Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

Fair enough, as heads of the forum and this website you clearly have the right to treat certain topics as you wish. However, I feel that the most unsettling and unpleasant thing about this is the fact that those people who have been "whining" as so many have called it, feel that they are being ignored and that Bungie as a whole feels that their issues are without warrant and unworthy of their time. This is nothing short of frustrating, and as a consumer makes me question putting faith in your company and it's products.

  • 07.01.2008 5:30 PM PDT
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Posted By: Im SteelAssassn
Thanks for choosing to whine over being a productive member of the community and possible element towards advancing Reach.

The Battle Rifle is fine the way it is. If anyone says (whines) otherwise it's because they can't adjust to it. Besides, there are other weapons to be used in Halo 3, god forbid you try using an Assault Rifle or something.

  • 07.01.2008 5:31 PM PDT

I beat down a Scarab.

The BR definitely needs to be returned to normal. I miss the old BR. :(

  • 07.01.2008 5:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: Stouts
Fair enough, as heads of the forum and this website you clearly have the right to treat certain topics as you wish. However, I feel that the most unsettling and unpleasant thing about this is the fact that those people who have been "whining" as so many have called it, feel that they are being ignored and that Bungie as a whole feels that their issues are without warrant and unworthy of their time. This is nothing short of frustrating, and as a consumer makes me question putting faith in your company and it's products.


Thank You, regardless of if we get a BR patch or any fixes in the future for some of the major issues with Halo 3, what you just said is to the point and very accurate. I couldn't agree more.

  • 07.01.2008 5:34 PM PDT

>>.

Halo 3 BR Spread = More Skillz

  • 07.01.2008 5:38 PM PDT
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Dont ghange the BR it is fine the way it is I honestly dont understand why the haten.
Oh yeah and here is a joke thing: I solved the AR BR fights WOOT WOOT

  • 07.01.2008 5:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: SNIPED SNIPER
Halo 3 BR Spread = More Skillz


No...
Halo 3 BR Spread= More Randomness from any distance.

  • 07.01.2008 5:43 PM PDT
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the BR is sweet, you just gotta know how to use it.

  • 07.01.2008 5:46 PM PDT
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A wise man once said...

"Don't worry about it."

Yeah. I just don't care about it enough to worry. :D

  • 07.01.2008 5:47 PM PDT

The Simpsons > Family Guy

i really wish people would stop complaining about the br... at least now they can't post their bs facts about it anymore

  • 07.01.2008 5:49 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: SNIPED SNIPER
Halo 3 BR Spread = More Skillz


Um...the spread is by no means what makes the Halo 3 BR require some skill.
It is the auto-aim and magnetism that makes the Halo 3 BR require some skill.
Unfortunately, the spread makes it so you can aim off to the side and still get a headshot. Also, do you really think it is that hard to 6 shot someone at mid-range. 4 shotting is what requires skill, but Halo 3 doesn't allow that unless it is at closer ranges where the overpowered AR and other beatdown weapons are present.

  • 07.01.2008 5:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: bacon man 20
i really wish people would stop complaining about the br... at least now they can't post their bs facts about it anymore


uh we are, and quite frankly there not BS posts or facts as you put it, nothing said so far that ive read in this thread is complete BS (allot of different opinions which is good).

All except your comment, which i feel is BS :) why did you even post here if you feel the whole topic is BS? Thats why they pinned this topic, so it no longer floods your precious fourm with its uselessness. Run back to your Recon Armor threads and what Armor makes me look cool threads.

Have a Great Day! :)

[Edited on 07.01.2008 5:53 PM PDT]

  • 07.01.2008 5:53 PM PDT
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one: you're disclaiming like none other and its making me laugh.
two: for everyone complaining about the randomness of the br, saying that it brings the aspect of luck to the game, do you not agree that sometimes you're surprised by a particularly effective spray of br bullets? the luck works both ways, yes at different times, but in all, eliminating favoritism and randomness. that is unless you really want to nitpick.

  • 07.01.2008 6:30 PM PDT

-SM

I like the BR spread, it prevents people from getting mowed downed from the other side of the map before they can reach another weapon or cover. The BR spread can be really annoying sometimes, but it makes it fair. You would get more upset by getting spawn killed from the other side of the map than not getting the kill, wouldn't you?

  • 07.01.2008 6:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: Nokterne
Why isn't well written constructive criticism toward the BR spread allowed anymore?
Hey, a straw man within the first two pages of the thread! w00t!


This isn't exactly a Strawman, and I'm surprised you would try to dismiss his question so easily.

You, as a mod, must realize how immature these forums are. With only one thread to talk about the BR --a thread that will almost undoubtedly be filled with the useless spam that characterize these forums, and that's not an insult towards the mods-- any well thought out argument that is completely deserving of its own topic will be limited to a single post in a long thread that nobody will read through. Kids will simply not read it, but hit reply on the first post of this thread and write something like "I <3 BUNGIE!!!!!!!!!! BR IS PERFECT, OMGZ!" or, to be fair, "OMG BR SUX! WTFF," and the post will slide into oblivion.

As my personal contribution to this thread, let me submit: I have never, in my entire gaming lifetime, seen a company as completely and blindly cling to their own vision of their "baby," while ignoring what their community wants. I understand it is a vocal minority, and that is where my argument will be attacked, I'm sure, BUT I would contend that if Bungie were to drop their "every opinion is created equal" attitude, and examine the situation as it truly is, they would realize that the competitive community really does know best. If I may include myself in that, WE play the games the most, WE play the games at their highest level, WE push the in-game limitations to their breaking point, WE have the experience to know what will work and what will not work. It is not arrogance, not hubris, it is simply a valid observation. Why not listen more to those who play the game to its competitive limits, the ones who have been evaluation what works and what doesn't work ever since Halo 1 was released?

EDIT (I decided I had more to add)

If Halo 1 were online-capable, then Bungie would have accomplished all their goals. There would be a huge skill gap, yes, but isn't that what matchmaking and level system keeps in check? And all the weapons (except the needler, ha) would be used. Despite what Bungie has claimed, that the Halo 3 "sandbox" is the most balanced (and I would take it they thought Halo 1 was the least balanced), Halo 1 was the ONLY of the trilogy in which I would use every single weapon on the map. EVERY weapon (again, just ignore the needler, it isn't a gun in 2/3 of Halo) could be used. Plasma pistol, plasma rifle, AR, pistol, sniper, rockets, shotgun, every single weapon had a purpose, and a skilled user would kill any enemy with any one of these. Have I ever picked up a Brute spiker in Halo 3? No.

In ranked Halo 3, I have less than 3% of my kills with an AR.
3 weapons own 75% of all my ranked Halo 3 kills.
In Halo 1, this would NEVER be the case, I don't care what Bungie says about balance.

EDIT 2: One of the 3 weapons comprising that 75% is actually melee, so that shows how unbalanced it all really is.





[Edited on 07.01.2008 7:23 PM PDT]

  • 07.01.2008 6:32 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Spartan Maxwell
I like the BR spread, it prevents people from getting mowed downed from the other side of the map before they can reach another weapon or cover. The BR spread can be really annoying sometimes, but it makes it fair. You would get more upset by getting spawn killed from the other side of the map than not getting the kill, wouldn't you?

I agree that being spawned killed can be annoying, but blame Bungie for that. Everyone should start with the BR so that can't happen. You probably experienced this annoyance from Halo 2, where nearly all the gametypes had you start with a SMG that can only be used at close range. None of these issues were a problem in Halo:CE.

  • 07.01.2008 6:42 PM PDT
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I think its fine.



  • 07.01.2008 6:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Saor
Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: Nokterne
Why isn't well written constructive criticism toward the BR spread allowed anymore?
Hey, a straw man within the first two pages of the thread! w00t!


This isn't exactly a Strawman, and I'm surprised you would try to dismiss his question so easily.

You, as a mod, must realize how immature these forums are. With only one thread to talk about the BR --a thread that will almost undoubtedly be filled with the useless spam that characterize these forums, and that's not an insult towards the mods-- any well thought out argument that is completely deserving of its own topic will be limited to a single post in a long thread that nobody will read through. Kids will simply not read it, but hit reply on the first post of this thread and write something like "I <3 BUNGIE!!!!!!!!!! BR IS PERFECT, OMGZ!" or, to be fair, "OMG BR SUX! WTFF," and the post will slide into oblivion.

As my personal contribution to this thread, let me submit: I have never, in my entire gaming lifetime, seen a company as completely and blindly cling to their own vision of their "baby," while ignoring what their community wants. I understand it is a vocal minority, and that is where my argument will be attacked, I'm sure, BUT I would contend that if Bungie were to drop their "every opinion is created equal" attitude, and examine the situation as it truly is, they would realize that the competitive community really does know best. If I may include myself in that, WE play the games the most, WE play the games at their highest level, WE push the in-game limitations to their breaking point, WE have the experience to know what will work and what will not work. It is not arrogance, not hubris, it is simply a valid observation. Why not listen more to those who play the game to its competitive limits, the ones who have been evaluation what works and what doesn't work ever since Halo 1 was released?

EDIT (I decided I had more to add)

If Halo 1 were online-capable, then Bungie would have accomplished all their goals. There would be a huge skill gap, yes, but isn't that what matchmaking and level system keeps in check? And all the weapons (except the needler, ha) would be used. Despite what Bungie has claimed, that the Halo 3 "sandbox" is the most balanced (and I would take it they thought Halo 1 was the least balanced), Halo 1 was the ONLY of the trilogy in which I would use every single weapon on the map. EVERY weapon (again, just ignore the needler, it isn't a gun in 2/3 of Halo) could be used. Plasma pistol, plasma rifle, AR, pistol, sniper, rockets, shotgun, every single weapon had a purpose, and a skilled user would kill any enemy with any one of these. Have I ever picked up a Brute spiker in Halo 3? No.

In ranked Halo 3, I have less than 3% of my kills with an AR.
3 weapons own 75% of all my ranked Halo 3 kills.
In Halo 1, this would NEVER be the case, I don't care what Bungie says about balance.





The game has been released 8 months ago, count them 8. Between the time of the launch and until about 3 weeks ago, no one complain vocally about there being a problem with the BR's spread or randomness. There have been videos displaying the change in the BR's mechanics, but not so much about it being broken just different.

Until recently a post was made describing the problem related to the BR's spread and randomness, no one really took notice until that post. Now, please get off the bandwagon and stop rehashing every point that has been made over and over again concerning the BR. I will go out on a limb here, but I think its a pretty safe assumption to assume that you didn't even notice these "problems" until someone brought it to your attention. And obviously Bungie didn't take your evaluation into consideration on what works and what doesn't because then you wouldn't be complaining today.


  • 07.01.2008 6:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: dan91bauer
Sure the game works semi-good on LAN for MLG, but for XBL, it's garbage. Most people won't notice it, but if you're a hardcore player that expects your shots to go where you point and shoot....seeing a legitimate 4-shot kill get robbed because 11 out of the 12 bullets only existed from the 4 shots....that's BS in my opinion...bad game design, and bad netcode.


QFT 100%! I now have a new sig.

  • 07.01.2008 6:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: GIR091572
Posted by: mooshmoossh
I like the BR just the way it is.

I really don't see what's wrong with it.

I feel the same way


Me 2

  • 07.01.2008 7:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: Jiggly Luv
Posted by: Spartan Maxwell
I like the BR spread, it prevents people from getting mowed downed from the other side of the map before they can reach another weapon or cover. The BR spread can be really annoying sometimes, but it makes it fair. You would get more upset by getting spawn killed from the other side of the map than not getting the kill, wouldn't you?

I agree that being spawned killed can be annoying, but blame Bungie for that. Everyone should start with the BR so that can't happen. You probably experienced this annoyance from Halo 2, where nearly all the gametypes had you start with a SMG that can only be used at close range. None of these issues were a problem in Halo:CE.

Actually, even though I'm an avid H1 player, you still have spawn killing in H1 due to the fact that you can create random spawns, and those tend to be very close. The thing about these is that it's the person spawning that's doing the killing 70% of the time. It's not awfully unbalanced because the living players should be aware that this could happen, as should the spawning player--the spawning player just tends to have an advantage because the living players don't have eyes in the back of their heads.

All in all, though, H1>H2>H3. Oh, and what about Lukems 1UP article? What was it called again? OH, right: "Broken Halo: Five Ways to Fix Halo 2." Irony? Definitely!

  • 07.01.2008 7:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: SCOTTY OWNS U
For People Whining:

Ok, if you people actually read the entire Weekly Update you would Realize that there is a good reason for Bungie not taking your suggestions and changing back the BR. In Halo 2 the Battle Riffle Would beat out every weapon, because it is good at close range, medium range
and long range. In halo 3 the design team wanted it to be fair, because it was realized in Halo 2 that it is too good. So for halo 3 they wanted things more balanced (in my opinion). So they Gave it less power at long and short range, making it the still the best medium range weapon (my opinion).

This is What I think you should do:

For all of the people that whining they probably want the Halo 2 BR back. And those people who are whining about wanting the Halo 2 BR had to get used to the Halo 2 BR by Playing Halo 2? And Halo 2 and Halo 3 are two Different Games within the same series. You if you are Whining 7bout the BR it is your fault for switching to a new game. If you want the halo 2 BR than play halo 2. It is that simple. And Different games are meant to be different, so they will have differences, the changes in the Battle Riffle are just one of the many changes between the games in the Halo Series. And like any other new game you start playing, you aren't going to be the best at it when you start, so you just have to play Halo 3 with the Battle Riffle at Medium Range the way it is meant to be used in HALO 3, not the way it was used in halo 2. Also like in any other new game you start to play, you have to play and practice to get good at it. The same thing goes for the BR. So just get used to it and practice with it at medium range the way it it said the be used at.

Shorter Version for the People that Still Don't Understand:

The people whining got used to the halo 2 br when they played halo 2 so just get used to the halo 3 br now that you know how to use it. You guys are practically blaming Bungie for making a weapon in the game you play.

Another Argument

They people whining / complaining usually claim to be MLG. If they are MLG they should be able to get a kill with almost any weapon nonetheless. So they should also be able to get a kill with the halo 3 BR. So you are just another poser if you claim to be MLG and are still whining about the halo 3 BR because you cant get a kill with it even though you claim to be MLG.

Another Argument:

Most of the people that also whine about wanting the Halo 2 BR back also say "Bungie Never Takes Suggestions?" Haven't anybody read the Code of Conduct : You have no rights, Play nice. Theres one point of this. But Bungie actually does take suggestions such as. The melee glitch, Griffball Double Exp Weekends, Team Snipers Double Exp Weekends, Bungie.Net Avatars, Bungie.net User Skins, Bungie.net Themes. And many more things that Bungie gets from suggestions.. You guys are too busy wanting an "Ulimate Weapon". Think about that... Now that you know the facts behind the Halo 2 Br you know it is good at any range making it unbeatable. Think of Bungie's Point of View, Somebody is saying. "Can we have the Halo 2 Br back so we can an unbeatable weapon??" Think about it. Now don't tell me that it sounds a little stupid. And Yes They do take suggestions.

Posted by: Timtaztix
I don't want the BR to be accurate I want it to be consistent. Sometimes it shoots differently than an opponent's, and this makes luck a factor. Halo 3 should be about skill, not luck. Don't flame me until you've read everything.

Bungie's excuse for not "fixing" the BR is that they don't want the BR to become the all-powerful Godly weapon that it was in Halo 2.

The BR in Halo 2 was Godly because:
-Button combos
-Tight spread
-The BR was a hitscan weapon
-The BR was extremely consistent

In Halo 3, there are no button combos, there is a huge spread, it is inconsistent, and it is not a hitscan weapon. Obviously, the BR is a lot less effective now than it was in Halo 2.

Bungie apparently thinks that we request the BR to be returned to its former state from Halo 2. No Bungie, not at all. You have misunderstood what the main problem is.

The BR is ridiculously inconsistent

Leave the spread as is, just take away the random tendencies! The problem is that sometimes my BR has an accurate burst, and sometimes it has an inaccurate burst. What if I'm in a 1-on-1 BR fight, and my BR shoots randomly wider and his shoots randomly tighter. My opponent will win the fight not because of his aiming skills, but because his shot more accurately than mine. Even though my reticule was on his head, and his was on mine, I lose the fight because of the random tendencies.

So, in conclusion, I suggest that Bungie removes the random tendencies of the BR's burst. This means that:

-It will still have a wide spread
-It will still not be a hitscan weapon (You must still lead shots)
-Still no button combos
-Consistent! This is the only change...making the burst consistent. This way, the only advantage one player will have over another is skill. Luck should not be a factor in a competitive game.

This way the BR is still not accurate enough to snipe, and not accurate enough to guarantee a perfect 4-shot every time...but it will remain this way for everyone and not just the lucky will win.

If everyone's BR performs the same, every time, even if the spread isn't perfect, it is a balanced weapon. Right now the winner of a BR fight depends on lucky spread, and I want the winner to rely on skill. Not luck.

Post here if you agree with me, and be mature about it. No flaming unless you've read the entire post.


^^^^^

Argument:

In this statement the OP has all of the Halo 2 facts completely correct. But think about it, Yes, it is was completely consistent. And if that is what you are asking for in halo 3 then it would still be the Ultimate weapon. Think about it. What other weapon is completely consistent in Halo 3 Besides the Spartan Laser and Sniper Riffle (Said by Luke)? AR Bullets Fly everywhere. Needlers fly off anywhere, Rockets can be shot off by an explosion, Spikers don't lock on, Shotguns shoot multiple bullets. I really cannot think of another weapon that is completely consistent in hitting all of its shots. I also Think you may be exaggerating when you say ridiculously because if I am correct on my math and I read the many math equations correctly by JonnyOthan then only one one the 3 bullets is going to be inaccurate out of the three. You also talk about a 1 vs 1 BR duel. Think about this situation too. Once again if I am correct on reading the math equations then one out of the three bullets will not hit. So if you think about that there is a 66.7% (Rounded) change that it will be accurate and a 34.3% chance that one bullet out of the 3 will miss. That is not even a 50% chance! Which brings me to the Final facts of this argument that Only two weapons (that I'm 100% sure on) are 100% accurate. So why should the BR? This question brings us the Real Life Sniper vs the Real Life Battle Riffle. In Real life not every BR weapon is going to hit the exact target. A real life Sniper bullet will hit the exact target. So that equation is correct. So what is so what is so bad about a 34.3% chance of having 1 bullet miss when almost every other weapon will do the same or worse. The last thing in this argument, in a 1 on 1 br duel you will most likley to have the same outcome for both players.

(I know I probably got some facts wrong in there but C'mon you gotta admit that is had to argue against!)


Please Don't spam me telling me I don't know what I'm saying.

This is just my opinion on you should look at the BR changes from Halo 2 to Halo 3.


AND. That was just for the People WHINING. Honestly I like the Halo 3 BR better tahn the H2 one.

I know others have my same opinion, My top posts were for Whiners not people with my opinion.



What do you think of my opinion?

And if I have any facts wrong please tell me and I shall fix.

Discuss nicley...


READ MY ENTIRE POST, I'm not complaining.

I am not complaining, I am telling people that do complain how to deal with it and some facts and opinions behind it.



Good Post. Smart ideas. Also. Runny Turd!!!

  • 07.01.2008 7:10 PM PDT

I'm a hero!

I like the BR it fits with the changes

  • 07.01.2008 7:11 PM PDT
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All in all, though, H1>H2>H3. Oh, and what about Lukems 1UP article? What was it called again? OH, right: "Broken Halo: Five Ways to Fix Halo 2." Irony? Definitely!

Hahaha, i remember that article...soooo funny, and ironic at the same time.

  • 07.01.2008 7:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: StateOfTheArtX
The game has been released 8 months ago, count them 8. Between the time of the launch and until about 3 weeks ago, no one complain vocally about there being a problem with the BR's spread or randomness. There have been videos displaying the change in the BR's mechanics, but not so much about it being broken just different.

Until recently a post was made describing the problem related to the BR's spread and randomness, no one really took notice until that post. Now, please get off the bandwagon and stop rehashing every point that has been made over and over again concerning the BR. I will go out on a limb here, but I think its a pretty safe assumption to assume that you didn't even notice these "problems" until someone brought it to your attention. And obviously Bungie didn't take your evaluation into consideration on what works and what doesn't because then you wouldn't be complaining today.




Your first paragraph: Wrong, people have thought the BRs spread was random, and therefore unacceptable, practically since the game came out. Shortly after release, we had videos proving the spread was random. Then we had Bungie confirm it was random. If you don't understand their description of the RNG determining the trajectory of the BR within individual parameters for each bullet, then simply don't bother attacking my correct assertion that the BR is random.

Your second paragraph: Again, it was known for much, much longer than you seem to even be aware of. This controversy has lasted practically since the game was first put on the shelves, and the competitive merit of Halo 3 has been questioned --and with good reason-- since the game was confirmed to be in development. And personally, yes I did notice these problems myself --albeit I noticed the bad spawn system, bad maps, bad melee system, and poor weapon balance long before I knew for a fact that the BR had a random element to it.

Unfortunately, I am one of the few who feel that HALO 3 is MORE competitive than Halo 2. Don't call me a bandwagoner, because I simply am not. I am a consumer who is unsatisfied with a product that I bought. Halo 1 was the most balanced, which somehow through twisted logic is routinely denied or unrecognized, and it's amazing that the steps Bungie has taken to "balance" the game was to complicate it rather than simplify it.

  • 07.01.2008 7:13 PM PDT