- Air Sparrow
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- Exalted Heroic Member
It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.
- Ghandi
IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU
Posted by: Nokterne
Well, Quake 3 does it by giving the player a wide range of movement and evasion options. If you are caught off guard, it doesn't guarantee a death if you are skilled enough.
Then turn up the speed a little?
Please READ my posts. I said...
Posted by: Nokterne
If I were to re-make Halo 3's equipment with the purpose of reducing first shot advantage (because eliminating first-shot advantage would be retarded), I would make it more common but less powerful.
I was talking about changing the EQUIPMENT (making it more common but less powerful), and in no way suggested altering the power or frequency of first-shot advantage.
Fair enough. :)
When I said M6D, I was referring to the Halo CE pistol, not Halo 3's M6G.
And you and I both know that an AR/Beatdown is much faster then a Beatdown followed by a BR Headshot. They delay after hitting the beatdown button is the main cause of this (note, I'm not suggesting that this needs a change).
Then try one of my other suggestions; not getting that close to the enemy? Keep an eye on the Radar and you can stay out of Beatdown range fairly easily.
This section doesn't make much sense. You start by saying that skill is irrelevant (LOL), and then start talking about core skills.
I'll re-explain it a bit better.
Skill is a word human beings have made up, it's a tag, a label, a WORD.
You can say 'BRs are more skilled than Rockets' but that's just an opinionated answer. I could argue that due to the splash damage you actually have to watch how close you get to the enemy unlike the BR, you could then argue that the BR takes more aiming ability, but I could also argue that Rockets travel slower meaning they aren't as useful at a long range as a BR might be.
My point is that this word 'Skill' has no relevance to a weapon in any way. If you think that just because everyone thinks a weapon takes 'Skill' to use then it must take 'Skill' to use then you are simple minded and a drone in the MLG crowd. You can't insist a weapon takes skill to use, skill is not in the weapon but in the player. In this way 'Skill' can be divided up into the different sections, Ability, Mindset and Knowledge. Players can learn these but weapons can't, that's why Players can be 'Skilled' while weapons can't.
It is the swordsman, not the sword.
I believe I already have, but I will reiterate.
For me, skill in FPS's encompasses a wide variety of traits, which are unique to each individual game. To throw out some common examples though...
- Aim
- Reflexes
- Strategy/Tactics
- Map Knowledge
- Memory/Anticipation/Judgement
- Improvisation/Creativity
- The ability to process, gauge, and otherwise react to all of the above quickly (also known as quick thinking).
- Aim = Ability
- Reflexes = Ability
- Strategy/Tactics = Knowledge
- Map Knowledge = Knowledge
- Memory/Anticipation/Judgement = Mindset
- Improvisation/Creativity = Mindset
- The ability to process, gauge, and otherwise react to all of the above quickly (also known as quick thinking). = Mindset/Ability
By using this system of the three categories any player can pick out their weaknesses and effectively work on them. For instance I know that I'm generally a bad Sniper on Halo 3 so I can assume it's an Ability side of things, I drop my sensitivity, improve my precision with training and become a better Sniper. :)
Quake III? Sight-based. I believe the two above sections can be addressed by linking to a video.
http://www.quakeunity.com/file=2753
It's a 1v1 game of QuakeLive (browser version of Quake 3). Watch how important all the elements I listed above are, particularly in the second half of the video (the first half is just Zero4 getting dominated). Also notice how important controlling the power-ups is, and how each weapons has a specific purpose, but isn't the sole defining factor in who wins each encounter.
If you can't see how this isn't just a sight based game, then I can't help you.
I still think it's a sight based game but due to the increased speed it's quite different to most sight based games, quick strafing is far more important on this game than on others but the different weapons/powerups don't seem to make much of a different.
Mind you I've never actually played Quake III so that might just be a spectators opinion. I guess I have to play a game for a bit before I can categorize it correctly. To me it just seems like you don't like me simplifying 'Skill' or FPS Games down into different genres.
See the video above (both of those players are extremely close to the pinnacle of skill) and see my above list.
Close to the pinnacle of skill? Seriously? They aren't even close.
The Japanese AC4 players are much closer, if you ever see any videos of the tournaments you'll see how much faster the game is. Albeit a lot of the game comes down to how the Mech is built but AC4 is easily 2-3x faster than Quake III if this is what it has to offer. AC4 is up in speed to the point where after playing it for a week or two when I come back to Halo 3 I can see individual BR bullets moving through the air. It's just that much faster.
In my opinion, they make it much too easy for team with control to maintain control, especially if they also have control of the main anti-vehicle weapons.
I'm definitely not saying they should be removed from regular Halo 3, but I do think MLG was wise to remove them from their gametypes. They don't work well in 4v4 games, and they especially don't work on the smaller maps that MLG prefers to use.
Fair enough, I can see how one team can hold dominance over the whole map very easily with a single vehicle and it doesn't make very good gameplay if you're playing a sudden death match at the start of the game for control of the map.
You are confusing strategy and tactics with mindset. Charging over and over is a tactic, not a mindset.
I know people who play better when angry, and vice-versa. Mindset is simply something that affects your ability/skill, and again, not a skill in and of itself.
Well it's a Po-tay-to/Po-tar-to argument then isn't it? Now gather around children as I tell a little story...
Apon reaching level 40 in Lone Wolves after about half a year of play I decided to start going for a 40 in Team Slayer. Little did I know that I would be extremely bad at it, I would play the same as I always did but I would always come out Negative, even in the best games.
Then I met someone who was able to shed a little bit of light on my problem, he took me back through the games I had played and showed me that it was because I was rushing way too much, even then it was another two months before I could fully break this mindset of rushing head on into the enemy, now although I can easily hold my own in a Team Slayer game at level 45 I can't play Lone Wolves anymore. My Mindset changed that dramatically.
That is a Mindset. Unconcious behaviour or reflexitive reactions in particular situations. I was unconciously rushing the enemy and I had to break that Mindset and rebuild it to get the most out of my games. I've always thought of Tactics as small strategies, general strategy is a whole game plan whilst Tactics are quick options in situations. Like jumping backwards over someone who's going to assassinate you or strafing in a BR fight.
Of course at this point it's really all opinion on terms rather than actual fact. Unless you want to Wikipedia it.
No game is "meant" to played one particular way. There are variations for every type of game or sport. (ex. European Ice Hockey or NHL Hockey, Touch Football or Full Contact Football, etc)
All games are meant to be played in their individual particular ways. If you can find a new way to play it such as Goosing, Tactical Jumping, HLG, Long Distance Combat or Close Distance Combat then that's fine and that adds to the game experience. In the same way in sport whilst keeping within the rules in say Boxing, the Boxers develop their own movesets and Sunday Punches such as the Dempsey Roll, the Flicker Jab, the Liver Blow, the Gazelle Punch and the Smash. However the base strategies still apply, Halo 3's is to hold the advantage via weapons and in Boxing it's to hold the center of the ring. (Ironically MLG's base strategy is to hold the opponent into their own spawns and the other main strategy in Boxing is to hold the opponent in the corner).
My point is this, clear and simple.
There is a base strategy, if you find other ones that work then good use them, but don't forget about the base strategy.
Air Sparrow, I suggest we pick one thing to debate, because this multi-quote-giant-post thing is getting really annoying.
Well how about the Skill debate? It's probably the main centerpoint of our arguments anyways.
Posted by: toxin014
becuase your stupid and are oblivious to the fact that it does random damage
Actually the issue people are having is that the spread is apparently too much, meaning at a longer range the bullets will miss due to innaccuracy. The BR's individual bullet damage (on LAN) is consistant.
"luck is an element in skill too you know. "
and that's what makes games bad
Luck is also an element in life.
But it's not about the fact that sometimes life hands you lemons, it's about what you make out of those lemons that matters.
[Edited on 05.19.2009 11:14 PM PDT]