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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
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I can't stop laughing on how bad you suck. Commander Grade 5 or whatever the hell you are.

  • 08.04.2008 10:51 PM PDT

Posted by: BiH eXILE
I can't stop laughing on how bad you suck. Commander Grade 5 or whatever the hell you are.


Let me spell it out for you: you said you were done posting here, you were so fed up you were leaving and never coming back. Yet...here you are...posting, trying to provoke people. Where I come from, they call that a tantrum.

And mature people who don't like certain games just don't play them, they don't go online and throw a tantrum, they don't try to provoke people who do enjoy the games by calling them fanboys. So I'm asking you...for your sake...to grow up. Simply walk away. Like a big boy...

Because it's simple...you said that you were done...so, if you continue to post here...even one more time, you just keep proving that all you really want is attention.

So which is it? Are you a big boy? Or do you want attention?

[Edited on 08.04.2008 11:02 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2008 11:00 PM PDT
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Lol....I never said I didn't like the game. I just said it was inconsistent .

Now. What do you like better?

An inconsistent game? or An inconsistent game they can make in to a consistent one?

-blam!-boy.

  • 08.04.2008 11:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: x o CkY o x
Posted by: Sprool
If you guys want to know what the spread is on the AR. I found this picture that explains it.

It's modded, but it shows the AR spread perfectly.

AR Spread


Hmm... that's interesting.
Pretty odd, dammit, if only we could get mods again, I'll have to ask my friend to see if he can do that for the BR.

  • 08.04.2008 11:17 PM PDT
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i like it when you have to pick it up, but not to start. it's totally different game in BR starts vs AR starts. i love Halo CE so i never understood the BR it was like the pistol but in a very bad way. In halo 2 i was bummed the AR got cut. and in Halo 3 my prayers were answered the gods again delivered to us a one of the best killing machines of all time the AR, it has to have more kills then any gun in any the games.

  • 08.04.2008 11:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: BiH eXILE
Lol....I never said I didn't like the game. I just said it was inconsistent .

Now. What do you like better?

An inconsistent game? or An inconsistent game they can make in to a consistent one?

-blam!-boy.
There will always be inconsistent variables in every game. Halo CE was inconsistent, Halo 2 was inconsistent, Halo 3 is inconsistent.

The source of randomness will always be a factor in most if not all games. There is randomness in pro-football, basketball, baseball, golf, and poker to name a few.

You want the BR to be consistent, and to be consistent would eliminate the spread from being part of the game. That is your only defense to counter the argument that the BR is not broken, fine. Be as that may, the idea of the spread was issued to the BR to give it a suitable disadvantage to all other array of arsenals. Every weapon within “bungies” game types has some type or degree of a disadvantage so that it would not be the most dominate weapon in the setup of scenarios.

The fact remains, the BR is not BROKEN! Proof is displayed in the many kills most BR players have. If it was broken, the gun would be unusable, hence broken.
How is it that I am still able to four shot someone about 50% of the time? Granted, this is only when the game is within good lag. Mostly just get five shots, which is fine with me. To you, this is inadequate because you are so suited to the unbalanced and overly powerful BR in Halo 2. Trust me, so was I. My eyes glazed over all the time during my days in Halo 2. I am a BR player, I Play at midrange, I use the BR 98% of the time. Yet I have no problem with it.

The BR is already powerful. Not too strong to conquer all other weapons, but not too limited were it would be completely useless in most if not all strategies and scenarios. Decreasing the spread (to the point where it shouldn’t even be called a spread because the term wouldn’t make any sense to the way the weapon functions) would be giving it an upgrade. And why give an already powerful weapon an upgrade? That makes absolutely no sense. Making all other weapons irrelevant, so why pick up a different weapon you already have the best weapon to start out with?

Now to MLG, you use the same argument about the BR as contributing to the lesser of skilled players winning over the more skilled players because of the essence of randomness. Fine. In some degree I wish bungie would just give them what they want so we don’t have to keep hearing the same inane rhetoric about the BR in almost every thread on this forum.

Now that MLG took out every functioning weapon within Halo, we only have five weapons to choose from.
BR – This is random
Rockets- has a slight randomness associated to the blast radius.
Mauler – This is random.
Plasma pistol – charged shoot is random because it is not consistent with its lock-on capability.
Sniper – which is not random… yet!

Four out of five is not bad, considering MLGs distaste for randomness. But what if we made all those weapons without random variables? What other random events could take place within MLG?
Spawns
Grenades
LAG – only for XBL

Three isn’t bad, but still this is considered random, probably more but it’s late. So being consistent would not be fully possible, unless you want to make the game so very monotonous, boring, repetitive, and none enjoyable as possible, something MLG is already becoming. All for what? The subjective view that precision aiming is the most dominate skill on halo 3? Sounds like a -blam!- game to me.

  • 08.05.2008 1:11 AM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

We are aware that all the other weapons have randomness. But precise aiming weapons, such as the BR, are hindered more by randomness then those that are not. Because every bullet counts, where as 2 or 3 dropped bullets with the AR, usually makes very little difference in the outcome of a match/duel.

But the BR's spread is not the main issue, yes it contributes, but it has more to do with bullets not counting via H3's netcode.

[Edited on 08.05.2008 6:23 AM PDT]

  • 08.05.2008 6:18 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: BiH eXILE
I can't stop laughing on how bad you suck. Commander Grade 5 or whatever the hell you are.


Better than a 2nd Account booster who has his friend quit out so he can boost quicker.

I'd take a legit Commander over a boosted General any day.

Now, didn't you say you were leaving?

Posted by: MadroKurgan
Please stop generalizing the MLG community. All that generalizing a group does it discredit you.


Oh, so generalizing the B.net community is perfectly fine (B.net kids, go back to your ARs, etc.). If you didn't notice I was being rather sardonic in my reply to him.

Biased complaints about "generalizations" only discredit *you*.

Posted by: MadroKurgan
We are aware that all the other weapons have randomness. But precise aiming weapons, such as the BR, are hindered more by randomness then those that are not. Because every bullet counts, where as 2 or 3 dropped bullets with the AR, usually makes very little difference in the outcome of a match/duel.

But the BR's spread is not the main issue, yes it contributes, but it has more to do with bullets not counting via H3's netcode.


Actually, the weapon that is hindered most by bullet spread in a same-weapon duel is the shotgun. It's also the weapon (next to the sniper) that is affected most by latency. Especially in an off-host vs. on-host battle.

Missed bullets are missed bullets. Missing 2 bullets on the AR can mean your death just like 2 missed bullets on the BR can mean your death. I cannot count that amount of times I've been fighting people only watch their ARs run dry while mine kills them with the last few remaining shots. Now of course I'm smart enough to pulse the trigger making sure I can enough shots to finish them but that's beside the point.

Oh and bullet registration and packet loss has more to do with people's internet connections than the netcode in H3. Packet loss happen all the time in H2, you just couldn't prove it because you didn't have the theater option and it just made the bullets disappear instead of "refunding" them.

~B.B.



[Edited on 08.05.2008 8:44 AM PDT]

  • 08.05.2008 8:30 AM PDT
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A weapon with a big learning curve. People who can't use it can't because they have no skill.

  • 08.05.2008 9:42 AM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Oh and bullet registration and packet loss has more to do with people's internet connections than the netcode in H3. Packet loss happen all the time in H2, you just couldn't prove it because you didn't have the theater option and it just made the bullets disappear instead of "refunding" them.

~B.B.


You may be right, and I don't know much about how the netcode exactly works. However, what I do know is that it has to do with host advantage, so you could have the best internet and it still could happen (although not as bad).

Also, Gears of War had similar problems like this, and Cliffy has admitted that their netcode was faulty. Call of Duty 4, on the other hand, has no real issues like this.

[Edited on 08.05.2008 12:08 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2008 12:05 PM PDT
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wut issues!!!!!!!!!! the br is a great wepon just the way it is, nd dont even compare cod4 to halo 3 on penalty on death, so sometimes u miss shots with the br nd sometimes u die even tho u should have killed the guy with the br, who cares its a game, nd a game about war, war is random nd so is MM

  • 08.05.2008 12:30 PM PDT

"Death is an inconvenience now.... We are All Dead Men Walking."
"The Sniper Rifle is a Support weapon, your supposed to sneak around with it. Not stand in the open"
"Armor Lock is boss if you know how to use it!"
"I like the idea of a professional troll, though, it makes me think of a hideous creature under a bridge handing out business cards." -Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw

You want to know what weapon takes skill? Guess

and I believe the BRs fine your choices could have Been Single Shot (What I wanted) or Three shot burst with spread

  • 08.05.2008 1:30 PM PDT

Posted by: Pk 4 Skillz1
My thoughts:

*The BR was designed with strengths and weaknesses.
*The weaknesses were added in to offset the strengths.
*It takes skill to use the BR like JonnyOThan said.
*The BR is as effective as it was designed to be.
*Bungie DOESNT have to fix the BR because it is the way they want it to be.

So, if you don't like the BR there is one real simple solution.......................Don't Use It






Seriously, thank you, the BR is fine, it takes skill and good accuracy to used.

  • 08.05.2008 2:26 PM PDT
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I have never played halo 2 and some people say that the halo 2 br was...evil or something like that lol what was wrong with it

  • 08.05.2008 3:04 PM PDT
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Wow everyone on here needs to stop saying the br is fine.. Its not! When I have to 6 shot people who can 4 shot me when All Of My Headshots Land Its a crappy weapon. If you dont have BR as your most used weapon then apparently you suck with it and drive around in the warthog all day... Bungie the sooner you fix this the better because the br being the way it is makes it so noobs can kill people way higher skill than them. You just dont want it fixed because if it is you will be losing even more because you will get 4 shot because the shots will register and it wont be who's random bullet spread hits better wins... There I said it thats the reason bungie wont update it is because you people will cry and -blam!- on these forums 24/7 until they take it back the way it was because then you can get kills with it!

  • 08.05.2008 3:45 PM PDT
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The BR is so bad

  • 08.05.2008 3:49 PM PDT

GT: xGod of Lightx

Posted by: KillAngelZero
Wow everyone on here needs to stop saying the br is fine.. Its not! When I have to 6 shot people who can 4 shot me when All Of My Headshots Land Its a crappy weapon. If you dont have BR as your most used weapon then apparently you suck with it and drive around in the warthog all day... Bungie the sooner you fix this the better because the br being the way it is makes it so noobs can kill people way higher skill than them. You just dont want it fixed because if it is you will be losing even more because you will get 4 shot because the shots will register and it wont be who's random bullet spread hits better wins... There I said it thats the reason bungie wont update it is because you people will cry and -blam!- on these forums 24/7 until they take it back the way it was because then you can get kills with it!


i think the person doing all the crying is you

  • 08.05.2008 3:50 PM PDT
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Apparently you cant read...

[Edited on 08.05.2008 6:48 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2008 4:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Fence 611
I have never played halo 2 and some people say that the halo 2 br was...evil or something like that lol what was wrong with it
Basically, the BR in Halo 2 was a god weapon. There was a ton of magnetism and auto, you just had to put the crosshair in the general vicinity of the enemy's head and that's it, the game did the work for you. You didn't have to lead your shots like in Halo 1 or anything like that.

The BR in Halo 2 pre-patch had a spread in the burst similar to how it is in Halo 3. But post-patch, the BR had next to no spread in burst. This allowed it to be a powerful long range weapon that could actually rival the sniper rifle.

Then there was the rise of the button glitches, BXB, BXR, Quad-shot, etc. The glitches were always there but post-patch is when they really became widespread. You could do these glitches with any weapon, but when paired with the BR, the problems arose. The BXR allowed people to melee then cancel the animation, though the melee still did damage, after the animation was canceled, it allowed people to fire. When paired with the BR, this became an instant kill. This glitch allowed the BR to be a a very powerful close range weapon that could actually combat the shotgun and sword.

So, the BR became the universal weapon of Halo 2, Bungie didn't like that. Enter Halo 3, and you see the BR as it is in Halo 3. Everything that was changed about the BR from Halo 2 to Halo 3 was to balance the weapon. It's role now is a medium range weapon with some long range capabilities.

[Edited on 08.05.2008 8:19 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2008 8:15 PM PDT
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I agree that the BR is and should not be a "super weapon" but what bothers me is that if there are 2 exactly equally skilled players and one has host that one is going to win in a BR fight about 75% of the time. The only thing that bungie should fix is the loss of packets because that will only put an end to the loss of bullets and help with the spread. Many people liked the halo 2 BR the way it was when the game first came out just like many of you do but after bungie did the patch and the spread was fixed everyone seemed to be happier with it so for those people saying that the BR is fine how do u know that bungie couldnt do another great patch like the one in halo 2 and you will end up liking it more.You cant say its fine until uv tryed it after the patch..

  • 08.05.2008 8:38 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Oh, so generalizing the B.net community is perfectly fine (B.net kids, go back to your ARs, etc.). If you didn't notice I was being rather sardonic in my reply to him.

Biased complaints about "generalizations" only discredit *you*.

So because some ignorant people generalize B.net community, it is OK for you to do the same with MLG?

And your second remark is nonsense, "Biased complaints about generalization"? When are complaints not biased (redundancy)? And when is making generalizations about a group ever acceptable practice?


Actually, the weapon that is hindered most by bullet spread in a same-weapon duel is the shotgun. It's also the weapon (next to the sniper) that is affected most by latency. Especially in an off-host vs. on-host battle.

Missed bullets are missed bullets. Missing 2 bullets on the AR can mean your death just like 2 missed bullets on the BR can mean your death. I cannot count that amount of times I've been fighting people only watch their ARs run dry while mine kills them with the last few remaining shots. Now of course I'm smart enough to pulse the trigger making sure I can enough shots to finish them but that's beside the point.

Agreed about the shotgun (all though i still feel the BR is more critical) but 2 or 3 missed bullets is not nearly as crucial as missed bullets with the BR or sniper. With the AR it doesn't matter as much, because the ARs effective range is usually within melee distance. And 2 or 3 missed bullets makes no difference when followed up with a melee. With the shotgun, your follow up melee generally doesn't even count.

Oh and bullet registration and packet loss has more to do with people's internet connections than the netcode in H3. Packet loss happen all the time in H2, you just couldn't prove it because you didn't have the theater option and it just made the bullets disappear instead of "refunding" them.
Now that is false.

It has to do almost completely with H3s netcode. H3's netcode is based around the host estimating shot and player placement, and verifying the clients information. Many a time the host doesn't agree with the client, therefore what the client sees on his screen doesn't count. This helps hide the latency associated with online gaming, but the trade off for this smooth gameplay is bullets not registering and grenades not counting.

Other games, such as CoD2 or even Halo 1 centers around the client. The client sends the information to the host, the host then accepts what the client sends and processes it on the hosts screen. The host then sends its own info and the info of the other clients back to the client. This creates visible latency. Movement can have delay, and bullets have to be lead according to ping, and or their is a delay your shot. BUT!, every thing the client sees on his screen counts. Every bullet, and every grenade counts.

I don't need video playback to verify this. For example, in CoD2 i use a single shot rifle. One shot, one kill. EVERY time i see my bullet hit a guy, he dies. No exceptions.

So if bullets not registering in H3 is centered around packet loss, as you say, then how do you explain other games (CoD2, H1) that are just as susceptible to packet loss over the internet? They do not have bullets and grenades not registering. They use a completely different netcode then H3.





[Edited on 08.05.2008 9:15 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2008 9:13 PM PDT

Honestly, this must be a joke. Child, listen, stop trying to defend yourself because clearly you are incapable of it. The only idiot in this thread is yourself, and trust me, it is obvious. So, how about you do as I asked earlier and log off, mommy and daddy wouldn't want you staying up this late.
-- Direct Control, BAMF

Posted by: ted is good
I agree that the BR is and should not be a "super weapon" but what bothers me is that if there are 2 exactly equally skilled players and one has host that one is going to win in a BR fight about 75% of the time. The only thing that bungie should fix is the loss of packets because that will only put an end to the loss of bullets and help with the spread. Many people liked the halo 2 BR the way it was when the game first came out just like many of you do but after bungie did the patch and the spread was fixed everyone seemed to be happier with it so for those people saying that the BR is fine how do u know that bungie couldnt do another great patch like the one in halo 2 and you will end up liking it more.You cant say its fine until uv tryed it after the patch..

Unfortunatly for us, Bungie cannot simply "fix" packet loss. Packet loss can happen to anyone even with good connections, thats a problem you should take up with your ISP, but even they can't prevent data from being lost all of the time.

  • 08.05.2008 9:26 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: MadroKurgan
So because some ignorant people generalize B.net community, it is OK for you to do the same with MLG?


I was being sardonic. Do I honestly think that absolutely no cognitive thought ever happens on the MLG forums? No, obviously not. Why? Because I post there.

And your second remark is nonsense, "Biased complaints about generalization"? When are complaints not biased (redundancy)? And when is making generalizations about a group ever acceptable practice?

You chose to try to reproach me about it because you don't agree with me. You had nothing to say when the MLG posters were making far worse generalizations than I was. It's called cognitive dissonance and it's why you chose to say something to me about it but had nothing to say about it when they did it. Whether or not you think that my sarcasm and sardonic comments aren't acceptable is up to you. Complaints aren't always biased. They can be often times dichotomous.


Agreed about the shotgun (all though i still feel the BR is more critical) but 2 or 3 missed bullets is not nearly as crucial as missed bullets with the BR or sniper. With the AR it doesn't matter as much, because the ARs effective range is usually within melee distance. And 2 or 3 missed bullets makes no difference when followed up with a melee. With the shotgun, your follow up melee generally doesn't even count.


Even in your scenario the case that the missed bullets makes you use a melee with the AR is exactly the problem. That melee will more than likely result in a "double-melee" quite clearly killing the person that should have won the encounter if not for the "missed bullets". If you use the AR in the illogical fashion of 6 bullets than beatdown, it makes little difference because you only have to hit 6 bullets. If you're like me who RARELY uses the melee with the AR missing bullets with the AR is the same as missing bullets with the BR.


Now that is false.

It has to do almost completely with H3s netcode. H3's netcode is based around the host estimating shot and player placement, and verifying the clients information. Many a time the host doesn't agree with the client, therefore what the client sees on his screen doesn't count. This helps hide the latency associated with online gaming, but the trade off for this smooth gameplay is bullets not registering and grenades not counting.

Other games, such as CoD2 or even Halo 1 centers around the client. The client sends the information to the host, the host then accepts what the client sends and processes it on the hosts screen. The host then sends its own info and the info of the other clients back to the client. This creates visible latency. Movement can have delay, and bullets have to be lead according to ping, and or their is a delay your shot. BUT!, every thing the client sees on his screen counts. Every bullet, and every grenade counts.

I don't need video playback to verify this. For example, in CoD2 i use a single shot rifle. One shot, one kill. EVERY time i see my bullet hit a guy, he dies. No exceptions.

So if bullets not registering in H3 is centered around packet loss, as you say, then how do you explain other games (CoD2, H1) that are just as susceptible to packet loss over the internet? They do not have bullets and grenades not registering. They use a completely different netcode then H3.


Yes, but even with client-end netcode what will be seen on the screen of the client does not always equal what happens in the game. This is quite noticeably created by on-screen latency. The whole "ice-skating" and bullet lagging depending on what your ping level was that exact second. There are problems with both client-based and host-based netcode.

And I can certainly tell you countless times I shot a person with a sniper rifle in COD2 and it didn't even phase them. It was because most of the games played in COD2 in the beginning were played at 700ms ping levels and the latency killed the game. IW even attempted to curb some of the problems and yet at best most of the game I played were consistently in the 400ms ping range. Nice of IW to give you the ping ratings so you could absolutely be certain that pretty much every MP game you played in COD2 was a complete lag-fest with the exact numbers to back it up. Leading shots on a high ping game even on client-end netcode will produce situations where what happens on your screen does not actually happen in the game.

~B.B.

  • 08.05.2008 9:39 PM PDT

I'M GONNA HEADBUT YA!!
I'M GONNA HEADBUT YA!!
I'M GONNA HEADBUT YA!!

Halo is cool and enjoyable the way it is, it does not need anything put in or taken out. Stop whining that you can't get a kill, or if someone killed you with a BR 5 times in a row.

I like Halo the way it is. Bungie, please don't change anything.

  • 08.05.2008 10:11 PM PDT