Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

RNG/"bullet spread" have been assigned to Halo weapons from the M6D to the H3 BR. Why are we still complaining about this?

You could never fully control the "bullet spread" on the M6D. You can't fully control the "bullet spread" on the H3 BR. Medium range weapons have had it in Halo from the very beginning. So why are we even still complaining about it? It hasn't change since the very beginning and I seriously doubt they are going to change it later.

Talk to Gearbox if you have further concerns. Default Halo has NEVER been about "high skill"; it's been about making it so that newer/less skilled players still have a place against higher skilled/more experienced players. It has ALWAYS been this way.

~B.B.

  • 05.20.2009 7:51 AM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

But the M6D pistol was only single shot semi auto. And the bullets were not nearly as random as the H3 BR. I could shoot someone standing still at medium/long range and always get a 3 shot kill. It varies with the BR.

  • 05.20.2009 8:22 AM PDT

The M6D could consistantly 3shot at a decent range, the H3 BR can't manage consistant 4shot kills at a decent range.

  • 05.20.2009 8:42 AM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: GreenDevilJF
The M6D could consistantly 3shot at a decent range, the H3 BR can't manage consistant 4shot kills at a decent range.
And that is when aim is dead on in both circumstances.

  • 05.20.2009 9:10 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: GreenDevilJF
The M6D could consistantly 3shot at a decent range, the H3 BR can't manage consistant 4shot kills at a decent range.


See, that really depends on what range you find to be "decent". Which is subjective, and opinionated, and it's the only reason why you are still arguing this point. Because that's all you have.

I find the range in which you can 4sk consistently with the H3 BR to be fine. You don't. We don't need 118 pages of discussing this fact. And yet here we are.

~B.B.

  • 05.20.2009 9:27 AM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

No offense, but at any range in where i can hit someone with the H1 pistol it can 3 shot kill every time if aim is perfect. The BR varies, even when the reticule is red and aim is perfect.

But that is not my main problem with the BR. My main problem is H3's netcode. So many of my bullets hit and do no damage. Plus i just like the dynamics of the H1 pistol better (single shot burst, rate of fire, and more consistent).




[Edited on 05.20.2009 9:40 AM PDT]

  • 05.20.2009 9:34 AM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: GreenDevilJF
The M6D could consistantly 3shot at a decent range, the H3 BR can't manage consistant 4shot kills at a decent range.


See, that really depends on what range you find to be "decent". Which is subjective, and opinionated, and it's the only reason why you are still arguing this point. Because that's all you have.


Sure, why not.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
I find the range in which you can 4sk consistently with the H3 BR to be fine. You don't. We don't need 118 pages of discussing this fact. And yet here we are.

~B.B.


A mid range weapon that only works consistantly within close range is not fine, its just sad.

  • 05.20.2009 9:48 AM PDT

If you don't mind, I'm going to move away from the format we have been using and instead reply to only the sections which I feel are most relevant/important.

Posted by: Air Sparrow
Then turn up the speed a little?

That is one possible solution, and MLG has done this, however the hardcoded mechanics of the game (jump hangtime, running stop-start time, etc) as well as the relation between the physics and the maps in the game (changing the gravity ruins all the jumps) make completely solving the issue through custom options impossible.

Skill is a word human beings have made up, it's a tag, a label, a WORD.
Like all other words, "skill" is used to describe a concept. In this case, it describes either an individuals ability to do something, or the amount of ability required to use or do something effectively (ex. It takes skill to get a headshot with the Sniper).

- Aim = Ability
- Reflexes = Ability
- Strategy/Tactics = Knowledge
- Map Knowledge = Knowledge
- Memory/Anticipation/Judgement = Mindset
- Improvisation/Creativity = Mindset
- The ability to process, gauge, and otherwise react to all of the above quickly (also known as quick thinking). = Mindset/Ability

I think you are using the term "mindset" improperly, as well as over simplifying what defines skill in video games. Summarizing the elements I posted into three categories doesn't really get us anywhere.

I still think it's a sight based game but due to the increased speed it's quite different to most sight based games, quick strafing is far more important on this game than on others but the different weapons/powerups don't seem to make much of a different.
Really? Did you notice the importance of the armour power-ups? Notice how in the second match, the location of the encounters in that game rotated around the spawning of the armour?

To me it just seems like you don't like me simplifying 'Skill' or FPS Games down into different genres.
That is correct.

Close to the pinnacle of skill? Seriously? They aren't even close.
In the context of Quake III, these are two of the best players in the game. Quake III is vastly different from AC4, so you can't really compare skill between the two.

That is a Mindset. Unconcious behaviour or reflexitive reactions in particular situations. I was unconciously rushing the enemy and I had to break that Mindset and rebuild it to get the most out of my games. I've always thought of Tactics as small strategies, general strategy is a whole game plan whilst Tactics are quick options in situations. Like jumping backwards over someone who's going to assassinate you or strafing in a BR fight.
In your case, your mindset was affecting your tactics. You were impulsive, you weren't thinking, and this was affecting how you were playing.

Your actions within the game and your mindset are separate entities, with no clear correlation. Some people play extremely well when angry or frustrated, and others let it affect their game too much and begin to play recklessly.

Now, if you are talking about an aggressive vs. defensives mindset, I would say that you are confusing the term "mindset" with "strategy."

There is a base strategy, if you find other ones that work then good use them, but don't forget about the base strategy.
I don't think MLG has forgotten at all. It actually seems to me like they have compromised in many areas to make their gametypes more familiar and true to Halo 3's core elements and strategy.

  • 05.20.2009 9:50 AM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Talk to Gearbox if you have further concerns. Default Halo has NEVER been about "high skill"; it's been about making it so that newer/less skilled players still have a place against higher skilled/more experienced players. It has ALWAYS been this way.
I have no problem with default Halo catering to casual players, but what does a casual default setting have to do with the overall depth and skill gap of the game?

I first played Halo CE when I was both very young and a very casual gamer, and I loved it. Competitive gamers loved it as well. Why shouldn't Halo 3 strive to achieve the same?

  • 05.20.2009 9:58 AM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Posted by: Nokterne
That is one possible solution, and MLG has done this, however the hardcoded mechanics of the game (jump hangtime, running stop-start time, etc) as well as the relation between the physics and the maps in the game (changing the gravity ruins all the jumps) make completely solving the issue through custom options impossible.


Fair enough.

Like all other words, "skill" is used to describe a concept. In this case, it describes either an individuals ability to do something, or the amount of ability required to use or do something effectively (ex. It takes skill to get a headshot with the Sniper).

Yes but ultimately what matters is results. Provided you keep within the rules of the game it really doesn't matter what weapon is more 'skilled' or not. What matters is the player(s) that won.

I think you are using the term "mindset" improperly, as well as over simplifying what defines skill in video games. Summarizing the elements I posted into three categories doesn't really get us anywhere.

I'm just trying to justify my theory of 'Skill'. Everyone keeps saying 'Don't use rockets it's unskilled' or 'MLG Customs only! There's no skill otherwise!' but no one actually takes the time to think about it and ask 'Is it more skilled? Why is it more skilled? What is skill?'

IReally? Did you notice the importance of the armour power-ups? Notice how in the second match, the location of the encounters in that game rotated around the spawning of the armour?

Again I'm just a non-Quake-playing spectator but to me it really didn't seem to change much.

You have to ask yourself, is the game controlled by who sees whom first and gets the initial shot or is it controlled by the weapons and powerups or is it a combination of both?

Personally I think it's the first one, Sight Based.

In the context of Quake III, these are two of the best players in the game. Quake III is vastly different from AC4, so you can't really compare skill between the two.

My point is that it's the player, not the game that has the 'Skill'. If one of these top AC4 players was to begin playing Quake III, they'd rock the Quake world since they're used to a much faster, mentally-draining game.

In your case, your mindset was affecting your tactics. You were impulsive, you weren't thinking, and this was affecting how you were playing.

Your actions within the game and your mindset are separate entities, with no clear correlation. Some people play extremely well when angry or frustrated, and others let it affect their game too much and begin to play recklessly.

Now, if you are talking about an aggressive vs. defensives mindset, I would say that you are confusing the term "mindset" with "strategy."


Again it's just a Po-tay-to/Po-tar-to argument.

I guess I'll bring wikipedia into this then...

"A mindset, in decision theory and general systems theory, refers to a set of assumptions, methods or notations held by one or more people or groups of people which is so established that it creates a powerful incentive within these people or groups to continue to adopt or accept prior behaviours, choices, or tools."

So a Mindset is how you address a situation and how you use particular methods to deal with it, in addition it's your assumptions in-game which allows you to adopt particular ideals and tactics.

"A strategy is a plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal."

Whilst a Strategy is a plan designed to achieve a particular goal, in other words a way to win the match. This would equate to a game plan.

I don't think MLG has forgotten at all. It actually seems to me like they have compromised in many areas to make their gametypes more familiar and true to Halo 3's core elements and strategy.

The base strategy has been weapon control. MLG has changed it to spawn control.

They've completely forgotten the base strategy.

[Edited on 05.20.2009 10:23 AM PDT]

  • 05.20.2009 10:21 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Nokterne
I have no problem with default Halo catering to casual players, but what does a casual default setting have to do with the overall depth and skill gap of the game?


And you can increase the skill-gap required in Halo 3 as compared to the default variant. I believe it's called MLG or even 2008's WCG. They remove things that in their opinion negatively affect "skill" making the game more "skill-required" (in their opinions). So how does Halo 3 not offer the same (if not more) overall depth and skill-gap as HCE? In HCE you didn't even have Forge, so you could create maps that you find more conducive to that "competitive" edge? The skills required in Halo have slightly changed from individual to more team based. I don't see this as an issue.

I first played Halo CE when I was both very young and a very casual gamer, and I loved it. Competitive gamers loved it as well. Why shouldn't Halo 3 strive to achieve the same?

Because Halo 3 does. Competitive gamers apparently like it enough to make it the largest bracket/following at MLG and in 2008 at WCG. Halo 3 is loved by casual gamers and competitive gamers alike. So I'm still failing to see how it is any different than HCE. When I played HCE, I was 19 and was just getting out of my competitive PC gaming with Quake 3 and UT99. I liked the game then and I like Halo 3 now. Nothing has changed except people have skewed perceptions of how things were back in those days.

~B.B.

  • 05.20.2009 10:57 AM PDT

Posted by: Air Sparrow
Yes but ultimately what matters is results. Provided you keep within the rules of the game it really doesn't matter what weapon is more 'skilled' or not. What matters is the player(s) that won.

I guess you could say that it doesn't "inherently" matter, but what does matter is how each weapon, and the skill required to use it, affects the games ability to give the more overall skilled player the victory. Randomness in the BR negatively affects the games ability to accurately reflect who has better aim, for example.

Again I'm just a non-Quake-playing spectator but to me it really didn't seem to change much.

You have to ask yourself, is the game controlled by who sees whom first and gets the initial shot or is it controlled by the weapons and powerups or is it a combination of both?

Personally I think it's the first one, Sight Based.

As someone who has played it, I would say its a combination.

My point is that it's the player, not the game that has the 'Skill'. If one of these top AC4 players was to begin playing Quake III, they'd rock the Quake world since they're used to a much faster, mentally-draining game.
Again, they are very different games. Strafe jumping alone would take an AC4 player (or any kind of player) a considerable amount of time to master. They would be familiar with the speed, but with the precision required for movement and aim.

The base strategy has been weapon control. MLG has changed it to spawn control.
This couldn't be further from the truth. Weapon and power-up control is central to the MLG gametypes. MLG has actually released videos showing the strategies of various teams concerning how they get such good control of a maps power weapons (though these videos are targeted at inexperienced players).

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lreIgGu6kJ4

  • 05.20.2009 11:11 AM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

I don't think you can simply dismiss the adherent qualities of Halo 1 as nostalgia. Even when i play it to this day competitively, i feel that i have more control, better aiming and gun properties, and it is all around more enjoyable then Halo 3 in MLG or normal settings. But that's just my opinion.



[Edited on 05.20.2009 11:14 AM PDT]

  • 05.20.2009 11:13 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: MadroKurgan
I don't think you can simply dismiss the adherent qualities of Halo 1 as nostalgia. Even when i play it to this day competitively, i feel that i have more control, better aiming and gun properties, and it is all around more enjoyable then Halo 3 in MLG or normal settings. But that's just my opinion.



That's fine and I personally know quite a few people that agree with you. Because HCE had health packs, fall damage, and the M6D. However, I know others who look at the ability to craft your own map, change weapon spawns, set powerups, and everything else in Forge as a good trade-off.

To be quite honest, I've always felt that if you could spawn with the H3 Carbine on any map, the differences between HCE and H3 "competitively" would be greatly reduced even without considering Forge. But again, I don't make the rules.

~B.B.

  • 05.20.2009 11:22 AM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Posted by: Nokterne
I guess you could say that it doesn't "inherently" matter, but what does matter is how each weapon, and the skill required to use it, affects the games ability to give the more overall skilled player the victory. Randomness in the BR negatively affects the games ability to accurately reflect who has better aim, for example.


Or it could be that if I'm using a Sniper rifle and you are using a BR and I Snipe you, then you were just not smart enough to retreat. Therefore I am the more skilled player.

Seriously, the BR has a long enough range as it is, if anything I think it should be cut down rather than extended.

As someone who has played it, I would say its a combination.

Then it's a Hybrid FPS.

Again, they are very different games. Strafe jumping alone would take an AC4 player (or any kind of player) a considerable amount of time to master. They would be familiar with the speed, but with the precision required for movement and aim.

But upon learning and mastering that skill there would be few players that would be able to beat them. My point remains valid.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Weapon and power-up control is central to the MLG gametypes. MLG has actually released videos showing the strategies of various teams concerning how they get such good control of a maps power weapons (though these videos are targeted at inexperienced players).

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lreIgGu6kJ4


However the overall idea is still to hold the enemy in their spawns.

  • 05.20.2009 11:44 AM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
And you can increase the skill-gap required in Halo 3 as compared to the default variant. I believe it's called MLG or even 2008's WCG. They remove things that in their opinion negatively affect "skill" making the game more "skill-required" (in their opinions). So how does Halo 3 not offer the same (if not more) overall depth and skill-gap as HCE? In HCE you didn't even have Forge, so you could create maps that you find more conducive to that "competitive" edge? The skills required in Halo have slightly changed from individual to more team based. I don't see this as an issue.

I see Halo CE as requiring far less customization to achieve a more skillful game then Halo 3, due to its overall mechanics (weapons, spawing, etc) being better suited to competitive play. I feel that MLG has simply applied band-aid solutions to a game that really isn't that great competitively.

And even disregarding competitive play, I had much more fun playing Halo CE and Halo 2 causally then Halo 3. I've played more splitscreen in all three games then I would care to admit, and Halo 2 destroys the others in terms of causal fun.

I feel that the core competitive nature of the game was lost going from Halo CE to Halo 2, and that the pure fun of Halo 2 was lost moving to Halo 3. I feel Halo 3 has gotten the worst of the past two games, and has tried to make up for it with gimmicky features. By that's just my opinion, and I have enjoyed Halo 3 more or less. Just not as much as I had hoped.

  • 05.20.2009 11:47 AM PDT

Posted by: Air Sparrow
Or it could be that if I'm using a Sniper rifle and you are using a BR and I Snipe you, then you were just not smart enough to retreat. Therefore I am the more skilled player.

OR my weapon didn't enable me to fight back while I retreated due to it's stunted range. The BR is currently a horrible anti-sniping weapon.

Seriously, the BR has a long enough range as it is, if anything I think it should be cut down rather than extended.
You're starting to scare me.

But upon learning and mastering that skill there would be few players that would be able to beat them. My point remains valid.
I don't know enough about AC4 to comment on it's ability to make you a better Quake player, but I doubt that a game that handles precision aiming for you (correct me if I'm wrong) and has no power weapons is going to have much transferable skill to a game like Quake III. Not to mention that it also doesn't use a mouse and keyboard.

However the overall idea is still to hold the enemy in their spawns.
No. It seems you don't have an argument and are just repeating yourself.

  • 05.20.2009 11:58 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

the br is great but the ar needs head shots(1 shot kills in the head when shield is down)the br otherwise will always -blam!- the ar.


the br rocks imo its almost to good(if used correctly)

[Edited on 05.20.2009 12:16 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2009 12:12 PM PDT

Posted by: MadroKurgan
Posted by: Quetzocoetl
Posted by: MadroKurgan
Those who think the BR is fine are ignorant, plain and simple.


Yes, because obviously Bungie doesn't know a thing about balance in their own game. /sarcasm

Are you really claiming that all the people who are fine with the BR are ignorant? Because that in itself would be ignorant for assuming all those people are fine with the BR for the same reasons.
Assuming you know better then a team of trained game designers who spent months testing the game themselves, spending hours a day repeating the same task hundreds of times to see if it works, is even more ignorant.


Yes, because Bungie are gods and do everything perfect. /sarcasm

All right... MOST people who think the BR is "fine", are ignorant. The few who are not, are just idiots. Is that better? ;) I don't care how many hrs Bungie put into polishing their precious turd. If they would have made the BR a single shot burst weapon (semi-automatic), with a rate of fire equivalent to that of the H1 pistol, and with a 4 to 5 shot kill, then not only would that make a better competitive weapon, but also it would perform much better for online play (having a 3 shot burst rifle is asinine for online - half the bullets don't even register).






Yet another, ironically ignorant post from you.
1. I did not say Bungie is infallible, they make mistakes (glitches, bugs, etc.). I simply said they know more about their own game then you do.
2. People who are fine with the BR have posted well thought out threads before, so not all of them are idiots.

I can't believe you have the arrogance to believe that you know more about game balance then a game developer. How many multi-million dollar games have you created?
Bungie is not perfect, but they do know more about how their game is balanced then any average player.

  • 05.20.2009 1:57 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: MadroKurgan
Posted by: T3h Kaboose
It "does random damage"? Thats just bullets not registering beacause of lag or your poor aiming.

Your post is the perfect example of ignorance.

Bullets not registering has to do with the netcode of H3, not lag.

If a bullet were not to register, that would mean that it would first have to hit its mark. So implying poor aiming as a reason makes no logical sense. Poor aiming would result in a missed shot, not an unregistered one.

Ignorant, indeed.

Well i haven´t really gotten in to how live wroks and to me netcode and lag are the same. Does it really make a difference? And i wasn´t implying poor aiming as a reason for bullets not registering, i was implying that maybe you just think youre super awesome and you just think the shots hit, even when they don´t.

And i just don´t see whats wrong with a weapon having spread. It just balances the game so that BR is a mid-range weapon, not a all-range weapon. We have snipers for that. Should we take the spread out of SMGs and ARs too? Theres a reason weapons have spread in Halo 3.

You are being ignorant here. If you would actually stop for a minute and think about stuff or stop playing just for gaining skill and focus on the fun, you would find the BR just fine the way it is.

  • 05.20.2009 2:20 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: T3h Kaboose
Well i haven´t really gotten in to how live wroks and to me netcode and lag are the same. Does it really make a difference? And i wasn´t implying poor aiming as a reason for bullets not registering, i was implying that maybe you just think youre super awesome and you just think the shots hit, even when they don´t.

And i just don´t see whats wrong with a weapon having spread. It just balances the game so that BR is a mid-range weapon, not a all-range weapon. We have snipers for that. Should we take the spread out of SMGs and ARs too? Theres a reason weapons have spread in Halo 3.

You are being ignorant here. If you would actually stop for a minute and think about stuff or stop playing just for gaining skill and focus on the fun, you would find the BR just fine the way it is.

Netcode and lag are not the same thing. It is how the netcode reacts to lag that creates the online gaming environment. The way Bungie chose to do their netcode, results in a lot of bullets that hit their target to not count/do damage. It is a lot more complicated then that, but i don't want to get into the nuts and bolts of it. And i'm not implying nothing about how good i am. I watch my bullets hit in theater, but no damage is done. Plain and simple.

Having a spread is not a big deal. But the spread really needs to keep with the reticule, instead of straying way outside of it. This happens even when the reticule is red. But again, my main beef with the BR is not the spread. It is the way it handles, and the netcode. I much rather would have the BR a single bullet burst weapon, with the rate of fire of the H1 pistol, with a 4-6 shot kill. Not only do i feel it would be a better competitive weapon, but i believe it would handle better for online play. The carbine would be the perfect weapon, if it were not for the damn green tracers that obstruct your view - i cannot tell if i'm hitting an opponent because of it.

I only play for fun, and not for rank. But for it to be fun, it has to be competitive for me. The BR is the funnest gun to use in H3 (along with the sniper), BUT i'd enjoy it more if it was how i explained, and it would be a lot less frustrating. And for those reason, i do not think it is fine the way it is. But i realize i'm beating the hell out of a dead horse. I just hope who ever does H4 will listen to those who share my view.

  • 05.20.2009 10:05 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: MadroKurgan
I don't think you can simply dismiss the adherent qualities of Halo 1 as nostalgia. Even when i play it to this day competitively, i feel that i have more control, better aiming and gun properties, and it is all around more enjoyable then Halo 3 in MLG or normal settings. But that's just my opinion.



That's fine and I personally know quite a few people that agree with you. Because HCE had health packs, fall damage, and the M6D. However, I know others who look at the ability to craft your own map, change weapon spawns, set powerups, and everything else in Forge as a good trade-off.

To be quite honest, I've always felt that if you could spawn with the H3 Carbine on any map, the differences between HCE and H3 "competitively" would be greatly reduced even without considering Forge. But again, I don't make the rules.

~B.B.

Agreed on both points. Forge is very nice, but i do wish that more was allowed. Such as changing the properties of weapons individually (i.e., changing the rate of fire, number of bullets in burst, and damage).

I've never understood why carbine starts are not allowed. The carbine would be almost the perfect weapon if it were not for those damn annoying green tracers. I cannot tell if i'm hitting someone or not because of it. That is why i would love to have a BR Carbine. :)




[Edited on 05.20.2009 10:14 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2009 10:12 PM PDT

It is not never falling that makes us strong,
It is rising every time we fall.

- Ghandi

IF YOU SEND ME A GROUP INVITE I WILL BLOCK YOU

Posted by: Nokterne
OR my weapon didn't enable me to fight back while I retreated due to it's stunted range. The BR is currently a horrible anti-sniping weapon.


Then don't go out into the open when there's a sniper in the first place? It's pretty obvious knowledge but generally if you're going out into the open and there's been a callout that a Sniper's on the loose then it's a pretty bad move to try to engage the Sniper at long range.

I don't know enough about AC4 to comment on it's ability to make you a better Quake player, but I doubt that a game that handles precision aiming for you (correct me if I'm wrong) and has no power weapons is going to have much transferable skill to a game like Quake III. Not to mention that it also doesn't use a mouse and keyboard.

AC4 is basically a very fast Mech game.

Here's a good example, not quite pro level but meh:

ACFA: Mech Display - Flash

It shoots up your reflexes to the point where individual bullets are avoidable. A lot of it tends to be instinctive though. It can be played up to 4 vs 4 and I really don't know why there's no MLG for this, seems good enough plus there's next to no lag online.

My point is that it's how you as a person improve, if I can become a world-class player at this then any other reflexes or hybrid based game becomes easy, Quake III is one of them.

No. It seems you don't have an argument and are just repeating yourself.

I guess you didn't notice that you were just repeating yourself too?

You really haven't noticed about the MLG Spawns? I thought it was common knowledge too. I saw this typed up on MLGPro.com's Get Better Fast section but now the whole section appears to have dissapeared.

The standard strategy for MLG is to play a tug-of-war style game against the enemy team and gradually force the opponent back into their spawns, at which point you hold them there and repeatedly spawncamp them. It's also the strategy I've always used when playing MLG custom and matchmaking games with my friends and it works every time. If it fails it's because the opposing team used the same strategy on us.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all there is to MLG is spawncamping, all I'm saying is reguardless of tactics or ability the end result in MLG is to force the opponent back into their spawns. Why do you think the proffessionals always space themselves out on a map? It's so that the enemy can't force them all into one area for the spawncamp, in addition it's so that they've got a shot at doing the same thing to the other team, in addition to being able to assist team mates from various points on the map.

[Edited on 05.21.2009 3:33 AM PDT]

  • 05.21.2009 3:32 AM PDT

FOREVER LIVE HALO

The BR is on of the best guns in the game, depending how you use it.

  • 05.21.2009 5:15 AM PDT

Posted by: Air Sparrow
Then don't go out into the open when there's a sniper in the first place? It's pretty obvious knowledge but generally if you're going out into the open and there's been a callout that a Sniper's on the loose then it's a pretty bad move to try to engage the Sniper at long range.

If everyone took your advice, moving across the map and attacking would never happen when a sniper is in play (and actually this problem does occur, especially on Guardian). The pace of the game would dramatically slow down. If I'm carrying a BR, it should have the ability to suppress a Sniper while I move from cover to cover toward my opponents side of the map. Right now, it can only do this effectively on smaller maps.

It shoots up your reflexes to the point where individual bullets are avoidable. A lot of it tends to be instinctive though. It can be played up to 4 vs 4 and I really don't know why there's no MLG for this, seems good enough plus there's next to no lag online.

My point is that it's how you as a person improve, if I can become a world-class player at this then any other reflexes or hybrid based game becomes easy, Quake III is one of them.

While you may think your reflexes are increasing, in reality you are probably just becoming more accustomed to identifying the games various cues. It is more likely that you have gradually learnt the game and can now react to specific situations instinctively.

At any rate, I don't think you appreciate just how different Quake III is from an AC game. The lack of jumping, power-ups, or significant map specific strategy make the idea of transferable skill between the two seem far fetched at best.

I guess you didn't notice that you were just repeating yourself too?
When my previous post applies to what I am replying to, I'm not going to bother re-posting it.

The standard strategy for MLG is to play a tug-of-war style game against the enemy team and gradually force the opponent back into their spawns, at which point you hold them there and repeatedly spawncamp them. It's also the strategy I've always used when playing MLG custom and matchmaking games with my friends and it works every time. If it fails it's because the opposing team used the same strategy on us.
Isn't that what ALL Team Slayer games are about though? Pushing toward where your opponent is (which is usually where they are spawing) and killing them?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all there is to MLG is spawncamping, all I'm saying is reguardless of tactics or ability the end result in MLG is to force the opponent back into their spawns. Why do you think the proffessionals always space themselves out on a map?
I think it's because they want to be able to teamshoot more effectively, as well as obtain all the power weapons and power-ups, and also be able to see the whole map and callout anything the other team might be doing.

  • 05.21.2009 8:34 AM PDT