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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

What a shame. After all the effort I put into that double-post, Berserka completely missed it. Or chose not to rebut it.

  • 07.23.2008 10:46 PM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Oh and BannedPotatoLive, I never once suggested that since my opinion is in the majority or the fact that people like my opinion makes it "right". Those are 2 awfully bad fallacies, but I'm sure you knew that. If you were trying to suggest that I was making those claims in order to discredit what I've said...guess what....that would be a strawman. You said my "elitist attitude" was a problem. I pointed out that quite a few people like "my elitist attitude".

~B.B.


... excuse me?

Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
And apparently many others do aswell (have a problem with the BR in H3).


Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Yes, and what do we like to call those people? The minority.


What exactly were you implying there BB?

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
If you were trying to suggest that I was making those claims in order to discredit what I've said...guess what....that would be a strawman.


No actually, I wasn't. Guess what Berserka.... that was a gross assumpion.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
You said my "elitist attitude" was a problem. I pointed out that quite a few people like "my elitist attitude".


And I pointed out that just because a few people like "your elitist attitude", doesn't mean it is necessarily good to have one.

  • 07.23.2008 10:58 PM PDT

How pathetic are bungie if they do not alter the BR when id say over half the community are dissapointed with it, and them, shows how much they care.

I know, spend all your time just copying previous maps which dont do the previous map justice, and wernt great to start with!

Or i know! new armour permutations! thats what we all want

/wrong

Fix the BR morons

  • 07.24.2008 4:37 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: TehAttak
That's the story, really. We feel the BR's range is just too short because the spread is too much. That's it. Less spread. No doubleshots, no BxR, no hitscan. All we want.

Also, yes, the BR still can get kills, this is true. We just want it to be better, more consistent in doing so. Just like the mêlée was patched: it functioned before, it was better after it was patched.


Even with the melee patch it seems that people still aren't content. I've seen and heard numerous complaints about how the melee patch was a mistake and that it has seriously altered and negated gameplay. I've also seen argument (which I agree with) that the melee fix has made the AR ineffective at its intended range. You cannot use the AR in its intended range without now coupling it with a melee. Which will produce very bad results more often than not. So it forces the AR to be used outside of a range where it will be 100% effective in order to not have to worry about a "double melee". Bad patch IMO.

And I've mentioned countless times before, however not to you directly TehAttak, reducing the numerics of the BR spread would do little to solve the problem you are expressing. As you probably well know that the numerics expressed on only a scalar principle of bullet spread. Those numbers only represent the amount of variance the spread will have from the center of the reticle. It does not however indicate or show the direction of variance. So while lessening the spread will theoretically improve the BR's range on a stationary target, it will have little effect on people who are moving. If someone is strafing to the left and the bullet spread goes to the right of the reticle, you'll still miss, regardless if it was .38 or .30.

Oh, and BannedPotatoLive, if there was anything of worth instead of pointless trolling in that 2-page reply, I might have actually replied to it.

As to the whole "minority" thing. I didn't say that since they were the minority they were wrong because of it. A lot of what the "minority" is saying is wrong. However, I was saying that "fixing" something for the minority over the majority makes little sense. Which is why Bungie has said countless times that they have absolutely NO intention of changing the aspects of the H3 BR.

~B.B.

  • 07.24.2008 7:30 AM PDT
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i believe taht in 99% chances i can br people i hate the halo 2 br because it can be used for cheating as in double shooting bxr etc. halo 3 is better then the h2br because its fair

  • 07.24.2008 11:22 AM PDT

Posted by: Captain K Mart
xbox.com shall never die!

___________________

And so it never died.

I don't see what's wrong with the BR, nor anyone complaining about it.. If you look at my career stats you can see I'm a BR fanatic :P

  • 07.24.2008 12:10 PM PDT
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Whats wrong with the BR?

  • 07.24.2008 12:21 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Dylan214
I don't see what's wrong with the BR, nor anyone complaining about it.. If you look at my career stats you can see I'm a BR fanatic :P

I can guarantee you that all who are unhappy with the current BR, have BR as their ToD. I also doubt you have the experience to have an opinion about the BR, and am willing to bet Halo 3 is your first Halo game.

I DO have a suggestion for you, though. Learn how to use the AR, so you can get your K/D ratio up. I know BR is a fun weapon to use, but overusing it can get you dead.

Sorry if my observations are completely wrong, and I had no intentions of making you or any other person feel bad.

[Edited on 07.24.2008 12:46 PM PDT]

  • 07.24.2008 12:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: Dylan214
I don't see what's wrong with the BR, nor anyone complaining about it.. If you look at my career stats you can see I'm a BR fanatic :P

I can guarantee you that all who are unhappy with the current BR, have BR as their ToD. I also doubt you have the experience to have an opinion about the BR, and am willing to bet Halo 3 is your first Halo game.

I DO have a suggestion for you, though. Learn how to use the AR, so you can get your K/D ratio up. I know BR is a fun weapon to use, but overusing it can get you dead.

Sorry if my obversations are completely wrong, and I had no intentions of making you or any other person feel bad.

i can right a 10 page paper explaining about everything wrong u just stated

  • 07.24.2008 12:28 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Even with the melee patch it seems that people still aren't content. I've seen and heard numerous complaints about how the melee patch was a mistake and that it has seriously altered and negated gameplay. I've also seen argument (which I agree with) that the melee fix has made the AR ineffective at its intended range. You cannot use the AR in its intended range without now coupling it with a melee. Which will produce very bad results more often than not. So it forces the AR to be used outside of a range where it will be 100% effective in order to not have to worry about a "double melee". Bad patch IMO.

~B.B.

I am one of the people who you are referring to, who aren't content with the patch. Before the patch it seemed I won most of my beatdown battles, because I would shoot more therefore winning my fight. Now, it seems you can have all the advantages and still die. Maybe that's a good thing, because it gives you a chance to fight back when you are at a disadvantage. With the new patch, I actually see the beatdown as a death trap. I don't even go in for beatdowns anymore, unless I feel it's necessary. Since few people have mastered the AR, I feel much more confident that I can just outshoot people. I don't necessarily like it cause the beatdown seems more overpowered now, but it does add more strategy to the game which can be a good thing.




[Edited on 07.24.2008 12:32 PM PDT]

  • 07.24.2008 12:32 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Ninja is Bosss
Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: Dylan214
I don't see what's wrong with the BR, nor anyone complaining about it.. If you look at my career stats you can see I'm a BR fanatic :P

I can guarantee you that all who are unhappy with the current BR, have BR as their ToD. I also doubt you have the experience to have an opinion about the BR, and am willing to bet Halo 3 is your first Halo game.

I DO have a suggestion for you, though. Learn how to use the AR, so you can get your K/D ratio up. I know BR is a fun weapon to use, but overusing it can get you dead.

Sorry if my observations are completely wrong, and I had no intentions of making you or any other person feel bad.

i can right a 10 page paper explaining about everything wrong u just stated

I want that on my desk first thing tomorrow morning.

It was only an opinionated observation.

[Edited on 07.24.2008 12:52 PM PDT]

  • 07.24.2008 12:42 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Even with the melee patch it seems that people still aren't content. I've seen and heard numerous complaints about how the melee patch was a mistake and that it has seriously altered and negated gameplay. I've also seen argument (which I agree with) that the melee fix has made the AR ineffective at its intended range. You cannot use the AR in its intended range without now coupling it with a melee. Which will produce very bad results more often than not. So it forces the AR to be used outside of a range where it will be 100% effective in order to not have to worry about a "double melee". Bad patch IMO.

~B.B.

I am one of the people who you are referring to, who aren't content with the patch. Before the patch it seemed I won most of my beatdown battles, because I would shoot more therefore winning my fight. Now, it seems you can have all the advantages and still die. Maybe that's a good thing, because it gives you a chance to fight back when you are at a disadvantage. With the new patch, I actually see the beatdown as a death trap. I don't even go in for beatdowns anymore, unless I feel it's necessary. Since few people have mastered the AR, I feel much more confident that I can just outshoot people. I don't necessarily like it cause the beatdown seems more overpowered now, but it does add more strategy to the game which can be a good thing.


Achilles hates the melee patch. He said he was going to make a video about how truly bad it has become. I played about 7 games with him last night and almost every game he reiterated his hatred for the melee patch.

Get ready for it Jiggly...but I absolutely agree with you on the AR. And how you use the AR I do as well. Most people assume it's going to be "hold RT, run at opponent, push B" and it's very easy to take advantage of that. I will very rarely ever melee with the AR and if I'm using the AR, I will hardly ever use it within melee range (which is quite a ways away because of the "melee lunge"). The only time I will actually melee with the AR is when I know I'm beat so I can ensure a "double melee". This is obviously broken. I can negate almost all disadvantage in an AR encounter by just going for a "double melee". That simply shouldn't be the case.

One thing you said struck me as a surprise though:

Now, it seems you can have all the advantages and still die. Maybe that's a good thing, because it gives you a chance to fight back when you are at a disadvantage.

I'm surprised someone that wants the BR spread fixed or changed would say something like this because that argument can be used as to why the BR has a spread. You can have all the advantage in a BR battle and if your aim conflicts with the spread, you can still die. Granted you don't like how the melee patch worked out, but it seems you're somewhat willing to tolerate that when the BR spread essentially does part of what you described.

~B.B.

  • 07.24.2008 1:05 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Now, it seems you can have all the advantages and still die. Maybe that's a good thing, because it gives you a chance to fight back when you are at a disadvantage.


I'm surprised someone that wants the BR spread fixed or changed would say something like this because that argument can be used as to why the BR has a spread. You can have all the advantage in a BR battle and if your aim conflicts with the spread, you can still die. Granted you don't like how the melee patch worked out, but it seems you're somewhat willing to tolerate that when the BR spread essentially does part of what you described.

~B.B.

Hmmmm. That IS wierd. I don't completely agree that it should be that way. However, in Halo:CE you were given the chance to fight in any situation with the Pistol. I think Halo 3 BR does not give you that same ability as the Pistol did. Also, the beatdown requires little aim and you just push a button, and the BR requires much aim and timing. The BR has a skill gap and the beatdown does not. So, you really can't compare the current beatdown to the current BR. I really don't know where I'm going with this, but nice observation of what I said. I've never really thought about it like that.

  • 07.24.2008 1:30 PM PDT
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/````````````````````````````````\.....\`````````/
|...../ ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` `\......|.......-------
|..../....../```\......../```\.......\....|..........| |
|...|......|......|......|......|.......|...|..........| |
|...|.......\,,,,/........\,,,,/........|...|..........| |
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Posted by: Achronos
Due to the incessant amount of spam and repeat posting about the topic of the design of the Battle Rifle in Halo 3, all threads about it will be locked on sight and the author warned (then banned if they keep doing it). Please discuss the BR and your thoughts in this thread and this thread alone.

For reference, Bungie's response to all comments and complaints about the design of the Battle Rifle can be found in the weekly update for June 20th, 2008.

People expecting further Bungie responses on the issue are likely to be disappointed.



i love you

  • 07.24.2008 1:31 PM PDT
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why do people always have to complain about things

  • 07.24.2008 2:04 PM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Oh, and BannedPotatoLive, if there was anything of worth instead of pointless trolling in that 2-page reply, I might have actually replied to it.


Oh but there WAS, dear BB! I countered all the points that you posted prior, yet you chose to ignore it! Can't say I'm surprised, it isn't the first time you have ignored mine (and others) arguments and rebuttals.

  • 07.24.2008 7:19 PM PDT
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If cats land on their feet and toast lands butter-side-down, what happens if you strap a piece of toast to the back of a cat and drop it?

All this talk about bullet spread is getting to me. People who want to change the BR seem to want to eliminate/reduce the BR spread. Essentially, the bullets would travel with infinite velocity and zero spread.

So the BR would behave like a lazer? Imagine if more weapons used this Infinite velocity/zero spread rule. Take the plasma rifle. If it behaved in this manner, people could be sniped across the map, with plasma rifles.

One more example. What if the AR fired bullets with infinite velocity and zero spread? Just think about it.

So let's assume that you (who is reading this) agrees that some weapons MUST have spread and less than infinite velocity to achieve balance (and fun). The AR's wide spread makes it useful at closer ranges because you don't have to aim perfectly at the person. If you aim close, you can manage to land several shots on your opponent. The ARs spread gives this weapon its uses. It becomes useful between 1-5 WU and increasingly useless the farther you go from that ideal range. The BR becomes more useful between 7-15 WU. And the sniper/lazer cover 18+ WU.

Bungie created these weapons with different spreads and velocities to create balance.

Someone used the example that 2 equally skilled players firing at each other inside a perfectly flat box. One of those players (could) die because of a random number (BR spread). But those conditions will almost NEVER occur. More often than not, player skill (under good network conditions) will be the determining factor.

I think so many more factors contribute to the halo equation than BR spread. Networking conditions will contribute to more illegitimate deaths than BR spread could ever possibly do. My point is that there are more important things to fix and worry about in Halo than the friggin BR spread.

[Edited on 07.24.2008 7:46 PM PDT]

  • 07.24.2008 7:46 PM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

Need assistance with anything? Shoot me a PM. Duardo's FAQ on User Titles. | A word from 54.

Posted by: waters
I think so many more factors contribute to the halo equation than BR spread. Networking conditions will contribute to more illegitimate deaths than BR spread could ever possibly do. My point is that there are more important things to fix and worry about in Halo than the friggin BR spread.


Yes, there are more 'important' things that need to be fixed in Halo (networking being the number one,) but there is no way to eliminate latency with distance/Live play. So why don't we work on things we CAN fix; BR spread, obscene file shares, etc.

  • 07.24.2008 8:13 PM PDT

"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
-H.P. Lovecraft-

i like the br now cuz its more realistic when shooting someone when their moving back in forth.

  • 07.24.2008 8:22 PM PDT
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im my opinion the BR should be fixed

Now ive heard ppl say that if it is fixed it will make the game unbalanced (Not True)

Personally i think if one gun in the game is Random then All guns in the game should be random ( Which is the opposite of what i want) So to make it balanced they should make em all random.

Also ppl say it makes it realistic (lol)
K a sniper rifle doesnt fire the bullet exactly where it aims
So answer this question
How would you feel if you had a sniper, and u aimed at an enemy (on the head) and it missed completly?
Im guessing most ppl would be pretty pissed. Now put that logic with the BR
I think it is stupid that if a player aims properly and dosesnt get the kill ( due to randomness ) i think its BS


[Edited on 07.24.2008 8:35 PM PDT]

  • 07.24.2008 8:33 PM PDT
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Well, I have to say, the BR is significantly flawed. It is random, and as such, is not a very usable weapon. Now Bungie says: Its random for everyone, which makes it the same for everyone. That makes no sense, if it is random for everyone, then luck becomes the deciding factor and skillful aiming is not rewarded with a kill.

Bungie misinterpreted what the MLG community wants. We do not want button glitchs. We dont want the BR to be a hitscan weapon (leading your shots a bit does in fact increase the skill gap between noobs and pros). We dont want the BR to shoot faster, like it does in Halo 2. We want the BR to be more accurate,and more consistent.

We also dont want our bullets, that we shoot out, to be refunded back into our gun. Now I know some of you, including even Bungie staff, are going to say, oh thats just lag. Well, why would you even allow the game to commence, if it is going to be laggy. It's not like people have fun in laggy games.

And for you people thats say "Oh, its just one or two shots, no big deal". It is really in the grand scheme of things, no big deal. But it is the deciding factor of whether or not I, or anyone else will get a kill. I want to be rewarded for skillful aim, and I want to be sure that I will in fact get a kill for aiming well.

Also fo those of you who say " Well dont use the BR". Even though it has these huge flaws, it is still the most effective mid range weapon in the game, pretty sad eh?

Bungie, your sandbox design is flawed. It is not the way you describe it, and it doesnt make sense the way you decribe it. If there truly was no, one weapon to rule them all, then nobody would pick up other weapons. Also, in fact, a lot fo your weapons are gimmicks and as such, do not get used by most.

Why do you want us to use all weapons anyways? I would never think about picking up any duel weildable weapon, besides the mauler, because they are underpowered and ineffective. On the flip side, people pick these weapons up because thet seem cool, and they're there and they "might as well".

You dont want people using weapons, because "they might as well". You want people to use weapons because they know they are going to consistently get kills with them, and are going to consistently be rewarded for their skill at your game.

Bottom line, I know you dont see the BR as being a problem, but I sure do. It basically ruined Halo 3 for me, because I no longer know whether I am going to for sure get a kill, and the absolute worst part is, there is nothing else to play. I have yet to pick up UT:III, and CoD4 was fun, but it is a joke competitively. Gears of War, has barely anyone playing, and RSV2, even though is fun, just lacks an overall sense of satisfaction out of getting kills.

Halo 3, while can be fun at times, is not the laugh-out-loud joke Bungie made it out to be. I remember a certain Bungie employee, chuckling in a VoD, when he said, "Oh the forge, their going to love the forge, because they can spend hours dropping tanks on each other". I remember thinking at the time, "My god I hope hes joking, because I dont want some piece of crap editor not made for designing maps, but made for stupid things like that".

Who does Bungie think we are. I dont have fun using the Forge for what I want to do with it, because it is so tedious let alone dropping tanks on people. Making maps is hard enough on that extremely touchy editor, and now that I think about it, it was made to be some sort of joke? Wow is all I can say. I can no longer take Bungie seriously as a developer because of what they have done to my beloved Halo franchise.

But what does that mouthful have to do with the BR. Well, since Halo 3 was obviously designed to be a joke, they needed to make the BR function terribly, while maybe not on purpose, they had to do it because if it was any better, it would be unfair for people without one.

Now Bungie says "If you dont like th BR, dont use it". Meanwhile I want them to say " If you dont like being pwned by the BR, pick one up".

Hopefully one day they come to their senses and make some changes to their flawed game. And hopefully buy the time they do I will still be playing Halo 3. Hopefully....






  • 07.24.2008 9:01 PM PDT

t-bagging.........its all in a days work

i don't really think that the br needs changed i think the carbine and the Plasma Pistol if anything need some change to them

  • 07.24.2008 10:36 PM PDT

I been handlin' the game so long my thumbs is bruised.

Ok here's the END ALL to BR realism questions.


Halo 2 BR Shot Grouping before and after Update

M16 grouping at 54 secs.

Go here and at about 54 secs they do a shot grouping test. This is an M16 a weapon that has been used in the US Army since 1960 versus the Russian AK-47. The Ak has nothing to do with my point really but if you look at the shot grouping for an m16 at 200! yards it has a grouping of about 8 inches!!!! Keep in mind this is 200 hundred yards...thats two football field people.

Now tell me the shot grouping from the post update BR from halo2 doesn't look more like what a actual BR should group at from that range, and I'll tell you that you know nothing about guns

Yes it's insanely precise BUT at a range of maybe 75 yards in real world units, and 500 years in the future do you really think engineers won't be able to tighten up a shot spread by a meer 3-4 inches? Cuz I absolutely think that can...and will. We're talking approx. 125 less yards than a gun that was made in the 1960's and it's 500 years in the future of course a gun would have a shot grouping of around 4 inches at that range.

Not to mention the narrator says "it's an easy distance for a decent rifle." So what a lot of people are stating about oh it's more realistic to have a shot spread in a rifle like the BR blah blah blah. I say complete and utter BS. What you're saying is that a gun that was designed in the 50's and put into production in the 60's can have a shot grouping of approx 8 inches at 200 yards and yet the BR which is in use somewhere around the year 2550 can't match/better the accuracy of something that was used in the 1960's? THE BR SPREAD WAS ADDED FOR BALANCE. Nothing else. To answer a lot of people's questions I think the BR spread from the post update Halo2 should be implemented in Halo3...based solely upon this evidence.

The debate on BR spread is dead. It is absolutely flawed.

[Edited on 07.25.2008 1:12 AM PDT]

  • 07.25.2008 1:10 AM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: bigmak45
Ok here's the END ALL to BR realism questions.


Halo 2 BR Shot Grouping before and after Update

M16 grouping at 54 secs.

Go here and at about 54 secs they do a shot grouping test. This is an M16 a weapon that has been used in the US Army since 1960 versus the Russian AK-47. The Ak has nothing to do with my point really but if you look at the shot grouping for an m16 at 200! yards it has a grouping of about 8 inches!!!! Keep in mind this is 200 hundred yards...thats two football field people.

Now tell me the shot grouping from the post update BR from halo2 doesn't look more like what a actual BR should group at from that range, and I'll tell you that you know nothing about guns

Yes it's insanely precise BUT at a range of maybe 75 yards in real world units, and 500 years in the future do you really think engineers won't be able to tighten up a shot spread by a meer 3-4 inches? Cuz I absolutely think that can...and will. We're talking approx. 125 less yards than a gun that was made in the 1960's and it's 500 years in the future of course a gun would have a shot grouping of around 4 inches at that range.

Not to mention the narrator says "it's an easy distance for a decent rifle." So what a lot of people are stating about oh it's more realistic to have a shot spread in a rifle like the BR blah blah blah. I say complete and utter BS. What you're saying is that a gun that was designed in the 50's and put into production in the 60's can have a shot grouping of approx 8 inches at 200 yards and yet the BR which is in use somewhere around the year 2550 can't match/better the accuracy of something that was used in the 1960's? THE BR SPREAD WAS ADDED FOR BALANCE. Nothing else. To answer a lot of people's questions I think the BR spread from the post update Halo2 should be implemented in Halo3...based solely upon this evidence.

The debate on BR spread is dead. It is absolutely flawed.

I believe that video of the M16 spread at 200yrd was when it was set on semi-auto (one bullet per pull of trigger) and not 3 round burst. We need to see what the spread of a modern military rifle is with a 3 round burst at 100 yards.

Not that i don't agree with the BR having too much of a spread, for a future military rifle. As of now, the Halo 3 BR is comparable to the AK47s sloppy spread.

[Edited on 07.25.2008 1:24 AM PDT]

  • 07.25.2008 1:21 AM PDT

I been handlin' the game so long my thumbs is bruised.

Posted by: MadroKurgan
Posted by: bigmak45
Ok here's the END ALL to BR realism questions.


Halo 2 BR Shot Grouping before and after Update

M16 grouping at 54 secs.

Go here and at about 54 secs they do a shot grouping test. This is an M16 a weapon that has been used in the US Army since 1960 versus the Russian AK-47. The Ak has nothing to do with my point really but if you look at the shot grouping for an m16 at 200! yards it has a grouping of about 8 inches!!!! Keep in mind this is 200 hundred yards...thats two football field people.

Now tell me the shot grouping from the post update BR from halo2 doesn't look more like what a actual BR should group at from that range, and I'll tell you that you know nothing about guns

Yes it's insanely precise BUT at a range of maybe 75 yards in real world units, and 500 years in the future do you really think engineers won't be able to tighten up a shot spread by a meer 3-4 inches? Cuz I absolutely think that can...and will. We're talking approx. 125 less yards than a gun that was made in the 1960's and it's 500 years in the future of course a gun would have a shot grouping of around 4 inches at that range.

Not to mention the narrator says "it's an easy distance for a decent rifle." So what a lot of people are stating about oh it's more realistic to have a shot spread in a rifle like the BR blah blah blah. I say complete and utter BS. What you're saying is that a gun that was designed in the 50's and put into production in the 60's can have a shot grouping of approx 8 inches at 200 yards and yet the BR which is in use somewhere around the year 2550 can't match/better the accuracy of something that was used in the 1960's? THE BR SPREAD WAS ADDED FOR BALANCE. Nothing else. To answer a lot of people's questions I think the BR spread from the post update Halo2 should be implemented in Halo3...based solely upon this evidence.

The debate on BR spread is dead. It is absolutely flawed.

I believe that video of the M16 spread at 200yrd was when it was set on semi-auto (one bullet per pull of trigger) and not 3 round burst. We need to see what the spread of a modern military rifle is with a 3 round burst at 100 yards.

Not that i don't agree with the BR having too much of a spread, for a future military rifle. As of now, the Halo 3 BR is comparable to the AK47s sloppy spread.


You are actually right that was in semi-auto mode...although here's a little better proof.

Russian AN-94 FULL-Auto Shot Grouping at 49 seconds.

I do not know the range on this but it regardless the shot spread is only around 8 inches in FULL auto mode not even 3 round burst.

[Edited on 07.25.2008 1:47 AM PDT]

  • 07.25.2008 1:46 AM PDT