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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
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Sikon - If you try to run, you'll only die tired.

br spread is horrible if your like 50 feet away it takes like 12 shots even if they are all in head because only 1 bullet hits them. In halo 2 it would be 4 shot ftw! they messed it up. now any noob with an ar can kill a pro with a bar if they are close enough.

  • 07.09.2008 6:24 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: SIK0N
br spread is horrible if your like 50 feet away it takes like 12 shots even if they are all in head because only 1 bullet hits them. In halo 2 it would be 4 shot ftw! they messed it up. now any noob with an ar can kill a pro with a bar if they are close enough.

You're doing it wrong. More shots hit when you aim for the chest, and as long as their shields are up it does the same amount of damage.

I cannot believe how many of you haven't figured this out yet when it was established back in October that that is the way to BR most effectively--chest, then head when their shields are down.

  • 07.09.2008 6:30 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Actually, if you are not a half-retarded circus monkey using the AR, chances are you don't do the whole "spray and pray" crap that you're sooo biased about. Typically I'll stay outside of range because I know most other people only hold RT so I'll wait till their clip runs empty while firing bursts into them. Anyone who is moderately skillful (and I know you hate hearing that) with the Assault Rifle rarely if ever uses it in combination with a melee. It's far too risky because of the possibility of a "double-melee" occurring. If you really think that all people use the AR in the whole "hold RT while running at opponent then melee" mindset you're so ignorant, biased, and naive that I'm surprised you haven't swallowed your tongue and choked to death.

But those "half-retarded circus monkeys" as you say, do just that. And the sad thing is, it still kills you when you have spawned with your back turned against them. They def deserved that skillful kill, don't they? They cannot do just that with a BR. And if that concept fails you, then you might want to stick a ruler down your throat to stop your tongue form choking you to death.

Congrats on buying into "pros" opinions. Very fanboish of you. I can understand that people feel that the M6D was the "most skillful" weapon in the series. I can also fully understand why the M6D was the most "broken" weapon in regards to weapons balance. They aren't dichotomous. I also found the M6D to be rather cheap because you could easily just hit a person with a couple shots (with that HUGE reticule) and then melee to kill them. I also love how you're insinuating that I didn't play HCE or HCE competitively. I only went to 1 HCE LAN competition while having LANs at my house every week for a year and a half. I also regularly played HCE on XBC. I also participated in several HCE PC LAN competitions during my years in undergrad. I've played the game enough....
I don't buy into what any one has to say. I just agree with what the top pros say. And what they say makes a hella lot more common sense then what you are prescribing to. Plus, they have much more experience then you or I do. So what they say holds more weight. Yes, i'm sorry, but i believe that experience is worth more then observation.

Funny how I did know that. I've mentioned that exact fact several times during this thread. Apparently MLG doesn't have a problem with bullet spread because they allow a weapon (Mauler) which has it in their competitions with no qualms about it. Sounds to me that they are just trying to be selective about which weapons they complain about because they don't like it when Bungie balances "their" weapon.
You stated that MLG took out the mauler, shotgun, AR and other weapons because when they increased weapon damage to 110%, for the BR, it made these other weapons too powerful, so they had to get rid of them. Of which is a very naive, and assumed conclusion.

[Edited on 07.09.2008 7:16 PM PDT]

  • 07.09.2008 6:50 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Yes, and typically competitive-focused console games fail. Look at Shadowrun and FASA. Failed soooo hard the company went bankrupt. It's a fun game (except for the fact that it doesn't offer Legacy controls) but it certainly doesn't appeal to a wide range of people. Halo 3 was more designed to appeal to a wide amount of people while still allowing for customization for the various groups in the community. The so-called "competitive" community is a rather SMALL percentage of the overall Halo community. Designing a game that focuses more on their desires would be like focusing on a group that plays Rocket Race all day. It doesn't make for good gameplay and it certainly doesn't make good business sense.

You, just like Faze and many of the other BR supporters only recognize a limited definition of "skill". You feel that "skill" is determined by how accurately you can fire a weapon. If you are using the Sniper Rifle in H3 (arguably one of the more "skillful" weapons) and someone kills you with an AR, it doesn't make them less skilled than you are. It means they had more skill in the "better suited in that scenario" department. In that situation you unskillfully left yourself open to attack in a situation where your weapon is at a disadvantage.

You might see Halo 3 as a game that doesn't cater or focus on competition but that's probably because it doesn't intend to. Saying someone is less "skilled" than you because he killed you with a weapon that requires less aiming precision is quite possibly the worst logic I've seen used in this thread. If you're really a better player than them, how would they have killed you? You might be the better player in regards to aiming precision but that doesn't necessarily mean you're the better player.

Games that focus too much on a niche group is bad design. That is quite evident with the bankruptcy of FASA.

~B.B.

You are being very naive and assuming wayyy too much as to why FASA studios went under. You blame it solely on shadowrun, and then go on to assume the reason why shadowrun didn't do so well, was because it was designed solely for competitive, niche play (of which itself is a gross assumption). So much assuming, and fallacy statements that my head is about to burst.

First of all MS had a lot to do with FASA going under. Second, there is many a reason that shadowrun didn't appeal to more people. First and for most was a lot of it was unfinished, and the most damning, the graphics were not all that good.

Your logic cannot explain away a game called Halo:CE. Halo 1 was the most competitive console shooter available, much more then Halo 2 or 3. And yet it somehow appealed to both sides, the hardcore competitive crowd AND the non competitive majority. Halo 1 did everything but fail, and was the catalyst for the huge sales of Halo 2, and arguably much of Halo 3.




[Edited on 07.10.2008 3:32 AM PDT]

  • 07.09.2008 7:06 PM PDT
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honestly, if there is a spread its barely even notcible.... i dont have a problem with the br at all.I use it once in a while and go for the head i kill them in like 4 shots (pulls o fthe trigger).Its a good weapon that people need to learn how to use it.Plus there are lag maybe not on ur end and unregistered shots AND not just on the BR, i have a vid on youtube about 4 shots through the head with a Sniper and no kill.

  • 07.09.2008 7:45 PM PDT
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At the start of Halo 3 i felt the BR was super inconsistent in comparison with Halo 2's. But you realize that Bungie made the weapon more skill oriented ,instead of aiming at the head and pulling RT four times, its leading your shots and actually using shooting kills to out shoot your opponet. Now that im so used to using the BR its not a problem for me to get kills with it.

  • 07.09.2008 8:01 PM PDT
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yeah i think the br is just fine, people just cry because they keep getting out BRed by people who have got over the fact that halo2s BR was waaaay too accurate

  • 07.09.2008 8:01 PM PDT

I beat down a Scarab.

The BR is OK. But the Old BR was Better! If anyone wants the Old one back they should Submit a (Yes I do want it Changed Back) or a (No its fine) at the End of their Posts.
I Say give us back the Old accurate BR not this Shotgun with a scope.

  • 07.09.2008 8:45 PM PDT
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I agree with the last argument that only two weapons are consistent, we dont realize that the shotgun (for example) is not consistent because we use it a point blank range, whereas if the shots were being made mid-Medium, mid-Short range, there are plenty of bullets that dont even touch the opponent. True, we want a BR 2 BR fight to be won with skill, but your skill in aiming and pulling a trigger faster than your opponent does not make you capable of controlling the direction of one or any of the three bullets in one burst. Until your final argument that consistency needs to be changed I was with you 100%, the people who want it to be like the halo 2 BR arent good enough (putting it lightly), or are to knit-picky to handle the halo 3 BR. Besides if luck decides the winner of two players in a BR fight, making it a 50% chance for either, then it doesnt really matter much.

  • 07.09.2008 9:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: SCOTTY OWNS U
For People Whining:

Ok, if you people actually read the entire Weekly Update you would Realize that there is a good reason for Bungie not taking your suggestions and changing back the BR. In Halo 2 the Battle Riffle Would beat out every weapon, because it is good at close range, medium range
and long range. In halo 3 the design team wanted it to be fair, because it was realized in Halo 2 that it is too good. So for halo 3 they wanted things more balanced (in my opinion). So they Gave it less power at long and short range, making it the still the best medium range weapon (my opinion).

This is What I think you should do:

For all of the people that whining they probably want the Halo 2 BR back. And those people who are whining about wanting the Halo 2 BR had to get used to the Halo 2 BR by Playing Halo 2? And Halo 2 and Halo 3 are two Different Games within the same series. You if you are Whining 7bout the BR it is your fault for switching to a new game. If you want the halo 2 BR than play halo 2. It is that simple. And Different games are meant to be different, so they will have differences, the changes in the Battle Riffle are just one of the many changes between the games in the Halo Series. And like any other new game you start playing, you aren't going to be the best at it when you start, so you just have to play Halo 3 with the Battle Riffle at Medium Range the way it is meant to be used in HALO 3, not the way it was used in halo 2. Also like in any other new game you start to play, you have to play and practice to get good at it. The same thing goes for the BR. So just get used to it and practice with it at medium range the way it it said the be used at.

Shorter Version for the People that Still Don't Understand:

The people whining got used to the halo 2 br when they played halo 2 so just get used to the halo 3 br now that you know how to use it. You guys are practically blaming Bungie for making a weapon in the game you play.

Another Argument

They people whining / complaining usually claim to be MLG. If they are MLG they should be able to get a kill with almost any weapon nonetheless. So they should also be able to get a kill with the halo 3 BR. So you are just another poser if you claim to be MLG and are still whining about the halo 3 BR because you cant get a kill with it even though you claim to be MLG.

Another Argument:

Most of the people that also whine about wanting the Halo 2 BR back also say "Bungie Never Takes Suggestions?" Haven't anybody read the Code of Conduct : You have no rights, Play nice. Theres one point of this. But Bungie actually does take suggestions such as. The melee glitch, Griffball Double Exp Weekends, Team Snipers Double Exp Weekends, Bungie.Net Avatars, Bungie.net User Skins, Bungie.net Themes. And many more things that Bungie gets from suggestions.. You guys are too busy wanting an "Ulimate Weapon". Think about that... Now that you know the facts behind the Halo 2 Br you know it is good at any range making it unbeatable. Think of Bungie's Point of View, Somebody is saying. "Can we have the Halo 2 Br back so we can an unbeatable weapon??" Think about it. Now don't tell me that it sounds a little stupid. And Yes They do take suggestions.

Posted by: Timtaztix
I don't want the BR to be accurate I want it to be consistent. Sometimes it shoots differently than an opponent's, and this makes luck a factor. Halo 3 should be about skill, not luck. Don't flame me until you've read everything.

Bungie's excuse for not "fixing" the BR is that they don't want the BR to become the all-powerful Godly weapon that it was in Halo 2.

The BR in Halo 2 was Godly because:
-Button combos
-Tight spread
-The BR was a hitscan weapon
-The BR was extremely consistent

In Halo 3, there are no button combos, there is a huge spread, it is inconsistent, and it is not a hitscan weapon. Obviously, the BR is a lot less effective now than it was in Halo 2.

Bungie apparently thinks that we request the BR to be returned to its former state from Halo 2. No Bungie, not at all. You have misunderstood what the main problem is.

The BR is ridiculously inconsistent

Leave the spread as is, just take away the random tendencies! The problem is that sometimes my BR has an accurate burst, and sometimes it has an inaccurate burst. What if I'm in a 1-on-1 BR fight, and my BR shoots randomly wider and his shoots randomly tighter. My opponent will win the fight not because of his aiming skills, but because his shot more accurately than mine. Even though my reticule was on his head, and his was on mine, I lose the fight because of the random tendencies.

So, in conclusion, I suggest that Bungie removes the random tendencies of the BR's burst. This means that:

-It will still have a wide spread
-It will still not be a hitscan weapon (You must still lead shots)
-Still no button combos
-Consistent! This is the only change...making the burst consistent. This way, the only advantage one player will have over another is skill. Luck should not be a factor in a competitive game.

This way the BR is still not accurate enough to snipe, and not accurate enough to guarantee a perfect 4-shot every time...but it will remain this way for everyone and not just the lucky will win.

If everyone's BR performs the same, every time, even if the spread isn't perfect, it is a balanced weapon. Right now the winner of a BR fight depends on lucky spread, and I want the winner to rely on skill. Not luck.

Post here if you agree with me, and be mature about it. No flaming unless you've read the entire post.


^^^^^

Argument:

In this statement the OP has all of the Halo 2 facts completely correct. But think about it, Yes, it is was completely consistent. And if that is what you are asking for in halo 3 then it would still be the Ultimate weapon. Think about it. What other weapon is completely consistent in Halo 3 Besides the Spartan Laser and Sniper Riffle (Said by Luke)? AR Bullets Fly everywhere. Needlers fly off anywhere, Rockets can be shot off by an explosion, Spikers don't lock on, Shotguns shoot multiple bullets. I really cannot think of another weapon that is completely consistent in hitting all of its shots. I also Think you may be exaggerating when you say ridiculously because if I am correct on my math and I read the many math equations correctly by JonnyOthan then only one one the 3 bullets is going to be inaccurate out of the three. You also talk about a 1 vs 1 BR duel. Think about this situation too. Once again if I am correct on reading the math equations then one out of the three bullets will not hit. So if you think about that there is a 66.7% (Rounded) change that it will be accurate and a 34.3% chance that one bullet out of the 3 will miss. That is not even a 50% chance! Which brings me to the Final facts of this argument that Only two weapons (that I'm 100% sure on) are 100% accurate. So why should the BR? This question brings us the Real Life Sniper vs the Real Life Battle Riffle. In Real life not every BR weapon is going to hit the exact target. A real life Sniper bullet will hit the exact target. So that equation is correct. So what is so what is so bad about a 34.3% chance of having 1 bullet miss when almost every other weapon will do the same or worse. The last thing in this argument, in a 1 on 1 br duel you will most likley to have the same outcome for both players.

(I know I probably got some facts wrong in there but C'mon you gotta admit that is had to argue against!)


Please Don't spam me telling me I don't know what I'm saying.

This is just my opinion on you should look at the BR changes from Halo 2 to Halo 3.


AND. That was just for the People WHINING. Honestly I like the Halo 3 BR better tahn the H2 one.

I know others have my same opinion, My top posts were for Whiners not people with my opinion.



What do you think of my opinion?

And if I have any facts wrong please tell me and I shall fix.

Discuss nicley...


READ MY ENTIRE POST, I'm not complaining.

I am not complaining, I am telling people that do complain how to deal with it and some facts and opinions behind it.


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I agree with the last argument that only two weapons are consistent, we dont realize that the shotgun (for example) is not consistent because we use it a point blank range, whereas if the shots were being made mid-Medium, mid-Short range, there are plenty of bullets that dont even touch the opponent. True, we want a BR 2 BR fight to be won with skill, but your skill in aiming and pulling a trigger faster than your opponent does not make you capable of controlling the direction of one or any of the three bullets in one burst. Until your final argument that consistency needs to be changed I was with you 100%, the people who want it to be like the halo 2 BR arent good enough (putting it lightly), or are to knit-picky to handle the halo 3 BR. Besides if luck decides the winner of two players in a BR fight, making it a 50% chance for either, then it doesnt really matter much

  • 07.09.2008 9:04 PM PDT

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Posted by: Psychophan7
In [official] MLG gametypes, it only takes 11 bullets to kill someone instead of the normal 12.

12 bullets = 4 shots of 3 bullets.
11 bullets = 3 shots of 4 bullets, 1 shot of 2 bullets.

The argument that the 3rd "random" bullet hurts competitive gaming because it doesn't ensure the killing headshot is absolutely bogus. The killing headshot is the second bullet, not the third.


Posted by: BerserkerBarage


Yeah, cause look how well that carried over with the M6D from HCE to H2. Or the M6D in H3. Or the H2 BR to H3. Yeah, Bungie really takes those things into account...

Again, a random bullet spread versus a constant bullet spread MAKES NO DIFFERENCE! Bullet spread is determined by a scalar value not a vector. Having the bullet spread be .1, .2, and .3 respectively for the BR will not produce any "better" results than the current BR bullet spread in H3.

And yet again, why are people willing to allow randomness with other weapons if they refuse to accept it with the BR? There is bullet spread in the AR, Shotgun, and Mauler and yet I doubt people would be clamoring for Bungie to remove the bullet spread from those weapons. So unless you can give me a better justification than "randomness shouldn't be in H3" then there is nothing wrong with the H3 BR.

~B.B.




You want proof that you're wrong? Just watch this.
BR mythbusters

[Edited on 07.10.2008 2:57 AM PDT]

  • 07.10.2008 2:54 AM PDT

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Posted by: R1BS
I think the people who oppose this are people who complain for the sake of complaining. Why I say that, is because after almost a year of the game being out, this argument has only just flared up. It's not that big of a deal. Jeeze.


It's only just flared up because the majority of us complaining now gave bungie the benefit of the doubt. We allowed for the fact that we would have to "get used to" the Halo 3 BR, but what did we find out 1 year later? We're still losing well deserved kills to random BR spread. Swat is absolutely ruined the way it is, and there is NO getting used to it because it's "broken".

  • 07.10.2008 2:59 AM PDT

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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: Jammyd0dger93
what it all comes down to is,Bungie are just too god damb lazy and naive to fix the BR. they know its broken and to be honest i think they might aswell shut down the forums becuase they dont listen to us. LUCKEMS IS A -blam!- FULLY RETARDED . too -blam!- lazy to fix the BR what a -blam!- he even says on this vid that the brs broken so wtf -http://gameroom.mlgpro.com/view/pFtsSuwjNUo.html

Bungie what happened to the days you acctaully listened to us? i have almost completely abandoned halo 3 after tonight and im going back to halo 2 on my other account because Bungie you are retarded -blam!- U -blam!-s i hope microsoft shuts you -blam!-s down i dont want halo 4 id rather buy a ps3 than buy halo 4 youll probobly respawn with rocket launchers and theyll call it skill. pfft all the respect i had for bungie is gone ... and on BUNGIE DAY .

-blam!- you bungie, -blam!- YOU

flame all you want -blam!-es i wont read it becuase im not coming on this retarded forums again. so flame all you want kids :)

btw the post above me + rep son , you know ur stuff and these -blam!-s will just say omfg i dont notice anything with the br YOU SUCK and then well go onto there service record and there force luitenant 2446 assualt rifle kills 246 br kills 0.45 k/d and they say WE suck -blam!-


Another shining example of the MLG community. What the hell is a Force Lieutenant? That sounds awesome though.

Go back and cry to InsanityTest and cT because we'd rather not have you here if you're just going to through pointless tirades.

~B.B.


He's a forum troll you dolt.

  • 07.10.2008 3:07 AM PDT

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Posted by: FtS Sickshot BR
First off, I'm not quite sad enough to 'diss your stats' because I'm not 12 years old.

Second off, I wasn't bragging, I was simply trying to show that if you can be accurate with the BR then you will have no problem using it.

Sometimes, I hit people 5 times directly in the face and they don't die, but that's just lag or a game problem whatever it is.

Now, I'm not sure whether I said I won all my games, but I meant I haven't lost one.

I'm not a pro, and to be honest, I don't think I'll ever be one. All I want to do is get to level 50, and being 3 levels away is just really annoying, that's why I decided to practice with the BR.

So before you waste your life trying to piss people off, realise you don't actually matter to anyone, because you're not up there with anyone anyway.

I've not looked at your stats but you all you seem to be doing is ranting about technical faults and lag or game metres or some rubbish like that... Just play the game, practice with all weapons, and you won't have a problem will you?

FtS Sickshot BR

P.S. Don't know how to quote, this is to the prick giving me -blam!- about 'bragging'.


Quoting is easy there's a button right down there by "submit".

1)You're the one who brought up stats. Don't gloat about your "glorious record" if you don't want it scrutinized.

2)Nobody, especially me, said anything about game lag. The BR has a random bullet spread that denies well deserved kills based on a flaw in the programming.

3)Not trying to piss anybody off. Just trying to make a point/have an intelligent debate. You waltzed in here hyping your "flawless record" and I felt the need to put you in your place. Call it a personal problem that I have with the ignorant.

4)I noticed the problems with the BR day 1 when I played Halo 3, coming from Halo 2. I ignored it because I wanted to give bungie the benefit of the doubt. Here we are, 1 year later, and I'm still having the same blaming problem, so I don't think practice has anything to do with a luck based weapon. Just like the AR takes no skill the BR, in it's current state, is based on luck as well.

  • 07.10.2008 3:21 AM PDT

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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Yes, and typically competitive-focused console games fail. Look at Shadowrun and FASA. Failed soooo hard the company went bankrupt. It's a fun game (except for the fact that it doesn't offer Legacy controls) but it certainly doesn't appeal to a wide range of people. Halo 3 was more designed to appeal to a wide amount of people while still allowing for customization for the various groups in the community. The so-called "competitive" community is a rather SMALL percentage of the overall Halo community. Designing a game that focuses more on their desires would be like focusing on a group that plays Rocket Race all day. It doesn't make for good gameplay and it certainly doesn't make good business sense.

You, just like Faze and many of the other BR supporters only recognize a limited definition of "skill". You feel that "skill" is determined by how accurately you can fire a weapon. If you are using the Sniper Rifle in H3 (arguably one of the more "skillful" weapons) and someone kills you with an AR, it doesn't make them less skilled than you are. It means they had more skill in the "better suited in that scenario" department. In that situation you unskillfully left yourself open to attack in a situation where your weapon is at a disadvantage.

You might see Halo 3 as a game that doesn't cater or focus on competition but that's probably because it doesn't intend to. Saying someone is less "skilled" than you because he killed you with a weapon that requires less aiming precision is quite possibly the worst logic I've seen used in this thread. If you're really a better player than them, how would they have killed you? You might be the better player in regards to aiming precision but that doesn't necessarily mean you're the better player.

Games that focus too much on a niche group is bad design. That is quite evident with the bankruptcy of FASA.

~B.B.


Widspread appeal can coexist with competitive gaming. They are not mutually exclusive. So what exactly is it that he said wrong. I think he hit the nail right on the head. There's no problem having a casual gaming community right along side the hardcore, but more definition between the two would be nice. I think that was a good sumup of what was said.

  • 07.10.2008 3:41 AM PDT

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Posted by: Mx Sn1pEr
The BR somewhat appears as one of the most effective and most used weapons in the game. Having unbelieveable accuracy at mid-long range the weapon is almost usable anywhere. It also comes effective at close range if you know how to use it and it does need a significant amount of skill to pursuit the full operation and success.

Nothing needs to be changed on the Br. It appears fine and satisfactory the way it is.
.

Except that if you're insanely lucky it's also effective at VERY long ranges. This is the inherent flaw in the BR spread. It's effective from 0-infinite World Units simply based on luck. It's only truely guaranteed effective at 7 WU though, which is roughly the distance from Snipe 3 guardian to oddball spawn in top mid guardian. So in reality the way the BR is now it is a close range weapon guaranteed, mid range-long range luck. What about these things isn't broken?

  • 07.10.2008 3:46 AM PDT

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Posted by: PIay2Betray
Posted by: SCOTTY OWNS U


Argument:

In this statement the OP has all of the Halo 2 facts completely correct. But think about it, Yes, it is was completely consistent. And if that is what you are asking for in halo 3 then it would still be the Ultimate weapon. Think about it. What other weapon is completely consistent in Halo 3 Besides the Spartan Laser and Sniper Riffle (Said by Luke)? AR Bullets Fly everywhere. Needlers fly off anywhere, Rockets can be shot off by an explosion, Spikers don't lock on, Shotguns shoot multiple bullets. I really cannot think of another weapon that is completely consistent in hitting all of its shots. I also Think you may be exaggerating when you say ridiculously because if I am correct on my math and I read the many math equations correctly by JonnyOthan then only one one the 3 bullets is going to be inaccurate out of the three. You also talk about a 1 vs 1 BR duel. Think about this situation too. Once again if I am correct on reading the math equations then one out of the three bullets will not hit. So if you think about that there is a 66.7% (Rounded) change that it will be accurate and a 34.3% chance that one bullet out of the 3 will miss. That is not even a 50% chance! Which brings me to the Final facts of this argument that Only two weapons (that I'm 100% sure on) are 100% accurate. So why should the BR? This question brings us the Real Life Sniper vs the Real Life Battle Riffle. In Real life not every BR weapon is going to hit the exact target. A real life Sniper bullet will hit the exact target. So that equation is correct. So what is so what is so bad about a 34.3% chance of having 1 bullet miss when almost every other weapon will do the same or worse. The last thing in this argument, in a 1 on 1 br duel you will most likley to have the same outcome for both players.

(I know I probably got some facts wrong in there but C'mon you gotta admit that is had to argue against!)


Please Don't spam me telling me I don't know what I'm saying.

This is just my opinion on you should look at the BR changes from Halo 2 to Halo 3.


AND. That was just for the People WHINING. Honestly I like the Halo 3 BR better tahn the H2 one.

I know others have my same opinion, My top posts were for Whiners not people with my opinion.



What do you think of my opinion?

And if I have any facts wrong please tell me and I shall fix.

Discuss nicley...


READ MY ENTIRE POST, I'm not complaining.

I am not complaining, I am telling people that do complain how to deal with it and some facts and opinions behind it.


Totally.


Seriously? Your math is not just off, it's plain wrong. If you have a 3 bullet spread the 3rd bullet has an equal chance of hitting as the other two bullets do. The random spread is just wider. we're still working with the differnce being from a 100%: 51% of the time the bullet will not hit your target, 49% of the time it will hit your target. For a better explanation of why it is 51-49 read this.....

Posted by: HaVOk1228
***Disclaimer: All numbers I've used here in my changes are simply example. Using the medians of the current values COULD work, but the values would have to be tested. So argue the concept, not the values.****

What you did was simply cut the Max Moe in half. Okay, lets just use the first bullet for now. The first bullets MoE is not .15. That is its maximum MoE. Its MoE is actually anywhere between .00 and .15. Since the MoE varies, there is no actual set range. There is only a range at which the BR(with perfect aim) will definitely hit all three shots to the head. That distance is 7 world units. Therefore, the current BR has an indefinite range anywhere between 7 and infinite World Units, since the Random spread actually makes it possible for the BR to shoot 3 bullets that all go perfectly straight. Pure math says that actually happens just as often as the maximum spread. So the "Range" that you calculated, happens rarely, and actually happens as often as a "no spread' shot.

This randomness is bad. The BR has no set range. One burst it could have a range of 11 WUs, the next it could have a range of 84 WUs. Thats not good for gameplay.

So currently the BR has a Minimum range of 7 WUs.
It has a Potential range of Infinite WUs.

If Bungie's random number generator works properly, the median range is about 14 WUs.

Now, if you take the MoE of the first bullet, and instead of having it .00-.15, you change that to .07-.08, you've created a more consistent BR, that has just about always the same range as 14 WUs. The third bullet here would have a MoE of .19, instead of anywhere between .00 and .38.

You may say, "Well that adds more range to the BR." This is KIND OF true, it adds to the MINIMUM range of the BR, which before was 7. With this system, the Minimum range is 14. So with perfect aim, the BR will always be 100% efficient within 14 units.

However, even though it added to the Minimum Range, it took even more from the potential range. That also, is now at 14 instead of Infinite.

So the current BR has a range anywhere up to Infinite WUs. That's quite a big range, and thats a lot of inconsistency. Bungie says they toned down its range, when in reality, they toned down its range on some bursts, then others the range is super far.

The BR with these changes would have a range of 14. It wouldn't go higher. The current BR has a range greater than 14 49% of the time. So for half your bursts, this BR would be less accurate. For the other half, it would be more accurate. So hearing that you may say "Well then what's the difference?" The BR with these changes would be more consistent. A roll of dice would not determine how accurate your BR shot is on each burst. Its also is not eliminating the spread.

***Disclaimer: All numbers I've used here in my changes are simply example. Using the medians of the current values COULD work, but the values would have to be tested. So argue the concept, not the values.****

  • 07.10.2008 3:57 AM PDT
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The New BR is my Opinion is a extremely powerful weapon but no weapon is perfect so they give it flaws to balance the game out and make it fun and fair.

Bungies doin there jobs. Thumbs up.

[Edited on 07.10.2008 4:39 AM PDT]

  • 07.10.2008 4:38 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: MadroKurgan
But those "half-retarded circus monkeys" as you say, do just that. And the sad thing is, it still kills you when you have spawned with your back turned against them. They def deserved that skillful kill, don't they? They cannot do just that with a BR. And if that concept fails you, then you might want to stick a ruler down your throat to stop your tongue form choking you to death.


You can spawn-kill people just as easily with a BR as you can with an AR. What you just described is a problem with the spawn system not weaponry.


I don't buy into what any one has to say. I just agree with what the top pros say. And what they say makes a hella lot more common sense then what you are prescribing to. Plus, they have much more experience then you or I do. So what they say holds more weight. Yes, i'm sorry, but i believe that experience is worth more then observation.


And what do they have to say? I haven't seen a documented case of a SINGLE "pro" speaking out against how the BR works in H3. I don't follow MLG that closely but I'm pretty sure if something like that was posted I'd know about it. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the Ogre twins finally let slip that they hate the BR. So far I haven't heard that though.


You stated that MLG took out the mauler, shotgun, AR and other weapons because when they increased weapon damage to 110%, for the BR, it made these other weapons too powerful, so they had to get rid of them. Of which is a very naive, and assumed conclusion.


No, I said they removed the shotgun and AR because when MLG upped the damage to 110% it made those weapons even more overpowering for the BR. It's not an assumed conclusion when I have a quote from John Nelson backing it up now is it? Do you want a screenshot of the PM I have from him from the MLG forums? Why do you think they removed the shotgun and left the mauler? They are identical style of weapons (since you can't dual wield in MLG). However the shotgun is more powerful than the mauler at slightly more distance. That is even more when combined with 110% damage.

~B.B.

  • 07.10.2008 7:47 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: MadroKurgan
You are being very naive and assuming wayyy too much as to why FASA studios went under. You blame it solely on shadowrun, and then go on to assume the reason why shadowrun didn't do so well, was because it was designed solely for competitive, niche play (of which itself is a gross assumption). So much assuming, and fallacy statements that my head is about to burst.


Fine, name for me what is fallacious. Can I say with certainty that the last game produced by FASA was seen more of a "competitive Multiplayer game"? Yep. Can I say with certainty that that game failed to meet sales goals? Yep. Can I say with certainty that after the failure of Shadowrun that FASA went bankrupt? Yep.

Your logic cannot explain away a game called Halo:CE. Halo 1 was the most competitive console shooter available, much more then Halo 2 or 3. And yet it somehow appealed to both sides, the hardcore competitive crowd AND the non competitive majority. Halo 1 did everything but fail, and was the catalyst for the huge sales of Halo 2, and arguably much of Halo 3.


Oh good, I'm glad you brought up HCE because I've been meaning to talk about it. Do more competitive and casual players play HCE or H3? Does H3 not appeal to both sides? I mean obviously it must appeal to people if they continue to play the game, hold tournaments for the game, call the game their "flagship" et cetera.

Now before you start *trying* to make an utilitarian argument, let me just stop you now. You don't know exactly how many people prefer HCE and how many prefer H3. You don't know how many people would prefer HCE over H3 or H3 over HCE. Trying to make an argument based solely on your "opinion" of how many people preferred HCE in the competitive community versus in the casual community is illogical.

Even if you try to make that illogical argument all I have to do is say that it is my opinion that H3 appeals to more people in both communities than HCE does/did. Just as you are "forced" to tolerate things in H3 you don't like but still play it; I was "forced" to tolerate things in HCE that I didn't like but still played it. I know many "casuals" that have played all three games and prefer H3 over HCE. I know many "competitive" players that have played all three games and prefer H3 over HCE.

You are making a petitio principii fallacy by saying that *more* people preferred HCE to H3 in both "communities".

[edit]Oh, I almost forgot again what I wanted to say about HCE. How careless of me. In HCE the game PUNISHED you for being a better player. It physically PUNISHED you. It made it so that with the more people you killed the slower you would move. Making it harder to strafe or make it to med-kits. The default Multiplayer on HCE had what was called a "kill-penalty". It attempted to balance the so-called "good players" versus the so-called "bad players" by making it so the good players had a harder time strafing and moving. Hell, in H3 at least both players using a BR have the same chance of bullet spread. It seems to me that HCE has a much much much more dramatic "balancing" aspect to it than H3 does. I think essentially the equivalent would be that in H3 with the more people you killed the slower your shields recharged. Yep, HCE sure didn't attempt to balance players now did it?[/edit]

~B.B.

[Edited on 07.10.2008 8:25 AM PDT]

  • 07.10.2008 8:03 AM PDT
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the BR rapes plain n simple cant handle it then dont play BR variants

  • 07.10.2008 8:09 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: CravenC21h30o2
He's a forum troll you dolt.


I know he's a troll... but he still is a troll that is representing the MLG/competitive community.


Posted by: CravenC21h30o2
Widspread appeal can coexist with competitive gaming. They are not mutually exclusive. So what exactly is it that he said wrong. I think he hit the nail right on the head. There's no problem having a casual gaming community right along side the hardcore, but more definition between the two would be nice. I think that was a good sumup of what was said.


Yes, and wider-spread appeal can coexist with a more "casual game". Apparently competitive gamers can find a way to turn a more "casually designed game" and make it more competitive, especially when said game gives them additional options such as Forge. Gaming has changed drastically in the past decade. When I played UT99 and Quake pretty much everyone that played those games were "competitive gamers" just because of the nature of the "beast" years ago. Since then gaming has become much more accepted and much more approachable to more people. To continue designing games like you would have back in 1998/1999 is bad design. You can't assume that your audience is going to want a game that has a very high competitive edge. You might be incredibly popular with the more competitive gamers but another game is going to come out that appeals to more people and it's going to blow you out of the water. So, what did Bungie do? They made a game that would appeal to a larger group of people while giving you options to craft the game into (as closely as possible with the options) your preferred way of playing the game. You can't get it exactly how you wanted but apparently you can get it close enough to start running tournaments off of it.

I'd much rather have a BR spread that has equal chance for each player than a "kill-penalty" that makes me move half as fast if I kill 5 people.

~B.B.

  • 07.10.2008 8:22 AM PDT
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People complain too much, they always seem to forget that its just a videogame. Try telling that to the kids at mlgpro.com

  • 07.10.2008 3:58 PM PDT
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There is nothing really wrong with the BR, but I liked Halo 2's BR more than the current one. People have to stop complaining.

  • 07.10.2008 4:28 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
[edit]Oh, I almost forgot again what I wanted to say about HCE. How careless of me. In HCE the game PUNISHED you for being a better player. It physically PUNISHED you. It made it so that with the more people you killed the slower you would move. Making it harder to strafe or make it to med-kits. The default Multiplayer on HCE had what was called a "kill-penalty". It attempted to balance the so-called "good players" versus the so-called "bad players" by making it so the good players had a harder time strafing and moving. Hell, in H3 at least both players using a BR have the same chance of bullet spread. It seems to me that HCE has a much much much more dramatic "balancing" aspect to it than H3 does. I think essentially the equivalent would be that in H3 with the more people you killed the slower your shields recharged. Yep, HCE sure didn't attempt to balance players now did it?[/edit]

~B.B.

I don't exactly remember their being those settings in the default Slayer. I know you could edit the settings to do so just like in Halo 2 and Halo 3. Either way, if you played the default Slayer (which starts you out with plasma pistols) then you probably didn't have very much fun. That would be the reason for everyone playing Slayer Pro, CTF Pro, etc. The Pro settings did not have a kill penalty.

  • 07.10.2008 4:32 PM PDT