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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: TheFaze

1. If it wouldn't make a difference, don't you think Bungie would give it to us? Lowering the spread would make a difference because it would make it that much less random.


No, because it's a waste of time especially to people who don't understand the thing they are suggesting. Lowering the numerical spread mathematics would not reduce perceived randomness. Plain and simple. You are WRONG.

2. Wow. How often do you see people 4 shotting every shot? Honestly. This is a prime example why this argument is so stupid. The BR can be easily taken out by a variety of weapons if you know how to use them.

Good, that's the way it should be. The BR should be easily taken out by a variety of weapons if you know how to use them. Just like all the other weapons in H3 can easily be taken out or countered if you use other weaponry effectively.

3. You can't dual wield ARs because just think of the overpowered-ness of that..honestly. And there is a BIG difference between 3 shot burst and 60 shot burst. This argument is simply far fetched.

Yep, dual ARs would be over-powering. That wasn't the point. The Assault Rifle, is just that a rifle. A different type of rifle than the Battle Rifle, but one none the less. You are still trying to make a realism argument by comparing a 3-shot burst to a full-automatic weapon. You cannot make this argument as I've told you countless time.

4. Again, this is why you cannot use realism as an example for Halo.

And yet you continue to do so.

~B.B.

1. I still don't understand how lowering the spread values/using a spread ring pattern would not REDUCE the randomness..but ok.

2. Not arguing that because that is the way it should be..

3. You may have me here. I just can't think of anything to use fight the AR argument so I will take the easy route and say this is a BR thread. :D

4. How am I continuing to implement realism into my arguments? Im getting quite confused. Where is Atomic when you need to tag out for a bit!

  • 07.09.2008 1:23 PM PDT
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by the way, it shows you were online yesterday.

  • 07.09.2008 1:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: cheneysdick
whatever, you go back and forth saying the BR sucks to the br is the best weapon in the game. im sorry that you never got a 50 and are upset so you get in arguments on bungie.net. there are no doubts in my mind that ill beat you you're a brig with noob bars. i couldnt care less about you or your thoughts so stop starting arguments and then contradicting yourself

Typical Bungie.net kid...Rank means nothing. When did I say the BR sucks? I said it had no competition except for the Carbine, which is more useless than the BR at long range...

EDIT: Oh you caught me, my first games in a week last night. I should have totally not said anything cause I am totally on top of my game after not playing for a week+. /sarcasm


[Edited on 07.09.2008 1:28 PM PDT]

  • 07.09.2008 1:26 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: TheFaze
1. I still don't understand how lowering the spread values/using a spread ring pattern would not REDUCE the randomness..but ok.


One more time...from the top. The BR spread is listed as a mathematic value such as .1 for simplicity. This is what is called a "scalar value". Meaning that it only indicates the amount of deviation and not the direction of deviation. It is the opposite of a "vector value" which gives amount of deviation and direction of deviation. For example, if the 1st bullet in the BR burst fire has a .1 deviation it can move in a .1 "ring" away from the center of the BR reticule. This means that at any time the bullet can be fired at any of those locations. Lowering that value to .075 would make little difference because it still could "spread" to the right portion of that ring instead of the left side making you miss if your opponent is strafing. This idea is exasperated
when moving further away because the head of your opponent becomes "smaller". The difference in a .1 to a .075 would be almost none existent to people wanting the BR to be "more reliable" at greater distances. Bungie would have to make the bullet spread have the same direction of deviation each time for anything to really be accomplished. And I very much doubt they are going to do that because then it would be pointless to have a BR spread.

Hopefully that explains it a little better. I've had some suggestions about drawing up a diagram in order to help out. I might do that later if I have the chance.

~B.B.

  • 07.09.2008 1:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: TheFaze
1. I still don't understand how lowering the spread values/using a spread ring pattern would not REDUCE the randomness..but ok.


One more time...from the top. The BR spread is listed as a mathematic value such as .1 for simplicity. This is what is called a "scalar value". Meaning that it only indicates the amount of deviation and not the direction of deviation. It is the opposite of a "vector value" which gives amount of deviation and direction of deviation. For example, if the 1st bullet in the BR burst fire has a .1 deviation it can move in a .1 "ring" away from the center of the BR reticule. This means that at any time the bullet can be fired at any of those locations. Lowering that value to .075 would make little difference because it still could "spread" to the right portion of that ring instead of the left side making you miss if your opponent is strafing. This idea is exasperated
when moving further away because the head of your opponent becomes "smaller". The difference in a .1 to a .075 would be almost none existent to people wanting the BR to be "more reliable" at greater distances. Bungie would have to make the bullet spread have the same direction of deviation each time for anything to really be accomplished. And I very much doubt they are going to do that because then it would be pointless to have a BR spread.

Hopefully that explains it a little better. I've had some suggestions about drawing up a diagram in order to help out. I might do that later if I have the chance.

~B.B.

This is what I am talking about, I may be mis-informed though. The current system is like this
This is what I think I want it to look like, maybe even tighter.
note: pictures taken from MLG forums. originally posted by "Something."

[Edited on 07.09.2008 1:44 PM PDT]

  • 07.09.2008 1:43 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: TheFaze
This is what I am talking about, I may be mis-informed though. The current system is like this
This is what I think I want it to look like, maybe even tighter.
note: pictures taken from MLG forums. originally posted by "Something."


Ugh, those are pretty poorly done but I'll try to explain according to what they are showing. The first diagram is completely wrong. It should have "rings" of the range of variance. On diagram 1, the first reticule should have a ring around it that represents the values of 0.0 to 0.15. On diagram 1 second reticule it should have a ring around it that represents the values of 0.0 to 0.26. On diagram 1, the third reticule should have a ring that represents the values of 0.0 to 0.38. Diagram 1 fails because it only shows the deviation in a parallel fashion to the center of the reticule. It is my understanding that the BR bullet can deviation in a full 360 degrees from the center of the reticule. Tightening the spread would only make those "rings" slightly smaller however it would still allow for "perceived randomness" when the BR is operated outside of it's intended range. That coupled with the lack of being a "hitscan" weapon would change very little.

~B.B.

  • 07.09.2008 2:22 PM PDT
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A couple of things, first of all, Bungie is a multi-million dollar corporation fully capable of 'defending' it's actions, it does not need defenders championing for their crusade of making games with an extremely small skill gap.
I'll get to the BR in a moment, but first let's talk about the skill gap.

A skill gap is the seperation of noob and pro players in their ability to play a game. An excellent and competetive game has a wide as possible skill gap. Anything that's part of the game that helps someone who is better beat someone who is not as good is wanted. Not like, you've won 300 times your guns do more damage, but if someone is playing every situation more accurately and strafing better, for example, then they should win. Take a quake style arena deathmatch game for example. In an arena fps you have many more considerations than halo, you have your aim skill, your skill with leading rockets factors in there, movement skill(trick movement, like defrag), map control, player awareness, and spawn fragging. The amount of raw skill to be a competetive player could take years to achieve. Through the course of a match, the better player will win easily. In halo 3 there are very few required skills, mainly just mild shooting skill and 2-3 weapon several minute respawn timer map control.
The skill gap is so large for quake 4 that when fatal1ty, the highest paid professional gamer in the world, played the editorial staff of pc gamer that he went 170+ frags, 1 death with 6 players vs 1. They are not bad gamers, they're not noobs, the game has a large skill gap and fatal1ty is the best at it. Now let's say we matched up players in halo 3, some 40's, 45's and pitted them against any of the top slayers from the MLG circuit, the top slayers would die frequently, not because of lack of skill but because of the skill gap. Mostly in halo 3 the raw aim skill is incredibly nerfed because of magnetism, I personally enjoy playing console games because of the reduction in aim skill because of the controller vs a mouse. But with magnetism there is an easily obtained 'max' to aim skill with most weapons besides the sniper. The pros don't have perfect br's, but it's damn close. So one of the underlying problems with halo is the relative ceiling on aim skill and the lack of a skill gap.

So how does a skill gap and aim ceiling affect halo 3's BR? It's rather simple, at a decent level of play from two players, the outcome of many situations is going to be decided by the spread. Some people will say, the better player will use the spread more, that is not possible. Due to the nature of the spread, unlike a counterstrike style spread pattern that as a player you can adjust for, the BR spread is completely random. So the real problem is that on a BR to BR battle, the outcome can be decided solely based on a random number. Addditionally because the spread is not constant, the desired effect of reducing the ability of a BR player to kill an AR player before they find cover will sometimes work, and sometimes not, however that will not be decided on skill but by luck.

If you look at games with large skill gaps, you'll see dedicated followings and increased competetive league play. Take counterstrike for example, or check out any of the games on the www.caleague.com website to see how many people play them competetively. Halo games have so far had one league from the MLG and it's a very small league compared to the million-ish Counterstrike players who have competeted in CAL. There's a reason people watch sports, competetion in sports in almost entirely in the hands of the players on the field, wind and such may factor in, but you can account for it. So the real problem with the BR is the inability to account for the random aspects as a better player.

So say what you will about shotguns and AR's and such, but if you have any decent amount of intelligence you can see why those guns make for a very anti-competetive game. With the amount of magnetism on both of them, and the complete randomness of their shots, the 'ceiling' on shooting skill with them is almost nothing, if you run at someone with an AR and they run at you with an AR and you're both not retarded, whoever wins(If it's not a tie beatdown) will be decided on sheer chance. If two players run at you with an AR and you have just about any weapon in the game except for rockets, you will almost certainly die, no matter how good you are or to a certain degree, the skill of the players against you. That IS a problem, skill should be a factor in any game you play on an xbox, or you might as well start rolling dice or watch TV for all your input will matter.

In closing, a random spread on the BR helps further shorten the gap between experienced players and new players, further weakening the game for competetive or 'fun' play. There are dozens of factors that reduce the skill gap, however this one is mainly important for circuit play and is so easily fixed without destroying AR 'game balance' that I can see no reason not to change it besides bullheadedness. The spread penalizes good players the most, and unskilled players will not notice the changes whatsoever. So why not change it?

  • 07.09.2008 2:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: XxXLew420XxX
A couple of things, first of all, Bungie is a multi-million dollar corporation fully capable of 'defending' it's actions, it does not need defenders championing for their crusade of making games with an extremely small skill gap.
I'll get to the BR in a moment, but first let's talk about the skill gap.

A skill gap is the seperation of noob and pro players in their ability to play a game. An excellent and competetive game has a wide as possible skill gap. Anything that's part of the game that helps someone who is better beat someone who is not as good is wanted. Not like, you've won 300 times your guns do more damage, but if someone is playing every situation more accurately and strafing better, for example, then they should win. Take a quake style arena deathmatch game for example. In an arena fps you have many more considerations than halo, you have your aim skill, your skill with leading rockets factors in there, movement skill(trick movement, like defrag), map control, player awareness, and spawn fragging. The amount of raw skill to be a competetive player could take years to achieve. Through the course of a match, the better player will win easily. In halo 3 there are very few required skills, mainly just mild shooting skill and 2-3 weapon several minute respawn timer map control.
The skill gap is so large for quake 4 that when fatal1ty, the highest paid professional gamer in the world, played the editorial staff of pc gamer that he went 170+ frags, 1 death with 6 players vs 1. They are not bad gamers, they're not noobs, the game has a large skill gap and fatal1ty is the best at it. Now let's say we matched up players in halo 3, some 40's, 45's and pitted them against any of the top slayers from the MLG circuit, the top slayers would die frequently, not because of lack of skill but because of the skill gap. Mostly in halo 3 the raw aim skill is incredibly nerfed because of magnetism, I personally enjoy playing console games because of the reduction in aim skill because of the controller vs a mouse. But with magnetism there is an easily obtained 'max' to aim skill with most weapons besides the sniper. The pros don't have perfect br's, but it's damn close. So one of the underlying problems with halo is the relative ceiling on aim skill and the lack of a skill gap.

So how does a skill gap and aim ceiling affect halo 3's BR? It's rather simple, at a decent level of play from two players, the outcome of many situations is going to be decided by the spread. Some people will say, the better player will use the spread more, that is not possible. Due to the nature of the spread, unlike a counterstrike style spread pattern that as a player you can adjust for, the BR spread is completely random. So the real problem is that on a BR to BR battle, the outcome can be decided solely based on a random number. Addditionally because the spread is not constant, the desired effect of reducing the ability of a BR player to kill an AR player before they find cover will sometimes work, and sometimes not, however that will not be decided on skill but by luck.

If you look at games with large skill gaps, you'll see dedicated followings and increased competetive league play. Take counterstrike for example, or check out any of the games on the www.caleague.com website to see how many people play them competetively. Halo games have so far had one league from the MLG and it's a very small league compared to the million-ish Counterstrike players who have competeted in CAL. There's a reason people watch sports, competetion in sports in almost entirely in the hands of the players on the field, wind and such may factor in, but you can account for it. So the real problem with the BR is the inability to account for the random aspects as a better player.

So say what you will about shotguns and AR's and such, but if you have any decent amount of intelligence you can see why those guns make for a very anti-competetive game. With the amount of magnetism on both of them, and the complete randomness of their shots, the 'ceiling' on shooting skill with them is almost nothing, if you run at someone with an AR and they run at you with an AR and you're both not retarded, whoever wins(If it's not a tie beatdown) will be decided on sheer chance. If two players run at you with an AR and you have just about any weapon in the game except for rockets, you will almost certainly die, no matter how good you are or to a certain degree, the skill of the players against you. That IS a problem, skill should be a factor in any game you play on an xbox, or you might as well start rolling dice or watch TV for all your input will matter.

In closing, a random spread on the BR helps further shorten the gap between experienced players and new players, further weakening the game for competetive or 'fun' play. There are dozens of factors that reduce the skill gap, however this one is mainly important for circuit play and is so easily fixed without destroying AR 'game balance' that I can see no reason not to change it besides bullheadedness. The spread penalizes good players the most, and unskilled players will not notice the changes whatsoever. So why not change it?

Oh my God...Get out of my brain. The only thing that confused me was the last part...but I COMPLETELY agree with the rest of it. And having played CAL for quite a while(CoD2 Cal im-m, CoD4) I totally see where you are coming from. So..would you like to take my place in this argument for a while? :D

  • 07.09.2008 2:34 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Yes, and typically competitive-focused console games fail. Look at Shadowrun and FASA. Failed soooo hard the company went bankrupt. It's a fun game (except for the fact that it doesn't offer Legacy controls) but it certainly doesn't appeal to a wide range of people. Halo 3 was more designed to appeal to a wide amount of people while still allowing for customization for the various groups in the community. The so-called "competitive" community is a rather SMALL percentage of the overall Halo community. Designing a game that focuses more on their desires would be like focusing on a group that plays Rocket Race all day. It doesn't make for good gameplay and it certainly doesn't make good business sense.

You, just like Faze and many of the other BR supporters only recognize a limited definition of "skill". You feel that "skill" is determined by how accurately you can fire a weapon. If you are using the Sniper Rifle in H3 (arguably one of the more "skillful" weapons) and someone kills you with an AR, it doesn't make them less skilled than you are. It means they had more skill in the "better suited in that scenario" department. In that situation you unskillfully left yourself open to attack in a situation where your weapon is at a disadvantage.

You might see Halo 3 as a game that doesn't cater or focus on competition but that's probably because it doesn't intend to. Saying someone is less "skilled" than you because he killed you with a weapon that requires less aiming precision is quite possibly the worst logic I've seen used in this thread. If you're really a better player than them, how would they have killed you? You might be the better player in regards to aiming precision but that doesn't necessarily mean you're the better player.

Games that focus too much on a niche group is bad design. That is quite evident with the bankruptcy of FASA.

~B.B.

  • 07.09.2008 2:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Yes, and typically competitive-focused console games fail. Look at Shadowrun and FASA. Failed soooo hard the company went bankrupt. It's a fun game (except for the fact that it doesn't offer Legacy controls) but it certainly doesn't appeal to a wide range of people. Halo 3 was more designed to appeal to a wide amount of people while still allowing for customization for the various groups in the community. The so-called "competitive" community is a rather SMALL percentage of the overall Halo community. Designing a game that focuses more on their desires would be like focusing on a group that plays Rocket Race all day. It doesn't make for good gameplay and it certainly doesn't make good business sense.

You, just like Faze and many of the other BR supporters only recognize a limited definition of "skill". You feel that "skill" is determined by how accurately you can fire a weapon. If you are using the Sniper Rifle in H3 (arguably one of the more "skillful" weapons) and someone kills you with an AR, it doesn't make them less skilled than you are. It means they had more skill in the "better suited in that scenario" department. In that situation you unskillfully left yourself open to attack in a situation where your weapon is at a disadvantage.

You might see Halo 3 as a game that doesn't cater or focus on competition but that's probably because it doesn't intend to. Saying someone is less "skilled" than you because he killed you with a weapon that requires less aiming precision is quite possibly the worst logic I've seen used in this thread. If you're really a better player than them, how would they have killed you? You might be the better player in regards to aiming precision but that doesn't necessarily mean you're the better player.

Games that focus too much on a niche group is bad design. That is quite evident with the bankruptcy of FASA.

~B.B.

This is the problem with the generic console gamer. I am just going to leave it at that and not even bother trying to explain it further, because quite frankly I cannot explain it any better than him.

  • 07.09.2008 3:00 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: TheFaze

This is the problem with the generic console gamer. I am just going to leave it at that and not even bother trying to explain it further, because quite frankly I cannot explain it any better than him.


Yeah, except I'm not a "generic console gamer". I played UT99 and Quake competitively locally (as in my state) when I was in high school. I even have pictures! I also understand that the video game business has change in the past decade and making games that primarily appeal to a limited audience is bad design.

If your best argument against the inclusion of the BR-spread in H3 is that it doesn't adhere to your preconceived and heavily biased ideal of what a FPS *should* be then I'd suggest not posting. Subjective and opinionated posts are all fine and good but at the end of the day they are pointless.

~B.B.

  • 07.09.2008 3:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: TheFaze

This is the problem with the generic console gamer. I am just going to leave it at that and not even bother trying to explain it further, because quite frankly I cannot explain it any better than him.


Yeah, except I'm not a "generic console gamer". I played UT99 and Quake competitively locally (as in my state) when I was in high school. I even have pictures! I also understand that the video game business has change in the past decade and making games that primarily appeal to a limited audience is bad design.

If your best argument against the inclusion of the BR-spread in H3 is that it doesn't adhere to your preconceived and heavily biased ideal of what a FPS *should* be then I'd suggest not posting. Subjective and opinionated posts are all fine and good but at the end of the day they are pointless.

~B.B.

In the end isn't the idea of what a FPS *should* be always going to be biased and opinionated?

  • 07.09.2008 3:12 PM PDT
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Why is giving a game the capability to be played competetively appealing to a limited audience? Sports is the best example of why you're wrong. If 6 year old kids could beat NBA players at basketball, who would watch it?

If your best argument against the inclusion of the BR-spread in H3 is that it doesn't adhere to your preconceived and heavily biased ideal of what a FPS *should* be then I'd suggest not posting. Subjective and opinionated posts are all fine and good but at the end of the day they are pointless.

heavily biased ideal of an FPS where if you play better than your opponents you win? WHAT A CRAZY CONCEPT?!?!?

  • 07.09.2008 3:15 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: TheFaze
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: TheFaze

This is the problem with the generic console gamer. I am just going to leave it at that and not even bother trying to explain it further, because quite frankly I cannot explain it any better than him.


Yeah, except I'm not a "generic console gamer". I played UT99 and Quake competitively locally (as in my state) when I was in high school. I even have pictures! I also understand that the video game business has change in the past decade and making games that primarily appeal to a limited audience is bad design.

If your best argument against the inclusion of the BR-spread in H3 is that it doesn't adhere to your preconceived and heavily biased ideal of what a FPS *should* be then I'd suggest not posting. Subjective and opinionated posts are all fine and good but at the end of the day they are pointless.

~B.B.

In the end isn't the idea of what a FPS *should* be always going to be biased and opinionated?


Yesss....

Which is why if that is your best argument against the BR spread then you might reconsider posting. I love opinions, but I don't try to use them as the basis of a conversation/debate/argument. Saying you like the BR-spread or you dislike the BR spread doesn't really make much difference. You're more than welcome to voice your opinion so I'm not saying to the contrary but if you think that is adding anything to the discussion then you're wrong.

I'm heading home from the office; I'll pick this up tomorrow. Have a nice one.

~B.B.

  • 07.09.2008 3:20 PM PDT
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I still don't understand why making a game where the better player wins is bad. Why thinking you should make something where the better player wins is opinionated and heavily biased.

  • 07.09.2008 3:27 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

I think a skill gap and competitiveness is a good thing. It's just a shame today's world seems to think this causes bad self-esteem, since people think winning is everything and not everyone wins. What's alarming is the fact that I've heard schools taking away competition because of this reason, such as dodge ball and an attempt to eleminate marching band contests. It's all a bunch of bologne if you ask me. I mean how are people gonna be able to strive for their best without any motivation to win. Competition IS a good thing, and a skill gap helps this.

Getting back onto the BR...Having the BR where it contains a certain range where randomness creates a fluctuation between a 4-shot and a 5-shot, etc., creates an event where one loses or wins based on how tight the spread is during a BR battle. Thus, adding a random element into the competition. Might as well just play Yatzee.

[Edited on 07.09.2008 3:37 PM PDT]

  • 07.09.2008 3:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: TheFaze
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: TheFaze

This is the problem with the generic console gamer. I am just going to leave it at that and not even bother trying to explain it further, because quite frankly I cannot explain it any better than him.


Yeah, except I'm not a "generic console gamer". I played UT99 and Quake competitively locally (as in my state) when I was in high school. I even have pictures! I also understand that the video game business has change in the past decade and making games that primarily appeal to a limited audience is bad design.

If your best argument against the inclusion of the BR-spread in H3 is that it doesn't adhere to your preconceived and heavily biased ideal of what a FPS *should* be then I'd suggest not posting. Subjective and opinionated posts are all fine and good but at the end of the day they are pointless.

~B.B.

In the end isn't the idea of what a FPS *should* be always going to be biased and opinionated?


Yesss....

Which is why if that is your best argument against the BR spread then you might reconsider posting. I love opinions, but I don't try to use them as the basis of a conversation/debate/argument. Saying you like the BR-spread or you dislike the BR spread doesn't really make much difference. You're more than welcome to voice your opinion so I'm not saying to the contrary but if you think that is adding anything to the discussion then you're wrong.

I'm heading home from the office; I'll pick this up tomorrow. Have a nice one.

~B.B.

I still don't see how saying less random = more skill is an opinion. Seems to me like that is simple logic?

  • 07.09.2008 3:47 PM PDT
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R.I.P. DeathPimp. Never Ending Respect.

"Posted by: Kickimanjaro
I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."

Man, that gun, the Battle Rifle,

it sure caused a Big Ruccas.

some people wish they has Bungies Recon

Too bad for those Benevolent Ravens!

  • 07.09.2008 3:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: dmg04
Man, that gun, the Battle Rifle,

it sure caused a Big Ruccas.

some people wish they has Bungies Recon

Too bad for those Benevolent Ravens!

What?

  • 07.09.2008 3:50 PM PDT

The BR somewhat appears as one of the most effective and most used weapons in the game. Having unbelieveable accuracy at mid-long range the weapon is almost usable anywhere. It also comes effective at close range if you know how to use it and it does need a significant amount of skill to pursuit the full operation and success.

Nothing needs to be changed on the Br. It appears fine and satisfactory the way it is.

  • 07.09.2008 3:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: SCOTTY OWNS U
For People Whining:

Ok, if you people actually read the entire Weekly Update you would Realize that there is a good reason for Bungie not taking your suggestions and changing back the BR. In Halo 2 the Battle Riffle Would beat out every weapon, because it is good at close range, medium range
and long range. In halo 3 the design team wanted it to be fair, because it was realized in Halo 2 that it is too good. So for halo 3 they wanted things more balanced (in my opinion). So they Gave it less power at long and short range, making it the still the best medium range weapon (my opinion).

This is What I think you should do:

For all of the people that whining they probably want the Halo 2 BR back. And those people who are whining about wanting the Halo 2 BR had to get used to the Halo 2 BR by Playing Halo 2? And Halo 2 and Halo 3 are two Different Games within the same series. You if you are Whining 7bout the BR it is your fault for switching to a new game. If you want the halo 2 BR than play halo 2. It is that simple. And Different games are meant to be different, so they will have differences, the changes in the Battle Riffle are just one of the many changes between the games in the Halo Series. And like any other new game you start playing, you aren't going to be the best at it when you start, so you just have to play Halo 3 with the Battle Riffle at Medium Range the way it is meant to be used in HALO 3, not the way it was used in halo 2. Also like in any other new game you start to play, you have to play and practice to get good at it. The same thing goes for the BR. So just get used to it and practice with it at medium range the way it it said the be used at.

Shorter Version for the People that Still Don't Understand:

The people whining got used to the halo 2 br when they played halo 2 so just get used to the halo 3 br now that you know how to use it. You guys are practically blaming Bungie for making a weapon in the game you play.

Another Argument

They people whining / complaining usually claim to be MLG. If they are MLG they should be able to get a kill with almost any weapon nonetheless. So they should also be able to get a kill with the halo 3 BR. So you are just another poser if you claim to be MLG and are still whining about the halo 3 BR because you cant get a kill with it even though you claim to be MLG.

Another Argument:

Most of the people that also whine about wanting the Halo 2 BR back also say "Bungie Never Takes Suggestions?" Haven't anybody read the Code of Conduct : You have no rights, Play nice. Theres one point of this. But Bungie actually does take suggestions such as. The melee glitch, Griffball Double Exp Weekends, Team Snipers Double Exp Weekends, Bungie.Net Avatars, Bungie.net User Skins, Bungie.net Themes. And many more things that Bungie gets from suggestions.. You guys are too busy wanting an "Ulimate Weapon". Think about that... Now that you know the facts behind the Halo 2 Br you know it is good at any range making it unbeatable. Think of Bungie's Point of View, Somebody is saying. "Can we have the Halo 2 Br back so we can an unbeatable weapon??" Think about it. Now don't tell me that it sounds a little stupid. And Yes They do take suggestions.

Posted by: Timtaztix
I don't want the BR to be accurate I want it to be consistent. Sometimes it shoots differently than an opponent's, and this makes luck a factor. Halo 3 should be about skill, not luck. Don't flame me until you've read everything.

Bungie's excuse for not "fixing" the BR is that they don't want the BR to become the all-powerful Godly weapon that it was in Halo 2.

The BR in Halo 2 was Godly because:
-Button combos
-Tight spread
-The BR was a hitscan weapon
-The BR was extremely consistent

In Halo 3, there are no button combos, there is a huge spread, it is inconsistent, and it is not a hitscan weapon. Obviously, the BR is a lot less effective now than it was in Halo 2.

Bungie apparently thinks that we request the BR to be returned to its former state from Halo 2. No Bungie, not at all. You have misunderstood what the main problem is.

The BR is ridiculously inconsistent

Leave the spread as is, just take away the random tendencies! The problem is that sometimes my BR has an accurate burst, and sometimes it has an inaccurate burst. What if I'm in a 1-on-1 BR fight, and my BR shoots randomly wider and his shoots randomly tighter. My opponent will win the fight not because of his aiming skills, but because his shot more accurately than mine. Even though my reticule was on his head, and his was on mine, I lose the fight because of the random tendencies.

So, in conclusion, I suggest that Bungie removes the random tendencies of the BR's burst. This means that:

-It will still have a wide spread
-It will still not be a hitscan weapon (You must still lead shots)
-Still no button combos
-Consistent! This is the only change...making the burst consistent. This way, the only advantage one player will have over another is skill. Luck should not be a factor in a competitive game.

This way the BR is still not accurate enough to snipe, and not accurate enough to guarantee a perfect 4-shot every time...but it will remain this way for everyone and not just the lucky will win.

If everyone's BR performs the same, every time, even if the spread isn't perfect, it is a balanced weapon. Right now the winner of a BR fight depends on lucky spread, and I want the winner to rely on skill. Not luck.

Post here if you agree with me, and be mature about it. No flaming unless you've read the entire post.


^^^^^

Argument:

In this statement the OP has all of the Halo 2 facts completely correct. But think about it, Yes, it is was completely consistent. And if that is what you are asking for in halo 3 then it would still be the Ultimate weapon. Think about it. What other weapon is completely consistent in Halo 3 Besides the Spartan Laser and Sniper Riffle (Said by Luke)? AR Bullets Fly everywhere. Needlers fly off anywhere, Rockets can be shot off by an explosion, Spikers don't lock on, Shotguns shoot multiple bullets. I really cannot think of another weapon that is completely consistent in hitting all of its shots. I also Think you may be exaggerating when you say ridiculously because if I am correct on my math and I read the many math equations correctly by JonnyOthan then only one one the 3 bullets is going to be inaccurate out of the three. You also talk about a 1 vs 1 BR duel. Think about this situation too. Once again if I am correct on reading the math equations then one out of the three bullets will not hit. So if you think about that there is a 66.7% (Rounded) change that it will be accurate and a 34.3% chance that one bullet out of the 3 will miss. That is not even a 50% chance! Which brings me to the Final facts of this argument that Only two weapons (that I'm 100% sure on) are 100% accurate. So why should the BR? This question brings us the Real Life Sniper vs the Real Life Battle Riffle. In Real life not every BR weapon is going to hit the exact target. A real life Sniper bullet will hit the exact target. So that equation is correct. So what is so what is so bad about a 34.3% chance of having 1 bullet miss when almost every other weapon will do the same or worse. The last thing in this argument, in a 1 on 1 br duel you will most likley to have the same outcome for both players.

(I know I probably got some facts wrong in there but C'mon you gotta admit that is had to argue against!)


Please Don't spam me telling me I don't know what I'm saying.

This is just my opinion on you should look at the BR changes from Halo 2 to Halo 3.


AND. That was just for the People WHINING. Honestly I like the Halo 3 BR better tahn the H2 one.

I know others have my same opinion, My top posts were for Whiners not people with my opinion.



What do you think of my opinion?

And if I have any facts wrong please tell me and I shall fix.

Discuss nicley...


READ MY ENTIRE POST, I'm not complaining.

I am not complaining, I am telling people that do complain how to deal with it and some facts and opinions behind it.


Totally.

  • 07.09.2008 4:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag: iFazey
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I am done with this thread. If you agree or not, msg me on aim[gcthefazegc], xfire[thefaze], or just pm me. pz~

  • 07.09.2008 4:11 PM PDT
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  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

wow, did someone really try to say more random = more skilled , go gett runover

  • 07.09.2008 4:45 PM PDT

Pie is awesome. You are not. Bow down to pie and bask in its glory.

BR needs moar desu

  • 07.09.2008 5:02 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

I tried reading some arguments in here, and I think I'm dumber for it.

Never again.

  • 07.09.2008 6:15 PM PDT