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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

Netcode is behind the problem with the BR. it isnt the spread.
the netcode on Halo 3 has some kinde of design flaw, that makes bullets magically disappear from your gun.

http://gameroom.mlgpro.com/view/uJoCsNjeAEY.html

look at that video and then the ammo counter in particular.
the BR spread isnt in effect at that range. there are two people in the game, the person firing is off-host, and somehow is packets get lost or dont register. then the host notices a bullet is missing from the BR burst, and refunds it by saying: bullet 2 of 3 didnt fire, which is read by your box as: oh allright, so i was wrong about the second bullet being fired. that's fine, lets just give him his bullet back.
this is a major issue with the BR and probably all the weapons, because a netcode issue like this is universal for all weapons.

Bungie please look into this.


Wow. Now I understand why even at point blank range, sometimes the bullets miss. This is ridiculous and should be fixed. That explains why sometimes I shoot twice and melee and the people just don't die. Bungie, plz look into this.

  • 07.15.2008 7:32 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: HaVOk1228
What distinguishes the Slayer pro gametype as Custom, and the Slayer gametype as default? They were both default gametypes, built into the game.


Well, the simple answer is one is named "Slayer" and the other is named "Slayer Pro". Slayer would be the default, base gametype and Slayer Pro would be a custom variant of that default gametype. If Bungie had considered what we call "Slayer Pro" to be the default version, I'd suppose they would have called it "Slayer" now wouldn't they?

Halo has no RIGHT way or DEFAULT way to play. Its a game designed to be played in many different ways.

Thanks Captain Obvious; I never said there was a right or wrong way to play HCE/H2/H3. I NEVER once made a "value statement" in regards to whether Slayer (Default) was "right" compared to Slayer Pro. I really wish you people could keep up so I don't have to constantly go back and repeat myself. There certainly is a "default" way to play Halo though. For example, the "default" Team Slayer match will start you with the AR and surprisingly it is named "Team Slayer" as in "Team Slayer (Default)".

Essentially what you just said is that CTF is not how Halo is meant to be played, because its a "Custom game" setting. What you don't see is that EVERYTHING is custom made, even Team Slayer. Even Slayer from Halo: CE.

Ahhhh look at the cute little strawman. *pokes strawman* I too wish that you had a brain...off to see the Wizard.

Degrading aside; NO I certainly did not essentially just say that CTF is not how HCE was meant to be played. You're complete lack of understanding is what makes you think I did. There is a "CTF (Default)". As well there were even "pre-made" custom game variants of CTF in HCE. In HCE one such custom game variant was called "Iron CTF". That's the variant while the gametype called "CTF" is the default. That's typically how the process works; you have the "default" gametype (normally just named what it is such as Slayer, Team Slayer, CTF, Oddball, etc.) and then you have custom variants of those games (normally named with some moniker and then the "default" name such as Iron CTF, Slayer Pro, Team Snipers, 3-ball, etc.). Even with this common sense approach aside, I can easily say that Team Slayer (default) was the way Bungie wanted you to play Team Slayer in HCE because there wasn't another variant when it shipped. So regardless of whether or not you believe that the rest of those are actually "custom game variants" (which they are) I can still say with 100% accuracy that Bungie originally intended Team Slayer matches to not have a M6D start (unless on certain maps) and had a "kill-penalty" that physically 'punished' better players.

But by your definition, go ahead and play Slayer and team Slayer all day. thats the way Halo was meant to be played. Obviously if you play any Objective, or spawn with a M6D/BR, you can't play Halo, because thats just wrong....

So many strawmen...so little brain...

I'm starting to wonder if you are actually capable of understanding...but alas my generosity is abundant so I will explain it one more time. There are "default" versions of all the major gametypes in HCE, H2, and H3. They are all named what they are. Again, "Slayer, Team Slayer, Oddball, CTF, KOTH, etc". These are the ways that Bungie originally envisioned those gametypes to be played on a default/base level. Sure, they gave you a couple custom variants of those included with the default ones, and they named those accordingly (Slayer Pro, Team Snipers, 3-Ball, Crazy King, etc.) however those custom variants are just that, variants of the original default version Bungie set up.

I'm (AGAIN) NOT saying that one gametype or version is better than the other. Me personally? I played more on the custom game variant Team Slayer Pro or CTF Pro when I played HCE. However, I understood that I had made my own person version of the game and while I preferred it that way, I understood that Bungie had originally set up the game differently. Which is why I am not convoluted or delusional enough to say that my "custom variant" was the way that HCE was played or represented HCE. Just like if you constantly played Team Slayer Pro, that doesn't change the fact that even in HCE's Team Slayer the game was set up so that you didn't spawn with the M6D (aside from a couple maps) and you had a "kill-penalty".

To reiterate. This whole discussion is in regards to the people complaining about H3 and the BR because they say that the weapon isn't set up to be competitive. Well, if you've been playing attention, Halo was NEVER set up to be competitive. It allows you to make it that way if you so wish, but it has never been that way by default. People say that H3 isn't competitive. Well, do what people have been doing for almost a decade in Halo games and make a variant where you feel it's more competitive. But at the same time don't expect the "default" gameplay to adhere to your desire.

~B.B.

  • 07.15.2008 8:29 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: ST CheezHead
The starting weapon should not be random. And the Br is a MAJOR staring weapon. Having a game decided by randomness just isn't right.


And yet you are unwilling to remove the bullet spread from the AR. The AR is the default starting weapon in H3 and it has random bullet spread. Games are decided by randomness all the time. Any time someone uses either the AR, shotgun, BR, or mauler, there is automatically "randomness" thrown into the game. Randomness or luck has always and will always be a part of every sporting competition and video game.

~B.B.

  • 07.15.2008 8:33 AM PDT
  • gamertag: iFazey
  • user homepage:

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: ST CheezHead
The starting weapon should not be random. And the Br is a MAJOR staring weapon. Having a game decided by randomness just isn't right.


And yet you are unwilling to remove the bullet spread from the AR. The AR is the default starting weapon in H3 and it has random bullet spread. Games are decided by randomness all the time. Any time someone uses either the AR, shotgun, BR, or mauler, there is automatically "randomness" thrown into the game. Randomness or luck has always and will always be a part of every sporting competition and video game.

~B.B.

Why would you tighten the spread on any of those weapons besides the BR? The mauler and the shotgun are supposed to have spread. That is how they are coded into the game. The AR is a different story though. It works in its intended range. It even works a little outside of its intended range well. With the BR this is not the case. The BR can barely work in its intended range. Honestly, you have such an elitist attitude because you think you are so right, and during this whole debate all you have done is belittle people and I'm tired of watching it. How you can think it is fair that in a 1v1 with equal skill, distance, etc, that luck is the deciding factor in who wins is beyond me.

[Edited on 07.15.2008 8:51 AM PDT]

  • 07.15.2008 8:50 AM PDT
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  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

br is fine the way it is it is an awsome wepon i just hope nobody changes it

  • 07.15.2008 9:11 AM PDT

Posted by: C Dirty 4
Reach essentially has put the "I" in "Team".


Remember, the enemy's gate is down

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: HaVOk1228
What distinguishes the Slayer pro gametype as Custom, and the Slayer gametype as default? They were both default gametypes, built into the game.


Well, the simple answer is one is named "Slayer" and the other is named "Slayer Pro". Slayer would be the default, base gametype and Slayer Pro would be a custom variant of that default gametype. If Bungie had considered what we call "Slayer Pro" to be the default version, I'd suppose they would have called it "Slayer" now wouldn't they?

Halo has no RIGHT way or DEFAULT way to play. Its a game designed to be played in many different ways.

Thanks Captain Obvious; I never said there was a right or wrong way to play HCE/H2/H3. I NEVER once made a "value statement" in regards to whether Slayer (Default) was "right" compared to Slayer Pro. I really wish you people could keep up so I don't have to constantly go back and repeat myself. There certainly is a "default" way to play Halo though. For example, the "default" Team Slayer match will start you with the AR and surprisingly it is named "Team Slayer" as in "Team Slayer (Default)".

Essentially what you just said is that CTF is not how Halo is meant to be played, because its a "Custom game" setting. What you don't see is that EVERYTHING is custom made, even Team Slayer. Even Slayer from Halo: CE.

Ahhhh look at the cute little strawman. *pokes strawman* I too wish that you had a brain...off to see the Wizard.

Degrading aside; NO I certainly did not essentially just say that CTF is not how HCE was meant to be played. You're complete lack of understanding is what makes you think I did. There is a "CTF (Default)". As well there were even "pre-made" custom game variants of CTF in HCE. In HCE one such custom game variant was called "Iron CTF". That's the variant while the gametype called "CTF" is the default. That's typically how the process works; you have the "default" gametype (normally just named what it is such as Slayer, Team Slayer, CTF, Oddball, etc.) and then you have custom variants of those games (normally named with some moniker and then the "default" name such as Iron CTF, Slayer Pro, Team Snipers, 3-ball, etc.). Even with this common sense approach aside, I can easily say that Team Slayer (default) was the way Bungie wanted you to play Team Slayer in HCE because there wasn't another variant when it shipped. So regardless of whether or not you believe that the rest of those are actually "custom game variants" (which they are) I can still say with 100% accuracy that Bungie originally intended Team Slayer matches to not have a M6D start (unless on certain maps) and had a "kill-penalty" that physically 'punished' better players.

But by your definition, go ahead and play Slayer and team Slayer all day. thats the way Halo was meant to be played. Obviously if you play any Objective, or spawn with a M6D/BR, you can't play Halo, because thats just wrong....

So many strawmen...so little brain...

I'm starting to wonder if you are actually capable of understanding...but alas my generosity is abundant so I will explain it one more time. There are "default" versions of all the major gametypes in HCE, H2, and H3. They are all named what they are. Again, "Slayer, Team Slayer, Oddball, CTF, KOTH, etc". These are the ways that Bungie originally envisioned those gametypes to be played on a default/base level. Sure, they gave you a couple custom variants of those included with the default ones, and they named those accordingly (Slayer Pro, Team Snipers, 3-Ball, Crazy King, etc.) however those custom variants are just that, variants of the original default version Bungie set up.

I'm (AGAIN) NOT saying that one gametype or version is better than the other. Me personally? I played more on the custom game variant Team Slayer Pro or CTF Pro when I played HCE. However, I understood that I had made my own person version of the game and while I preferred it that way, I understood that Bungie had originally set up the game differently. Which is why I am not convoluted or delusional enough to say that my "custom variant" was the way that HCE was played or represented HCE. Just like if you constantly played Team Slayer Pro, that doesn't change the fact that even in HCE's Team Slayer the game was set up so that you didn't spawn with the M6D (aside from a couple maps) and you had a "kill-penalty".


The difference is is that Bungie made those two gametypes for two different crowds. Slayer was designed for the Casual crowd, and Slayer pro was designed for Competitive play. It worked for both. In Halo2 and Halo3, you can have your gametype thats good for casual play, Slayer, but even with all the forging and customizing, you cannot make a game that is as good for competitive play as Halo:CE was. This is where the complaints come from.

So when the competitive community talks about "spawning with the Pistol" they don't mean Bungie designed it to start with the Pistol, they meant they could simply switch gametypes and play a gametype with competitive settings in mind, and it worked awesome. From a competitive standpoint, Halo2 and Halo3 were large steps down from Halo: CE.

I also have no clue why you feel a need to demean everyone. You aren't more intelligent than everyone here, and stop acting like you are. There is no need for insults. I never insulted you. Not to mention you have no clue how intelligent I am, so you could try to stop making baseless assumptions.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
To reiterate. This whole discussion is in regards to the people complaining about H3 and the BR because they say that the weapon isn't set up to be competitive. Well, if you've been playing attention, Halo was NEVER set up to be competitive. It allows you to make it that way if you so wish, but it has never been that way by default. People say that H3 isn't competitive. Well, do what people have been doing for almost a decade in Halo games and make a variant where you feel it's more competitive. But at the same time don't expect the "default" gameplay to adhere to your desire.

~B.B.


Halo's default was never designed in mind for the competitive crowd, but Halo1 was designed for both the casual AND the competitive crowd. They had gametypes that worked well for casual players, and gametypes that worked well for competitive gamers. In Halo2 and 3, they decided to only please the casual gamers. MLG were the ones who tried to design competitive gametypes, but couldn't do it fully, because the game wasn't designed to be played competitively. The beauty of Halo1 was that it could easily transition from a competitive game to a casual game with minor changes. The only possible way that happens is if the game company designs the game with both crowds in mind.

[Edited on 07.15.2008 10:09 AM PDT]

  • 07.15.2008 9:59 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: TheFaze
Why would you tighten the spread on any of those weapons besides the BR? The mauler and the shotgun are supposed to have spread.


Really? Who said? And even if "they" did say, who else is not to say that a burst fire weapon at the same time shouldn't have bullet spread? I can just as easily say that the Battle Rifle absolutely should have bullet spread because it's a burst fire weapon. I can absolutely say that the BR should have spread just as easily as you can say that the shotgun or mauler should have it.

That is how they are coded into the game.

I'm aware. Bullet spread is also how the BR was coded into Halo 3.

The AR is a different story though. It works in its intended range. It even works a little outside of its intended range well. With the BR this is not the case. The BR can barely work in its intended range.

Bull--blam!-. The BR has a tremendous total effective range. You're complaining that it doesn't work as you want it to within what you view is its "intended range". Honestly now with the double melee system I feel that the AR doesn't work well within its intended range. Utilizing the AR at less than 3 WUs will almost always get you either killed or into a double melee. To use the weapon without risking death requires the AR to be used outside of it's 100% effective range. Just like the BR. If you want a 3 kill per clip (3 perfect 4-burst kills) you have to operate the weapon at 12-14 WUs (as I understand the measurements). While this means you might be more at risk of taking damage from a person using the AR, it also means you can kill them quicker and with less shots. Feel like being completely out of the ARs effective range? Be prepared to use more than 4 shots.

Honestly, you have such an elitist attitude because you think you are so right, and during this whole debate all you have done is belittle people and I'm tired of watching it. How you can think it is fair that in a 1v1 with equal skill, distance, etc, that luck is the deciding factor in who wins is beyond me.

Because it happens numerous times with numerous weapons. People get luck kills with grenades, the AR, shotgun, mauler, tons of weapons. Do people with the most "skill" always win? No, of course not. Do the Yankees win the World Series every year? No. Are they arguably the team with the most raw "skill". Probably. At least Steinbreiner would argue that. Do the New England Patriots win every Superbowl when they are arguably the most "skilled" team in the NFL? Nope, because sometimes luck combined with the skill of the other team can lead to a victory. Same thing with Chelsea FC. Same thing with Tiger Woods.

What good people/teams do is that they understand that there will ALWAYS be independent variables that are outside of their control. So they plan accordingly. They make it so they don't go into a scenario where those variables very well could be the determining factor. That's basically what the guy named Shakespeare in this thread has been trying to explain to you. You know that there is a chance outside of around 15 WUs that even with perfect aim on a stationary target you could get a 5-shot instead of a 4-shot. Either close the distance, use a grenade, or a wide variety of other things or be prepared to "roll the dice" with whether or not a random factor goes your way. It's the same way with 2 people standing 5 WUs away from each other firing shotguns at each other. You're obviously operating the weapon at a distance where the bullet spread can play a factor. If you don't want to risk whether or not you live or die based solely upon whether or not you get a good "spread" you better come up with a way to tip the scales in your favor. The same thing is very true in regards to the AR. There are many times I'll be firing at someone at a moderate distance and his clip runs dry while mine kills him with the last few bullets. Guess what, I won because of a random factor. He knew that if he continued to try to use the AR from that distance without attempting to put the battle more in his favor that he could end up losing because of the random nature of the gun.

To me, since you can no longer operate the AR inside a distance where the bullet spread is mitigated because you risk a double melee, it is no longer working at it's "intended range". Now, thanks to the melee "patch" the AR almost has to be utilized at a distance where bullet spread is a factor or you can hope that you don't get into a double melee. So it really is inherently more unfair for the AR because it's a consistent Catch-22. You either run the risk of losing because of a double melee, or you run the risk of losing because of bullet spread.

There is obviously a range where you can consistently 4-shot with the BR where bullet spread is mitigated. That is still far outside of melee range. Honestly, I believe the AR is more "broken" than the BR is.

Oh, and I could not care less about your opinion of my attitude. But thanks for the commentary.

~B.B.

  • 07.15.2008 10:51 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: HaVOk1228
The difference is is that Bungie made those two gametypes for two different crowds. Slayer was designed for the Casual crowd, and Slayer pro was designed for Competitive play. It worked for both. In Halo2 and Halo3, you can have your gametype thats good for casual play, Slayer, but even with all the forging and customizing, you cannot make a game that is as good for competitive play as Halo:CE was. This is where the complaints come from.


Now you're making a subjective argument. It's your opinion that Halo 2 or Halo 3 cannot make a gametype that is as competitive oriented as what was offered in HCE. That's fine, you can make an argument for that, and I might even agree with you on certain points. However, it seems to me that there are both gametypes and organizations that thought that they could make a competitive environment enough to warrant use. If MLG, for example, thought that there was no way to make Halo 2 as good as a competitive environment as HCE offered then I see little reason for them not to use HCE over H2 (aside from the obvious ramifications of not using a game that is easily as marketable). You might feel that HCE offered the best means to create a competitive environment. Others might feel that the damage/shield/speed modifiers and Forge available in H3 offers the best means to create a competitive environment. Again, it's all purely subjective about what your prerogative is. It's all a give and take balancing act because I'm sure that even in HCE there were things that subtracted from the "competitiveness" that they would have changed if they could have.

So when the competitive community talks about "spawning with the Pistol" they don't mean Bungie designed it to start with the Pistol, they meant they could simply switch gametypes and play a gametype with competitive settings in mind, and it worked awesome. From a competitive standpoint, Halo2 and Halo3 were large steps down from Halo: CE.

Again, that's your opinion. I've seen people who said that the ability to change things via Forge has allowed them to create a much more competitive environment. Regardless, the so-called competitive crowd became a smaller and smaller percentage of the Community as the series has progressed. Bungie has acted accordingly while still offering options for the competitive community to work with in their gametypes.

I also have no clue why you feel a need to demean everyone. You aren't more intelligent than everyone here, and stop acting like you are. There is no need for insults. I never insulted you. Not to mention you have no clue how intelligent I am, so you could try to stop making baseless assumptions.

OHHH, like the baseless assumptions you made about me saying that you couldn't play Objective-based games because of my view on what Default Team Slayer was. Or the baseless assumption that I was trying to argue a "value based opinion" about what is the "right or wrong" way to play Halo. Like those kind of baseless assumptions?

I didn't assume anything. You made strawman arguments and I pointed them out as such. You tried to argue a point based upon your failure to understand what I was saying and I pointed it out as such. And there is little doubt in my mind that I'm more intelligent than the majority of the people that have posted in this thread.


Halo's default was never designed in mind for the competitive crowd, but Halo1 was designed for both the casual AND the competitive crowd. They had gametypes that worked well for casual players, and gametypes that worked well for competitive gamers. In Halo2 and 3, they decided to only please the casual gamers. MLG were the ones who tried to design competitive gametypes, but couldn't do it fully, because the game wasn't designed to be played competitively. The beauty of Halo1 was that it could easily transition from a competitive game to a casual game with minor changes. The only possible way that happens is if the game company designs the game with both crowds in mind.


And again, it's your opinion that H2 or H3 doesn't offer the same ability to craft as competitive environment as HCE did. It's purely subjective. You cannot honestly believe that Bungie only made Halo 2 or Halo 3 with the casual gamer in mind. If that were true there wouldn't be a BR or Sniper rifles right? Because casual gamers only use "spray and pray" weapons right? Actually, that's not fair and is a strawman in itself. You can try to make the argument that the competitive presence in H2 and H3 has gotten smaller in regards to HCE. You can also make the argument that the percentage of the population that "competitive gamers" in the overall Halo Community makes has gotten smaller as well. It seems to me that Bungie became more responsive to the various portions of their community and started crafting their game in order to respond to that.

~B.B.

  • 07.15.2008 11:14 AM PDT

Your mother is a very handsome man.

if people are so worried about the random spread, move in closer
or dont use the gun at all
the BR is still my favourite gun, and it always will be
and another thing, go and take a rifle that fires full sized rounds
fire in a 3 shot burst. then tell me if there is spread.

[Edited on 07.15.2008 11:45 AM PDT]

  • 07.15.2008 11:41 AM PDT
  • gamertag: iFazey
  • user homepage:

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: TheFaze
Why would you tighten the spread on any of those weapons besides the BR? The mauler and the shotgun are supposed to have spread.


Really? Who said? And even if "they" did say, who else is not to say that a burst fire weapon at the same time shouldn't have bullet spread? I can just as easily say that the Battle Rifle absolutely should have bullet spread because it's a burst fire weapon. I can absolutely say that the BR should have spread just as easily as you can say that the shotgun or mauler should have it.

That is how they are coded into the game.

I'm aware. Bullet spread is also how the BR was coded into Halo 3.

The AR is a different story though. It works in its intended range. It even works a little outside of its intended range well. With the BR this is not the case. The BR can barely work in its intended range.

Bull--blam!-. The BR has a tremendous total effective range. You're complaining that it doesn't work as you want it to within what you view is its "intended range". Honestly now with the double melee system I feel that the AR doesn't work well within its intended range. Utilizing the AR at less than 3 WUs will almost always get you either killed or into a double melee. To use the weapon without risking death requires the AR to be used outside of it's 100% effective range. Just like the BR. If you want a 3 kill per clip (3 perfect 4-burst kills) you have to operate the weapon at 12-14 WUs (as I understand the measurements). While this means you might be more at risk of taking damage from a person using the AR, it also means you can kill them quicker and with less shots. Feel like being completely out of the ARs effective range? Be prepared to use more than 4 shots.

Honestly, you have such an elitist attitude because you think you are so right, and during this whole debate all you have done is belittle people and I'm tired of watching it. How you can think it is fair that in a 1v1 with equal skill, distance, etc, that luck is the deciding factor in who wins is beyond me.

Because it happens numerous times with numerous weapons. People get luck kills with grenades, the AR, shotgun, mauler, tons of weapons. Do people with the most "skill" always win? No, of course not. Do the Yankees win the World Series every year? No. Are they arguably the team with the most raw "skill". Probably. At least Steinbreiner would argue that. Do the New England Patriots win every Superbowl when they are arguably the most "skilled" team in the NFL? Nope, because sometimes luck combined with the skill of the other team can lead to a victory. Same thing with Chelsea FC. Same thing with Tiger Woods.

What good people/teams do is that they understand that there will ALWAYS be independent variables that are outside of their control. So they plan accordingly. They make it so they don't go into a scenario where those variables very well could be the determining factor. That's basically what the guy named Shakespeare in this thread has been trying to explain to you. You know that there is a chance outside of around 15 WUs that even with perfect aim on a stationary target you could get a 5-shot instead of a 4-shot. Either close the distance, use a grenade, or a wide variety of other things or be prepared to "roll the dice" with whether or not a random factor goes your way. It's the same way with 2 people standing 5 WUs away from each other firing shotguns at each other. You're obviously operating the weapon at a distance where the bullet spread can play a factor. If you don't want to risk whether or not you live or die based solely upon whether or not you get a good "spread" you better come up with a way to tip the scales in your favor. The same thing is very true in regards to the AR. There are many times I'll be firing at someone at a moderate distance and his clip runs dry while mine kills him with the last few bullets. Guess what, I won because of a random factor. He knew that if he continued to try to use the AR from that distance without attempting to put the battle more in his favor that he could end up losing because of the random nature of the gun.

To me, since you can no longer operate the AR inside a distance where the bullet spread is mitigated because you risk a double melee, it is no longer working at it's "intended range". Now, thanks to the melee "patch" the AR almost has to be utilized at a distance where bullet spread is a factor or you can hope that you don't get into a double melee. So it really is inherently more unfair for the AR because it's a consistent Catch-22. You either run the risk of losing because of a double melee, or you run the risk of losing because of bullet spread.

There is obviously a range where you can consistently 4-shot with the BR where bullet spread is mitigated. That is still far outside of melee range. Honestly, I believe the AR is more "broken" than the BR is.

Oh, and I could not care less about your opinion of my attitude. But thanks for the commentary.

~B.B.

Wow. Once again I will state what C has already said. The BR is intended to work at 14 WU, But due to the spread it is only consistent at 7 WU. You also seem to keep skimming over the fact that we don't want the spread eliminated. We want it reduced to a constant factor. Please, I would think that someone that thinks they are so intelligent like yourself would be able to read. The BR spread problem has been proven by Dan, and your opinion of him cannot ruin the credibility of the video.

  • 07.15.2008 12:11 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: TheFaze
Wow. Once again I will state what C has already said. The BR is intended to work at 14 WU, But due to the spread it is only consistent at 7 WU. You also seem to keep skimming over the fact that we don't want the spread eliminated. We want it reduced to a constant factor. Please, I would think that someone that thinks they are so intelligent like yourself would be able to read. The BR spread problem has been proven by Dan, and your opinion of him cannot ruin the credibility of the video.


And again, making the spread a constant numerical amount would do little to eliminate the problems you are complaining about. The numerics are only part of the equation. They are a scalar. Unless you are attempting to say that the BR bullet spread should be a constant numerical amount at a constant angle of deviation. Which even then could still produce considerable amount of times where the spread is still the determining factor.

Dan is operating under the assumption that his video accurately displays correct World Units. I've yet to see where "half way across empty Foundry" is considered within the BR's ideal range. You're also assuming that the person firing from halfway across Foundry has perfect aim. Since the aiming is being done by a person, and we are quite literally discussing the importance of fractions of an inch here, you CANNOT assume that when he lines up the BR in that video that it is "perfectly aimed". That part RIGHT THERE single-handedly dismisses his entire "video proof". My opinion of him has nothing to do with that. I didn't even want to argue this point since I feel me criticizing Dan's failed attempt somehow seems like I'm validating it enough to even comment. Dan has always and probably will always run a flawed example and then try to pass it off as "truth".

I ran some mock up testing rather quickly a couple days ago. From what I remember, Jon Cable indicated that the distance between Sniper 2 and Gold 2 on Guardian is around 18WUs. I set up where one player spawned at the edge of Gold 2 (right before you fall towards hammer) and I moved perpendicular to them across the middle circle. It wasn't until I got to the end of the circle almost to Sniper 2/OS that I could no longer 3x4-shot for 5 clips in a row. At this distance it is almost impossible if not impossible to see the "dot" in the reticule indicating aiming at the head even through the scope. At a distance of edge of Gold 2 to OS spawn in Sniper 2 I would occasionally get a 4-shot while mainly getting a 5-shot but I can't assume that I have "perfect aim". While I'm not quite certain the validity of claiming that at 18 WUs you can still 4-shot under the presence of human aiming, I was able to consistently 4-shot for 3 kills (1 clip) from a distance that I would definitely consider "mid-range". It wasn't until I had problems seeing the 'dot' in the scoped reticule that I started to no longer get 4-shot kills.

So, Bungie could be very much right. That "perfectly" aimed shot at 18 WUs can get you a 4-shot kill. Can a human replicate that degree of "perfectly aimed"? I'm starting to doubt that. The math run by Bungie and by other people in the community shows that it is "mathematically" possible to get a consistent 4-shot at 18WUs. Is that practical? Maybe not. However, the distance where I could still get a consistent 3x4-shot kill was still what I would consider "mid-range". So now it really comes down to personal opinion, which is really what it always has been about.

~B.B.

*edit for spelling*

[Edited on 07.15.2008 12:45 PM PDT]

  • 07.15.2008 12:37 PM PDT

I have been participating in the MLG community for about 2 years now. Most of what I see on the forums there is complaints about the BR. I personally don't see it as a huge problem, it seems fine to me. Although, when I saw that the community was upset I was thinking of ways to fix it. One solution I thought of was maybe having a beta for a BR that was more like the Halo 2 BR, and then having a poll on bungie.net or something. I don't know if that would work or not, just an idea. Thats just an idea I had, I don't think the BR needs "fixed".

  • 07.15.2008 12:41 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

"He's already pulled over....he can't pull over any further!" supertroopers

I always wondered why we were not given a single-wield, non-scope pistol that could kill reasonably in short to medium range. Could have made a great secondary to either the BR or AR.

  • 07.15.2008 2:36 PM PDT
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Berserker, you have way too much time, and you define the word arrogant.

On topic (since this thread no longer is), a br fix would be more than welcome as a forge option. I mean, who can really complain about a custom option? The matchmaking fans wouldn't have to worry about thier "balanced" game being thrown out of whack, and MLG players could use the consistant br in custom games.

  • 07.15.2008 2:44 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: stoozer
Berserker, you have way too much time, and you define the word arrogant.


Thanks.

~B.B.

  • 07.15.2008 3:43 PM PDT
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Ok so here's why the Halo 3 BR recieves more complaints firstly its made differently to the H2 BR, don't bring CE into this since CE was perfect in everyway.

1 - no longer an autohit
2 - H3 has Spread its like wtf burst goes around his head
3 - people hate change
4 - HALO 2 and CE was good
5 - CE was BEST

  • 07.15.2008 3:54 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: CARDO 8
I always wondered why we were not given a single-wield, non-scope pistol that could kill reasonably in short to medium range. Could have made a great secondary to either the BR or AR.

There already is a non-scope pistol that can kill reasonably in short to medium ranges. Now, it is both a single and dual-wieldable weapon, however, it is better while being single-wielded. It can make an excellent secondary/primary weapon, but I doubt Bungie would allow us to start with a weapon that requires so much skill, like the Halo:CE pistol. The Magnum is 10 times less frustrating than the BR, because with the BR, if 1 bullet goes spraying off to who knows where, it will cause you to have to make more shots. With the Magnum, if you hit your target, you hit your target. None of this, "oh I hit with 2 of 3 bullets, so I guess I don't get the kill," stuff. Even though the Magnum is random just like all the other weapons, it is more fun to use and a lot less frustrating.

  • 07.15.2008 4:04 PM PDT
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If your tool of destruction in any game is the br, you are a tool.

  • 07.15.2008 9:16 PM PDT

Do you have anything better to do with your time.

  • 07.15.2008 9:59 PM PDT

_____________(._o||_.o._||_.)_II____
|-------------.------------==o==-;-____II___|===============[
|._I__/__/""""/_/`````|._._.|```````````\ \_

snipers ftw

its just how its going to be and if people dont like it then you are just going have to deal with it

  • 07.15.2008 10:08 PM PDT
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Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

The AR and BR both need respected fixes that make it more fair off host. Dropped bullets are much bigger of a problem.

I still find it ridiculous that Bungie ruins the BRs range and decides to make bigger maps. The maps would play much better if you could actually hit people from a reasonable distance. The way Halo 3 designed should warrant many smaller maps, but there is one even reasonably small map. It's ridiculous. The guns effective range needs to be the red reticle range for the bigger maps to play well. In Red Reticle, if you have perfect Aim, the spread should be a non-factor, but out of that range, the spread should be a factor. Either change it so the spread is a non-factor in red reticle for all guns or change the red reticle range to fit the consistent range of the guns and make smaller maps to fit the game. I just don't understand the deceptive design decisions and map size decisions.

  • 07.15.2008 11:24 PM PDT
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I really hate people who talk trash about the BR. It is very accurate and has a pretty long ranged shot. Plus it has a very sweet sweep shot which can take out like 3 people at once if they have a low shield. So I pretty much laugh at all you AR noobs.

  • 07.15.2008 11:32 PM PDT
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B.R is the best gun on halo 3. the design is perfect and halo 3 members who diss it just cant use it...use your AR and leave the BR out of it.... or camp with your shot guns!!!

  • 07.16.2008 2:21 AM PDT
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BesrkerBarage

Why are you arguing with Havok, he is perfectly correct. Halo 2 and 3 were designed around the casual player. Halo CE had much less reticule magnetism, it did not have overpowered medium range weapons, nor did it have such a mass of weapons that it was impossible to achieve balance.

Halo 2 had hit scan weapons and lots of reticule magnetism, 4 shot BR kills did not even require the reticule to be aimed accurately it could be to the side of the target and all 3 bullets would still register. Most weapons in the game operated in a similar manner lets not even start on the plasma pistol.

Now in Halo 3 more aiming skill is required as weapons are not hit scan and leading is required. However, there is still more magnetism than Halo CE, especially with the AR it would be harder to miss a target than hit it. The balance of skilled weapons against non-skilled weapons favours the non-skilled weapons, this was the other way round in CE. Yes you don't have to use the AR but in comes the topic we are supposed to be discussing; the BR has a random spread so luck will likely be a factor in a lot of encounters. I fail to see why you will not acknowledge that this takes away from the competitive merit of the game. Please stop talking about overcoming the random factor with alternative tactics that is completely irrelevant to the dicussion. Anyone bringing realism into the argument, the game is clearly not based on reality and fairness should be prioritised over the realistic properties of a weapon, realism is a poor argument.

Bungie have created what they consider to be a fair balance and state they have no intention to alter the BR. The request I would make is that Bungie provide an alternative BR for custom game/MLG use. Instead of a tightened spread I believe true accuracy should be implemented ie zero spread. I believe this would add greatly to the competitive merit of the game and make encounters as skill based as possible. I do not see why this would be a problem as only those that want to use this would use it and it would not affect the casual gamer.

  • 07.16.2008 6:08 AM PDT