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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
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Damn berserker, do you spend all of your time on these forums? Just an observation. In every thread about the br I see you posting pages of text.

  • 07.12.2008 3:22 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: zacks1month
Damn berserker, do you spend all of your time on these forums? Just an observation. In every thread about the br I see you posting pages of text.


I have it running in the background at work. Some of my shorter posts come from my Treo when I'm out and about. Like this one for example. I'm at the movies currently.

Some of my comments I just cut and paste from other threads.

~B.B.

  • 07.12.2008 3:27 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: HaIo FkN cide
LOL! So if the original gametype was set to oddball I guess the way the game was meant to be played would be oddball? Your wrong on so many levels


LOL. The fact that you still think Slayer Pro is anything different than a Custom Gametype is hilarious. Nice ad hominem though. I guess you can't counter the fact that the default way even HCE was played didn't spawn you with a weapon capable of headshots. If spawning with the M6D was suppose to be the way the game was initially set up...please tell me what it is called "Slayer Pro" instead of "Default".

Oh, and there is a default way to play Oddball as well. Just a FYI.

Keep trying Halocide, I'm enjoying the humor of your posts.

~B.B.

  • 07.12.2008 3:41 PM PDT
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I would like to see the br made more consistant within it's intended range (when reticle turns red) and if not then possibly a forge variant of the weapon with a reduced spread (or nerd rage as Luke calls it in the podcast). I'm not sure how reducing the current br's spread would affect the balance of the game, so it would seem an option to adjust the spread in forge would be a safe option.

Just my 2c.

  • 07.12.2008 3:44 PM PDT
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The only reason ppl compalin about the Br is cause they suck with it, now since all the ppl had to be babys about it its not put into slayer matches that much anymore

  • 07.12.2008 3:57 PM PDT

You know you're in love when you can't fall asleep because reality is better than your dreams. - Dr. Seuss

I love the BR the way it is, the only way I could love it more is if it where just maybe a nano sec faster.

  • 07.12.2008 4:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: DZS12593
The only reason ppl compalin about the Br is cause they suck with it, now since all the ppl had to be babys about it its not put into slayer matches that much anymore

Very untrue. I know alot of people who are good with the br and still shake their heads at how random it can feel at times.

  • 07.12.2008 4:15 PM PDT
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In my honest opinion, everyone aruging in this room clearly has not heard of a weapon called the rocket launcher. This weapon is capable of killing more than one person in one shot, therefore by default making it a far superior weapon.

Also FYI: Deadliest Catch is a far better fps shooter than Halo will ever be.

  • 07.12.2008 5:17 PM PDT

AAO 117(Klondike)

I wish that the BR was just like the one in Halo2. The new t 4 and 5 burst and it's slow firing rate. Please make it shoot faster atleast. Thanks!

  • 07.12.2008 5:47 PM PDT

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

BR= best weapon ever.

  • 07.12.2008 6:36 PM PDT

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Posted by: ST CheezHead
BR IS BROKEN

Lower the spread by HALF
Randomness is no substitute


I know you're probably not going to read this, but your point has already been adressed.

BNET KIDS PLEASE STOP SPAMMING THIS THREAD WITH POINTLESS RAMBLINGS ABOUT YOUR OPINION WE ARE HAVING A SERIOUS DEBATE ABOUT THE RANDOM SPREAD OF THE BR. IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME AND READ PREVIOUS POSTS THEN DON'T BOTHER POSTING. PLEASE BY ALL MEANS CONTRIBUTE, BUT CONTRIBUTE TO THE DEBATE AT HAND NOT JUST WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT OR WRONG WITH THE BR.

Now to adress your point again. Lowering the spread by half will not solve any problems, and in fact will only create more problems by increasing the effective range of the BR. The problem is an inconsistent/random spread. The spread numbers are fine, and we can become accustom to them, if they weren't randomly selected. The numbers should be consistent within a .001 range, instead of an infinite range. With consistent numbers a skilled player can correctly adjust to the proper aim for the proper bullet trajectory so he knows when it will hit and when it won't.

  • 07.12.2008 6:39 PM PDT

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Posted by: stoozer
I would like to see the br made more consistant within it's intended range (when reticle turns red) and if not then possibly a forge variant of the weapon with a reduced spread (or nerd rage as Luke calls it in the podcast). I'm not sure how reducing the current br's spread would affect the balance of the game, so it would seem an option to adjust the spread in forge would be a safe option.

Just my 2c.


Yes except for the actual reducing of the spread. Just removing the randomness of it is fine with most people and would alleviate most if not all of the problems. The BR's intended range I believe is 14 World Units. At this time the truely effective range of the BR is only 7 World Units, that's guaranteed effectiveness. Thus making it a close range weapon. FYI The AR is also effective at 7 WU. 7 WU is about the distance from Snipe 3 guardian to Top Mid guardian. A customizable BR would also suffice, since most truly competitive games are played in custom, and not actually on matchmaking.

  • 07.12.2008 6:45 PM PDT

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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: HaIo FkN cide
LOL! So if the original gametype was set to oddball I guess the way the game was meant to be played would be oddball? Your wrong on so many levels


LOL. The fact that you still think Slayer Pro is anything different than a Custom Gametype is hilarious. Nice ad hominem though. I guess you can't counter the fact that the default way even HCE was played didn't spawn you with a weapon capable of headshots. If spawning with the M6D was suppose to be the way the game was initially set up...please tell me what it is called "Slayer Pro" instead of "Default".

Oh, and there is a default way to play Oddball as well. Just a FYI.

Keep trying Halocide, I'm enjoying the humor of your posts.

~B.B.


Not to point out the obvious or anything, but you're really the only one with a valid opinion on the "BR is fine" side of this debate, so can I politely ask that we get back to the debate at hand and stop talking about what weapon you spawned with in a game that came out nearly a decade ago?

  • 07.12.2008 6:47 PM PDT
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I think that bungie did a great job getting rid of all the bugs/button combos with the br. It has been brought to earth. I do admit that the Br lost a lot of it's power if you compare it to halo2's br but now it takes skill to kill some one with a br. You cant just bxr and double shot like in halo 2. It is still remains a godly weapon to those who know how to use it. It is way more difficult to defeat powerful weapons like the rocket. By the way four shotting is extremely fun...

  • 07.12.2008 7:16 PM PDT

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Posted by: M4 M45T3R
I think that bungie did a great job getting rid of all the bugs/button combos with the br. It has been brought to earth. I do admit that the Br lost a lot of it's power if you compare it to halo2's br but now it takes skill to kill some one with a br. You cant just bxr and double shot like in halo 2. It is still remains a godly weapon to those who know how to use it. It is way more difficult to defeat powerful weapons like the rocket. By the way four shotting is extremely fun...


Just FYI....It didn't lose any "power" when you compare it to H2, it lost a consistent bullet spread, and it's hitscan abilities. Without the Hitscan ability it makes the player lead their shots. This take increased skill, and is perfectly fine with the majority of the community. The inconsistent bullet spread, however, lends a certain amount of luck rather than skill to the BR in H3. Now understand that we're not talking about when you 4 shot some 9 year old kid who just picked up his big brother's controller for the first time ever. We're talking about when two equally skilled players meet up, both with a BR. The one who wins is decided based solely on luck. This is not the way a combat simulator should be designed, and it is anti-competitive.

  • 07.12.2008 7:40 PM PDT

We just need to instigate more elitism and Mythic shenanigans.

Posted by: M4 M45T3R
I think that bungie did a great job getting rid of all the bugs/button combos with the br. It has been brought to earth. I do admit that the Br lost a lot of it's power if you compare it to halo2's br but now it takes skill to kill some one with a br. You cant just bxr and double shot like in halo 2. It is still remains a godly weapon to those who know how to use it. It is way more difficult to defeat powerful weapons like the rocket. By the way four shotting is extremely fun...
QFT

The BR is not supposed to be the ultimate weapon, and I think that it is fine how it is.

  • 07.12.2008 7:41 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: HaIo FkN cide
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: HaIo FkN cide
LOL! So if the original gametype was set to oddball I guess the way the game was meant to be played would be oddball? Your wrong on so many levels


LOL. The fact that you still think Slayer Pro is anything different than a Custom Gametype is hilarious. Nice ad hominem though. I guess you can't counter the fact that the default way even HCE was played didn't spawn you with a weapon capable of headshots. If spawning with the M6D was suppose to be the way the game was initially set up...please tell me what it is called "Slayer Pro" instead of "Default".

Oh, and there is a default way to play Oddball as well. Just a FYI.

Keep trying Halocide, I'm enjoying the humor of your posts.

~B.B.

It's pretty obvious it's impossible to convince you otherwise Barage. It's like talking to a brick wall; you don't listen. It's also pretty obvious that your so convinced that your right on everything you say there is really no point in talking to you. It's not even a discussion, it's more like talking to a machine and hearing you say what you've repeatedly said time and time again.


It's not impossible to convince me. It's just impossible when YOU'RE WRONG! Team Slayer Pro doesn't exist in HCE until you make the gametype! Bungie never put it in there so how can you say that was the initial way HCE was suppose to be played?

The "default" version of both Slayer and Team Slayer had different weapons on spawn depending on which map you played on. Apparently those are what Bungie initially envisioned the game to be played like. They gave you other "custom game" options just like Snipers, Rockets, Iron CTF, and Slayer Pro for FFA just like they give you Oddball, VIP, Territories, Rockets in H3.

As to who said that this has little to nothing to do with the H3 BR debate. It actually does. My point is that Bungie has always made it so that on default you start with a "general" type weapon, one that doesn't reward headshots. It was that way in HCE. It was that way in H2. It is that way in H3. Since many people who support "fixing" the BR attempt to use a historical argument; it is very important to point this out.

~B.B.

  • 07.12.2008 7:46 PM PDT

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Posted by: BerserkerBarage

As to who said that this has little to nothing to do with the H3 BR debate. It actually does. My point is that Bungie has always made it so that on default you start with a "general" type weapon, one that doesn't reward headshots. It was that way in HCE. It was that way in H2. It is that way in H3. Since many people who support "fixing" the BR attempt to use a historical argument; it is very important to point this out.

~B.B.


No! The starting weapon in H3 is the AR for most gametypes, not the BR. This debate is about what's wrong with the BR.

On one side we have the more competitive community raving about the random spread, and how it lends itself more towards luck than skill.

On the other side we have people who think the BR is fine the way it is, and for some reason seem to think that if you don't like the BR that must mean you suck with it.

That is what this thread is about. HCE is historically recognized for it's M6D pitol, weather this was the "default" starting weapon or not. Halo 2 is remembered, mostly, for it's "overpowered" BR, but the "default" starting weapon was the SMG. The default weapons are not the ones we are debating about, and that is why the M6D is brought up. This is off topic discussion by this logic, and I would appreciate getting back to the real discussion thank you.

[Edited on 07.12.2008 8:03 PM PDT]

  • 07.12.2008 8:00 PM PDT

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Posted by: Reykjavik
Posted by: M4 M45T3R
I think that bungie did a great job getting rid of all the bugs/button combos with the br. It has been brought to earth. I do admit that the Br lost a lot of it's power if you compare it to halo2's br but now it takes skill to kill some one with a br. You cant just bxr and double shot like in halo 2. It is still remains a godly weapon to those who know how to use it. It is way more difficult to defeat powerful weapons like the rocket. By the way four shotting is extremely fun...
QFT

The BR is not supposed to be the ultimate weapon, and I think that it is fine how it is.


OH DEAR GOD! If you would please read previous posts you would not think that it's fine. Nor would you be so narrow minded on the issue. Also please if you're going to continue to post on this thread PLEASE post something more than just your opinion of the BR.

  • 07.12.2008 8:05 PM PDT

We just need to instigate more elitism and Mythic shenanigans.

Posted by: TheFaze
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: TheFaze
Did I ever say take out leading? Yeah take it out at like 10 yards..you shouldn't have to lead there. But if you want to bring up the point about it being in the future and keeping up the times..well...here goes...If it is 400 years in the future, don't you think that they would have a gun that could eliminate spread? Come on...
Note that this isn't an attack directed at you...just your comments.


Yeah, that would explain why there is also bullet spread on the Assault Rifle, Shotgun, and Mauler in H3. Or why the plasma pistol, plasma rifle, or beam rifle overheat after continued use! I mean come on Bungie, we're talking about the future here!! You don't think heat-sink technology would have advanced to the point where a simple plasma weapon wouldn't overheat?

If you are saying that a "realism" argument can't be used in regards to the BR with why it has bullet spread you can't at the same time expect the same argument to be used in regards to the AR, Shotgun, or Mauler.

So ask yourself? Why should the AR or Shotgun have bullet spread. If your justification starts with "because it's a full-automatic weapon" or "it's a shotgun"...you can't say that the BR shouldn't have a bullet spread as well.

~B.B.

This is exactly the reason we can't put realism into effect in this game. First off, if you want to talk realism, we would have larger clips, better calibers, etc. I understand where you are coming from though....I think...and you have one of the most well prepared arguments so far. And a shotgun should have a bullet spread because...well isn't that what a shotgun is supposed to do? Another thing. We don't want a BR that can 4 shot across the map. We want an accurate]/b] BR spread that promotes skill instead of randomness.
EDIT: I just thought of something.
A good example of what we want the spread to be like is the M16 in CoD4. The weapon [b] has a spread
, but it is very small so it promotes skill.


If we looked at Halo realistically, it is all BS. Even if we accept that in a half century they have energy shields and space flight, which is plausible; if we look at how warfare has evolved over time, when halo takes place the weapons would be so powerful and have so much range that everyone would be killed as soon as they were in range, the weapons would probably be able to go through solid metal. Also all of the combat would be from vehicles, mostly orbital bombardment, which would be accurate and controlled to the point that collateral damage would be nonexistent, but the power would still be strong enough to destroy the toughest bunkers.

So we have to look at in terms of game ballance and fun. Every weapon adds variety, while keeping the game ballanced. In Halo 2, the BR was the only common weapon that had good range and power. In Halo 3, there are more good medium range weapons, so the BR should not destroy everything past a few yards.

  • 07.12.2008 8:11 PM PDT

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Posted by: Reykjavik

If we looked at Halo realistically, it is all BS. Even if we accept that in a half century they have energy shields and space flight, which is plausible; if we look at how warfare has evolved over time, when halo takes place the weapons would be so powerful and have so much range that everyone would be killed as soon as they were in range, the weapons would probably be able to go through solid metal. Also all of the combat would be from vehicles, mostly orbital bombardment, which would be accurate and controlled to the point that collateral damage would be nonexistent, but the power would still be strong enough to destroy the toughest bunkers.

So we have to look at in terms of game ballance and fun. Every weapon adds variety, while keeping the game ballanced. In Halo 2, the BR was the only common weapon that had good range and power. In Halo 3, there are more good medium range weapons, so the BR should not destroy everything past a few yards.


Thank you for your post. Yes we've adressed the issue of reality in Halo, and most of the more intelligent members of this community have realized that Halo=/=Reality in any way.

As for the rest of your post, in H3 the BR and the covie Carbine are still the only true Medium range weapons. In it's current state the BR doesn't even qualify as a medium range weapon, and that is part of the problem. The guaranteed range of the Br is 7 World Units. It's intended range is 14 WU, but at any range above 7 it becomes unreliable due to a random bullet spread determined by the game engine. This fact lends the BR to be more about luck within it intended range, and less about skill. To bring back skill to the equation the random bullet spread must be removed, and the effective range of the BR should be permanently set at 14 WU. Just for reference, right now the unguaranteed, or possible effective range of the BR if you get lucky enough to have a tight bullet spread randomly picked for you is INFINITE. You could randomly be effective at up to INFINITE range, that is if you could effectively target your opponent at infinite range with your BR. So realistically You could effectively use your BR at the maximum range of it's scope because of random spread. Again this lends to luck not skill, which has no place in a competitive combat simulator.

  • 07.12.2008 8:24 PM PDT

Posted by: CravenC21h30o2


OH DEAR GOD! If you would please read previous posts you would not think that it's fine. Nor would you be so narrow minded on the issue. Also please if you're going to continue to post on this thread PLEASE post something more than just your opinion of the BR.


I've followed this debate since the beginning and I'm a heavy BR-user - and I still don't agree with you. The point that the guy you're responding to was trying to make was, regardless of how many world units the BR range is set what effect at, not everybody who uses the BR feels unfairly handicapped by it.

An experienced player has a good feel for the limitations of the weapons he or she uses and adjusts strategy accordingly. Both teams play under the same limitations. If you engage an enemy under conditions you can't control (i.e. out of accurate range) and get taken down by a lucky bullet that's a poor strategy choice on your part, not poor game design.

It's like blaming a lost basketball game on the ref - only Halo 3 is an arena that can't be anything other than neutral because it applys the same rules to all players. As long as that's the case, the question of how the BR should behave at specific ranges are simply matters of personal opinion.

  • 07.12.2008 9:39 PM PDT