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Subject: The Only BR Thread
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

Hopefully this will end some debates and whatnot.

I really don't care about the BR issue personally.

  • 07.01.2008 10:40 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
Hopefully this will end some debates and whatnot.

I really don't care about the BR issue personally.


Thanks for your contribution, the discussion is better for it.

  • 07.01.2008 10:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
Posted by: Duardo
Hopefully this will end some debates and whatnot.

I really don't care about the BR issue personally.


Thanks for your contribution, the discussion is better for it.


Hahah, seriously, why do people even post if there not interested in the topic at hand? Its like they feel naked if they dont at least leave there mark about not caring about the subject at hand.

And there will always be debates about this game, because people are never satisfied ;) Like all of us who are wishing for a change in the BR and all its IMO flaws.

[Edited on 07.01.2008 11:23 PM PDT]

  • 07.01.2008 11:21 PM PDT
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uhh. k posted this here. I see a lot of Luke hate around the MLG forums (and much arrogance and illogical statements), and they are using the quote "Randomness is a poor substitute for tactics and skillful execution". I think, to state that the Halo 3 BR sucks or some crap. Well, this thread is to completely make that quote fail.

First, no quote can be accepted "as is" unless you have logical reasoning behind it. MLG put no logic in the quote and uses it "as is". Now, what if I said "MLG sucks because they use BR and it's stale gametypes"? You guys would out of your way to prove it wrong with logic and statements to say blah blah blah, and you did prove that MLG does not "suck". Why can't you elaborate on that simple quote? What does that quote mean for you people? Don't just say that "the BR is random, fix it".

I'll show you, did Bungie say that the BR was the most skillful weapon? No, you guys promoted it as the most skillful weapon, and that promotion ends at Halo 3. The most skillful weapon to use is the sniper rifle, with no randomness at all. Since the BR isn't the most skillful, that means it can have a little randomness. Bungie didn't say the battle rifle was a power weapon. It's just like any other non-power weapon on the Halo 3 sandbox.

Also, your definition of skill is different then Bungie's definition of the word, so that is yet another logical failure. Maybe you should look into adding the SMG, since using it in a good situation can be considered "skillful". It's not like, "Oh no, he has an SMG, what ever shall I do with my BR, I will get pwned now." "stupid noob with SMG"

If randomness is such a poor substitute, what would be a good one? Can you guys think of anything better that will also be a win/win solution? Obviously not, since it's been 8+ months and still no logical or good suggestions.

Another thing is that, maybe Bungie makes mistakes, and their logic changes. You really can't judge a game in the present by a quote from the past. Especially with the development processes these games go through.

Maybe you should learn to use more then three to four weapons on your maps. Maybe you should hire a modder to mod your maps for you to make the BR more accurate, It's possible.

EDIT: By the looks of it, their mlgpro.com forums doesn't even have any kind of BR sticky. Wow, impossible.

[Edited on 07.01.2008 11:50 PM PDT]

  • 07.01.2008 11:48 PM PDT

All I can say is that I just played Halo 1 Lan last night and MAN WAS IT GGGOOOOOOOOODDD!!!!!!!!

When I shot someone I KNEW where it was going to hit them. No shooting them 6 times and watching one of the bullets fly past him. Where I aimed is where it hit.

I remember back to the VERY FIRST trailer that they released for Halo 2 and it originally had the BR as a 1 shot weapon. WHY NOT KEEP IT THAT WAY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! If you are too worried about it being the "new Halo 1 pistol" then just nerf the damage on it a little bit so that it becomes a 5 shot kill. I think most people that play professionally and most people from the Halo 1 glory days would accept this and really start playing the game.

  • 07.01.2008 11:49 PM PDT

so is br gonna be the new recon?

  • 07.01.2008 11:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: ObL1Qu3
All I can say is that I just played Halo 1 Lan last night and MAN WAS IT GGGOOOOOOOOODDD!!!!!!!!

When I shot someone I KNEW where it was going to hit them. No shooting them 6 times and watching one of the bullets fly past him. Where I aimed is where it hit.

I remember back to the VERY FIRST trailer that they released for Halo 2 and it originally had the BR as a 1 shot weapon. WHY NOT KEEP IT THAT WAY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! If you are too worried about it being the "new Halo 1 pistol" then just nerf the damage on it a little bit so that it becomes a 5 shot kill. I think most people that play professionally and most people from the Halo 1 glory days would accept this and really start playing the game.


I did the same thing, popped in good ol Halo CE and yea what a difference in the weapons and there predictability. The cosmetic side to the game didn't even bother me, it felt like a smooth FPS. I miss that sliding effect you get/feel when your playing CE (and thats no knock to either H2 or H3 it was just fun to play and see again).

  • 07.01.2008 11:57 PM PDT

Remember Reach

It is sad that this is still relevant.

BUNGIE stated why they made the BR the way they did, they even went as far as to show you the mathematical equations behind it, they stated that it is working as it was intended to and why they wanted it to work that way, and still the MLG posers claim that it is broken and needs fixing. It is not broken. It does not need fixing. All they want, truly, is to be catered to like spoiled rich kids. Last I checked, BUNGIE did not make this game to cater to a minority crowd that doesn't even play the game to it's full potential, using only a small portion of the myriad of weapon choices and even less of the new features.

Although I do understand the reasoning behind the limited arsenal, since the beginning of competitive FPS gaming there have been certain weapon archetypes that have been standard and staple to all circuits (I am talking about the days of PC competition gaming, before there was MLG and the posers to go with them.)

BUNGIE made this game the way they wanted to, and part of that creation process involved going out to a ranch with a couple actual U.S. Marines and firing actual real-world weapons, measuring effective range, bullet-spread, rate of fire, kickback, etc. and translating that into game code to provide a semi-realistic experience. What they got in return was a vocal population of jerk-offs complaining that bullets don't go as straight as they want.

It sickens me to see such hubris.

And to those who try to use the "It's a game where we fight aliens in space, so why bother with realism?" argument, allow me to get my rebuttal out of the way.

I play this game to immerse myself in a world that I do not live in, to experience things I will never get the actual chance to. The world presented to me by BUNGIE is realistic enough within it's own parameters, and stays true to it's own universe. I play for the fun of it, and the excitement of playing a role no human alive today will truly play.

I do not, however, complain that a certain aspect of that world does not fall within my personal notions on how I think something should have been done.

This game is not realistic, but it utilizes real-world aspects and incorporates them into the sci-fi setting that the writers and designers were wanting to convey. Your argue that since the world is unrealistic there is no need for realism? I argue that since it is unrealistic, there needs to be realism to ground it and make it believable. If there was no thought put into the way weapons work, if there was no studies into the way Marines move and interact with eachother in a combat situation, then this would not be HALO. If there were no fatastical elements of aliens, energy weapons, and giant space rings, then this would not be HALO.

Stop trying to turn HALO into something else.

You are not that important.

  • 07.02.2008 12:34 AM PDT
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On LAN the BR is fine, online its horrible.

  • 07.02.2008 1:04 AM PDT

Posted by: SteelWolf2552
It is sad that this is still relevant.

BUNGIE stated why they made the BR the way they did, they even went as far as to show you the mathematical equations behind it, they stated that it is working as it was intended to and why they wanted it to work that way, and still the MLG posers claim that it is broken and needs fixing. It is not broken. It does not need fixing. All they want, truly, is to be catered to like spoiled rich kids. Last I checked, BUNGIE did not make this game to cater to a minority crowd that doesn't even play the game to it's full potential, using only a small portion of the myriad of weapon choices and even less of the new features.


Your point about not utilising the weapons is laughable at best. I didn't realise that having a 'favourite' weapon was taboo. I didn't realise that my opinion is discounted unless I use the new gimmicks. I can play with whatever weapons I want, and if I only play with the BR then so be it. It doesn't make my opinion any less valid then a weapon slut. No, we don't want to be catered to like rich kids. What we want is for there to be more consistency in the game, as currently fights are not determined by the most skilled player, but rather the luckiest. Random values have little place in gaming, in a competitive environment or otherwise.

Posted by: SteelWolf2552
Although I do understand the reasoning behind the limited arsenal, since the beginning of competitive FPS gaming there have been certain weapon archetypes that have been standard and staple to all circuits (I am talking about the days of PC competition gaming, before there was MLG and the posers to go with them.)


... Ok?

Posted by: SteelWolf2552
BUNGIE made this game the way they wanted to, and part of that creation process involved going out to a ranch with a couple actual U.S. Marines and firing actual real-world weapons, measuring effective range, bullet-spread, rate of fire, kickback, etc. and translating that into game code to provide a semi-realistic experience. What they got in return was a vocal population of jerk-offs complaining that bullets don't go as straight as they want.

And to those who try to use the "It's a game where we fight aliens in space, so why bother with realism?" argument, allow me to get my rebuttal out of the way.

I play this game to immerse myself in a world that I do not live in, to experience things I will never get the actual chance to. The world presented to me by BUNGIE is realistic enough within it's own parameters, and stays true to it's own universe. I play for the fun of it, and the excitement of playing a role no human alive today will truly play.

I do not, however, complain that a certain aspect of that world does not fall within my personal notions on how I think something should have been done.

This game is not realistic, but it utilizes real-world aspects and incorporates them into the sci-fi setting that the writers and designers were wanting to convey. Your argue that since the world is unrealistic there is no need for realism? I argue that since it is unrealistic, there needs to be realism to ground it and make it believable. If there was no thought put into the way weapons work, if there was no studies into the way Marines move and interact with eachother in a combat situation, then this would not be HALO. If there were no fatastical elements of aliens, energy weapons, and giant space rings, then this would not be HALO.


Once again, you resort to snide, vitriolistic comments to get your point across, that not only highlight your immaturity but also your ignorance. Also, your attempts to undermine the MLG community's views insinuates that your view and opinion mean something also - it most certainly does not. All we do is put across our opinion and views, and the BNET kids take it personally. Because hey, if Bungie made it, it must be fine, because the customer is always wrong, aren't they? Now, to rebut your point

Please explain to me where the MLG community asks for realism with the Battle Rifle. All we ask is that the random outcomes from the game are extinguished, because random values are a poor substitute for accuracy, precision and hand-eye coordination. We merely want the person who best utilizes the Battle Rifle in the fight to win, not the player who had the luck of the spread fall their way. I hope you reply and indicate where we ask for realism instead of consistency, but this time try to reply without the petty insults and attempts at belittleling the MLG community.

Posted by: SteelWolf2552
Stop trying to turn HALO into something else.


Try and stop me.

Posted by: SteelWolf2552
You are not that important.


Don't imply that you are.

[Edited on 07.02.2008 1:06 AM PDT]

  • 07.02.2008 1:05 AM PDT

Hey, where's all the ignorant nimrods that always seem to appear in other threads?

GASP! Could it be that they are staying away from a thread where they might actually have to contribute instead of whine? No way!

  • 07.02.2008 1:05 AM PDT

Posted by: JimboMonkey1234
Hey, where's all the ignorant nimrods that always seem to appear in other threads?

GASP! Could it be that they are staying away from a thread where they might actually have to contribute instead of whine? No way!



Nope, the pinned topic threads are harder to see. If you call the 65+ pages of posts in Zach's thread 'whining", then you sir are as ignorant as Bungie.

  • 07.02.2008 1:08 AM PDT

Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
Posted by: JimboMonkey1234
Hey, where's all the ignorant nimrods that always seem to appear in other threads?

GASP! Could it be that they are staying away from a thread where they might actually have to contribute instead of whine? No way!



Nope, the pinned topic threads are harder to see. If you call the 65+ pages of posts in Zach's thread 'whining", then you sir are as ignorant as Bungie.

If you'd perhaps like to know that was not aimed at you. It was aimed at those whose typing resembles this:

Br iZ teh B3sT uzzz n00b555!!!!!!!!!11111111!!!!!!!!!11

You are much more sensible.

But to the point, removing the random spread is removing a real world, real life concept. Thus detracting from realism. In real life, sometimes it's based on luck too. You're lucky Bungie didn't incorparate wind and air resistence, not to mention gravity. That would be interesting.

  • 07.02.2008 1:12 AM PDT

i love BRs but that doesnt mean all other weapons suk

  • 07.02.2008 1:12 AM PDT

Posted by: JimboMonkey1234

If you'd perhaps like to know that was not aimed at you. It was aimed at those whose typing resembles this:

Br iZ teh B3sT uzzz n00b555!!!!!!!!!11111111!!!!!!!!!11

You are much more sensible.


No problem mate, simple misunderstanding.

  • 07.02.2008 1:15 AM PDT

Posted by: captain snoopy
i love BRs but that doesnt mean all other weapons suk


That's nice, but whoever said they did?

  • 07.02.2008 1:17 AM PDT

Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
No problem mate, simple misunderstanding.

Good, glad to hear it. Now goodnight, I don't know about you but my clock reads 1:17 am. And I'm tired. I'll check this thread out in the morning. See ya then.

  • 07.02.2008 1:18 AM PDT

Posted by: JimboMonkey1234
Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
No problem mate, simple misunderstanding.

Good, glad to hear it. Now goodnight, I don't know about you but my clock reads 1:17 am. And I'm tired. I'll check this thread out in the morning. See ya then.


6:19 PM for me. Living in Australia :'D

  • 07.02.2008 1:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
If you call the 65+ pages of posts in Zach's thread 'whining", then you sir are as ignorant as Bungie.
Thanks for the compliment

  • 07.02.2008 1:33 AM PDT
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Spartans are from Venus and Elites are from Uranus

Lol. i was wondering where all the complaining went XD
This is for the better.

  • 07.02.2008 1:54 AM PDT

Posted by: Vashkey
Lol. i was wondering where all the complaining went XD
This is for the better.


Maybe if you prefer "elitz n swot" and "y ppl T-BAG!?!?!?" threads to productive discussion.

  • 07.02.2008 2:07 AM PDT

First of all, I honestly don't see anything wrong with the BR. The Halo 2 BR was overpowered and would dominate every other weapon, to the point that no one would use other weapons. They toned it down to make it a more balanced game. Bungie has said repeatedly that it is now working as intended, and I believe them. Now, I don't play competatively as some of the folks on here, so....I may not notice the spread and randomness, but, who cares.

Frankly, Bungie doesn't owe you anything. They produced a game and sold it to consumers for $60 a pop. More if you bought the Limited or Legendary. But, that's all you got with your purchase. A game, and the way it was made. Bungie has been great to us as a community with this forum, map packs, auto updates, dbl xp weekends....and you all take it for granted and complain about the smallest things. I guess because we get all of these things, people assume that Bungie will just bend over backwards for us. I'll make an assumption too...that 80 - 90% of the people on this forum are under the age of 20. I guess because mom and dad buy you whatever you want, you don't understand how business works. When will you get it through your heads that as a consumer; you're not entitled to anything other then what you purchased? You bought a game, and that's all your entitled to. Stop asking for more.

  • 07.02.2008 2:55 AM PDT

Posted by: Matrix React
First of all, I honestly don't see anything wrong with the BR. The Halo 2 BR was overpowered and would dominate every other weapon, to the point that no one would use other weapons. They toned it down to make it a more balanced game. Bungie has said repeatedly that it is now working as intended, and I believe them. Now, I don't play competatively as some of the folks on here, so....I may not notice the spread and randomness, but, who cares.


Who cares? Open your eyes and perhaps take a look at the 67 page thread posted by Zach? Maybe look through a few pages of threads on this forum, maybe then you will notice the backlash. To say that noone cares is nearly as ignorant as denying that there is a problem. What kind of game determines the winner based on random values? That isn't gaming, that's gambling, and inconsistency is a poor substitute for skill. Bungie have said it is working as intended, yes, but that doesn't mean I have to accept that they have it right. If they intended the BR to be an inconsistent weapon with random values, then they did a good job. But that doesn't mean I have to agree that the BR should be an inconsistent weapon with random values.

Posted by: Matrix React
Frankly, Bungie doesn't owe you anything. They produced a game and sold it to consumers for $60 a pop. More if you bought the Limited or Legendary. But, that's all you got with your purchase. A game, and the way it was made. Bungie has been great to us as a community with this forum, map packs, auto updates, dbl xp weekends....and you all take it for granted and complain about the smallest things. I guess because we get all of these things, people assume that Bungie will just bend over backwards for us. I'll make an assumption too...that 80 - 90% of the people on this forum are under the age of 20. I guess because mom and dad buy you whatever you want, you don't understand how business works. When will you get it through your heads that as a consumer; you're not entitled to anything other then what you purchased? You bought a game, and that's all your entitled to. Stop asking for more.


Who ever said they did owe us anything? All we have done is put forward a problem we have noticed and suggested a solution. Whether Bungie accepts this problem or not is a different story, but it is our right as the consumer to be able to voice our opinion on the product, especially when we detect faults and especially when they provide a forum to do so. Secondly, don't make assumptions and don't make misleading statistics. Your attempt at belittleing certain parts of the community and making a generalisation about their age just shows how immature you are. Noone feels as if Bungie 'owes' them anything. Bungie has portrayed themselves as a game developer accomodating to criticism and have even provided a nice little forum and a sparkly thread to post it in, so don't act as if we are asking for anything by making a suggestion.

  • 07.02.2008 3:19 AM PDT

Posted by: BakedPotatoLive
Posted by: Matrix React
First of all, I honestly don't see anything wrong with the BR. The Halo 2 BR was overpowered and would dominate every other weapon, to the point that no one would use other weapons. They toned it down to make it a more balanced game. Bungie has said repeatedly that it is now working as intended, and I believe them. Now, I don't play competatively as some of the folks on here, so....I may not notice the spread and randomness, but, who cares.


Who cares? Open your eyes and perhaps take a look at the 67 page thread posted by Zach? Maybe look through a few pages of threads on this forum, maybe then you will notice the backlash. To say that noone cares is nearly as ignorant as denying that there is a problem. What kind of game determines the winner based on random values? That isn't gaming, that's gambling, and inconsistency is a poor substitute for skill. Bungie have said it is working as intended, yes, but that doesn't mean I have to accept that they have it right. If they intended the BR to be an inconsistent weapon with random values, then they did a good job. But that doesn't mean I have to agree that the BR should be an inconsistent weapon with random values.

Posted by: Matrix React
Frankly, Bungie doesn't owe you anything. They produced a game and sold it to consumers for $60 a pop. More if you bought the Limited or Legendary. But, that's all you got with your purchase. A game, and the way it was made. Bungie has been great to us as a community with this forum, map packs, auto updates, dbl xp weekends....and you all take it for granted and complain about the smallest things. I guess because we get all of these things, people assume that Bungie will just bend over backwards for us. I'll make an assumption too...that 80 - 90% of the people on this forum are under the age of 20. I guess because mom and dad buy you whatever you want, you don't understand how business works. When will you get it through your heads that as a consumer; you're not entitled to anything other then what you purchased? You bought a game, and that's all your entitled to. Stop asking for more.


Who ever said they did owe us anything? All we have done is put forward a problem we have noticed and suggested a solution. Whether Bungie accepts this problem or not is a different story, but it is our right as the consumer to be able to voice our opinion on the product, especially when we detect faults and especially when they provide a forum to do so. Secondly, don't make assumptions and don't make misleading statistics. Your attempt at belittleing certain parts of the community and making a generalisation about their age just shows how immature you are. Noone feels as if Bungie 'owes' them anything. Bungie has portrayed themselves as a game developer accomodating to criticism and have even provided a nice little forum and a sparkly thread to post it in, so don't act as if we are asking for anything by making a suggestion.


I'm not saying you can't disagree with how they made the BR. I for one, think it's fine. And, I hope they DO NOT change it based on a minority of the community. But, you're right, as a consumer, you can voice your opinion about the product. However, from what I've seen on this forum, that's the real act of immaturity. Maybe not you directly, but there have been MANY users that have gone beyond the point of simple voicing their opinion. There are plenty of people who claim Bungie 'owes' them. I suggest you re-read the over 15000 pages of threads. It shows how truly petty the community is.

  • 07.02.2008 3:30 AM PDT

Posted by: Matrix React
I'm not saying you can't disagree with how they made the BR. I for one, think it's fine. And, I hope they DO NOT change it based on a minority of the community. But, you're right, as a consumer, you can voice your opinion about the product. However, from what I've seen on this forum, that's the real act of immaturity. Maybe not you directly, but there have been MANY users that have gone beyond the point of simple voicing their opinion. There are plenty of people who claim Bungie 'owes' them. I suggest you re-read the over 15000 pages of threads. It shows how truly petty the community is.


There are many unintelligent MLG people, yes, but I would say that there just as many unintelligent BNet kids. Surely you get sick of the "ELITZ IN SWOT", "BUNGEE WHERZ MI 50" and "shuld ppl tebag" threads aswell. I for one would rather a discussion then the previously mentioned examples, no matter how many kids put forward their undeveloped points and rebuttals. But to discount the entire argument based on a few unintelligent mortals is pure ignorance. For every "BUNGIE FIX THE BR YOU OWE US" kid, there is another "GUD JOB BUNGIE U ARE PERFECT" kid. I am not going to ignore the immature MLG kids on these forums, but neither am I going to ignore the mindless drones that say "how hi?" when Bungie asks them to jump.



[Edited on 07.02.2008 3:46 AM PDT]

  • 07.02.2008 3:44 AM PDT