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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

Gamertag: xCH1LL W1LLx Old Gamertags: Will gh man WSxW1LLxWS

If they did upgrade it, it would be too powerful anyway! It is my favorite weapon and I also like it the way it is!

  • 07.28.2008 2:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: PeriliousKnight
The only thing I don't like is that
1 headshot + 1 melee = survive with shields down
1 melee + 1 headshot = dead

if 1 + 2 = 3, then 2 + 1 must equal 3 too if you know what I mean


1 + 4 = 5

4 + 1x = 7

7 is your full amount of shields, x is the damage you times when you get a headshot when your oponent has no shields.

x is a situational factor which only comes into play when the you meet the set requirements.

(i.e enemy has no shields, and you do damage by dealing a headshot.

  • 07.28.2008 2:28 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: WS xWILLx WS
If they did upgrade it, it would be too powerful anyway! It is my favorite weapon and I also like it the way it is!

It would only become too powerful depending on how much they change. If they took out the randomness or made it less random, then nothing would change except the range would become constant and the BR would become more consistent. If they changed the MoE of the bullets slightly (thus slightly tightening the spread), then the 4sk range would increase slightly. However, knowing Bungie, they'll over-improve it. So your probably right that Bungie WILL make it too powerful, but slight improvements won't change all that much.

  • 07.28.2008 2:35 PM PDT
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YEAAAA RIGHT!!!!!!! with the update to halo 2 for the br, it made the game soo much better and if they fixed the br in halo 3 it would only make the game better.

  • 07.28.2008 3:48 PM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

Need assistance with anything? Shoot me a PM. Duardo's FAQ on User Titles. | A word from 54.

Alright BB, time to get back into the swing of things.

You say that in H2, you really couldn't fight a BR with anything other than a BR or Sniper. As of now, at, say, 13 WU, you can only fight a BR with another BR, a Carbine, Sniper, Laser, or Beam Rifle if you expect to kill the guy. This is no different than Halo Two. However, at 20 WU, where the spread is so large as of now it's short of a miracle to kill someone in even five shots, you're only going to be using a Sniper, Beam, or a Laser, not in its intended range. This seems to be the exact same thing you noted with Halo Two, just even SHORTER range.

Next thing, you say that changing the BR would promote monotonous gameplay and break weapon balance. I disagree on both points. The BR cannot be used as an end-all be-all weapon anymore; due to the fact an AR or similar gun will own a BR user inside of 5 WU, and a Sniper will have the upper hand upwards of 30 WU. There are, and still would be, safeguards in the BR's design that prevent epic overextension of its range boundaries. On balance, what if I feel H3's weapon balance is suboptimal now, and changing the BR a little will augment that balance? I've already posted my explanation on why I feel like a BR change will help balance...

Onto the 'saying casuals won't notice,' line. I think you slightly misunderstood me. I said most people are apathetic and don't care. Also, if this thread is a reasonable benchmark (and it's all we've got for now,) many people do not notice the current spread, and have expressed indifference towards the gun. Very few have advocated against a change directly. But, I agree, we'll never really know the 'true' feeling of the Unique Users of Halo Three's opinion on the BR. Whatever the Bungie Multiplayer Design Team decides goes, simple enough.

All weapons require skill, true. Some require more skill than others. Glad to see we agree.

Next, the red reticule statement. I find this just fallacious and factually wrong. The Shotgun and Mauler have a VERY short red reticule range (less than .5 WU I'd guess,) but will kill/knock shields out (default rules) inside this range save ≥800 mS latency. The Sword will lunge and kill in one fell swoop if in red reticule 100% of the time (barring collisions with map geometry, etc.) The needler in red reticule will have a large deal of guide on the missiles and will often yield a kill. The AR in red reticule will often kill in less than a clip (especially if you control the recoil and spread, then it's 100% capable of the minimum, sixteen bullet kill.) The BR is the ONLY gun in Halo Three that I have found that when scoped in red reticule, physically will not yield a maximum-efficiency kill because of its design.

Now, Mr. Waters, my changes do indeed maintain balance; people will still be able to three body-shot then headshot for kills. In fact, this approach may be more tactically sound, especially at range, etc. However, my change increases the skill gap so that people who have the SKILL necessary to consistently headshot are rewarded with a kill.

Next note, please note my change (.11º) would put about six inches of move on a bullet at 25 WU (250 feet.) Standoff is easily 55 WU behind base to the other behind base. Heck, not even the Sniper is instantaneous at this range; shots have to be led. So, the BR would have to be led and would spread so much that kills would be unlikely.

Finally, you'd be surprised how many film clips I have of one BR bullet (either missing from spread or refunding) causing a lost kill in maps like Foundry and Guardian. Sometimes, burst five gets me the kill. Sometimes six. Sometimes, I get sniped/he runs away/etc. and I lose a kill I 100% earned, due to something I cannot control at all.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen for the intelligent discourse.

  • 07.28.2008 4:16 PM PDT
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The Br is the best, I love swat and i have come to appreciate the br as my weapon of destruction i mean swat or slayer(Br + sniper) no downside, range accuracy and i really dont think wit the sniper and br i need to make more than one burst so i am good wit it. actually hate the stupid AR dont kno y its default for slayer.

  • 07.28.2008 9:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: Nokterne
Posted by: Achronos
Due to the incessant amount of spam and repeat posting about the topic of the design of the Battle Rifle in Halo 3, all threads about it will be locked on sight and the author warned (then banned if they keep doing it). Please discuss the BR and your thoughts in this thread and this thread alone.

For reference, Bungie's response to all comments and complaints about the design of the Battle Rifle can be found in the weekly update for June 20th, 2008.

People expecting further Bungie responses on the issue are likely to be disappointed.
So, all the well thought out posts and mountains of evidence are now considered spam?

This thread is BS. It's sole purpose is to focus all the BR complaint posts into one place where you guys can ignore them. If you think that your reasons for the spread posted in the update are a satisfactory answer to the many questions and complaints people have concerning the spread, you are mistaken.

What exactly do you guys want on the front page of your forums? All the poorly written Blood Gulch and Recon threads? Or how about that 'Brutes in Matchmaking' thread? I love how you try to keep the forums free of spam, when pretty much every thread created is a useless suggestion that you guys have already stated to be impossible. Why arn't all the armor perm threads locked? You guys have already said that no new ones will be added, and yet people keep making the threads.

Why isn't well written constructive criticism toward the BR spread allowed anymore?



Because most people on these forums lack knowledge of competitive gaming and have never played Halo:CE at a decent level. They want a game they can just pick up an hour a day and be decent at.

I think the BR should be single shot and be more powerful so you can kill someone in three shots.

[Edited on 07.28.2008 10:26 PM PDT]

  • 07.28.2008 10:26 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

I love Halo:CE...

  • 07.28.2008 11:49 PM PDT
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▀▄Halo 2 Strategy complete, Halo 3 Strategy in progress...▄▀
▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀MJOLNIR BATTLE TACTICS▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄

I don't see anything wrong with it really. No complaints. I'll admit, I like halo 2's battle rifle sound better, but other than that, I haven't had any frustration with halo 3's.

  • 07.29.2008 12:03 AM PDT
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Of all the topics that keep springing up the BR ones tend to be the only ones where any thought is put into criticism and often supported by evidence. How or why is it that other reoccuring and mindless topics are tolerated and the BR issue, which is clearly a real concern, pigeon holed into this thread?

I guess they are willing to put up with the countless "Brutes in MM" and "what would you do if Masa Cheef" to keep up the illusion that this game is working the way it is suppose to. Posts regarding the BR and its inherent flaws are the ones that get people to realize and understand how broken H3 really is. To the ones that are focused on the precision aspect of headshotting or the BR in general, it is quite obvious something is truly amiss. Yet Bungie refuses to confirm where all this brokenness is coming from. Questions regarding the netcode, hit registration, lag, and dropped bullets are asked by many consistently yet we have yet to hear anything from the powers that be. All Bungie ever want to talk about is how great their new and overpriced map packs are going to be or the ever boring misadventures of Shishka and his friends at some event which is just a half assed and obvious attempt at promoting a half assed game.

If the transition into babbling mindlessness that BNET underwent post 9/25 is the direction Bungie willingly heads then I am most definately jumping off of this train. I have been lucky enough to have experienced the magic of Bungie prior to 9/25 for several years and will never forget how great they were. It is unfortunate that so many were born into the way things stand today. You nublets really missed out on the greatness that was once BNET.

Although it saddens me at this moment how this game, BNET, cast, crew, and studio ended up, there is greatness looming over the horizon. GOW2 looks to be pretty badass and has me excited for the latter months of 2008. If you thought that alot of people left H3 for COD4 just wait until this EPIC storm hits. The COD4 exodus will seem like a drop in the bucket compared to what lays ahead.......So it is now official Bungie. Pack your -blam!- and get the -blam!- outta my house. You bore me.

[Edited on 07.29.2008 12:14 AM PDT]

  • 07.29.2008 12:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: MadroKurgan
I love Halo:CE...


The campaign?

  • 07.29.2008 12:07 AM PDT

Posted by: g 2the amefreak
Posted by: MadroKurgan
I love Halo:CE...


The campaign?


The incredible multi-player gameplay?

  • 07.29.2008 5:45 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: TehAttak
Alright BB, time to get back into the swing of things.

You say that in H2, you really couldn't fight a BR with anything other than a BR or Sniper. As of now, at, say, 13 WU, you can only fight a BR with another BR, a Carbine, Sniper, Laser, or Beam Rifle if you expect to kill the guy. This is no different than Halo Two. However, at 20 WU, where the spread is so large as of now it's short of a miracle to kill someone in even five shots, you're only going to be using a Sniper, Beam, or a Laser, not in its intended range. This seems to be the exact same thing you noted with Halo Two, just even SHORTER range.


I think you missed what I was trying to say. Probably because I didn't explain it clear enough. In H2, the 100% effective range of the BR was incredible. Especially since it was a hitscan weapon. It made it so that it was easy and some-what safe to just sit at a distance of what would be 20WUs and be able to get consistent 4SKs if you were good. This left many people getting spawn-trapped and then spawn-killed ad naseum . Not exactly my idea of good gameplay. In H3, Bungie has NOT limited the range of the BR, only they have limited the 100% effective range of the BR. You can still kill people at 20WUs. You can. I do it all the time on Valhalla. The thing is, you'll expend a great deal of ammo doing so. I don't 4SK at 20WUs on Valhalla or any other map for that matter. I'm not saying that there isn't a point in range that the only effective counters for the BR are not another BR, Carbine, or Snipers/Splazer. There is. However, this point is far past the area where you can consistently 4SK. Meaning that to kill from this distance takes longer and will often afford a newly spawned player, or a player who cannot fight back a chance to take cover or gain their surroundings. If you want to 4SK in H3, you have to put yourself in a position where you can possibly lose to another weapon, let alone another BR. This, IMO, is better gameplay because it fosters more of a diverse experience than just BR-duels at 20WUs and seeing who could 4SK and who couldn't.

Next thing, you say that changing the BR would promote monotonous gameplay and break weapon balance. I disagree on both points. The BR cannot be used as an end-all be-all weapon anymore; due to the fact an AR or similar gun will own a BR user inside of 5 WU, and a Sniper will have the upper hand upwards of 30 WU. There are, and still would be, safeguards in the BR's design that prevent epic overextension of its range boundaries. On balance, what if I feel H3's weapon balance is suboptimal now, and changing the BR a little will augment that balance? I've already posted my explanation on why I feel like a BR change will help balance...

This really comes down to our opinions of "balance". I feel that the balance of weaponry is fine right now. The BR is a dominant weapon. Which is why it is used more than pretty much any other weapon. Making an already dominant weapon stronger does not make much sense to me in the form of weapon's balance. To me, that would be like suggesting that the rockets kill easier and faster. Again, not my idea of helping weapon's balance.

Onto the 'saying casuals won't notice,' line. I think you slightly misunderstood me. I said most people are apathetic and don't care. Also, if this thread is a reasonable benchmark (and it's all we've got for now,) many people do not notice the current spread, and have expressed indifference towards the gun. Very few have advocated against a change directly. But, I agree, we'll never really know the 'true' feeling of the Unique Users of Halo Three's opinion on the BR. Whatever the Bungie Multiplayer Design Team decides goes, simple enough.

Yes, apathy. It's a wonderful thing. The nice thing about apathy or the 'status quo' is that it really isn't noticed until you piss it off. Case in point: the so-called melee "fix". I was rather apathetic about how the melee worked in H3 when it shipped. Now after the "fix" I think it is one of the BIGGEST mistakes Bungie has ever made. It has harmed gameplay far more than it "fixed" it. I know several others that feel the same way. They were apathetic about the melee system originally and now absolutely HATE this new way.

So what's my point? While many people might be apathetic about the BR and its spread now, changing that system can change many of those people from apathetic to pure unbridled hatred. While there are obviously people on both sides that feel strongly for or against it, when you have a large group of people who at this point don't mind the "status quo" of the BR, changing it is illogical and a very big gamble. You could end up just like the melee "fix" with far more people frustrated with the system than you had originally.

All weapons require skill, true. Some require more skill than others. Glad to see we agree.

That's not quite what I said. I said that some weapons take more of a specific TYPE of skill than others. Like the BR takes more precision aiming skill than the AR does. I find it much harder to kill with the M6G than I do with the BR. Being good with the M6G and getting consistent kills is far more skillful IMO than getting kills with the BR. I think one of the easiest weapons in the game to use is the BR. It is easy to aim and it has an extensive range. My personal opinion, it takes more skill to be a good warthog driver than be a good BR user. Probably because I suck at driving because I use Legacy and I'm fairly decent with a BR.

Next, the red reticule statement. I find this just fallacious and factually wrong. The Shotgun and Mauler have a VERY short red reticule range (less than .5 WU I'd guess,) but will kill/knock shields out (default rules) inside this range save ≥800 mS latency. The Sword will lunge and kill in one fell swoop if in red reticule 100% of the time (barring collisions with map geometry, etc.) The needler in red reticule will have a large deal of guide on the missiles and will often yield a kill. The AR in red reticule will often kill in less than a clip (especially if you control the recoil and spread, then it's 100% capable of the minimum, sixteen bullet kill.) The BR is the ONLY gun in Halo Three that I have found that when scoped in red reticule, physically will not yield a maximum-efficiency kill because of its design.

Ohh, there's one thing I don't like being called, and that's a liar. Go try and use the shotgun on Cold Storage for example. At the end of 'red reticle' for the shotgun (it looks to be around 1.5 to 2 WUs) the shotgun most certainly WILL NOT kill in 1 shot. It won't even kill in 2 shots. It kills in 3. Don't believe me? Go do it yourself. At the end of 'red reticle' for the shotgun 1 shot will only knock off half shield. So the shotgun certainly IS NOT 100% effective within the distance it is 'red reticle'.

Oh, I tried to get a 16-bullet kill with the AR at the point where it is just inside of 'red reticle'. Maybe you are far better than I am, but I couldn't do it. Even when controlling for burst fire. Maybe you have better aim and patience than I do. If you can do it, put it on your file share. Until that point, I'm going to say that from my experience, that even when 'red reticle' the AR certainly IS NOT 100% effective within the distance it is 'red reticle'.

Now these are only the 2 weapons I tried out because you specifically mentioned them. I'm sure I could try out others and find the same thing. Saying that the BR should be 100% effective at a range where it is 'red reticle' while most if not all other weapons aren't the same way is illogical.

I would suggest refraining from saying I'm factually wrong unless you have the facts yourself. Asking for the BR to be 100% effective while it is 'red reticle' while most weapons are in the same boat is illogical. The shotgun takes 2 additional shots even at the distance it's red reticle; it certainly is not 100% effective.

~B.B.

[Edited on 07.29.2008 8:05 AM PDT]

  • 07.29.2008 8:04 AM PDT
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well thats cool and thanks for the info but i would like to battle a bungie team for recon achronos if u see this or any other bungie employee i challenge u to a 4v4 match on guardian with br start someone please reply with message my account is XyxSMI NinjaxyX

  • 07.29.2008 8:20 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: XyxSMI NinjaxyX
well thats cool and thanks for the info but i would like to battle a bungie team for recon achronos if u see this or any other bungie employee i challenge u to a 4v4 match on guardian with br start someone please reply with message my account is XyxSMI NinjaxyX


LOLZ

Thanks for bringing the laughter back to this thread. Welcome to the "NO-RECON" list.

~B.B.

  • 07.29.2008 8:28 AM PDT
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Why are you reading my signature? Who actually opens these things and reads them!

And as always, SEND ME A PM. Please. Or really bad things will happen to you.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: XyxSMI NinjaxyX
well thats cool and thanks for the info but i would like to battle a bungie team for recon achronos if u see this or any other bungie employee i challenge u to a 4v4 match on guardian with br start someone please reply with message my account is XyxSMI NinjaxyX


LOLZ

Thanks for bringing the laughter back to this thread. Welcome to the "NO-RECON" list.

~B.B.

I wouldn't want to go off topic but Beserker is right.

Anyways, I would love to see less BRs on the maps. We don't really need 8 on the pit, we could fill those places with other weapons and treat the BR like a power weapon. I then 3 or 4 on a map would be fine. Either way, with BR starts I wouldn't mind if all the BRs were taken off the map.

  • 07.29.2008 10:12 AM PDT
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I do not see the big deal about the BR as well i personally only use it if i need to get alot of kills snipers and stickys are more fun but if EVERYONE can use the same gun how can anyone complain about it? Just because some people have more skill with it tahn others is just incentive to practice getting 4 shots am i right?

  • 07.29.2008 12:54 PM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

Need assistance with anything? Shoot me a PM. Duardo's FAQ on User Titles. | A word from 54.

Oh boy... I don't want this to turn into a flame-a-thon. So, here we go.

For the comment on 20 WU, yes, your statement on bringing yourself closer to the target to BR better is true; but still, I feel that you can bring yourself close enough that you will be able to five, maybe a lucky four-shot someone off spawn but be invincible to an AR. BR spawns preclude this, but I digress... Also, at 12 or so WU, the most combat is BR vs. BR duels, still... but now, rather than who can 4sK and who can't, it's who can get a tighter spread if skill is roughly equal.

I'll skip the balance statement, just because we've agreed it's an individual opinion. But, yeah, the weapon balance in H3 is fine. I think it can be better though. Skill can be applied the same way. (My BR is good to great, I'd say, but my driving isn't nearly as good. Probably because I spend more time BRing than I do driving 'Hogs.)

Onto apathy. I disagree with you on the whole mêlée fix thing; I think it's better but not ideal...
However, the other nice thing about apathy is if there's a marked change for the better, people will appreciate it. But yeah, it is a gamble the Bungie Multiplayer Design Team is going to have to take; especially after the whole mêlée thing not going over 100% perfectly either.

The shotgun: wow, that red reticule is a LOT farther than I thought. I admit defeat there; I was getting two-to-three shot kills. However, I did manage to get a sixteen-shot kill with an AR at the edge of reticule range. It's film number twelve on my Fileshare. Needlers still home and blow up with eight needles at edge of red-range, sword still lunges at end of red range. So while I am sorry for calling you out on a generalization there by adding one of my own, I'm not quite done yet.

With this new information, I think that the Shotgun, Mauler, and BR are aberrations from the whole, that red reticule is normally the edge of 100% effectiveness. And I'm not giving up on the Shotgun or the Mauler; it may just take a very lucky, once-in-a-blue-moon, no spread for all the buckshot to hit, occasion. Not likely, but possible. The BR is probably that way too when you think about it...

I just had a thought. This will improve all the spreads, reduce them equally and effectively. 110% global damage in a playlist, say, Social Slayer. AR's would take 15 bullets to kill, a BR, eleven. Shotgun and Maulers will need less buckshot to hit, etc., but this would not break the current balance of the game one iota. Bungie can start there on determining what weapons need/don't need a fix without a patch...

[Edited on 07.29.2008 5:20 PM PDT]

  • 07.29.2008 5:15 PM PDT
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Chris King 570
A.K.A JetStreak

I have always been happy enough with the BR. Sure, it may take some getting used to after playing H2 for 2688235235 hours straight, but I think it's fine and really don't see much (if any) of a problem with the spread. Also, as many others here have said, it is how the great B wanted and therefore cannot be 'fixed'

  • 07.29.2008 5:28 PM PDT

Remember Reach

Question for your tests, Attack. Are you shooting at a stationary opponent, on the same box, or did you set up a test with a friend, on LIVE, staying at the edge of red-reticule, while your friend jumped around and dodged? Also, how many tests were performed?

I am not in a position to currently watch the video in question, as my daughter is watching a movie on the TV the Xbox is hooked up to.

I don't put much stock in stationary tests since there will be no reasonable situation during normal gameplay that those situations would happen. They are good for showing static distance, under extremely limited circumstances, but the argument of this thread is how spread is effecting gameplay. Show me a gameplay test, with different friends in various parts of the world to account for various latencies. I will be willing to help, if ever we are on during similar times.

My opinion (we all love that word, don't we?) of the BR is that it functions well on it's own, and functions better when combined with good situational awareness and teamwork.

It seems to me that many arguments for a BR spread reduction cite scenarios where two people of equal skill are dueling. I do not encounter many situations in which me and an opponent see each other at the same time, start shooting at the same time, and there is no available cover nearby, or a teammate for me to ask for assistance.. The maps are just not designed that way. There are always options to the old "stand at equal distance and take each other's bullets" tactic that failed the wars of so long ago.

[Edited on 07.29.2008 6:13 PM PDT]

  • 07.29.2008 5:46 PM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

Need assistance with anything? Shoot me a PM. Duardo's FAQ on User Titles. | A word from 54.

Posted by: SteelWolf2552
Question for your tests, Attack. Are you shooting at a stationary opponent, on the same box, or did you set up a test with a friend, on LIVE, staying at the edge of red-reticule, while your friend jumped around and dodged? Also, how many tests were performed?

I am not in a position to currently watch the video in question, as my daughter is watching a movie on the TV the Xbox is hooked up to.

I don't put much stock in stationary tests since there will be no reasonable situation during normal gameplay that those situations would happen. They are good for showing static distance, under extremely limited circumstances, but the argument of this thread is how spread is effecting gameplay. Show me a gameplay test, with different friends in various parts of the world to account for various latencies. I will be willing to help, if ever we are on during similar times.

My opinion (we all love that word, don't we?) of the BR is that it functions well on it's own, and functions better when combined with good situational awareness and teamwork.

It seems to me that many arguments for a BR spread reduction cite scenarios where two people of equal skill are dueling. I do not encounter many situations in which me and an opponent see each other at the same time, start shooting at the same time, and there is no available cover nearby, or a teammate for me to ask for assistance.. The maps are just not designed that way. There are always options to the old "stand at equal distance and take each other's bullets" tactic that failed the wars of so long ago.


The AR test I did was done local on a stationary target. However, this really isn't about the AR IMO, it's to prove the AR can theoretically get a maximum-efficiency kill at the edge of its red-range.

My opinion has been plastered through this thread: I like the BR, it performs as designed, I just think its effective range needs to be increased by decreasing the spread.

And while your BR duel scenario is rare when its typed like that; the one-versus-one BR scenario is rather frequent, be it with cover, varying distances, etc. But even strafing or what have you, you still aim correctly and one bullet misses because of spread you can't control? I just have an intrinsic problem with that... Especially with the BR, where one bullet can make SUCH a difference...

  • 07.29.2008 6:39 PM PDT

Remember Reach

I have difficulty understanding your stance, Attack, that the uncontrollable spread is a true, hard-as-nails problem. My stance is that it is the nature of the beast.

There is always spread involved with firearms, we both know this. Distance, enemy movement, aim (as well as humidity, wind speed/direction, gravity for real-life instances) are all factors into the equation on where and when to shoot.

I believe that the question should be "how do I mitigate these unknown factors?", rather than "how can BUNGiE fix this?".

It has been stated before that closing to a distance where 4sk's are assured is an easy way to mitigate these factors, but, as I think about this, is that your issue? Is the 4sk distance too close in your opinion? Would you rather be able to get consistent 4sk's at a distance where the only other weapons guaranteed to sufficiently combat you are BR, Carbine, and Sniper?

  • 07.29.2008 7:02 PM PDT
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i don't realy think ther is anything wrong with it
to give enough damage with the BR aim for the head

  • 07.29.2008 9:32 PM PDT
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I don't know exacly why but the BR is my MOST LOVED GUN in halo 2 and 3. *says to self*(br br br br br br br br br br br br br br br)

  • 07.30.2008 2:54 AM PDT

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Posted by: SteelWolf2552
I have difficulty understanding your stance, Attack, that the uncontrollable spread is a true, hard-as-nails problem. My stance is that it is the nature of the beast.

There is always spread involved with firearms, we both know this. Distance, enemy movement, aim (as well as humidity, wind speed/direction, gravity for real-life instances) are all factors into the equation on where and when to shoot.

I believe that the question should be "how do I mitigate these unknown factors?", rather than "how can BUNGiE fix this?".

It has been stated before that closing to a distance where 4sk's are assured is an easy way to mitigate these factors, but, as I think about this, is that your issue? Is the 4sk distance too close in your opinion? Would you rather be able to get consistent 4sk's at a distance where the only other weapons guaranteed to sufficiently combat you are BR, Carbine, and Sniper?


Oh yes, the spread is the nature of the beast... I'm just opposed to the amount of spread on the BR currently, due to factors of realism and IMO, fun gameplay.

However, do realize that even at 7 WU (seventy feet, maximum theoretical distance for a four-shot kill every time,) there are not many weapons that can combat a BR user at all effectively. Only another BR, Carbine, Sniper, Beam Rifle, or Laser can combat at this range (MAYBE a Needler, I'm not exactly sure of its red-range,) the latter three not with much effectiveness at all. So that's already happening is what I deduce from your statement.

  • 07.30.2008 5:12 AM PDT