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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
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Keep the spread, remove the randomness.

  • 07.04.2008 6:02 PM PDT

Most people that post in this thread do not even know what MLG stands for. MLG is a community of thousands of gamers who play the game at a faster pace and with more skill than the average. MLG wants the BR to change because the competitve aspect of the game is ruined by BR spread.

  • 07.04.2008 6:28 PM PDT

Yeah, I guess you could say I play competitavely. (=

I would consider myself a competitave player and I dont have any problems with the BR. I dont ever recall any pro/semi pro having problems with it either. The fact of the matter is that the spread isn't "random" enough to change the outcome of a BR vs BR battle, especially with 110% damage. I find that most of the people who are complaining about the BR are the people who get out BR'd by colonel grade 2's in the MLG playlist. If the BR is so random then why would snip3down out BR you 15 times in a row in a 1v1 game on your host? Theres ways to manipulate the spread of the BR to go in certain directions. I can prove this and I'll gladly debate anyone who honestly believes the spread is tainting competitave play.

CS 1.6 is the most competitave FPS to date, every gun in 1.6 has bullet spread and alot more spread then the BR. Learning how to control and direct this spread/recoil is what is gonna seperate GREAT players from good players.

  • 07.04.2008 6:36 PM PDT

Proud director of Black Plasma Studios. Check us out on Youtube!

Just fine! I am glad there are no more complaints. Thanx Achronos!

  • 07.04.2008 6:48 PM PDT

when life gives you lemons, throw them back and ask for cookies.


light a man a fire and he will be warm for the night.
light a man ON fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
do the right thing >:)

i don't use the br much... but that's because i play for fun not to win (although winning is nice) so i normally just rush the other team with the weapon i spawn with but when i am playing to win i almost always pick up the br, i'm not that good with it and it works fine for me, all the shots hit where i want them to. the only time it doesn't work is when the game lags but that's not because it's broken it's because someone has a bad connection and it messes up all the weapons not just the br.

Posted by: I Cloud007 I
If people haven't noticed it's mostly the high level players who dislike the random factor of the BR and the lower level players who love the assault rifle and hate the BR. The lower level players should practice more with the precision weapons in the game and they will improve drastically and maybe come to understand the reasons for players feeling unhappy about the current situation. It is the assault rifle which has limited their rank because better players can overcome it however they choose to stick with it because Bungie made it too easy to use.


just wondering how the assault rifle is considered "overpowered" with the ar i normally get 1 or 2 kills per death normally 1 but with almost any other weapon i get a lot more kills per death and with the br getting a killing spree is really easy unless i get unlucky and get hit by another stray rocket or something like that

  • 07.04.2008 6:55 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: stalts27
the new br takes more skill

Yes, because randomness and dropped bullets takes skills.

Good point.

  • 07.04.2008 7:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: johnnny023
just wondering how the assault rifle is considered "overpowered" with the ar i normally get 1 or 2 kills per death normally 1 but with almost any other weapon i get a lot more kills per death and with the br getting a killing spree is really easy unless i get unlucky and get hit by another stray rocket or something like that
People just hate the 6 AR shots+Melee= Kill. However that means that the melee is overpowered, not the Assault Rifle. I believe that the melee damage should be decreased. Hell, they should bring back that system where standing +melee did some damage, running+melee did more damage, and jumping+melee did the most damage.

  • 07.04.2008 7:16 PM PDT
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FIX THE BR SPREAD!

  • 07.04.2008 7:22 PM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
The BR works fine at Medium distance.


No it doesn't.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Really? The BR doesn't work at this range? That's really weird since I seem to consistently get kills at this "medium" distance. I pick up the BR consistently. I use it all the time. This isn't my only Gamertag. I use a lot of them. I made it to a 30 in the MLG playlist the week after it was released and decided that it was boring, monotone, and pointless. So I've seen the BR in pretty much every situation so far and still don't see a problem with it.


Really? The BR works at this range? That's really weird since there seems to be a harmonious uproar from a significant portion of the community. What other gamertags do you have Berserker Barage? I'd like to see them. Your biased, anti-MLG opinion makes me question the integrity of your argument - are you simply choosing to not accept that there isn't a problem?

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
I'm sorry BakedPotato. You're wrong. I've shown you why you're wrong. The problem comes down to the point that your perception of the weapon is wrong. *You* are broken.


Where have you shown me why I was wrong? A plethora of times I have presented my argument towards the tightening of the BR spread, I disproved your argument of tightening the AR spread, yet you chose to ignore this and instead pick certain parts of my argument to rebut.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Yeah, the 10,000 kills I have with the BR in Halo 3 means I have no idea how the BR works. It means that since I've used it so much I understand why it IS NOT broken. Here's a tip. Try to actually put something of worth if you reply to me instead of resorting to ad hominems about how you *think* I haven't played Halo 3 or used the BR. You're the type of person who thinks their opinion is worth more than others. And you certainly haven't given me a single reason why to think your opinion is worth anything.


What account did you get said kills on? How about you tell me why it isn't broken before claiming the debate as yours? Here's a tip. Try to actually rebut my whole argument instead of ignoring certain parts. You made your outrageous claims comparing the tightening of the AR spread and the BR spread, I rebut said claims and you ignored my rebuttal. So, for your convenience I will link you to my rebuttal. Try and say something about it before attacking my perceptions.

Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Neither would I.

If they make the BR a hitscan weapon again I'll want my full-aut AR-sniper next.

~B.B.


I don't know why you keep bringing up this point, firstly the AR works perfectly at its intended range as it is know. If anything, it is overpowered as of now.

Besides, if you did get your full-aut AR-sniper, the recoil would be too much to utilise it properly over a long range. All we ask is for the BR to work at its intended range, because as of now, it doesn't. Tightening the spread of either the AR or BR to the precision of the Sniper is ludicrous. No, all we ask is for the Battle Rifle to perform consistently at a medium range, because as of now, combat is being determined by luck, and luck is a poor substitute for skill.



[Edited on 07.04.2008 7:25 PM PDT]

  • 07.04.2008 7:24 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: WiiSE
Most people that post in this thread do not even know what MLG stands for. MLG is a community of thousands of gamers who play the game at a faster pace and with more skill than the average. MLG wants the BR to change because the competitve aspect of the game is ruined by BR spread.


Don't be absurd. Way to make that MLG community look worse by your comment. -rep

~B.B.

  • 07.04.2008 7:24 PM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: WiiSE
Most people that post in this thread do not even know what MLG stands for. MLG is a community of thousands of gamers who play the game at a faster pace and with more skill than the average. MLG wants the BR to change because the competitve aspect of the game is ruined by BR spread.


Don't be absurd. Way to make that MLG community look worse by your comment. -rep

~B.B.


He is right. Randomness has no place in competitive gaming, and as I've said many times, luck is a poor substitute for skill. But I agree, his post came across arrogantly.

  • 07.04.2008 7:42 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
No it doesn't.


Actually it does. Weee..this is fun.

Really? The BR works at this range? That's really weird since there seems to be a harmonious uproar from a significant portion of the community. What other gamertags do you have Berserker Barage? I'd like to see them. Your biased, anti-MLG opinion makes me question the integrity of your argument - are you simply choosing to not accept that there isn't a problem?

One, it's not harmonious. I've seen people that consider themselves "competitive" gamers who don't have a problem with the BR spread. I've seen people that consider themselves "casual" gamers who don't have a problem with the BR spread. And the "uproar" isn't coming from a "significant portion of the community". That was flippin' hilarious when you said that. You would be an MLG kid who thinks that their "community" is a "significant portion". You guys just don't seem to get it. You aren't a significant part of the community. You're a vocal minority. One that is getting annoying.

There ISN'T a problem. You have a problem. I'm not choosing to "not accept that there is a problem"; I'm telling you that there isn't a problem. I have 7 separate Gamertags, do you want links to all of them? I'm sure I actually have more than 10k BR kills, that was a purposefully low estimate.


Where have you shown me why I was wrong? A plethora of times I have presented my argument towards the tightening of the BR spread, I disproved your argument of tightening the AR spread, yet you chose to ignore this and instead pick certain parts of my argument to rebut.


You are for removing the BR spread but you aren't for removing the AR spread. The argument you're trying to utilize would apply to both of them. You are saying that the BR spread should be removed because battles are being won because of randomness and not skill. The same thing is true for the Assault Rifle. IMO, the Assault Rifle does not fulfill it's role properly right now. The gun has really become a "fire short burst and melee". This is problematic because if that's the AR's supposed role it is getting easily beat by shotguns, maulers, etc. IMO the AR should be a weapon that works well at the 10-12WU distance (short distance) but it doesn't. It takes a whole clip to kill from this distance and half the times you can't and have to reload.

Again, tightening the spread would do little to solve your complaint. The BR spread is essentially a scalar measure. Without being a vector, it will always be random and unpredictable. Tightening the spread would not stop "battles from being won by luck instead of skill".


What account did you get said kills on? How about you tell me why it isn't broken before claiming the debate as yours? Here's a tip. Try to actually rebut my whole argument instead of ignoring certain parts. You made your outrageous claims comparing the tightening of the AR spread and the BR spread, I rebut said claims and you ignored my rebuttal. So, for your convenience I will link you to my rebuttal. Try and say something about it before attacking my perceptions.


Again, do you want the links to all 7 of my gamertags? I'll be happy to PM them to you. The BR isn't broken because it fulfills it's role in Halo 3's weapon balance. It works at "medium" range. The spread is mitigated when you are within 18WUs away. Outside of this range the spread begins to take effect and limit the effectiveness of the weapon in order to balance it. Same thing is true of the Assault Rifle. Outside of a very short distance the Assault Rifle starts to lose effectiveness because of Bullet Spread. If you don't want the game to be determined by bullet spread you would have to remove it from the: Assault Rifle, Battle Rifle, and Shotgun. All of these weapons have bullet spread that limit their effectiveness past a certain distance. To claim that the Battle Rifle is broken because of this aspect while not saying the same for the Assault Rifle or Shotgun is incorrect. Your perception is that the H3 Battle Rifle should kill in 4 shots consistently. I fail to see where this stipulated anywhere by Bungie.

Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
I don't know why you keep bringing up this point, firstly the AR works perfectly at its intended range as it is know. If anything, it is overpowered as of now.


I disagree. I don't feel that the AR works perfectly at it's intended distance. I feel that the AR spread keeps the weapon to only a weapon that can be used in team with the melee. But at the same time I understand that if Bungie had not put bullet spread on the AR it would be an increasingly powerful weapon that would overpower many others. Just like removing bullet spread would make the BR an increasingly powerful weapon that overpowers many others.

Besides, if you did get your full-aut AR-sniper, the recoil would be too much to utilise it properly over a long range. All we ask is for the BR to work at its intended range, because as of now, it doesn't. Tightening the spread of either the AR or BR to the precision of the Sniper is ludicrous. No, all we ask is for the Battle Rifle to perform consistently at a medium range, because as of now, combat is being determined by luck, and luck is a poor substitute for skill.

Apparently you have no problem with combat being determined by luck because you don't oppose bullet spread on either the Assault Rifle or the Shotgun. The BR does perform consistently at medium range when you look at what Bungie considers "medium range". Again, it seems that your problem is that the Battle Rifle doesn't operate consistently at what YOU consider middle range. That's still your problem as it always has been.

Oh, and stop misquoting Tyson Green. It's a pathetic attempt at an argument. I can take quotes out of context and use them too. I don't because it would make me look idiotic.

~B.B.

  • 07.04.2008 7:54 PM PDT
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Wow... just wow. It's a mid range weapon. That means it SHOULDNT be super accurate, like in h2. The spread brings balance into the game. now you can survive with other weapons. Your goal is to be able to pick up (or spawn with, even better!) one weapon that fullfills all weapon roles. that should not be possible.

If you could read, you should also realize that IT WILL NOT BE "FIXED". just read Achronos's first post. All this thread is for is to unspam the forums. You just need to give up. Turn off the computer. Pick up a book. try tennis. Go to the pool. There are other things in halo than the BR spread, and other weapons in halo than the BR, and other things in life than Halo.

  • 07.04.2008 7:56 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: WiiSE
Most people that post in this thread do not even know what MLG stands for. MLG is a community of thousands of gamers who play the game at a faster pace and with more skill than the average. MLG wants the BR to change because the competitve aspect of the game is ruined by BR spread.


Don't be absurd. Way to make that MLG community look worse by your comment. -rep

~B.B.


He is right. Randomness has no place in competitive gaming, and as I've said many times, luck is a poor substitute for skill. But I agree, his post came across arrogantly.


That's great. Halo 3 =/= competitive gaming! Apparently randomness does have a place in competitive gaming because MLG uses the mauler which has a random bullet spread. So does the shotgun, which MLG had to remove from their gametypes because their poor decision to up damage to 110%.

Making a game that appeals specifically to "competitive gaming" is a bad choice. See Shadowrun and FASA.

~B.B.

  • 07.04.2008 7:57 PM PDT
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I like the br the way it is.

  • 07.04.2008 8:02 PM PDT

Ricsina.Killer

If only it were so easy. BR Battles on BR arena.

  • 07.04.2008 8:03 PM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: WiiSE
Most people that post in this thread do not even know what MLG stands for. MLG is a community of thousands of gamers who play the game at a faster pace and with more skill than the average. MLG wants the BR to change because the competitve aspect of the game is ruined by BR spread.


Don't be absurd. Way to make that MLG community look worse by your comment. -rep

~B.B.


He is right. Randomness has no place in competitive gaming, and as I've said many times, luck is a poor substitute for skill. But I agree, his post came across arrogantly.


That's great. Halo 3 =/= competitive gaming! Apparently randomness does have a place in competitive gaming because MLG uses the mauler which has a random bullet spread. So does the shotgun, which MLG had to remove from their gametypes because their poor decision to up damage to 110%.

Making a game that appeals specifically to "competitive gaming" is a bad choice. See Shadowrun and FASA.

~B.B.

If you ever played an MLG custom, you would notice that the Mauler is hardly used. Besides, I personally don't think that there should be a Mauler in MLG. Amongst other things, it promotes camping around corners, which is something I frown upon in a frenetic fast paced game like Halo.

[Edited on 07.04.2008 8:05 PM PDT]

  • 07.04.2008 8:04 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: BakedPotatoLive

If you ever played an MLG custom, you would notice that the Mauler is hardly used. Besides, I personally don't think that there should be a Mauler in MLG. Amongst other things, it promotes camping around corners, which is something I frown upon in a frenetic fast paced game like Halo.


Does MLG currently use the mauler (which has bullet spread) in their H3 variants? Did MLG not use the H2 shotgun (which has bullet spread) in their H2 variants? Apparently MLG has no problem with weapons that have bullet spread. Whether or not *you* have a problem with bullet spread in competitive gaming I honestly couldn't care less about.

Posted by: TKER
Berserker, you are my Hero.
Way to shove some reasoning down those kids throats.


I do what I can...I do what I can...

~B.B.

[Edited on 07.04.2008 8:12 PM PDT]

  • 07.04.2008 8:11 PM PDT

Look Berserka, I could argue all day about what my perception of the intended range is, what I have experienced with the BR and you will continue to say how perfectly it works for you.

I have no problem with bullet spread - just random bullet spread. I am all for removing the random spread of the AR, Shotgun and BR. The BR does not work consistantly at medium range. That is my opinion and a hell of a lot of people share it. You can continue to undermine and condescend the MLG community as nothing more than an annoying vocal minority, that's your own opinion. I will continue to believe that Bungie has duplicitous corporate undertones, that's my prerogative. This argument is heading nowhere - your opinion won't change and neither will mine. I am simply not the type of person to take Bungie's word as holy - they say the BR is working as intended, which is fine if they intended it to be broken. You may disagree with the 'broken' part, you will reply saying it is fixed and I will reply saying it is broken and so on and so on, like we have been doing for the better part of the week. I have said all I believe needs to be said on the topic, you have adopted an opposing view and I doubt either of us could sway the other's opinion.
I do want to see your other gamertags however, and I have no idea who Tyson Green is.

  • 07.04.2008 8:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: GIR091572
Posted by: mooshmoossh
I like the BR just the way it is.

I really don't see what's wrong with it.

I feel the same way

yup same here

  • 07.04.2008 8:23 PM PDT

Posted by: TKER
You have cracked Bungies secret: They all sit around in a boardroom contemplating ways to makes weapons broken and annoy people who consider themselves part of the "competitive community".
The thing is though, really seem to be the only ones who give half a crap about the spread. The average player (the "joes" make up a MUCH larger population than the "pros") really couldn't care less about it. I don't hear people in MM screaming "-blam!- this BR spread, I could of killed that kid if it wasn't for the spread" *Cue fist shaking*.
The Sniper is the resident Long-Range weapon in the game, not the BR.


Bungie went from balancing competitive play perfectly with casual play, and managed to turn a tidy profit. They then turned completely away from competitive play and went for casual play, and managed to turn a larger profit. Illegal no, Immoral maybe, Greedy yes.

Not once have I tried to dispute the fact that we are a vocal minority. Trying to undermine our views and opinions because we are a vocal minority is what I don't like; just because our population is not as dense as yours, does not mean that our opinion is any less valid.

Finally, I have said before that I don't want to turn the BR into a long range weapon. I merely want the random spreads in Halo 3 removed, and the BR spread tightened just a little so that it works consistantly at medium range.

  • 07.04.2008 8:30 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
Look Berserka, I could argue all day about what my perception of the intended range is, what I have experienced with the BR and you will continue to say how perfectly it works for you.

I have no problem with bullet spread - just random bullet spread. I am all for removing the random spread of the AR, Shotgun and BR. The BR does not work consistantly at medium range. That is my opinion and a hell of a lot of people share it. You can continue to undermine and condescend the MLG community as nothing more than an annoying vocal minority, that's your own opinion. I will continue to believe that Bungie has duplicitous corporate undertones, that's my prerogative. This argument is heading nowhere - your opinion won't change and neither will mine. I am simply not the type of person to take Bungie's word as holy - they say the BR is working as intended, which is fine if they intended it to be broken. You may disagree with the 'broken' part, you will reply saying it is fixed and I will reply saying it is broken and so on and so on, like we have been doing for the better part of the week. I have said all I believe needs to be said on the topic, you have adopted an opposing view and I doubt either of us could sway the other's opinion.
I do want to see your other gamertags however, and I have no idea who Tyson Green is.


I don't blindly follow Bungie's word. I feel that certain things they've done with H3 were mistakes. I've also learned what I think is best isn't always the best decision for everyone. I think the Mongoose should go twice as fast as it does. I think the tripmine was kick-ass in the Delta but is crappy in the final game. I think that not being able to put all weapons on maps through Forge is pretty crappy.

I do however feel that the spread on the BR is not a mistake or "broken". I agree that adding a spread can balance a weapon. Which is why I don't have a problem with it on the AR, BR, or Shottys.

I have no problem with the entire MLG community. That would be silly. I have a problem with a lot of the more "outspoken" members of the MLG community. I've met a couple people with MLG (ChaosTheory and TheInsanityTest) that are outstanding people. We have disagreements on several things but I've always had decent conversations while disagreeing. I would imagine that the people that Bungie has/had during development from MLG are much the same way. However, it seems much of their community isn't the same way.

One final thing; again removing the "random" aspect of bullet spread wouldn't change anything. Let's say they made the spread on the BR at bullet #1 = .1, bullet#2 = .2, and bullet#3 = .3 for simplicity. These values only represent the distance the bullet moves from the center of reticule. This is what is referred to as a "scalar" value. It only represents 1 part of the equation. If you get a spread that has bullet #3 moving .3WUs to the right while your opponent is strafing to the left, you'll still miss him because of the spread. Even with a constant value. Bullet spread isn't a "vector" which gives you amount of deviation and direction. Having a random bullet spread versus having a constant bullet spread is almost no difference. I'll say again, you're either completely against bullet spread or you're for it. There is no middle room.

~B.B.

  • 07.04.2008 8:40 PM PDT