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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

I find the BR kinda weird. In campaign, I used it all the time and was very successful with it but in multiplayer I find the other weapons more useful.

[Edited on 08.06.2008 2:58 AM PDT]

  • 08.06.2008 2:57 AM PDT

Bungie should add an option to toggle on and off a tightened spread for custom games and the mlg playlist

  • 08.06.2008 3:40 AM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
You chose to try to reproach me about it because you don't agree with me. You had nothing to say when the MLG posters were making far worse generalizations than I was. It's called cognitive dissonance and it's why you chose to say something to me about it but had nothing to say about it when they did it. Whether or not you think that my sarcasm and sardonic comments aren't acceptable is up to you. Complaints aren't always biased. They can be often times dichotomous.

I see what you mean. But most of their remarks are rather ignorant. Yours are not, and that is why i brought it up. There is no reason to "play" at their lvl. It just turns a discussion into a pissing match. Plus i hate when absolutes are used in any situation.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Yes, but even with client-end netcode what will be seen on the screen of the client does not always equal what happens in the game. This is quite noticeably created by on-screen latency. The whole "ice-skating" and bullet lagging depending on what your ping level was that exact second. There are problems with both client-based and host-based netcode.

And I can certainly tell you countless times I shot a person with a sniper rifle in COD2 and it didn't even phase them. It was because most of the games played in COD2 in the beginning were played at 700ms ping levels and the latency killed the game. IW even attempted to curb some of the problems and yet at best most of the game I played were consistently in the 400ms ping range. Nice of IW to give you the ping ratings so you could absolutely be certain that pretty much every MP game you played in COD2 was a complete lag-fest with the exact numbers to back it up. Leading shots on a high ping game even on client-end netcode will produce situations where what happens on your screen does not actually happen in the game.

~B.B.

Yes that is true, but not what i'm referring to.

With client side netcode the clients will see the latency, such as the delay from when pulling the trigger to the bullet hitting, sliding, etc. But regardless of visual delay, if you see your bullet hit, or grenade explode, then it also happened on everyone else's screen. Visual latency for reliable bullet, grenade, etc. is the trade off. With host side you get the appearance of negligible latency, but the trade off is dropped bullets, etc.

Every sniper bullet in CoD2 or pistol bullet in H1 over xbc that i am aware of counted for me IF I SEEN IT HAPPEN ON MY SCREEN. Not just pulling the trigger, but actually seeing the bullet hit. Some times in CoD2 when ping is high (350 and above), i can be dead on with the sniper and fire, BUT if the host fires before my bullet info gets to him, then my bullet will not count. The first players bullet to hit will win, and the bullet that you shot will fade away. There is no double kills. The same thing happens in splitscreen. That is the design of the game, unlike H3 situation. That may be what you are referring to. But every single time that i am aware of when i use the scoped Kar or the Kar, when i see my bullet hit (and it might take up to a full second after i pull the trigger), my opponent goes down, or gets wounded. I don't need to go to theater to know that when i empty my entire BR clip into someone, and my aim is tight, that bullets are not registering. BR bullets not registering happens all the time to me, in every game multiple times.

Plus i'd much rather have client side, rather then host. With client side i can adjust my shot according to the latency. I therefore can still dominate at very high pings. And what i see on my screen counts MOST of the time. With host side, latency is covered up significantly. And what you see on screen is not what you get a lot of the time. It is a role of the dice as to whether the host will agree with you or not.

[Edited on 08.06.2008 4:34 AM PDT]

  • 08.06.2008 3:49 AM PDT

Honestly, this must be a joke. Child, listen, stop trying to defend yourself because clearly you are incapable of it. The only idiot in this thread is yourself, and trust me, it is obvious. So, how about you do as I asked earlier and log off, mommy and daddy wouldn't want you staying up this late.
-- Direct Control, BAMF

Posted by: Gennetik
Bungie should add an option to toggle on and off a tightened spread for custom games and the mlg playlist

Then everyone would be happy, and hopefully shut up. I don't know if that can actually be done now though : ' (

  • 08.06.2008 4:04 AM PDT
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i think scotty has a solid point. in certain circumstances the br doesn't take skill to use, it just takes more luck than the other person. this isn't a game of poker fellas, its about having more skill than your opponent

  • 08.06.2008 7:54 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: MadroKurgan
I see what you mean. But most of their remarks are rather ignorant. Yours are not, and that is why i brought it up. There is no reason to "play" at their lvl. It just turns a discussion into a pissing match. Plus i hate when absolutes are used in any situation.


Fair point. And you're right, if I want my opinion/viewpoint to be considered higher than theirs I can't exactly do the same petty things they are.


Yes that is true, but not what i'm referring to.

With client side netcode the clients will see the latency, such as the delay from when pulling the trigger to the bullet hitting, sliding, etc. But regardless of visual delay, if you see your bullet hit, or grenade explode, then it also happened on everyone else's screen. Visual latency for reliable bullet, grenade, etc. is the trade off. With host side you get the appearance of negligible latency, but the trade off is dropped bullets, etc.

Every sniper bullet in CoD2 or pistol bullet in H1 over xbc that i am aware of counted for me IF I SEEN IT HAPPEN ON MY SCREEN. Not just pulling the trigger, but actually seeing the bullet hit. Some times in CoD2 when ping is high (350 and above), i can be dead on with the sniper and fire, BUT if the host fires before my bullet info gets to him, then my bullet will not count. The first players bullet to hit will win, and the bullet that you shot will fade away. There is no double kills. The same thing happens in splitscreen. That is the design of the game, unlike H3 situation. That may be what you are referring to. But every single time that i am aware of when i use the scoped Kar or the Kar, when i see my bullet hit (and it might take up to a full second after i pull the trigger), my opponent goes down, or gets wounded. I don't need to go to theater to know that when i empty my entire BR clip into someone, and my aim is tight, that bullets are not registering. BR bullets not registering happens all the time to me, in every game multiple times.

Plus i'd much rather have client side, rather then host. With client side i can adjust my shot according to the latency. I therefore can still dominate at very high pings. And what i see on my screen counts MOST of the time. With host side, latency is covered up significantly. And what you see on screen is not what you get a lot of the time. It is a role of the dice as to whether the host will agree with you or not.


Now, I'm not an expert in this field and I really haven't done much work with this stuff since high school (which was almost a decade ago) but the differences in netcode come down to the differences in TCP and UDP. While TCP is great and all it doesn't work at all with complex things over the internet. Which is why pretty much everything over XBL (that I know of) uses a UDP-type system.

I'm not sure if COD2 used a TCP-based system for their netcode, but it sounds like it or something similar. With TCP, it ensures packet arrival (and multiple "handshakes") but can make things 'chug' which produces many lurches and lunges in on-screen display. The problem with this and client-end services is that it produces just as many "WTFBBQ!" moments as UDP/host-end does. On my screen in a TCP/client-end you could not even be facing me and not firing, however on your screen you're looking dead at me and shooting me in the face. You send the packet saying that you're making my face a pin-cushion, and I die because the TCP/client-end makes sure that all packets are sent/received and reflect in gameplay. This isn't a good scenario because I certainly would have adjusted my interaction if I would have known you were actually looking at me. With TCP/client-end and especially in games of high ping levels you can never know for sure if someone is looking at you, moving towards you, firing at you, etc.

And like you said, in COD2 you could have shot someone on your screen but it doesn't matter if they shoot you "first". Especially if the game negates shots that happen in later packets (you can't kill me even if you shot if you were dead when you "sent" the packet). Since TCP ensures all packets are received and ordered correctly, if you consistently get a lower "rank" packet number than I do, the game could consistently negate shots I fire because you're packet sends and receives then my packet does, but my packet doesn't produce the result because I am "dead" because of the information contained in your packet.

Now, I'd love to just be able to roll back the clock and just return online gaming to to the simple times of P2P netcode. Especially since that's all my personal experience has let me do. Back when Doom and DukeNukem were gods and that netcode was amazing. Lock-steps made some things easier to do but made a lot of other things very complex. Can you imagine trying to do a BTB game in H3 on a P2P/Lock-step connection all the time? You're 360 would melt so quickly it would be ridiculous. Would it be nice that even in a server-proxy architecture (like H3 uses) that it could redo the "game state" from the server to the client at each "tick"? Hell yeah. Do I think that it is even remotely possible even in today's technology? Hell no. The amount of bandwidth required for something like that for a game like Halo 3 would be monstrous.

Now I don't like being a "proxy" any more than you do and I'm not sure why Bungie and pretty much everyone else uses UDP over TCP. But I'd imagine there has to be a reason. I hope that one day that even with a server-proxy architecture that there will be sufficient bandwidth so that the server can send an accurate "game state" to all proxies which would effectively end host advantage. I just also know that won't be happening anytime soon. Again, it seems bandwidth and the interwebz are to blame.

~B.B.

  • 08.06.2008 8:48 AM PDT
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The Burr is very inconsistent though even when you lead your shots. I go into film and see shots hitting the target and yet their shields are still being unaffected.

  • 08.06.2008 9:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: xKaraS
The Burr is very inconsistent though even when you lead your shots. I go into film and see shots hitting the target and yet their shields are still being unaffected.
That's not a problem with the spread, that's a problem with the hit registration. It happens with every gun, but it's most visible with the BR and Sniper.

[Edited on 08.06.2008 9:51 AM PDT]

  • 08.06.2008 9:50 AM PDT

Step One: Turn on your 360
Step Two: Put 5-6 heavy blankets on the xbox while it is on
Step Three: Wait 4-5 hours
Step Four: Leave house for that time
Step Five: And when you come back (insert somthing here)!!

Posted by: mooshmoossh
I like the BR just the way it is.

I really don't see what's wrong with it.

  • 08.06.2008 10:23 AM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member
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I'm not insane... just a sane person in an insane world.

Spam and repeat posting?

What should we do then? We're trying to tell you something.. THE BR IS BROKEN, GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!

  • 08.06.2008 11:15 AM PDT

"Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive anyway." Goes for anything I say; anything I do, doubly so.

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Posted by: Relys
Spam and repeat posting?

What should we do then? We're trying to tell you something.. THE BR IS BROKEN, GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD!


Broken? No. It does function as designed.
Fine? No. Battles can be (and too frequently are) decided by pure luck.

The answer lies between the two IMO, it just needs some variables tweaked.

  • 08.06.2008 11:56 PM PDT
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The br is 100% broken even if bungie was to fix it. It would fall under the radar to most casual players therefore adding some kind of skill based gameplay witch god forbid a noob gets killed from a player that is better than him.

[Edited on 08.07.2008 6:45 AM PDT]

  • 08.07.2008 6:44 AM PDT
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Here is what i dont get. Remember back when the post about the BR spread was addressed and there was a poll. The thing is that the vast majority of the people agreed with it and wanted the spread to be fixed, and it wasnt just by 10 votes. It was a huge difference. So shouldnt they fix it.
Now people are gonna say " Its bungie and its there game and they can do what they want with it."
But wouldnt they as the company come to see that hey "alot more ppl want this"
so why not make your audience in the majority of the BR being fixed happy

  • 08.07.2008 9:01 AM PDT
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They changed it for a reason. I know thus issue is really old, but i have a video that might help understand why.

Just at the "hitbox section", and maybe the plasma pistol and br section towards the end(2:40), but i hope this helps you understand why.

Yes, the title is Halo 2 has been noobified, though i did not create this video, just purely for understanding reasons

[Edited on 08.07.2008 9:31 AM PDT]

  • 08.07.2008 9:28 AM PDT
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They should at LEAST tighten the spread a little bit.

I hate dropping shots on someone that's just 10 feet away from me. :/

  • 08.07.2008 10:38 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Ninja is Bosss
Here is what i dont get. Remember back when the post about the BR spread was addressed and there was a poll. The thing is that the vast majority of the people agreed with it and wanted the spread to be fixed, and it wasnt just by 10 votes. It was a huge difference. So shouldnt they fix it.
Now people are gonna say " Its bungie and its there game and they can do what they want with it."
But wouldnt they as the company come to see that hey "alot more ppl want this"
so why not make your audience in the majority of the BR being fixed happy


Yes...a biased poll done by DanBauer who's threads I don't even read anymore because of their sheer idiocy is sooo indicative of the opinion of the majority of the Halo 3 population. That poll and the people trying to use it as leverage only demonstrates they don't know what they are talking about.

~B.B.

  • 08.07.2008 10:50 AM PDT
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A biased poll is better than a biased non-fact. Everyone could vote, everyone could weigh their options, it came out the way it did because, probably, the competitive community cares more. GASP!

Majority rules shouldn't be used for this kind of design change, anyway.

  • 08.07.2008 11:59 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: WMDistraction
A biased poll is better than a biased non-fact. Everyone could vote, everyone could weigh their options, it came out the way it did because, probably, the competitive community cares more. GASP!

Majority rules shouldn't be used for this kind of design change, anyway.


Or the fact that "competitive" players were more inclined to go in that thread and vote. Hence why it was biased. Hence why it meant and means nothing. I didn't vote in the thread because it was a waste of time, just like pretty much all DanBauer's threads are.

Why shouldn't "majority rules" be used for this exactly? Because right now the majority is either apathetic towards the BR-spread or absolutely doesn't want it changed. The very small minority of people do want a change. I'd love to hear why that very small minority deserves higher consideration than everyone else. Oh wait they don't.

The gun is working as Bungie intended it to and the majority of the population doesn't care or doesn't want it changed. Why this is even still being discussed is beyond me.

~B.B.

  • 08.07.2008 12:52 PM PDT

"Don't tell me how to live my life!"
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TWP
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R.I.P. ~B.B.

the new update borked mah BR!!eleven!1!

  • 08.07.2008 1:53 PM PDT

Why isn't it feasible to make an option for turning the BR spread on and off in the options? Then we can have the best of both worlds.

I just think it's mean for Bungie not to even make this option. It's like telling all the competitive players "Shhh...we are letting the noobs run things 100% for a while go sit down till we call you"

There should be a "Pro" mode option for an option to turn on certain things in the game like changes in beatdowns, br spread etc. so the competitive community gets what they want while the noobs still play Team Slayer with their default settings. There...problem solved.

  • 08.07.2008 2:15 PM PDT

Posted by: Onyx_91
You jelly?

Posted by: MLG Black Hawk
I don't understand why people keep asking other people if they are a sugary substance used to spread on bagels and toast.

The BR is the most versatile gun in the game it works great at both long, mid, and close range and thats why I prefer to have it because it uses a lot of strategy and skill for it. I am not saying you are a noob if you have an AR its just the AR is meant only for close quarters while the BR is any combat situation.

  • 08.07.2008 5:39 PM PDT

Why isn't it feasible to make an option for turning the BR spread on and off in the options? Then we can have the best of both worlds.

I just think it's mean for Bungie not to even make this option. It's like telling all the competitive players "Shhh...we are letting the noobs run things 100% for a while go sit down till we call you"

There should be a "Pro" mode option for an option to turn on certain things in the game like changes in beatdowns, br spread etc. so the competitive community gets what they want while the noobs still play Team Slayer with their default settings. There...problem solved.


Agreed. In the game settings for custom games there should be options for stuff like that, so us competitive players will be happy, and the casual players will be happy doing what ever they do. But being Bungie they probably won't ever do anything like that because they don't care for competitive players since the casual players make up most of the gaming world. Whatever, I hope MLG picks up something decent in the near future.

[Edited on 08.07.2008 8:22 PM PDT]

  • 08.07.2008 7:52 PM PDT

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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: WMDistraction
A biased poll is better than a biased non-fact. Everyone could vote, everyone could weigh their options, it came out the way it did because, probably, the competitive community cares more. GASP!

Majority rules shouldn't be used for this kind of design change, anyway.


Or the fact that "competitive" players were more inclined to go in that thread and vote. Hence why it was biased. Hence why it meant and means nothing. I didn't vote in the thread because it was a waste of time, just like pretty much all DanBauer's threads are.

Why shouldn't "majority rules" be used for this exactly? Because right now the majority is either apathetic towards the BR-spread or absolutely doesn't want it changed. The very small minority of people do want a change. I'd love to hear why that very small minority deserves higher consideration than everyone else. Oh wait they don't.

The gun is working as Bungie intended it to and the majority of the population doesn't care or doesn't want it changed. Why this is even still being discussed is beyond me.

~B.B.


I'm sorry but the only minority I see here is the B.net users. Achronos has said before that about 1% of Halo 3 players post in the B.net forums. For you to assume that the competitive type player, or just the player who wants the BR changed is the minority is just as naieve as the kid you're quoting. A biased pole does not show the true opinion of the people. It'd be like if you walked into the democratic national convention and asked 1000 people who they think would make a good president. Don't think there'd be one vote for John Mccain in there. I'm just using that as an example though. Ask random people, not people with a biased opinion. B.B. I really have already proven that without the shunned hardcore community the gaming industry as a whole would not be as advanced as it is today. Logically there probably wouldn't be a Halo 3 without them, so please stop talking about them like they're insignificant.

  • 08.08.2008 3:04 AM PDT

If you're interested in recruiting (or being recruited), for matchmaking or gamebattles, please join my group. If you do decide to join please tell all your friends. Thanks in advance.
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Ranked Perfection

Posted by: Theeeee ReVeNgE
Why isn't it feasible to make an option for turning the BR spread on and off in the options? Then we can have the best of both worlds.

I just think it's mean for Bungie not to even make this option. It's like telling all the competitive players "Shhh...we are letting the noobs run things 100% for a while go sit down till we call you"

There should be a "Pro" mode option for an option to turn on certain things in the game like changes in beatdowns, br spread etc. so the competitive community gets what they want while the noobs still play Team Slayer with their default settings. There...problem solved.


Agreed. In the game settings for custom games there should be options for stuff like that, so us competitive players will be happy, and the casual players will be happy doing what ever they do. But being Bungie they probably won't ever do anything like that because they don't care for competitive players since the casual players make up most of the gaming world. Whatever, I hope MLG picks up something decent in the near future.


Seriously?!? They gave us forge so we could make more competitive-centric maps. They gave us infinite more customizable options when creating a gametype. They really have given us a lot. -blam!- they even gave us a half-assed playlist to call our own. on the whole I think some of us should be more thankful. Still there is no reason why they couldn't simply add a menu option to customize all weapons spread. Including the AR, shotgun, and any other weapon you want to customize.

[Edited on 08.08.2008 3:08 AM PDT]

  • 08.08.2008 3:07 AM PDT