Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: MadroKurgan
Why all the hatred and bias towards John Howard? As someone who tries to come across as (o)bjective, you fail hard here.


I think the word you're looking for is "objective". Why do people act like John Howard is the greatest design lead in the history of games? Why does some kid named "Hitzel" keep posting the same hearsay "conversation" with John Howard and we're suppose to act like it makes a damn bit of difference?

Here's the deal with John Howard. If he would have tried to make the subsequent Halo games anywhere near as bad as Shadowrun turned out, I'm very glad he's gone. I loved playing Shadowrun without being able to change my controller setup to Legacy. I love talking to some of the FASA devs and their reason behind not including something as incredibly easy as "Legacy" was, "we didn't think enough people would use it". Yeah, and it takes like 10 minutes to program that. I also loved the campaign of Shadowrun.

I'm also quite aware that FASA didn't file Chapter 7 or 11. They probably should have filed a Chapter 11, but who knows. And FASA was successful with licensing of BattleTech, but I was mainly thinking of Crimson Skies (PC/XB) in the more "recent" past.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage

We see the equipment as taking away from shooting skill and grenade precision, which have always been central to success in competitive Halo.

~B.B.

I agree with them that deployable equipment takes away from shooting skills. But i also feel the same way about any powerups. But the main difference between the two is, there are a lot more power drains and health regens then there are overshields and invis. And they spawn a hell of a lot quicker. Apples to oranges...

Yet, you can assign the speed and quantity via Forge. So, again, John Nelson's point isn't exactly true. Regardless, I've always had problems with John and Kasey, and this is just one example.

~B.B.

[Edited on 07.31.2008 10:50 AM PDT]

  • 07.31.2008 10:49 AM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
I think the word you're looking for is "objective".


objective, subjective... tomato toemato...

i need more caffeine in the morning


Though i do enjoy Halo:CE considerably more then any of the other Halo's, especially the campaign.

I played the shadowrun demo when it first came out... and was not all that impressed with it. But i didn't put that much time into it to really give a solid opinion. Some people swear by it, though.

[Edited on 07.31.2008 11:01 AM PDT]

  • 07.31.2008 10:55 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: MadroKurgan
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
I think the word you're looking for is "objective".


objective, subjective... tomato toemato...

i need more caffeine in the morning

Though i do enjoy Halo:CE considerably more then any of the other Halo's, especially the campaign.

I played the shadowrun demo when it first came out... and was not all that impressed with it. But i didn't put that much time into it to really give a solid opinion. Some people swear by it, though.


I knew what you meant, but I wanted to make sure. Honestly, story-wise, I think HCE campaign wins hands down. But at the same time when Bungie was developing HCE they weren't doing it with having sequels in mind. Now, do I really enjoy the fact that I can romp through H3's campaign with 3 other people? Hell yeah. Especially making it as hard/easy as I want through using skulls? Hell yeah. Do I think that H3's campaign was a good story wise compared to HCE? No.

If you like CS, you'll probably like Shadowrun. I'm pretty sure Bungie even did an interview with John Howard and the other FASA guys and they talked about how Shadowrun is really like CS on steroids with magic. Why I never played it after the first month is because I can't use Legacy in Shadowrun. I'm pretty sure they limit you to either Default or Southpaw. While I can play on Default (which is also how I made it through Biosuck), every once and awhile my brain forgets when I get hurried and I'll end up looking at a wall instead of aiming (since strafe is RS for Legacy).

However, to me, it was like they were developing for that niche "CounterStrike" crowd when they made Shadowrun. Now, that's a good starting point if you want to make that type of game. It's just when the game is $60 and has no story-line campaign, and only ships with 9 levels for MP (I dunno if they added more via DLC; I'd be surprised if they did) I don't think it's going to turn out too well. You're probably not going to get any more people than those that like the CS-ish gameplay. And you're especially not going to get many PC players when they can just play CS and probably like it more.

So really my point is that John Howard certainly is not infallible as some would make him seem. He was lead on a successful game (HCE) and on a very unsuccessful game (SR). Saying he's the defacto "God of Design" isn't right from my viewpoint.

While this is all terribly off-topic for this thread. I think this thread has pretty much run it's course. Bungie (IMO) obviously has no intentions of altering the BR in H3. While TehAttack's suggestions are fine and good (although I think adding extra damage to headshots only strengthens 'host-advantage') from my view of it they won't go farther than this thread. So it seems after 50 pages, we've come full circle.

~B.B.

  • 07.31.2008 11:25 AM PDT

Why not give the option in Forge to make the BR's spread tighter? How hard from a programming view, could that be?

MLGers want a consistent 4 shot BR. Non-MLGers do not. This way, everyone wins.

  • 07.31.2008 12:13 PM PDT
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i like the br how it is

  • 07.31.2008 12:34 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

The reason Shadowrun was a failure wasn't because the gameplay was horrible. It was because all the reviewers were pissed that there was no campaign, so they gave it low scores, so no one bought it.

The problem with Equipment, IMO, is that it respawns so fast that there are like 4 bubble shields at any given time. If they spawned like power weapons and were in contested places, I think equipment would be fine. Like if The Pit had one Power Drainer and that's it that spawns ever 180 seconds.

[Edited on 07.31.2008 4:54 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2008 4:48 PM PDT
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Stop hating on the BR.

It's fine how it is.

  • 07.31.2008 5:39 PM PDT
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I think it's fine as it is aswell

  • 07.31.2008 5:46 PM PDT
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what changed about it?

  • 07.31.2008 5:58 PM PDT

No, it's not fine. I'm so sick of having to shoot someone 4 or 5 times when they have no shield from 10 feet away.

  • 07.31.2008 7:27 PM PDT

It's funny how so many people post in here saying how "the Br is fine - I like the way it is right now". You have never and will never understand why the Br is broken and why it should be fixed. Here's a suggestion - educate yourself (ie. - maybe read that weekly update for starters), understand the design flaw of a multiplayer game being decided by a dice roll rather than precise aim - and then come back and post. See? You can't actually argue for keeping the Br the way it is. It is pure ignorance / arrogance (I hope it's not ignorance - but it really seems like it in a lot of instances with Bungie) that is keeping it from being changed.
The Br spread isn't that bad of an issue - especially on LAN. No one game is really decided by a random bullet spread. More games are decided just by the mere fact that there is almost no skill gap to this game whatsoever because of the pace / flow of the game. And whilst it is important to promote teamwork in games - doing it in this -blam!- manner is unnecessary. However - just the act of Bungie not adhering to its more educated (yes, more vocal, maybe even more whiny) community - the competitive community - is really frustrating. As much as Lukems worded his article on the Br spread well - people can't escape the fact that it was a poor design decision to include randomness to determine the outcome of any single battle.

  • 07.31.2008 7:50 PM PDT
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its supposed to be a 4 shot kill
sometimes it works an most the time your hitting them 5 or 6 times an nothing happens
an they jus need to make it exactly like it was in halo 2 thats all i got to say
halo 2 BR was the best BR
cause you could 4 shot someone across the map jus like its supposed to be

  • 07.31.2008 8:12 PM PDT

What's funny is that most of the people that say the BR is fine and to stop complaining don't even use it.

  • 07.31.2008 8:13 PM PDT

The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it.

Posted by: Jake The Noob
What's funny is that most of the people that say the BR is fine and to stop complaining don't even use it.


And you know this how?

  • 07.31.2008 8:18 PM PDT

Original Recon Owner. Bungie Day most asissts. HaloCharts: Most Ranked Banshee kills.

I think the BR spreads like the words in the Jonas Bros song "Burnin' up"

edit: the beginning of the song because thats all I've heard

P.S. I have 5,555 Ranked BR kills
In your face Tony Shalube

[Edited on 07.31.2008 8:32 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2008 8:31 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: the_overmaster
It's funny how so many people post in here saying how "the Br is fine - I like the way it is right now". You have never and will never understand why the Br is broken and why it should be fixed. Here's a suggestion - educate yourself (ie. - maybe read that weekly update for starters), understand the design flaw of a multiplayer game being decided by a dice roll rather than precise aim - and then come back and post. See? You can't actually argue for keeping the Br the way it is. It is pure ignorance / arrogance (I hope it's not ignorance - but it really seems like it in a lot of instances with Bungie) that is keeping it from being changed.
The Br spread isn't that bad of an issue - especially on LAN. No one game is really decided by a random bullet spread. More games are decided just by the mere fact that there is almost no skill gap to this game whatsoever because of the pace / flow of the game. And whilst it is important to promote teamwork in games - doing it in this -blam!- manner is unnecessary. However - just the act of Bungie not adhering to its more educated (yes, more vocal, maybe even more whiny) community - the competitive community - is really frustrating. As much as Lukems worded his article on the Br spread well - people can't escape the fact that it was a poor design decision to include randomness to determine the outcome of any single battle.


HAHAHA...RIIIGGGHHTT

Halo has always had randomness. Welcome to the realization.

Read my posts. Maybe you'll learn something.

~B.B.

  • 07.31.2008 8:42 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Venator360
Posted by: Jake The Noob
What's funny is that most of the people that say the BR is fine and to stop complaining don't even use it.


And you know this how?


He doesn't. Making stuff up is far easier than actually coming up with a legitimate point.

~B.B.

  • 07.31.2008 8:43 PM PDT
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The problem with discussing the BR is that 90% of players don't play halo competitively - at less than a 45 skill level or not playing MLG customs I wouldn't expect anyone to notice the BR spread, or even to care if they did..

But it is noticable, and their really is no reason for the spread - I've had kills in swat when none of the crosshair is on their body, and missed still people at medium distance. I mean, the spread doesn't help the game, so why is it there?

  • 08.01.2008 12:46 AM PDT
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The BR isnt "Broken" bungie made it and new what they were doing

  • 08.01.2008 1:59 AM PDT

The spread is there for the sake of realism. Bungie can decide what they do, and don't include.

  • 08.01.2008 2:05 AM PDT
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The way I see it is if you can't shoot a BR then you should pick up a BR.

It is possible to 4 shot somebody if you aim it correctly. So what if it takes 5 shots it's only one shot extra that takes no time at all. If people want to quote me saying I'm wrong then they have problems. Halo 3 isn't Halo 2 any more and I think people expect everything to act like it did in Halo 2. All you have to do is adapt and practice in custom games.

That's all I have to say.

  • 08.01.2008 2:39 AM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: LIONSIDE
The way I see it is if you can't shoot a BR then you should pick up a BR.

It is possible to 4 shot somebody if you aim it correctly. So what if it takes 5 shots it's only one shot extra that takes no time at all. If people want to quote me saying I'm wrong then they have problems. Halo 3 isn't Halo 2 any more and I think people expect everything to act like it did in Halo 2. All you have to do is adapt and practice in custom games.

That's all I have to say.

So what if it takes 5, 6 7 or more BR bursts to kill someone at optimal range when it should take 4, when you're aiming is perfect?... that is asinine reasoning.

But i think that has more to do with bullets not registering, rather then the spread. Regardless, both are annoying, albeit the bullet registration a lot more.

[Edited on 08.01.2008 5:40 AM PDT]

  • 08.01.2008 3:34 AM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

Need assistance with anything? Shoot me a PM. Duardo's FAQ on User Titles. | A word from 54.

Posted by: LIONSIDE
The way I see it is if you can't shoot a BR then you should pick up a BR.

It is possible to 4 shot somebody if you aim it correctly. So what if it takes 5 shots it's only one shot extra that takes no time at all. If people want to quote me saying I'm wrong then they have problems. Halo 3 isn't Halo 2 any more and I think people expect everything to act like it did in Halo 2. All you have to do is adapt and practice in custom games.

That's all I have to say.


That's my point; it is not 100% always possible to four-shot someone every time at more than seventy feet, regardless of how dead-centered your aim is. So, now, what happens if I miss a single bullet due to spread on my fourth shot, and my opponent doesn't? That extra bullet for me that I needed to shoot may not take 'much time,' but it still led to my demise.

I understand this isn't H2. This BR is very different; its design is better. The spread is a necessity. However, it's so random it is markedly random; it defies realism when the math is done, and can very easily influence outcomes of duels; just like host. The spread just needs to be less.

Oh, and how do I have a problem with you because I disagree? Expand on that please. And before I get toasted some more; yes, I am good with a BR. I get kills just fine with it...

My two cents are once again in the potluck.

  • 08.01.2008 3:35 AM PDT

Most of you people are crazy. Bungie just needs to stop screwing around with this game. When it was more powerful you still needed skill to use the br, so why not leave the people who can actually shot a br that extra bit of power to kill people. Bungie is turning halo3 into a noob game. There trying to make it so fair on all the noobs that randomly grenade spam every time they see a player instead of shooting them in the head with there br. Bungie needs to re-think its decison on making the br less powerful, because that extra bit of power might just be enough to haul your team over the line. Why dissadvantage the better players because some noobs have a sook about being killed all the time!!

  • 08.01.2008 4:06 AM PDT

Posted by: LIONSIDE
It is possible to 4 shot somebody if you aim it correctly

...at fairly close range and if you are EXTREMELY lucky, you mean.

  • 08.01.2008 5:27 AM PDT