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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!


One final thing; again removing the "random" aspect of bullet spread wouldn't change anything. Let's say they made the spread on the BR at bullet #1 = .1, bullet#2 = .2, and bullet#3 = .3 for simplicity. These values only represent the distance the bullet moves from the center of reticule. This is what is referred to as a "scalar" value. It only represents 1 part of the equation. If you get a spread that has bullet #3 moving .3WUs to the right while your opponent is strafing to the left, you'll still miss him because of the spread. Even with a constant value. Bullet spread isn't a "vector" which gives you amount of deviation and direction. Having a random bullet spread versus having a constant bullet spread is almost no difference. I'll say again, you're either completely against bullet spread or you're for it. There is no middle room.

~B.B.

I agree with some of what you say, that you will still miss with bullets because of that 3rd bullet's spread. However, people have problems with the fact that sometimes the 3rd bullet is tight and sometimes the 3rd bullet is wide, so sometimes it feels like your bullets are hitting and sometimes that your bullets are missing. You can see this on a stationary player when the shields flash more when all your bullets are hitting, and the shields don't flash as much when a bullet misses. This is really only evident in mid-ranges and when aiming for the small target that is the head.

Every gun shoots randomly (yes, including the Carbine and the Magnum) except the Sniper, but people are unhappy about the BR because it's used the most and was originally put into the game to be the next Halo:CE Pistol. The spread just kills it for me, because it is supposed to be a skilled weapon, but sprays bullets everywhere like the AR. In fact, the AR's spread is almost the same as the BR's. I would like it better if they would just take out the whole 3 bullet burst fire or at least make the bullets shoot in a line. A spread creates a less skillful way of shooting people by sweeping the cross-hair across your target...I don't like it.

EDIT: When I said AR's spread, I meant AR's spread when using a 3 bullet burst fire.

[Edited on 07.04.2008 9:23 PM PDT]

  • 07.04.2008 9:08 PM PDT

I've read this whole thread (after the comments I made on the first few pages) and I just want to point out a few things that I think address a lot of the posts so far.

- Bungies decisions are always up for question and debate. Don't be a minion and agree with everything they say. Question them, and debate their choices. I think to do anything less would be a disservice to both them and the community. Blind obedience won't get us anywhere.

- "Don't use it" is not an answer to the BR issue. It is a cop-out. If you really want to use that phrase as an argument, you also need to suggest an alternative starting weapon that could fill the role of the BR. You can't start with Carbines, so there really isn't any replacement for the BR at the moment in Halo 3.

- Post more then just your opinion. Use examples, evidence, and well thought out points to convince people of your arguments. "The BR is fine" does not add anything to the discussion.

I'll probably edit this later and add more.

  • 07.04.2008 9:50 PM PDT
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Bungie you idiots, if you want a weapon to take skill, don't make the spread so random so that anybody can win.

  • 07.04.2008 9:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: Morsanak123
I dislike the BR spread because it just adds a randomness factor to it that I dont like. I like having to lead your shots though because in halo 2 when the BR was a hitscan weapon anybody could 4-shot easily now its a little harder so it easily sets apart the players with good BRs and bad BRs.


So you think your gonna hit someone EVERYTIME in real life with a bullet?

  • 07.05.2008 3:51 AM PDT

go to www.hilessons.proboards42.com

Okay guys... here it is. I did the calculations and figured it out.

The "Mid-Range" i think every one could agree upon would be roughly 7-10 World Units, or W.U.
Isn't that right?
Now, Taking into account the spread of the BR, the MOST, and ABSOLUTE MOST your 3rd bullet would fly outside of the dead center of the reticule is approximately 6 inches. Now, if you are using the battle rifle correctly, leading your shots, and you have a decent internet connection, that bullet will NOT miss your target's head. WILL NOT. the Master Chief's head is approximately 1 square foot, and when aiming at the center of it, the bullet will NOT MISS AND YOU WILL KILL YOUR OPPONENT. Also, take into account that this is the MOST the bullet could be off. The bullet could be dead center, or anything in between.

At "Long-Range" which would be for the average player about 18-20 W.U.
Do you agree?
Okay. So, at "long range" the MOST your third battle rifle bullet could be off is about 1 foot, which means it will not yield a kill, If the Battle rifle is being used correctly, with a decent connection. BUT, THE BATTLE RIFLE IS NOT CONSIDERED A LONG RANGE WEAPON, THEREFORE YOU SHOULD NOT BE TRYING TO GUN SOMEONE DOWN AT THIS RANGE. At this range, however, the battle rifle could be good for pinging a sniper, for the momentary cover, or for an opportunity to approach your opponent.

At "short-range", which I think the average player could consider anywhere from 1-6 W.U.
The battle rifle is almost dead accurate. The absolute most the third bullet could miss would be just about 2-4 inches, depending on the distance you are from your opponent. Therefore, THE THIRD BULLET WILL NEVER MISS THE HEAD OF YOUR TARGET. NEVER. THEREFORE, YOU WILL KILL YOUR OPPONENT, under reasonable network conditions and when being used correctly.

These values are the most the third bullet of the battle rifle burst will miss by, based on bungie's weekly update. Again, take into account that these are only the ABSOLUTE WORST possibilities for the third, most inaccurate bullet of the BR's three bullet burst.

  • 07.05.2008 4:48 AM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Yeah, the 10,000 kills I have with the BR in Halo 3 means I have no idea how the BR works. It means that since I've used it so much I understand why it IS NOT broken. Here's a tip. Try to actually put something of worth if you reply to me instead of resorting to ad hominems about how you *think* I haven't played Halo 3 or used the BR. You're the type of person who thinks their opinion is worth more than others. And you certainly haven't given me a single reason why to think your opinion is worth anything.

~B.B.

Berserker, you sure do have a lot to say on the BR subject, with your overly long and convoluted babble. You'd think someone who had so much to say on the subject, would have more then negligible experience with it - your top tool of destruction is the Assault Rifle... that in itself speaks volumes. How can people trust your opinion on the BR subject, when you barely use it (16% of your kills, with only 700+ kills with it) (and you say 10,000 kills with the BR? My ass!). Come back when the BR is your top weapon of destruction, with at least 50% of your kills, and with over 10,000 kills with it. Then your opinion might be worth listening to. As is, you are coming across as a very ignorant person, who likes to hear himself spat. Nobody likes someone who tries to act all knowledgeable on a subject they know little about.

- And we don't want to hear the, i don't use that account, but have many other accounts that i use, BS.

Also, please explain:

How is inconsistency in the BR spread a good thing for an accurate weapon, for competitive play?

How is dropped BR bullets (you hit your opponent, but it doesn't register) a good thing?


Oh, and one more thing... stop trying to come across as articulate, because you're just making an ass of yourself.

~M.K. ;)

[Edited on 07.09.2008 3:21 AM PDT]

  • 07.05.2008 7:14 AM PDT

DEEP NNN = Depends

Clan 2old2pwn on 2old2play.

Don't let yesterday use up too much of today.

Posted by: Nokterne
I've read this whole thread (after the comments I made on the first few pages) and I just want to point out a few things that I think address a lot of the posts so far.

- Bungies decisions are always up for question and debate. Don't be a minion and agree with everything they say. Question them, and debate their choices. I think to do anything less would be a disservice to both them and the community. Blind obedience won't get us anywhere.

- "Don't use it" is not an answer to the BR issue. It is a cop-out. If you really want to use that phrase as an argument, you also need to suggest an alternative starting weapon that could fill the role of the BR. You can't start with Carbines, so there really isn't any replacement for the BR at the moment in Halo 3.

- Post more then just your opinion. Use examples, evidence, and well thought out points to convince people of your arguments. "The BR is fine" does not add anything to the discussion.

I'll probably edit this later and add more.
You're nothing if not persistent.

I'm beginning to think your real purpose is to get recognized by Bungie for not giving up on the subject and not because you want the BR changed.

Simple one liners like "The BR is fine" is an expression of personal preference. It may not be scientific but if Bungie sees the majority of players are happy and their statistics are okay then the persistent nay sayers will fail to get what they want. Pay attention to some of Achronos' recent replies.


  • 07.05.2008 7:57 AM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3. So just make the BR like it was in H2 Bungie. TY

  • 07.05.2008 8:41 AM PDT

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

bungie took away almost ALL of the element of skill in halo, its now become a game based around grenades and power weapons its not whos got the better shot anymore, its whos got the bigger gun, the br spread is a joke...to believe its a skilled weapon is a joke . alot of the time i play mlg i play generals and im SURE there better at the game than me but i still win them in br battles because of the SPREAD...nothing else we both hit our shots but i win becuase i get a lucky spread and then the next time we see eachother he wins becuase he gets a better spread.. thank you for making a br spread and please kindly LISTEN to the community

we may be only 99% who notice the br but that 1% still exists ...

  • 07.05.2008 9:52 AM PDT


Covenant Cival War

Oh yeah BTW...... WHERES'S MY GIGGITY COOKIE!!!

Posted by: mooshmoossh
I like the BR just the way it is.

I really don't see what's wrong with it.


I can't find a single thing wrong with it either.

  • 07.05.2008 10:37 AM PDT

this is halo 3 right? this is a next gen game right? this game was created with the ability to make tweaks and changes right? maybe the devs should make a playlist. a social weeklong playlist where these changes are made. where you can go in an beta test these tweaks. then during this week everyone can post comments and concerns about the changes. for once i would like these guys to do something so that we can see what it would be like if it were a permanent fix. change the spread and let the community who plays this game and enjoy this game decide what they want. anyone who isnt smart enough or knowleable enough to come here and write in the forums shouldnt get a say in what is better or worse for the game. halo 1 was great because it created friendships. it established a common ground. if someone is frustrated with the state of a game they are playing then they will not play it long enough to develope a friendship. no one is perfect and no one makes perfect game, but alteast you guys at bungie had the forsight to make a game that can be tweaked after release. so please for the love of the number 7 work with your community to make this game better. we all love Halo otherwise we wouldnt be here.

  • 07.05.2008 10:55 AM PDT
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you are retarded bungie, why the hell did you put randomness into the competitive weapon of choice. put randomness in noob weapons like the AR

  • 07.05.2008 10:58 AM PDT

if bungie is unwilling to change the spread of the BR or whatnot then i have to suggest that the speed at which the bullet travels needs to be increased. on XBL the bullets just dont seem to reach the intended target quickly enough often resulting in missed shots. so increase the speed at which the bullet travels and it will tighten the spread and lower the randomness. on lan it wont matter. cuz if you can hit a target with bullets moving slower then you can certainly hit the same target with the bullets moving faster. so i believe that the change the BR thread should be change the BR bullet speed thread.

  • 07.05.2008 11:09 AM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: MadroKurgan
Berserker, you sure do have a lot to say on the BR subject, with your overly long and convoluted babble. You'd think someone who had so much to say on the subject, would have more then negligible experience with it - your top tool of destruction is the Assault Rifle... that in itself speaks volumes. How can people trust your opinion on the BR subject, when you barely use it (16% of your kills, with only 700+ kills with it) (and you say 10,000 kills with the BR? My ass!). Come back when the BR is your top weapon of destruction, with at least 50% of your kills, and with over 5,000 kills with it. Then your opinion might be worth listening to. As is, you are coming across as a very ignorant person, who likes to hear himself spat. Nobody likes someone who tries to act all knowledgeable on a subject they know little about.

I have 5572 kills with the BR and it's my tool of destruction for Ranked and Social.

I agree with BB.

How is dropped BR bullets (you hit your opponent, but it doesn't register) a good thing?
~M.K. ;)


You realize this doesn't just affect the BR, right? I affects most of the weapons. It's not a BR problem, it's a netcode problem. This happens on the AR, Spiker, SMG, just about everything that isn't one shot.

  • 07.05.2008 11:10 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: MadroKurgan
[Berserker, you sure do have a lot to say on the BR subject, with your overly long and convoluted babble. You'd think someone who had so much to say on the subject, would have more then negligible experience with it - your top tool of destruction is the Assault Rifle... that in itself speaks volumes. How can people trust your opinion on the BR subject, when you barely use it (16% of your kills, with only 700+ kills with it) (and you say 10,000 kills with the BR? My ass!). Come back when the BR is your top weapon of destruction, with at least 50% of your kills, and with over 5,000 kills with it. Then your opinion might be worth listening to. As is, you are coming across as a very ignorant person, who likes to hear himself spat. Nobody likes someone who tries to act all knowledgeable on a subject they know little about.


Wow, such a trolling post but I'll humor you. I actually have 16,542 kills with the BR. Here are some but not all of my accounts:
1.) BerserkerBarage = 2,983 BR kills
2.) AdversePosesion = 3,292 BR kills
3.) MLG is for BKs = 3,033 BR kills
4.) I7ante Hicks = 51 BR kills
5.) LiesAndSlander = 3,476 BR kills
6.) OlafDoBerzerker = 3,707 BR kills

Grand Total = 16,542 BR kills. If you don't believe any of these are my accounts I can have at least 3 moderators come in here and verify that they are me.

You on the other hand have a total of 10,359 BR kills which makes you 6,183 BR KILLS LESS THAN ME. So according to your convoluted logic, since I have more BR kills than you I obviously know more about it than you. What's sad is that isn't all of my account I still have 2 more.

Ugh oh...apparently my opinion is worth more than yours...

- And we don't want to hear the, i don't use that account, but have many other accounts that i use, BS.

Again, I can have Achilles, Recon, Leche, Foman, TGP, or EvilCam verify that all of those accounts do in fact belong to me. I've played in their parties on those gametags in the past.

Also, please explain:
How is inconsistency in the BR spread a good thing for an accurate weapon, for competitive play?
How is dropped BR bullets (you hit your opponent, but it doesn't register) a good thing?


The Battle Rifle isn't solely reserved for competitive play. Having a BR spread makes the weapon balanced compared to the others, just like having an AR spread makes it balanced. And as Gzalzi already pointed out dropped BR bullets deals more with netcode than the weapon itself. Plus, most of the people who have constantly complained about "dropped bullets" have been shown to have HORRIBLE connection/host records.

Oh, and one more thing... stop trying to come across as articulate, because you're just making an ass of yourself.

~M.K. ;)


Actually, I don't see it that way and quite honestly this is how I talk all the time. I'm not trying to come "across" as articulate; I don't have to. And in all actuality the person who is making an ass out of themselves is you. You think that people can't comment on the BR if they don't met some random criteria. Well, too bad for you that I more than met your criteria so that means my opinion is obviously worth more than yours. Thank you come again. And next time you *try* to reply to me don't waste my time with childish crap.

Grow a brain.

~B.B. ;)

[Edited on 07.05.2008 12:26 PM PDT]

  • 07.05.2008 12:23 PM PDT

"Death is an inconvenience now.... We are All Dead Men Walking."
"The Sniper Rifle is a Support weapon, your supposed to sneak around with it. Not stand in the open"
"Armor Lock is boss if you know how to use it!"
"I like the idea of a professional troll, though, it makes me think of a hideous creature under a bridge handing out business cards." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw

I like the BR as it is but I want to know Why was it changed from a Single Shot to a 3 round Burst?

  • 07.05.2008 12:31 PM PDT

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

rofl 1 shot to 3 burst????? WTF much

  • 07.05.2008 12:52 PM PDT

"Death is an inconvenience now.... We are All Dead Men Walking."
"The Sniper Rifle is a Support weapon, your supposed to sneak around with it. Not stand in the open"
"Armor Lock is boss if you know how to use it!"
"I like the idea of a professional troll, though, it makes me think of a hideous creature under a bridge handing out business cards." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw

Posted by: Jammyd0dger93
rofl 1 shot to 3 burst????? WTF much


Dude I'm serious look up Halo 2 E3 Demo on youtube. Its a single shot.

[Edited on 07.05.2008 12:55 PM PDT]

  • 07.05.2008 12:55 PM PDT

1.Arkham Asylum, 2.Mass Effect, 3.Halo CE, 4.Mass Effect 2, 5.Halo 2, 6.Splinter Cell Double Agent, 7.Gears of War 2, 8.Medievil, 9.Oblivion, 10.Crash Team Racing

Posted by: WsP POP TART
Posted by: Jammyd0dger93
rofl 1 shot to 3 burst????? WTF much


Dude I'm serious look up Halo 2 E3 Demo on youtube. Its a single shot.


Carbine.

  • 07.05.2008 3:35 PM PDT

"Death is an inconvenience now.... We are All Dead Men Walking."
"The Sniper Rifle is a Support weapon, your supposed to sneak around with it. Not stand in the open"
"Armor Lock is boss if you know how to use it!"
"I like the idea of a professional troll, though, it makes me think of a hideous creature under a bridge handing out business cards." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw

Posted by: kalle90
Posted by: WsP POP TART
Posted by: Jammyd0dger93
rofl 1 shot to 3 burst????? WTF much


Dude I'm serious look up Halo 2 E3 Demo on youtube. Its a single shot.


Carbine.


Don't Believe Me
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ihjgijK8wQs

And yes this WAS Halo 2 not some modded version of Halo 1

[Edited on 07.05.2008 4:47 PM PDT]

  • 07.05.2008 4:44 PM PDT

"I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I have seen too much religion in the eyes of too many murderers. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness. What God desires is in your mind, and in your heart, and what you decide to do every day, you will be a good man - or not." ~ Hospitaller, 1186 A.D.

Random spread and a lack of instant hit detection have made it so that the BR is not a one man killing machine in Halo 3, but instead a weapon that requires practice and skill to use.

Do you realize how dumb you just made yourself look? Randomness = Skill? WTF? How can you practice or hone your skills on something if it is random? Meaning it is different every time. You can't. The BR was a not a one man killing machine in Halo 2, it had the ABILITY to be one though. There is a difference. If the player was good enough to be a one man killing machine, then he could be, because his BR worked the way it had when he practiced and he could trust it. It was reliable. It was a tool to express his skill, and it did it accurately. There was no random spread that revolved more around luck and network strength.

What your quote should have said was: "There were people good enough to be one man killing machines in Halo 2, because the BR had unlimited skill factored in to it, the better player would ALWAYS win. There was never a cut-off where if both people were at or above a certain skill luck would decide the outcome of the battle."

  • 07.05.2008 5:50 PM PDT

i believe the BR was one of the best things in Halo 3. SWAT is my only Matchmaking choice if im playing for liesure and not exp. or skill.

  • 07.05.2008 7:05 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: MadroKurgan
[Berserker, you sure do have a lot to say on the BR subject, with your overly long and convoluted babble. You'd think someone who had so much to say on the subject, would have more then negligible experience with it - your top tool of destruction is the Assault Rifle... that in itself speaks volumes. How can people trust your opinion on the BR subject, when you barely use it (16% of your kills, with only 700+ kills with it) (and you say 10,000 kills with the BR? My ass!). Come back when the BR is your top weapon of destruction, with at least 50% of your kills, and with over 5,000 kills with it. Then your opinion might be worth listening to. As is, you are coming across as a very ignorant person, who likes to hear himself spat. Nobody likes someone who tries to act all knowledgeable on a subject they know little about.


Wow, such a trolling post but I'll humor you. I actually have 16,542 kills with the BR. Here are some but not all of my accounts:
1.) BerserkerBarage = 2,983 BR kills
2.) AdversePosesion = 3,292 BR kills
3.) MLG is for BKs = 3,033 BR kills
4.) I7ante Hicks = 51 BR kills
5.) LiesAndSlander = 3,476 BR kills
6.) OlafDoBerzerker = 3,707 BR kills

Grand Total = 16,542 BR kills. If you don't believe any of these are my accounts I can have at least 3 moderators come in here and verify that they are me.

You on the other hand have a total of 10,359 BR kills which makes you 6,183 BR KILLS LESS THAN ME. So according to your convoluted logic, since I have more BR kills than you I obviously know more about it than you. What's sad is that isn't all of my account I still have 2 more.

Ugh oh...apparently my opinion is worth more than yours...

- And we don't want to hear the, i don't use that account, but have many other accounts that i use, BS.

Again, I can have Achilles, Recon, Leche, Foman, TGP, or EvilCam verify that all of those accounts do in fact belong to me. I've played in their parties on those gametags in the past.

Also, please explain:
How is inconsistency in the BR spread a good thing for an accurate weapon, for competitive play?
How is dropped BR bullets (you hit your opponent, but it doesn't register) a good thing?


The Battle Rifle isn't solely reserved for competitive play. Having a BR spread makes the weapon balanced compared to the others, just like having an AR spread makes it balanced. And as Gzalzi already pointed out dropped BR bullets deals more with netcode than the weapon itself. Plus, most of the people who have constantly complained about "dropped bullets" have been shown to have HORRIBLE connection/host records.

Oh, and one more thing... stop trying to come across as articulate, because you're just making an ass of yourself.

~M.K. ;)


Actually, I don't see it that way and quite honestly this is how I talk all the time. I'm not trying to come "across" as articulate; I don't have to. And in all actuality the person who is making an ass out of themselves is you. You think that people can't comment on the BR if they don't met some random criteria. Well, too bad for you that I more than met your criteria so that means my opinion is obviously worth more than yours. Thank you come again. And next time you *try* to reply to me don't waste my time with childish crap.

Grow a brain.

~B.B. ;)

Childish crap? That is rich, coming from someone who has to resort to personal attacks to back up his point. Grow up.

And why should any of us believe what you say about your stats, when you have no proof of it? The only quantifiable stats you have, is that you love the Assault rifle, and barely use the BR. And i have 10 other account, in where my grand total of the BR is 40,000 kills... i.e., leave the inflated, BS, non verifiable numbers alone. Plus your main, original account tells a lot more about how you play then second accounts.

How on earth does making an accurate rifle random equal balance? Having other "spray and pray" weapons random is not the same thing, because they are not accurate, and were never meant to be. The BR is supposed to be an accurate weapon, and when two experienced people are having a BR dual, and neither miss a shot, but one dies due to a few random bullets not hitting their target, how is this balanced? I'll never understand FUBAR logic from people like you.

And the BR bullet dropping is independent of connection. Why? Because it happens on LAN. So try and explain that away.

Before you feel the need to grace us with your ignorant advice, try to stick to the facts, and perhaps not feeling the need to attack me personally.

~M.K. lol!

[Edited on 07.05.2008 8:34 PM PDT]

  • 07.05.2008 8:22 PM PDT