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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Bourbon OWNS
...at a range of 25 meters (75 feet).
Actually, 25 meters = 82 feet or 27 yards...a meter does not equal a yard.

And, I shoot a water gun more accurately at 25 meters.

You'd likely end up losing to an opponent you didn't deserve to.To Bungie, that would be considered good gameplay design. But, it isn't all their fault; connectivity issues play a huge part in the randomness as well.

This is a competitive first person shooter not fricking yahtzee or somethingYou were setting your expectations too high. Halo has never been a competitive shooter in the eyes of Bungie and their kiss-asses. Many of us made it out to be with superior settings in LANs during Halo:CE times, which is also why this game got so popular. The only part Bungie played in getting Halo so popular is "accidentally" putting the M6D Pistol in as a 3-shot.

If Bungie understood what it means to be competitive, then they would know that randomness is not a good thing. I believe Bungie and their kiss-asses call randomness "balance". With a decrease in randomness, apparently to them, that would unbalance the game, lol. At least Bungie has an idea, since they "fixed" the Melee system for this reason.

Anyway, if Bungie really understood what some of us strive for in a shooter, or a team-based game that involves competition, then they would've included more customization for changing the fire functionality of certain weapons or changing the range of weapons. It really is only a slight change to the programming: another days worth of work at most. They could've for the least designed their game around mid to long range combat instead of this close-range BS.

It doesn't have anything to do with realism. Bungie just chose to work their balance toward the Shotgun, instead of toward the M6D Pistol like they should've, which sucks for most of us and only has added to the criticism Bungie has had to take.

BTW, if the new Magnum 6C Pistol in Halo:ODST has any random characteristics (especiallly when zoomed), then there is no way I will be even considering to buy the overlypriced expansion. Why would Bungie even design a single-shot weapon for Campaign to be random? For balance? Really? Since when is limiting the range the same as balance and more important than enjoyment? I guess I'll have to see more vids of this Magnum when the expansion hits shelves. If I notice more of what I saw from E3 where the user got the headshot without aiming on the head (though that could've been massive bullet assist), then Bungie and MS will be getting my $30 when the expansion drops to what it should be priced at. And, I am being generous; I wasn't even going to think about buying this garbage since Bungie doesn't want my support any more. But, the Firefight and a scoped Magnum has brought a slight interest to me. Too bad, the $60 price tag made me automatically decide to wait until the price drops.

[Edited on 06.02.2009 2:19 PM PDT]

  • 06.02.2009 2:15 PM PDT

Yeah I was second in line to get Halo 3, only had to wait 7 hours lol

ah men

  • 06.03.2009 12:04 AM PDT
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http://www.bungie.net/stats/halo3/default.aspx?player=Wtf%20i br%20legit

  • 06.03.2009 1:27 AM PDT
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sounds like someone who is bitter because they can't compensate for effective close range weapons.

are you afraid of the button that allows you to pick up a new gun? angry because your br/snipe combo gets owned by the noob with the camo and shotty?

sorry but most of us don't like mlg-style gameplay. i can say that with confidence.

saying that most people prefer mid to long range combat, however... i have a hard time believing that

  • 06.03.2009 10:59 AM PDT
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the BR is a good weapon, i like it just the way it is

  • 06.03.2009 12:51 PM PDT

(\__/)
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(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination

WOOT BR ROCKS!!!

  • 06.03.2009 12:57 PM PDT
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-j3di mlnd

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l | --------____.`=====.-.~:________\___|================[oo]
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Posted by: Pk 4 Skillz1
My thoughts:

*The BR was designed with strengths and weaknesses.
*The weaknesses were added in to offset the strengths.
*It takes skill to use the BR like JonnyOThan said.
*The BR is as effective as it was designed to be.
*Bungie DOESNT have to fix the BR because it is the way they want it to be.

So, if you don't like the BR there is one real simple solution.......................Don't Use It

Well said compodre.


  • 06.03.2009 1:00 PM PDT
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People who complain about it , means that they dont know how the hell to use it. You people just need a little or a lot of practice to know how to use it, because one of the things I like about a BR'S is that they have great accuracy and potent power shots, and also is more likeable because of the straight shots(more likely as a sniper for grunt work) of tree.

There is no real problem with it , its just that some people do not know how to use it\


Its also one of my favorite weapons to kill an oponent...lolololol..

  • 06.03.2009 1:02 PM PDT
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I totally agree. the battle rifle is for close and short range weapon. you just need how to use it.

Like hit an opponent and shoot in the head.

  • 06.03.2009 1:04 PM PDT

The whole Actionsack argument threads have given me new insight to this.

The lack of complaints about the spread of other weapons leads me to believe that this is not about "balance", but about having a group's favorite weapon perform better.

Think about it, if I manage to get the center of my crosshair directly over my opponents head with an SMG, don't I deserve to have all the shots hit?
What about the Carbine? That has a noticeable spread, yet very few people complain.

As of now, the BR functions incredibly well as a mid-range weapon, as it should. All 3 bullets make contact with your opponent, so long as the reticule is red and you lead your shots. I have yet to see any counter evidence to that.

So what is it that is desired here? A perfect all-around weapon. Why? So match ups in Halo 3 turn into "Who has the better BR skills" rather then "Who has the right weapon for this encounter". This is to speed up gameplay, by getting rid of the time it takes to pick and choose your weapons to prepare for a particular situation.

Who does this benefit? MLG, and I say MLG because "Competitive Players" don't always win with the BR as their ToD. MLG has been trying to get Bungie to incorporate aspects of their playstyle into default Halo 3, falsly believing that theirs is superior.
To me, that is incredibly greedy. To try to change a game to better suit your niche group, whilst ignoring the fact that it could ruin the game for more people.

/rant

  • 06.03.2009 1:08 PM PDT

373 Plasma Pistol kills and counting

In case you haven't noticed, others have complained about other weapons having ridiculous spreads. The Assault Rifle isn't accurate enough. The Battle Rifle isn't accurate enough.

There are better ways to balance a game besides making the weapons miss randomly when my aim is spot on. I would KILL for an Assault Rifle that did 20% less damage but was 20% more accurate. Why? Because this is a game about shooting. The weapons aren't fancy clubs, and the bullets aren't "shield removers so I can kill with a beatdown". It's about aiming at another player, and gunning them down. Sure, Melee and Grenades add a bit of variety to the game, but at it's core, Halo is a first person SHOOTER.

I'll say it again, because apparently people like to "tl;dr" my posts and ignore the best bits of information. This isn't a problem of the Battle Rifle having limited range for balance reasons. The Battle Rifle actually misses within 25 meters against an unmoving target. That is absolutely ridiculous. The targetting reticule was RED, I am very close to my target, they aren't moving, and there is still a luck factor involved?

Luck does not equal balance. You can adjust the power of a weapon to make it balanced, but making it only work sometimes is absolutely ludicrous. What's next? Will they add random misfires into the game too?

I have been following Bungie since before some of you kids were born. Who played the Marathon trilogy? I did. Just because I'm a fan of Bungie doesn't mean it's my duty to kiss their ass and defend a flaw in their game. No wonder other boards mock you guys and call you fanboys. Seriously, think for yourselves for once. If you actually had a good argument for the other side maybe you could put up a convincing debate of sorts... but basically this thread is turning into two sides. The side that kisses up to bungie and "<3s bungie" and the side that "H8s bungie" but has the brains to point out a problem in the game.


Another thing I would like to add. This isn't just "Em Ell Gee" players complaining. I don't touch MLG, I only play Social Slayer and Social Big Team. Other people are tired of losing battles to luck too, not just hardcore players.

[Edited on 06.03.2009 1:30 PM PDT]

  • 06.03.2009 1:29 PM PDT
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My negetive view of the BR on game balance.

First, their are more BRs on maps then their are of any other weapons on the majority of maps. (all but 1 or 2) This is to allow you to have one frequently.

Second, the BR is the best weapon in this game. It is essentially a "long distance" power weapon. It can best nearly all other weapons at every range and situation except that weapons particular niche, it has plenty of ammo, it has plenty of range, and it is relatively easy to use. (three shot burst, deep clip, standard auto-aim) It is the number one TOD of every skilled player, because it is so powerful and simple to use.

It requires no frugality like rockets, no special positioning like the sniper, and no timing like the shotgun. It can stand up all the power weapons and succeed with the tiniest mistake by the Power Weapon user.

all it takes is aim, less aim then weaker guns, like the Carbine or magnum. It allows players with aim(a generic skill across all video games) and the slight skill gap of knowing how to camp at long range and stay away from opponents, those who don't have the weapon and don't know how to counter this tactic of staying back with BR.

Third, the skill to overcome a BR user is harder then the skill to use it, that coupled with the fact that it is the weapon with the best versatility + power, makes it unbalanced. To top it all off the BR is more frequent on maps then any other weapon. As if Bungie, for all it's proclaimed armies of playtesters (maulers on Guardian?), didn't know it was a semi-power weapon.

Honestly, if this game had less BRs on maps (or carbines in place of them) and AR/Magnum starts, then it would be much better.

This is coming from a 50 with over 4000 games, somebody who knows (at least a little bit) how game balance for Halo 3 works, and how it should work.

BTW
BR starts are not bad for Team Slayer, although they do alter the gamebalance close to breaking points on assymetrical maps, but they are a huge limit to Objective games, which are meant to be played, tactically, and strategically. Something you can't do as well if your spawn weapon has huge range, and everything on the map is worthless to fight over besides power weapons.

A shame, because Team Objective, as it was, was pretty close to how it should have been.

But Bungie is far too preoccupied with future cash machine projects to offer us a simple weapon layout shift to, at the very least, offer us some different gameplay, if not, at the very least, attempt to fix the BR problem.

Kind of ironic how the company that creates a game featuring forge, a tool specifically and originally designed for re-working weapon layouts, was largely ignored by the "playlist overlord." Besides a few obvious faults.

[Edited on 06.03.2009 1:59 PM PDT]

  • 06.03.2009 1:55 PM PDT

Puddle of Mud-''famous''and Puddle of Mud-''blurry''and ''Sound of Madness' 'and ''Welcome Home''and ''You're Gonna Go Far,Kid''and ''Ready To Fall'' and ''Stop And Stare'' and ''Bullet For My Valentine-''All These Things Hate'',and ''Breakin Benjamin-''Until The End''

people complaint cuz they suck using the BR thats why they use assault rifle and complaint about the BR

  • 06.03.2009 2:35 PM PDT

373 Plasma Pistol kills and counting

Amen.

The only thing I disagree with is that the Carbine is a weaker gun than the battle rifle. It requires much more skill (therefore has a greater chance of human error) but it kills just as fast as a Battle Rifle does.

  • 06.03.2009 2:40 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

You never fail to amuse me, Grenadier57.

Posted by: Grenadier57
First, their are more BRs on maps then their are of any other weapons on the majority of maps. (all but 1 or 2) This is to allow you to have one frequently.
I agree. Why even supply us more ammo lying around for BR starts, and why supply a weapon (though, balances better against Power Weapons) in quantity that has a clear range advantage over the limitations of the AR in AR starts? It's almost as if Bungie's doesn't really know how they want their game to be. They just disperse a bunch of weapons throughout the maps without any purpose other than to satisfy everyone, even if balance of the map is sacrificed which would satisfy everyone anyway.

Second, the BR is the best weapon in this game. It is essentially a "long distance" power weapon. It can best nearly all other weapons at every range and situation except that weapons particular niche, it has plenty of ammo, it has plenty of range, and it is relatively easy to use. (three shot burst, deep clip, standard auto-aim) It is the number one TOD of every skilled player, because it is so powerful and simple to use.

It requires no frugality like rockets, no special positioning like the sniper, and no timing like the shotgun. It can stand up all the power weapons and succeed with the tiniest mistake by the Power Weapon user.

all it takes is aim, less aim then weaker guns, like the Carbine or magnum. It allows players with aim(a generic skill across all video games) and the slight skill gap of knowing how to camp at long range and stay away from opponents, those who don't have the weapon and don't know how to counter this tactic of staying back with BR.
What makes the BR so good, is that it has more range. It isn't a Power Weapon, though, and definitely not a long ranged weapon; Power weapons kill in one shot and long ranged weapons are effective at long range (the BR is not even close to being effective. It just has the possibility of a random headshot at that range). But with this extra range, it can also be used at close-range, just like the Sniper/M6G/Carbine can.

The single-shot weapons are actually just as easy to aim. A Carbine 8-shot practically takes just as fast as a BR 4-shot. However, the Carbine's fast RoF allows a missed shot to not hurt you much. One stray bullet from the BR, and the Carbine is a better weapon, no matter how much harder you think a headshot might be. At long range, both are pretty much "spray and pray", except the BR can have a random bullet ping a Sniper (which is actually a good thing btw, and thus why the M6D's accuracy worked so well).

But, a lot of people's impression of this so-called "power weapon" is due to everyone using it. Just because people have it as their TOD doesn't make it a power weapon; it just means that people prefer having a weapon that can keep some distance from Shotguns and other close-ranged weapons, and people prefer getting headshots. Since when does having a headshot bonus and a little more range make it a Power Weapon?

Actually, decreasing the BR's power (as it has already been done from H2 to H3) makes other weapons overpowered. This is one reason why so many were and are against the BR losing power. The one thing that had always balanced the game better was the effectiveness of this all-purpose weapon; I can practically sit out in the open with a Sniper and fear noone, now.

You can say all you want about "but now teamwork is more important and that is a good thing", but that doesn't make the game more balanced or enjoyable. It just make it more frustrating unless you have a cooperative team, and even still it is frustrating.

Third, the skill to overcome a BR user is harder then the skill to use it, that coupled with the fact that it is the weapon with the best versatility + power, makes it unbalanced.The Sniper is more versatile, but that is beside the point. How does having more range unbalance the game? Also, the power of the BR is less than the AR; it just has more range. You are wrong, sir Grenadier. What makes it unbalanced is that Bungie is stressing their weapons' ranges to a range that is only effective while camping or surprising your target. You are under the impression that close-range is where all the weapons should function at. There should be only a few weapons only effective at close-range, for camping-noob purposes; the rest should be mid-range effective, but that isn't the case at all. Halo is unbalanced (and has always been) because the majority of the weapons are limited to just close-range, which makes anything that has more range automatically unbalanced.

Honestly, if this game had less BRs on maps (or carbines in place of them) and AR/Magnum starts, then it would be much better.BR starts are not a bad thing, since they balance the game to Power Weapons better. But, there is no need for so many BRs. All that does is add more advantage to those who are trying to spawn camp defenseless AR users (however, the M6G, if more people would use it, alleviates some of the problems).

A shame, because Team Objective, as it was, was pretty close to how it should have been.I stopped playing because I refuse to play AR-only starts. If M6G starts were put in it, I would've played it much more. We can only hope that Skirmish get reworked. I am a huge fan of Objectives; I always question why people veto them. However, if only Multi-flag and KOTH were the only gametypes in Skirmish and on small-medium maps, the playlist would have a huge improvement IMO. But, I still won't play it, as long as AR-only starts exist.

  • 06.03.2009 4:03 PM PDT
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The only problem with it is the......nothing!!!!!its fine

  • 06.03.2009 4:27 PM PDT

373 Plasma Pistol kills and counting

The whole AR-starts thing wouldn't be such a big deal if they didn't have such piss-poor range. I thought the Halo 3 Assault Rifle was supposed to be really accurate, but if it is, I haven't seen it. I think the Halo: CE Assault Rifle shoots further.

  • 06.03.2009 4:39 PM PDT
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Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

The Halo CE AR does indeed shoot further. All the guns in Halo CE shoot a lot farther than their Halo 3 counterparts.

  • 06.03.2009 6:21 PM PDT

373 Plasma Pistol kills and counting

Posted by: Foahda
The Halo CE AR does indeed shoot further. All the guns in Halo CE shoot a lot farther than their Halo 3 counterparts.


I just popped in Halo: CE and I was very, very surprised. Although the Motion Tracker says it was 15 meters (it's off by a long shot o_o) I could easily blast away with the Assault Rifle from quite a distance away. Even when your opponent can fit inside the reticule you can take them down with careful bursts. Even more surprising is that it can kill in only 15 bullets! It's awesome.

The Shotgun was also surprising, it can actually shoot farther than 5 feet, like a real shotgun does. I could pick off players without shields from a decent range.

The Pistol was overpowered, just like I remember. But it requires a great deal of skill as well... getting these "three-shot kills" was much more difficult than I thought it would be.

  • 06.03.2009 7:45 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: Bourbon OWNS
In case you haven't noticed, others have complained about other weapons having ridiculous spreads. The Assault Rifle isn't accurate enough. The Battle Rifle isn't accurate enough.

There are better ways to balance a game besides making the weapons miss randomly when my aim is spot on. I would KILL for an Assault Rifle that did 20% less damage but was 20% more accurate. Why? Because this is a game about shooting. The weapons aren't fancy clubs, and the bullets aren't "shield removers so I can kill with a beatdown". It's about aiming at another player, and gunning them down. Sure, Melee and Grenades add a bit of variety to the game, but at it's core, Halo is a first person SHOOTER.

I'll say it again, because apparently people like to "tl;dr" my posts and ignore the best bits of information. This isn't a problem of the Battle Rifle having limited range for balance reasons. The Battle Rifle actually misses within 25 meters against an unmoving target. That is absolutely ridiculous. The targetting reticule was RED, I am very close to my target, they aren't moving, and there is still a luck factor involved?

Luck does not equal balance. You can adjust the power of a weapon to make it balanced, but making it only work sometimes is absolutely ludicrous. What's next? Will they add random misfires into the game too?

I have been following Bungie since before some of you kids were born. Who played the Marathon trilogy? I did. Just because I'm a fan of Bungie doesn't mean it's my duty to kiss their ass and defend a flaw in their game. No wonder other boards mock you guys and call you fanboys. Seriously, think for yourselves for once. If you actually had a good argument for the other side maybe you could put up a convincing debate of sorts... but basically this thread is turning into two sides. The side that kisses up to bungie and "<3s bungie" and the side that "H8s bungie" but has the brains to point out a problem in the game.


Another thing I would like to add. This isn't just "Em Ell Gee" players complaining. I don't touch MLG, I only play Social Slayer and Social Big Team. Other people are tired of losing battles to luck too, not just hardcore players.

Right on the money.

  • 06.03.2009 8:11 PM PDT