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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: RhythmKiller
Posted by: LIONSIDE
It is possible to 4 shot somebody if you aim it correctly

...at fairly close range and if you are EXTREMELY lucky, you mean.

...if you are host and at medium to close range, you mean.

  • 08.01.2008 5:41 AM PDT

Lol, same thing really.

  • 08.01.2008 5:57 AM PDT

"Death is an inconvenience now.... We are All Dead Men Walking."
"The Sniper Rifle is a Support weapon, your supposed to sneak around with it. Not stand in the open"
"Armor Lock is boss if you know how to use it!"
"I like the idea of a professional troll, though, it makes me think of a hideous creature under a bridge handing out business cards." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw

Igot an Idea for the BR, next Auto Update make the BR single shot. Damage of one round is the equivalent of a 3 round burst.

  • 08.01.2008 10:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: WsP POP TART
Igot an Idea for the BR, next Auto Update make the BR single shot. Damage of one round is the equivalent of a 3 round burst.


Ya that won't make it overpowered at all. Good thinking.

  • 08.01.2008 11:41 AM PDT

"Death is an inconvenience now.... We are All Dead Men Walking."
"The Sniper Rifle is a Support weapon, your supposed to sneak around with it. Not stand in the open"
"Armor Lock is boss if you know how to use it!"
"I like the idea of a professional troll, though, it makes me think of a hideous creature under a bridge handing out business cards." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw

Posted by: i pl3h 4 fun
Posted by: WsP POP TART
Igot an Idea for the BR, next Auto Update make the BR single shot. Damage of one round is the equivalent of a 3 round burst.


Ya that won't make it overpowered at all. Good thinking.


Did I say over powered? No. The BR is prefectly fine along with the AR. If you want a Low powered BR Go play SWAT.

  • 08.01.2008 11:44 AM PDT

When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car.

im pissed that bungie wont be fixing the br in the AU2, there just to ignorant and a bunch of -blam!-s to be honest.

  • 08.01.2008 11:57 AM PDT

make shots register and ill like the game but when i load like my whole clip into a guys head and only 2 shot register im going to stick to call of duty .fu.c.k. halo

  • 08.01.2008 12:26 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: WsP POP TART
Posted by: i pl3h 4 fun
Posted by: WsP POP TART
Igot an Idea for the BR, next Auto Update make the BR single shot. Damage of one round is the equivalent of a 3 round burst.


Ya that won't make it overpowered at all. Good thinking.


Did I say over powered? No. The BR is prefectly fine along with the AR. If you want a Low powered BR Go play SWAT.

The only way a single shot will work is if it shot like the Halo:CE Pistol, which could kill at long range. Even though this is one reason why Halo:CE was fun to me, Bungie and many others don't want a weapon with such a range. In other words, they would feel forced to make it shoot randomly, which means it would shoot similar to the Carbine and won't be very effective against Snipers. That is basically why they made it a 3 bullet burst-fire weapon, so they could control its range and ping Snipers. I'm not quite sure if it would be completely overpowered (because of its range) since you will still have to lead your shots. However, Bungie wants the skill gap to be small so a single shot would increase the skill gap.

[Edited on 08.01.2008 12:28 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2008 12:26 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Jammyd0dger93
im pissed that bungie wont be fixing the br in the AU2, there just to ignorant and a bunch of -blam!-s to be honest.


I'm sure you're going to convince them that way...

Go away.

The BR doesn't need fixed. As we've come to after 50 pages. I really don't see why we need 50 more.

~B.B.

  • 08.01.2008 1:01 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: Jammyd0dger93
im pissed that bungie wont be fixing the br in the AU2, there just to ignorant and a bunch of -blam!-s to be honest.


I'm sure you're going to convince them that way...

Go away.

The BR doesn't need fixed. As we've come to after 50 pages. I really don't see why we need 50 more.

~B.B.

B.B., don't even try to refute that logic. You know you can't. He is an intellectual god compared to your meer, mortal, BR-liking self.

... >_>

  • 08.01.2008 1:19 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Yes, god knows I hate the BR which would explain why I am quickly approaching 20,000 kills with it. I mean, if it weren't soooo broken I'd easily have 8 times that many by now.

~B.B.

  • 08.01.2008 1:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: TehAttak
Well, here's some new math and theories I ran across...

[WALL!]

It has been stated that the Spartan model's head target area is approximately .094 WU across, or about 11.5". Assuming it's a circular target, this means that the radius of the target area is only .047 WU, or slightly less than 6 inches. This means that if your aim is 100% accurate to the center of the head, you are only guaranteed a four-shot kill inside of 7 WU (70 ft.) That is also with 99.99% accuracy (100% being the exact pixel being the center of the head.)

y=dtan(x), where d is distance to target in WU and (x) is bullet deviation in degrees...
.047=7.1tan(.38)


Seventy feet? My paintball gun on full-auto can put down a tighter than six-inch spread at that distance. Also note I am not an expert marksman by any means, heck, my aim's not good at all; nor am I using a hyper-advanced, long-barreled, sighted, burst-fire rifle. Therefore, I agree with the bullet spread being this way for realism is absolute bollocks. Halo Three's primary concern needs to be with fun and fair gameplay, NOT realism.

Also a notable fact is that latency indeed can screw with hits and misses, on top of good old human inaccuracy. As I previously stated, the effective range of the BR is only .75 of it's theoretical machine LAN play; after all, it is humans on LIVE.

Furthermore, at a range of say, 15 WU, if my aim is dead-centered, but causes my last bullet of twelve to miss, but yet, my opponent is NOT dead centered, but the spread takes his inaccuracy and makes it score by sheer luck, something that neither player, nor any amount of tactics and skill can control, results in subprime skill yielding a kill? Really.

That's why I'll make this pitch again... Please decrease the BR's spread to a maximum of .11º off of the aiming vector for all three bullets. Also, please make this spread variation the same for all bullets fired, so that scoped bullets have no less spread on average than unscoped. Finally, please make all headshots incur 50% extra damage to shields per hit, so a three-shot kill is possible with all headshots.

Changing the BR would NOT harm the balance of the game; nor would it impact the 'realism' factor of the game. The bullets still fan out, in fact, these values are MORE realistic considering the type of weapon being used and the distances they're covering. The scoped versus unscoped spreads being the same is more realistic; find me a gun that physically fires more accurately over 10/100/1000 yards not sighted versus sighted (machine fired.) Bullets would still need to be led; that's not changing. The auto-aim and magnetism aren't changing, the game isn't going to be giving you more or less help to hit your shots; hence there's still a large skill gap. There's not going to a button glitch that incurs instant or faster death; that's Halo Two.

Three headshots is much harder to do at close range, meaning certain close-range weapons are going to be even more effective in their intended ranges. The Carbine will now have a unique role: the range between AR and BR. (~5 to ~17 WU.) The Sniper will now have to make longer-range shots to be safe; no more camping at 20 WU and nailing AR spawners (or even BR spawners,) and being almost invincible because their weapons cannot even touch your position with an ounce of accuracy.

Sure, the BR may be better than many weapons in the game. The mêlée feature is too. But that was fixed. Why not the BR? What's wrong with making it more consistent and IMO, better? I understand that those with much more skill will win much more often; but when it's close, it shouldn't come down to only pure luck. Luck can have a place, sure, (hence there's still a spread,) but luck shouldn't be such a end-all be-all answer.

For certain, competitive people, the current set-up has a negative effect on gameplay. For those of you who say it's fine, or you don't notice it, or don't care; why do you have an impetus on its changing? You're not likely to notice or care either way.

PS: I encourage any Bungie employee to contact me privately and discuss BR specifications and why you or your organization prefer whatever design and why, etc., either via. PM or some other communications method.

[/wall]

I appreciate your reading this. Cookies are down the hall to the left. Thoughtful, well-written replies always welcome.

You make good points, but extra headshot damage on sheilds just wouldnt work. Why would they make the energy sheild weaker in the head, the most important part of the body? that doesn't make any sense. you're rewarded for headshot aiming once the sheilds are down. It already takes less bullets to kill than the AR, even though the AR technically does more damage per shot. the BR negates the health after the sheild. negating both health bars would just be too good.

  • 08.01.2008 1:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: TehAttak
Oh boy... I don't want this to turn into a flame-a-thon. So, here we go.

For the comment on 20 WU, yes, your statement on bringing yourself closer to the target to BR better is true; but still, I feel that you can bring yourself close enough that you will be able to five, maybe a lucky four-shot someone off spawn but be invincible to an AR. BR spawns preclude this, but I digress... Also, at 12 or so WU, the most combat is BR vs. BR duels, still... but now, rather than who can 4sK and who can't, it's who can get a tighter spread if skill is roughly equal.

I'll skip the balance statement, just because we've agreed it's an individual opinion. But, yeah, the weapon balance in H3 is fine. I think it can be better though. Skill can be applied the same way. (My BR is good to great, I'd say, but my driving isn't nearly as good. Probably because I spend more time BRing than I do driving 'Hogs.)

Onto apathy. I disagree with you on the whole mêlée fix thing; I think it's better but not ideal...
However, the other nice thing about apathy is if there's a marked change for the better, people will appreciate it. But yeah, it is a gamble the Bungie Multiplayer Design Team is going to have to take; especially after the whole mêlée thing not going over 100% perfectly either.

The shotgun: wow, that red reticule is a LOT farther than I thought. I admit defeat there; I was getting two-to-three shot kills. However, I did manage to get a sixteen-shot kill with an AR at the edge of reticule range. It's film number twelve on my Fileshare. Needlers still home and blow up with eight needles at edge of red-range, sword still lunges at end of red range. So while I am sorry for calling you out on a generalization there by adding one of my own, I'm not quite done yet.

With this new information, I think that the Shotgun, Mauler, and BR are aberrations from the whole, that red reticule is normally the edge of 100% effectiveness. And I'm not giving up on the Shotgun or the Mauler; it may just take a very lucky, once-in-a-blue-moon, no spread for all the buckshot to hit, occasion. Not likely, but possible. The BR is probably that way too when you think about it...

I just had a thought. This will improve all the spreads, reduce them equally and effectively. 110% global damage in a playlist, say, Social Slayer. AR's would take 15 bullets to kill, a BR, eleven. Shotgun and Maulers will need less buckshot to hit, etc., but this would not break the current balance of the game one iota. Bungie can start there on determining what weapons need/don't need a fix without a patch...

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with your weapon assesments. The needler will NOT always kill with the reticule red. at close to close-medium range, jump strafing will make a needler useless, even though the reticule is red.

in a combat scenario, you will not be able to do that with the AR. ever. if the target is not playing or AFK, this could happen, if the AR is used in single shot fire. but there is no way in matchmaking with an AR you will get a 16 shot kill on an active target at the AR's red range.

On the sword: believe it or not, the sword is NOT 100% reliable. sometimes, the sword lunge will miss. not because of lag, sometimes it just does. if this hasnt happened to you, you are very lucky, but it probably will. also, just the fact that the Bulltrue medal exists proves this it isn't always going to kill.

  • 08.01.2008 2:02 PM PDT

Posted by: burritosenior
Posted by: mooshmoossh
I like the BR just the way it is.

I really don't see what's wrong with it.

There is nothing wrong with it., and I agree with you.


Seconded and.. um.. Thirded (?)

I used to be a noob who would use AR at any range, and fail. I have only recently begun do discover the advantages of BR. I love it.

It is very true to real life. Over several hundred feet, of course the bullets aren't going to be one after another. And you can't snipe with it, that would be silly.

Also, someone referred to balance. Well...

Sniper = Ultimate long range weapon. Cons: Very hard to use face to face. I use it like a mauler but it's all luck.

Shotgun = Ultimate close rage weapon. Cons: Can't really snipe with it, can you?

BR = IMO the best medium range weapon. Cons: Can't sNiiPE with it, AR is better at close range, Sniper is better at long range.

Leave the BR, I can't see anything unreasonable with it. It's only the minority who post these stupid "Change t3h Br and givez me rec0nz pl3x" threads. The majority of them die.

It's fine, leave it be.

  • 08.01.2008 2:44 PM PDT
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i dont like te br spread the h2 br was a lot better

  • 08.01.2008 3:12 PM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

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Moonbase Taco:

Well, the Sniper does more damage when it hits the head. So does the Carbine. The BR is a health-killer. So, I don't see a huge jump there. Also, the BR would still take three headshots to four slow bursts to kill, so the AR still has the speed advantage up-close. Let me tell ya: three headshots at melee range is very very hard to do, just because of the skill required.
H3's chief concern needn't be realism.

The point I was making is with other weapons is at the edge of their red reticules, (save Shotgun and Mauler that I've seen,) is it's physically possible to get a maximum-efficiency kill. At the edge of BR red reticule, it's as good as impossible to nail a four-shot. Even doing the 'aim for the neck' or actually lining up each shot individually, it's not going to happen.

On the sword: Yeah, I've had that happen, but that's because I collided with map geometry during my lunge and therefore will get knocked off my lunge. That, I guess, is just sour luck.
And Bulltrue exists just to really reward people who have insane timing on a sniper shot, shotgun, laser, etc.

So, yeah... Uhm, who's interested in the WWUD? I am. (lol, I'm bored of BR talkings. I've made my point. We've all made our points. Now, it's in the Big B's court.)

  • 08.01.2008 4:01 PM PDT

If you play a Microsoft CD backwards you can hear demonic voices.
The scary part is that if you play it forward it installs Windows.

"You know what I found? Right in the kernel, in the heart of the operating system, I found a developer's comment that said, `Does this belong here?`" -- Simon Lok about linux kernel in 2005

The BR spread actually helps me.
I was shooting at a guy and accidentally killed the guy beside him.

  • 08.01.2008 4:26 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

Yeah. Sometimes the BR spread spreads into the player when your aim is off.

  • 08.01.2008 4:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: TehAttak
Moonbase Taco:

Well, the Sniper does more damage when it hits the head. So does the Carbine. The BR is a health-killer. So, I don't see a huge jump there. Also, the BR would still take three headshots to four slow bursts to kill, so the AR still has the speed advantage up-close. Let me tell ya: three headshots at melee range is very very hard to do, just because of the skill required.
H3's chief concern needn't be realism.

The point I was making is with other weapons is at the edge of their red reticules, (save Shotgun and Mauler that I've seen,) is it's physically possible to get a maximum-efficiency kill. At the edge of BR red reticule, it's as good as impossible to nail a four-shot. Even doing the 'aim for the neck' or actually lining up each shot individually, it's not going to happen.

On the sword: Yeah, I've had that happen, but that's because I collided with map geometry during my lunge and therefore will get knocked off my lunge. That, I guess, is just sour luck.
And Bulltrue exists just to really reward people who have insane timing on a sniper shot, shotgun, laser, etc.

So, yeah... Uhm, who's interested in the WWUD? I am. (lol, I'm bored of BR talkings. I've made my point. We've all made our points. Now, it's in the Big B's court.)

Lets get this straight: NO weapon does more damage with headshots to the SHEILD. every headshot weapon simply negates the health bar after the sheild. The snipers simply appear to do more damage to the sheild because they do a tiny bit more damage than the sheild bar has hitpoints, I believe it's 72. If you don't belive me, put on 2x OS or 110% damage resistance and test to the head, then the body, and you'll see theres no difference in actual damage. this also applies to the carbine.

Also, about the weapons, have you tried the pistol, SMG, PR, Plasma pistol charged shot, and Spiker? a random fact: the only non precision weapon (Snipers, laser, sentinel beam) without a spread is the plasma pistol? o_0

[Edited on 08.01.2008 4:47 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2008 4:42 PM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

Need assistance with anything? Shoot me a PM. Duardo's FAQ on User Titles. | A word from 54.

I'll test later...

However, I don't think extra shield damage for headshots is too huge a leap for gameplay's sake...

The real point I guess is the BR, and it was just an idea I had for tweaking the BR. That's really it...

  • 08.01.2008 4:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: TehAttak
I'll test later...

However, I don't think extra shield damage for headshots is too huge a leap for gameplay's sake...

The real point I guess is the BR, and it was just an idea I had for tweaking the BR. That's really it...

Yeah, sorry for jumping at you for minor things, but I just had to point it out... BTW, I think the BR is fine as it is now. The weapon's 4 shot range isn't the end of it's effective range. you can 5-8 shot people from great distances. I personally define a weapons effective range as it's killing range with 1 clip or less, but that's just my opinion. Also, if the BR was so weak, how come pretty much everybody has it as their ToD?

  • 08.01.2008 4:51 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: Moonbase Taco
a random fact: the only non precision weapon (Snipers, laser, sentinel beam) without a spread is the plasma pistol? o_0

I'm not 100% on this (more like 95%), but the Plasma Pistol does have a spread. It's pretty much just like the Plasma Rifle. The charged shot still shoots randomly. It isn't that apparent because it is a single shot weapon.

I know its off-topic but I couldn't let that go as a "fact".

  • 08.01.2008 5:22 PM PDT

Lol

I don't think anything is wrong with the BR. But I think I have a solution to end this argument. Just make a playlist where you only use BR's. I mean like a playlist where you have radar and everything but no ARS. I believe this is the best answer

  • 08.01.2008 5:32 PM PDT
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I find nothing wrong with the BR. It kills in Campaign, and in multiplayer it's balanced. I think that people are just ticked about the fact that the BR is no longer an overpowered weapon. No gun is perfect.

  • 08.01.2008 7:06 PM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

Need assistance with anything? Shoot me a PM. Duardo's FAQ on User Titles. | A word from 54.

Posted by: Moonbase Taco
Yeah, sorry for jumping at you for minor things, but I just had to point it out... BTW, I think the BR is fine as it is now. The weapon's 4 shot range isn't the end of it's effective range. you can 5-8 shot people from great distances. I personally define a weapons effective range as it's killing range with 1 clip or less, but that's just my opinion. Also, if the BR was so weak, how come pretty much everybody has it as their ToD?


I guess we're at odds on our definition of 'effective range.'

I'm not saying the BR is weak; I'm just saying it could be better IMO. Make it a gun with a larger skill gap. Make battles less reliant on randomness and more on skill. I think that would aid the game and its players--pro and casual alike.

  • 08.01.2008 7:40 PM PDT