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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
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I have no complaints with the BR, I prefer the Carbine anyway.

  • 07.26.2008 2:11 PM PDT

The Risk Is Worth The Reward.
Cry Havoc And Let Slip The Dogs Of War.

I don't get why everyone is saying the BR sucks. I didn't like to BR when I first started playing Halo I was in love my AR. I have been using the BR more and more and I love it. Its a great weapon to use in a any game. its not overpowred in my eyes. I think you guys have done a great job with the BR. Please don't give in and chance it, the BR is fine and nothing has to be done to it.

  • 07.26.2008 6:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Youtube1812
fix br spread kthxbai

  • 07.26.2008 6:55 PM PDT

3 years and only 1 ban, try harder next time noobs.

it dosent seem that diffrent to me but the skin is better.

  • 07.26.2008 8:30 PM PDT
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If cats land on their feet and toast lands butter-side-down, what happens if you strap a piece of toast to the back of a cat and drop it?

The probably with Bungie tightening the BR spread is that Halo 3 will degenerate into Halo 2 and Halo CE.

In Halo CE, everyone used the pistol, or carried the pistol for their second weapon. It turned the majority of weapon battles into pistol battles.

In Halo 2, the same thing happened with the BR. You see an enemy, an enemy sees you. You both strafe while firing, and then one of you dies. Now that was often fun, but it also got old and made a lot of the encounters taste stale.

In halo 3, the looser BR spread forces people to work as teams to control various weapons. Someone has to snipe/lazer to give your team long distance fire power. The majority uses BR for the mid range combat. One or two use shotgun/AR/mauler for close range encounters.

If the BR spread is tightened, a lot more encounters are going to be the Halo 2 formula of BR-strafe-BR-strafe-someone dies. The looser BR spread forces people to utilize other weapons because the BR isn't ALWAYS the ideal weapon for every situation. The BR fulfills its role by being an excellent mid range weapon with mild usefulness at close and long range. Its all around, but not perfect for every situation (like Halo CE pistol and Halo 2 BR).

If you didn't read all that, here is a summary. The looser BR spread forces people to utilize other weapons, thus creating variety in encounters and more fun as a result.

  • 07.26.2008 11:43 PM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

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Posted by: waters
The probably with Bungie tightening the BR spread is that Halo 3 will degenerate into Halo 2 and Halo CE.

In Halo CE, everyone used the pistol, or carried the pistol for their second weapon. It turned the majority of weapon battles into pistol battles.

In Halo 2, the same thing happened with the BR. You see an enemy, an enemy sees you. You both strafe while firing, and then one of you dies. Now that was often fun, but it also got old and made a lot of the encounters taste stale.

In halo 3, the looser BR spread forces people to work as teams to control various weapons. Someone has to snipe/lazer to give your team long distance fire power. The majority uses BR for the mid range combat. One or two use shotgun/AR/mauler for close range encounters.

If the BR spread is tightened, a lot more encounters are going to be the Halo 2 formula of BR-strafe-BR-strafe-someone dies. The looser BR spread forces people to utilize other weapons because the BR isn't ALWAYS the ideal weapon for every situation. The BR fulfills its role by being an excellent mid range weapon with mild usefulness at close and long range. Its all around, but not perfect for every situation (like Halo CE pistol and Halo 2 BR).

If you didn't read all that, here is a summary. The looser BR spread forces people to utilize other weapons, thus creating variety in encounters and more fun as a result.


Hmm... what version of Halo:CE were you playing? What you describe as happening in Halo Three happened (with me) in H:CE... Prisoner, the snipers and rockets were king; Chill Out, the Shotty and Rocks ruled the day, etc. I'll admit that H2 was mostly BR battles, just because of the insane auto-aim and animation glitches. However, H3 doesn't have to worry about of any of the unpalatable H2 issues: the coding is better, it is not physically possible.

Yes, I agree with the allocation of weapons being better for team-based games. However, the BR the way it is just leaves a hole in range between 12 WU and 30 WU. (End of guaranteed BR kills to sniping effective range.) Yes, the BR is now better suited to ONLY mid-range combat. However, my proposed changes mentioned earlier in this thread would only lengthen the BR's range--the sniper is still king over 30 WU, the AR king inside of 3. That's it.

The BR would not be the amazing reaping machine it was: it would still have spread and would now require headshots to make up for the reduction in spread for maximum efficiency kills.

In summation: Reducing the BR's spread and in turn requiring headshots would not break the balance of the game, nor would it change any dynamic of H3's gameplay much, if at all really.
It's just filling the current gap of range between 12 and 30 WU, which can only be touched by the Sniper, Beam Rifle, and Laser; and not effectively or easily. BR battles are still around, but there is reason to use the AR in beat-down to 30 feet, while the Sniper is still taking heads at 300 feet.

On a side note, is anyone negatively impacted by these proposed changes? I know several people (most siding with Mr. Bauer) that would love these changes. Perhaps they're not the majority; perhaps the majority is apathetic. Help some, hurt few/none. Just my two cents.

[Edited on 07.27.2008 1:08 AM PDT]

  • 07.27.2008 1:07 AM PDT
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People complain about its "Problem."

But its not a problem if its the same for everyone..

  • 07.27.2008 8:15 AM PDT
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No one wants to play a game were the outcome results from randomness, I actualy feel like never playing halo3 again because its the most irritating thing ever trying to play a shooter game when your gun is the biggest pile of wank ever. Which is a shame because I enjoyed playing halo1 and 2.

If yourselves and the bungie fan boys want to flame on how Im an idiot and the BR is perfect because you only use the assualt rifle, at the very minimum an option when creating your own playlist you should be able to change the amount of spread the BR gives its burst.

SAVE HALO3. FIX THE BR.

  • 07.27.2008 8:16 AM PDT

Posted by: Trouter2000
I have no complaints with the BR, I prefer the Carbine anyway.

  • 07.27.2008 8:17 AM PDT
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If you consider slowly killing off your fanbase not a problem because you dont listen to them..

People are simply going to move onto the next game I.E. Gears of War2 is on its way to completely demolishing halo3

  • 07.27.2008 8:22 AM PDT
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"OMG mah bullitz spr34d all ova dah plahce! WEPOWNZ N33D F1XIGN!!!!!111"

People like this should learn to fire a real weapon on automatic. They would then see why the BR has been engineered the way it is.

Firing several bursts of automatic fire in a short space of time with a real smallarm, at a long range target, is a sure-fire way to both announce yourself and to miss the target. Even good marksmen will miss slightly with the second and third round of each burst. Deal with it.

Bullets fired from an automatic weapon WILL NOT hit the same spot every time. Why are you guys complaining? I like it.

Besides, Halo 3 is a game. Just play it.

  • 07.27.2008 12:20 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: FU510N 203
Besides, Halo 3 is a game. Just play it.

Exactly. It is a video game, so why should the guns be similar to realistic guns?

No disrespect, but you are the type of person that wants realism, and Halo has never been realistic (even now). In fact, guns that shoot realistic don't work in Halo, because Masterchief has shields. For example, in COD4 opponents die once you start shooting them or when you get a headshot. In Halo, opponents don't die until the shields are low enough.

Also, you haven't played Halo 3 very much, so I'm willing to bet that you are not the true Halo fan, who has been around since Halo:CE or Halo 2. This could be the very reason why you somehow like bullets not hitting where you aim. I'm not saying that all Halo fans dislike the current BR, because I know of a certain someone on this thread that believes it should be this way and I'm sure there are many others.

Either way, realism is not the reason the BR has such a random spread. It has to do with balancing those who can't aim precision weapons with those who can. People were tired of being defenseless against BR users as they spawned, me included (which is why I hated Bungie for starting us with only SMGs). The problem is not everyone can or wants to use BRs, so a wide spread gives them a chance to run away (or feed the kill to someone else).

All the weapons are random, which tells me that Bungie and many others don't want constant ranges. Most people like variety and this randomness allows for kills to happen from many different ranges. Although this adds some variety, it also adds more frustration to this game, which is why so many people complain. To many, frustration makes the game less fun.

I also want to add that some people are always blaming the random spread for making bullets miss, but sometimes it is actually the "bullet refund" issue. This causes bullets to not register for the off-host. As a result, the host gives you back bullets since they disappeared.

  • 07.27.2008 1:29 PM PDT

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Here's to Halo's Lefties. (not the Jackals, the players!) Check my fileshare, I might be worth your while.Unfrigginbelievable!!! In campaign! check my fileshare!

AR/BR together! Why can' t they just get along?......Well, now I guess its AR and DMR,,,, oh will the flame wars never end?

Red Brute- "It gives you Jetpacks!"

2 cents.

If the BR had its accuracy modified to make it more "rifle" like, then I would believe that the other weapons should be modified in the same way.

Just think how strange the comparison would be if you had a super accurate main rifle vs. the current SMG, Shotgun, AR etc we have. Do you think it would be fair if we had a weapon that was near perfect accurate like in Halo 2 with other weapons, minus the snipers, being hardly accurate.

What if every weapon got an accuarcy boost? would that solve problems? In my opinion no. If there were to be an accuraccy boost for all weapons to make them "realistic" then would not all weapons be grossly the same with respect to close encounters? If we got a BR that was the way it was in H2 we would need modifications on other weapons to give them a fighting chance. An AR would not have as much spread and in a sense become a full automatic version of the current BR, an SMG might become as accurate as a current AR.

I think the reason that most weapons have such quickly degenerating accuracies in terms of distance is because of the playstyle that was intended, a game where everyone is not simply camped back in the level waiting for the enemy to show his head, that's the game for snipers, not people with alleged mid range rifles.

I think that the accuracy for all of the weapons in the game are a scaled down version of what occurs realisticly.

  • 07.27.2008 3:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: Slipknotidge
People complain about its "Problem."

But its not a problem if its the same for everyone..

either u didnt read the update or u dont understand it

  • 07.27.2008 5:09 PM PDT

As I've said before, what you're ignoring is the fact that there IS a range where the BR is a hundred percent accurate. You can debate whether or not that range forces random battles within the context of certain maps, but you can't say that you can't make a strategic choice to engage or not at a range where you know it will have less accuracy or without backup, which is the same as a basketball player choosing to shoot while flatfooted or drive the lane without another guard to pass off the ball to.

Again, the fact that certain conditions can sometimes occur within a game that introduce an element of randomness does not mean the game is no longer fair or is somehow reduced to chance.

  • 07.27.2008 7:48 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: M3CH4 N1NJ4
2 cents.

If the BR had its accuracy modified to make it more "rifle" like, then I would believe that the other weapons should be modified in the same way.

Just think how strange the comparison would be if you had a super accurate main rifle vs. the current SMG, Shotgun, AR etc we have. Do you think it would be fair if we had a weapon that was near perfect accurate like in Halo 2 with other weapons, minus the snipers, being hardly accurate.

What if every weapon got an accuarcy boost? would that solve problems? In my opinion no. If there were to be an accuraccy boost for all weapons to make them "realistic" then would not all weapons be grossly the same with respect to close encounters? If we got a BR that was the way it was in H2 we would need modifications on other weapons to give them a fighting chance. An AR would not have as much spread and in a sense become a full automatic version of the current BR, an SMG might become as accurate as a current AR.

I think the reason that most weapons have such quickly degenerating accuracies in terms of distance is because of the playstyle that was intended, a game where everyone is not simply camped back in the level waiting for the enemy to show his head, that's the game for snipers, not people with alleged mid range rifles.

I think that the accuracy for all of the weapons in the game are a scaled down version of what occurs realisticly.

Why make unskilled weapons, of which require very little aiming, modified to make them more powerful?

Why should skill and aiming precision be punished by making other weapons that require very little skill or aiming precision more powerful?

Tightening the H3 BR spread to that of H2 BR, would just benefit those with aiming skills. What is the problem with that? Shouldn't those who can aim better be more dominate then those who cannot? Why nurf skill bases weapons, or make the non skilled weapons more powerful, to lower the skill gap?

[Edited on 07.27.2008 8:10 PM PDT]

  • 07.27.2008 8:07 PM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

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Posted by: Shakespeare212
As I've said before, what you're ignoring is the fact that there IS a range where the BR is a hundred percent accurate. You can debate whether or not that range forces random battles within the context of certain maps, but you can't say that you can't make a strategic choice to engage or not at a range where you know it will have less accuracy or without backup, which is the same as a basketball player choosing to shoot while flatfooted or drive the lane without another guard to pass off the ball to.

Again, the fact that certain conditions can sometimes occur within a game that introduce an element of randomness does not mean the game is no longer fair or is somehow reduced to chance.


Alright; it's friendly debate time.

The BR is 100% capable of a four-shot inside of about 7 WU... seventy feet is not all that much.

As for the strategic decision, well, if he engages as well, but he gets lucky with his spread and hits where you miss? That's... well... as good as random. Admitted, it's not to a point where it's completely game-breaking, but it would be nice to see a decrease in the spread amounts; just so that within the red reticule (about 25 WU), the spread will not mitigate good aim and will be able to yield consistent four shot kills.

[Edited on 07.27.2008 8:11 PM PDT]

  • 07.27.2008 8:10 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: TehAttak
Posted by: Shakespeare212
As I've said before, what you're ignoring is the fact that there IS a range where the BR is a hundred percent accurate. You can debate whether or not that range forces random battles within the context of certain maps, but you can't say that you can't make a strategic choice to engage or not at a range where you know it will have less accuracy or without backup, which is the same as a basketball player choosing to shoot while flatfooted or drive the lane without another guard to pass off the ball to.

Again, the fact that certain conditions can sometimes occur within a game that introduce an element of randomness does not mean the game is no longer fair or is somehow reduced to chance.


Alright; it's friendly debate time.

The BR is 100% capable of a four-shot inside of about 7 WU... seventy feet is not all that much.

As for the strategic decision, well, if he engages as well, but he gets lucky with his spread and hits where you miss? That's... well... as good as random. Admitted, it's not to a point where it's completely game-breaking, but it would be nice to see a decrease in the spread amounts; just so that within the red reticule (about 25 WU), the spread will not mitigate good aim and will be able to yield consistent four shot kills.


The BR is only capable of 4 burst kills IF you are on LAN or hosting. It is nigh on impossible to 4 burst kill when up to 2/3rds of your BR bullets do not register.

  • 07.27.2008 8:14 PM PDT

Posted by: MadroKurgan

The BR is only capable of 4 burst kills IF you are on LAN or hosting. It is nigh on impossible to 4 burst kill when up to 2/3rds of your BR bullets do not register.



I never seem to have trouble landing my 4 headshot kills online.

  • 07.27.2008 8:22 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: Shakespeare212
As I've said before, what you're ignoring is the fact that there IS a range where the BR is a hundred percent accurate. You can debate whether or not that range forces random battles within the context of certain maps, but you can't say that you can't make a strategic choice to engage or not at a range where you know it will have less accuracy or without backup, which is the same as a basketball player choosing to shoot while flatfooted or drive the lane without another guard to pass off the ball to.

Again, the fact that certain conditions can sometimes occur within a game that introduce an element of randomness does not mean the game is no longer fair or is somehow reduced to chance.

Your basketball analogy is misleading.

A better analogy is comparing the BR to the Basketball.

In Halo 3 the BR is not a reliable weapon. It is a weapon of chance, a role of dice as to whether it will work as intended. Even when you are with in the appropriate range (reticle turns red when scoped or unscoped) you have the randomness of the spread, and the randomness as to whether your bullets will even register.

In basketball your weapon is the ball. If the ball was lopsided, went flat all of a sudden, or grew in size too large to fit through the hoop, then it would be unreliable like the H3 BR. Players could not depend on the basketball to go through the hoop when their aiming is precise.

How is either scenario fair to skilled player?

  • 07.27.2008 8:24 PM PDT

BR is fine just takes skill and patince to use though i would recomend using it mostly in Matchmaking cause Ar i think is better for campain

  • 07.27.2008 8:25 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: Shakespeare212
Posted by: MadroKurgan

The BR is only capable of 4 burst kills IF you are on LAN or hosting. It is nigh on impossible to 4 burst kill when up to 2/3rds of your BR bullets do not register.



I never seem to have trouble landing my 4 headshot kills online.

THEN YOU ARE THE HOST. No wonder you see no problem with it.

  • 07.27.2008 8:25 PM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

Need assistance with anything? Shoot me a PM. Duardo's FAQ on User Titles. | A word from 54.

Posted by: MadroKurgan
The BR is only capable of 4 burst kill IF you are on LAN or hosting. It is nigh on impossible to 4 burst kill when up to 2/3rds of your BR bullets do not register.


Then there's bullet refunding--not just exclusively a BR issue; but still sucks IMO.


But these are just amplifying the BR's overspread...

  • 07.27.2008 8:39 PM PDT

Posted by: TehAttak

Alright; it's friendly debate time.

The BR is 100% capable of a four-shot inside of about 7 WU... seventy feet is not all that much.

As for the strategic decision, well, if he engages as well, but he gets lucky with his spread and hits where you miss? That's... well... as good as random. Admitted, it's not to a point where it's completely game-breaking, but it would be nice to see a decrease in the spread amounts; just so that within the red reticule (about 25 WU), the spread will not mitigate good aim and will be able to yield consistent four shot kills.


I hear you...but again, you can't oblterate the strategic element. The fact remains that if you chose to engage at that range, it wasn't a good strategic choice. Personally, I think that over time one develops a pretty good feel for the effective range of the weapon.

Frankly, it seems to me that if you had extended accuracy the weapon would be too accurate, even on a map like Valhalla, it would be too much of a sniper-level killer. So...7 wu doesn't seem too short to me. I know that's an opinion, but it's in response to your opinion as well.

  • 07.27.2008 8:43 PM PDT

Posted by: MadroKurgan
THEN YOU ARE THE HOST. No wonder you see no problem with it.


So your counter-argument is that I'm always the host? Kind of a weak argument and rather unlikely, don't you think?

I could just as easily say...

"THEN YOU CAN'T HIT THE BROADSIDE OF A BARN. No wonder you have a problem with it."

But where does that get us?

  • 07.27.2008 8:48 PM PDT