll see how much faster the game is. Albeit a lot of the game comes down to how the Mech is built but AC4 is easily 2-3x faster than Quake III if this is what it has to offer. AC4 is up in speed to the point where after playing it for a week or two when I come back to Halo 3 I can see individual BR bullets moving through the air. It's just that much faster.

In my opinion, they make it much too easy for team with control to maintain control, especially if they also have control of the main anti-vehicle weapons.

I'm definitely not saying they should be removed from regular Halo 3, but I do think MLG was wise to remove them from their gametypes. They don't work well in 4v4 games, and they especially don't work on the smaller maps that MLG prefers to use.


Fair enough, I can see how one team can hold dominance over the whole map very easily with a single vehicle and it doesn't make very good gameplay if you're playing a sudden death match at the start of the game for control of the map.

You are confusing strategy and tactics with mindset. Charging over and over is a tactic, not a mindset.

I know people who play better when angry, and vice-versa. Mindset is simply something that affects your ability/skill, and again, not a skill in and of itself.


Well it's a Po-tay-to/Po-tar-to argument then isn't it? Now gather around children as I tell a little story...

Apon reaching level 40 in Lone Wolves after about half a year of play I decided to start going for a 40 in Team Slayer. Little did I know that I would be extremely bad at it, I would play the same as I always did but I would always come out Negative, even in the best games.

Then I met someone who was able to shed a little bit of light on my problem, he took me back through the games I had played and showed me that it was because I was rushing way too much, even then it was another two months before I could fully break this mindset of rushing head on into the enemy, now although I can easily hold my own in a Team Slayer game at level 45 I can't play Lone Wolves anymore. My Mindset changed that dramatically.

That is a Mindset. Unconcious behaviour or reflexitive reactions in particular situations. I was unconciously rushing the enemy and I had to break that Mindset and rebuild it to get the most out of my games. I've always thought of Tactics as small strategies, general strategy is a whole game plan whilst Tactics are quick options in situations. Like jumping backwards over someone who's going to assassinate you or strafing in a BR fight.

Of course at this point it's really all opinion on terms rather than actual fact. Unless you want to Wikipedia it.

No game is "meant" to played one particular way. There are variations for every type of game or sport. (ex. European Ice Hockey or NHL Hockey, Touch Football or Full Contact Football, etc)

All games are meant to be played in their individual particular ways. If you can find a new way to play it such as Goosing, Tactical Jumping, HLG, Long Distance Combat or Close Distance Combat then that's fine and that adds to the game experience. In the same way in sport whilst keeping within the rules in say Boxing, the Boxers develop their own movesets and Sunday Punches such as the Dempsey Roll, the Flicker Jab, the Liver Blow, the Gazelle Punch and the Smash. However the base strategies still apply, Halo 3's is to hold the advantage via weapons and in Boxing it's to hold the center of the ring. (Ironically MLG's base strategy is to hold the opponent into their own spawns and the other main strategy in Boxing is to hold the opponent in the corner).

My point is this, clear and simple.

There is a base strategy, if you find other ones that work then good use them, but don't forget about the base strategy.

Air Sparrow, I suggest we pick one thing to debate, because this multi-quote-giant-post thing is getting really annoying.

Well how about the Skill debate? It's probably the main centerpoint of our arguments anyways.

Posted by: toxin014
becuase your stupid and are oblivious to the fact that it does random damage


Actually the issue people are having is that the spread is apparently too much, meaning at a longer range the bullets will miss due to innaccuracy. The BR's individual bullet damage (on LAN) is consistant.

"luck is an element in skill too you know. "
and that's what makes games bad


Luck is also an element in life.

But it's not about the fact that sometimes life hands you lemons, it's about what you make out of those lemons that matters.

[Edited on 05.19.2009 11:14 PM PDT]

  • 05.19.2009 11:02 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: Quetzocoetl
Posted by: MadroKurgan
Those who think the BR is fine are ignorant, plain and simple.


Yes, because obviously Bungie doesn't know a thing about balance in their own game. /sarcasm

Are you really claiming that all the people who are fine with the BR are ignorant? Because that in itself would be ignorant for assuming all those people are fine with the BR for the same reasons.
Assuming you know better then a team of trained game designers who spent months testing the game themselves, spending hours a day repeating the same task hundreds of times to see if it works, is even more ignorant.


Yes, because Bungie are gods and do everything perfect. /sarcasm

All right... MOST people who think the BR is "fine", are ignorant. The few who are not, are just idiots. Is that better? ;) I don't care how many hrs Bungie put into polishing their precious turd. If they would have made the BR a single shot burst weapon (semi-automatic), with a rate of fire equivalent to that of the H1 pistol, and with a 4 to 5 shot kill, then not only would that make a better competitive weapon, but also it would perform much better for online play (having a 3 shot burst rifle is asinine for online - half the bullets don't even register).






[Edited on 05.19.2009 11:38 PM PDT]

  • 05.19.2009 11:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: MadroKurgan
Those who think the BR is fine are ignorant, plain and simple.


Yeah of course you know more about games and their balncing than professional game designers. And really, whats wrong with it? It has spread? So, whats wrong with that? It "does random damage"? Thats just bullets not registering beacause of lag or your poor aiming.

Its overpowered allready the way it is and if Bungie would "fix" it, it would become a power weapon and there would be really no reason to use any other weapons in the game. Just think about what you want.

Those who want to "fix" the BR are ignorant, plain and simple.

  • 05.20.2009 2:08 AM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: T3h Kaboose
It "does random damage"? Thats just bullets not registering beacause of lag or your poor aiming.

Your post is the perfect example of ignorance.

Bullets not registering has to do with the netcode of H3, not lag.

If a bullet were not to register, that would mean that it would first have to hit its mark. So implying poor aiming as a reason makes no logical sense. Poor aiming would result in a missed shot, not an unregistered one.

Ignorant, indeed.

  • 05.20.2009 6:16 AM PDT

Posted by: T3h Kaboose
Posted by: MadroKurgan
Those who think the BR is fine are ignorant, plain and simple.


Yeah of course you know more about games and their balncing than professional game designers. And really, whats wrong with it? It has spread? So, whats wrong with that? It "does random damage"? Thats just bullets not registering beacause of lag or your poor aiming.


It does not matter how well you aim if the bullets fire in random directions, and a three shot burst with random spread is an already flawed idea for online gaming.

Posted by: T3h Kaboose
Its overpowered allready the way it is and if Bungie would "fix" it, it would become a power weapon and there would be really no reason to use any other weapons in the game. Just think about what you want.


There already isn't a reason to use most of the weapons in the game.

Posted by: T3h Kaboose
Those who want to "fix" the BR are ignorant, plain and simple.


Yep, those who want to make the game better are ignorant.

  • 05.20.2009 6:35 AM PDT

Posted by: Nokterne
Well, Quake 3 does it by giving the player a wide range of movement and evasion options. If you are caught off guard, it doesn't guarantee a death if you are skilled enough.

I guess that's always been one of the few things that turned me off a bit about halo 3's gameplay, compared to other games (and it's predecessors). The slow speed makes the relative ease of killing vs evading more biased toward the attacking guy than in previous halo's.

  • 05.20.2009 6:37 AM PDT

Does anyone even read these?

Posted by: GreenDevilJF
Posted by: T3h Kaboose
Posted by: MadroKurgan
Those who think the BR is fine are ignorant, plain and simple.


Yeah of course you know more about games and their balncing than professional game designers. And really, whats wrong with it? It has spread? So, whats wrong with that? It "does random damage"? Thats just bullets not registering beacause of lag or your poor aiming.


It does not matter how well you aim if the bullets fire in random directions, and a three shot burst with random spread is an already flawed idea for online gaming.
Finally someone who understands it. T3h Kaboose, go into forge and spawn a spawn point on one side of Foundry and position yourself on the other side of Foundry. Sign in a guest and use a BR to kill the guest without moving where you are. Every time you shoot when you aim the gun in the same place it will take a different amount of shots to kill the guest.

It should take the same amount of shots in my eyes, but I guess Bungie don't think so. I have learned to accept that and think that arguing about the BR spread is pointless because no one else sees this and it will not definitely not be changed.

  • 05.20.2009 6:54 AM PDT