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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
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After all this time, I still don't get what people are complaining about!

Bungie balanced all the weapons in Halo 3 so that they were all the same. That way people that aren't as skilled at lining up shots and reading the maps, can still play the game! Honestly, I'm terrible at Halo 3 because I'm the sort of person who likes to take aim and fire from afar or with precision accuracy in close. The wonderful thing is, you can do that, but you don't have to! You could just as easily throw grenades of hose people with AR bullets. It's unfair, but I'm not complaining though. I was too good at the first two games. I like it A LOT better now that casual gamers can step up and fight on par with me without putting in years of practice like I have!

The BR in Halo 3 was Bungie's single greatest achievement and probably their last... Like all things, a gaming company must grow and continue to grow or it'll die. Unfortunately Bungie has grown past the hardcore fanbase it started with and is now catering to casual gamers, who sadly, are very fickle.

  • 09.22.2008 9:14 AM PDT
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Banana rifle

  • 09.22.2008 1:23 PM PDT

jumal was here

The BR is my fav wepon

  • 09.22.2008 1:32 PM PDT

Does anyone actually make intelligent posts in here about how horribly Bungie wrecked the BR in H3 in comparison to H2. The Spread is just ridiculous now.

Picture this: 2 good players BR-ing each other across map, say from S2 to top gold (or across guardian for the less enlightened). What is it that decides the outcome - in matchmaking, most likely lagg. In customs, the host often sponges. But that's the internet, it's gonna have lagg.

The problem is the BR is still unreliable on LAN. Why? SPREAD. Honestly take two players similar in skill and it really is just a matter of who gets lucky with the spread. This spread problem is even more evident in SWAT, I've hit still players, even spartans, without a red reticule. But it's not gonna change, at least not in the near future, and heck, Bungie did a good job everywhere else.

But please, think before you post in this thread: 'Is it helpful, is it necessary, does it improve on the silence?'

  • 09.22.2008 2:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: iTz Tr1cksteR
Does anyone actually make intelligent posts in here about how horribly Bungie wrecked the BR in H3 in comparison to H2. The Spread is just ridiculous now.

Picture this: 2 good players BR-ing each other across map, say from S2 to top gold (or across guardian for the less enlightened). What is it that decides the outcome - in matchmaking, most likely lagg. In customs, the host often sponges. But that's the internet, it's gonna have lagg.

The problem is the BR is still unreliable on LAN. Why? SPREAD. Honestly take two players similar in skill and it really is just a matter of who gets lucky with the spread. This spread problem is even more evident in SWAT, I've hit still players, even spartans, without a red reticule. But it's not gonna change, at least not in the near future, and heck, Bungie did a good job everywhere else.

But please, think before you post in this thread: 'Is it helpful, is it necessary, does it improve on the silence?'
no it was horibly wrecked in h2 they were gona make h2 br like h3 but they had a deadline

  • 09.22.2008 3:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: xXSpyderSE88Xx
I hate the battle rifle. I think it is far too over powered. It really makes it the dominant starting weapon of the game, and that should not be the case. I wouldn't mind it so much if there isn't so many gametypes with "BR" included in their name not to mention that the games that aren't BR starting have BRs lieing all over the maps. It really ruins the fun in the game.

this guy knows what hes sayin if brs isnt reduced halo wont have any players in the coming 2-3 years

  • 09.22.2008 3:09 PM PDT
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BR pwns. End of discussion.

The final verdict by ~Pengoo64~

  • 09.22.2008 3:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: iTz Tr1cksteR
Does anyone actually make intelligent posts in here about how horribly Bungie wrecked the BR in H3 in comparison to H2. The Spread is just ridiculous now.

Picture this: 2 good players BR-ing each other across map, say from S2 to top gold (or across guardian for the less enlightened). What is it that decides the outcome - in matchmaking, most likely lagg. In customs, the host often sponges. But that's the internet, it's gonna have lagg.

The problem is the BR is still unreliable on LAN. Why? SPREAD. Honestly take two players similar in skill and it really is just a matter of who gets lucky with the spread. This spread problem is even more evident in SWAT, I've hit still players, even spartans, without a red reticule. But it's not gonna change, at least not in the near future, and heck, Bungie did a good job everywhere else.

But please, think before you post in this thread: 'Is it helpful, is it necessary, does it improve on the silence?'


1. Most people argue for spread reduction, not elimination, so I'll go off that. If you argue for reduction, you are a hypocrite. All you do is reduce the range at which luck becomes a factor, pushing the range farther. Now we still have luck, and all you did is push the range back because you want to own losers at longer distances like you did in H2. Don't hide behind your facade of "skill."

2. All you care about is aiming skill. Yes, it's a shooter, but there are a lot more tactical elements in Halo. Look at the quote someone used from Ogre about chess. It is chess. The kill comes after a ton of planning to put yourself in position. As of now, you can't BR snipe from across the map. Oh no! Wait, use your team and tactics to get into position and range where you are confident you won't miss and it will be dependent upon skill. What? There isn't unlimited range? I have to get in range? Yes.

3. The BR with spread, but a tighter one would take even less skill. Yes, you'd still have to lead, but what's the difference between then and now? You still have to lead, but you'll most likely miss one or two bullets. With a tighter spread, if you hit, you hit all. While it may need more skill for mid range shots, as it's all hit or miss at that range, even an average person can hit the shots pretty easily with a red reticule. Not much skill differentiation there.

4. Now you also have balance issues. It's a lot more powerful at longer ranges, and with spread, it's still very powerful at closer range. I mean, how hard is it to get a headshot with a burst, spread weapon (you're fooling yourself if you think the BR is a supremely skillful weapon. Whine to Bungie for a scoped pistol or carbine fix so you can start with them and I'd respect you a whole lot more)? For the finishing headshot of an unshielded opponent, you can just strafe your shot for an easy kill. Now you have a weapon that beats AR anywhere outside of melee range, and also can dominate even at all but the farthest sniper ranges. Instead of being a viable option for most situations, it now becomes almost the best for all, like H2.

5. How about realism? I can see the look of hate in your eyes now. You think I'm an idiot. But I've said it a million times before. Bungie uses realism EVERYWHERE. Look at gravity, bullets piercing your brain kill you, equal and opposite reactions, and...oh yah, weapons balancing. Every weapon is balanced using realism. Obviously lasers and plasma weapons semi or not realistic at the moment, but they incorporate the same ideas from human counterparts. Look at the spread and functionality of weapons in the game. Automatics have huge spread, burst weapons (BR) have less spread, and sniper rifles that are single shot with a long barrel have supreme accuracy. The BR fits into its niche and makes gameplay flow, rather than being out of place. I'm not saying a little range wouldn't be good (Yellow 2 to Snipe 2 on Guardian being pretty accurate), but I really think it plays fine if you use tactics and not focus solely on aiming skills.

6. The BR is competitive as is. As stated before, if you are inside a certain range, it does come down to pure aiming skill. What you desire is a H2 BR that is supreme to all. Heck, with the H2 BR, I saw people pass up snipers because the BR was more than sufficient. You just whine because you now have to figure out ways to get into the ideal range. If you really want a skillful game, which is what you argue for, put on 2-3x OS, have sniper starts, and now you have a truly skillful, 4 shot starting weapon. Problem solved for MLG and skill (or lack thereof).

You need to realize that there are more skills in Halo than just aiming. You also need to realize that arrogance, especially when you have proved nothing other than the fact that you can talk big and run your mouth off, is not good. Please be more cordial and don't act like anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot. I'm not saying I don't believe that a little increase to the BR wouldn't be ok, I'm just trying to help put you in your place by showing you a few alternative ideas.

[Edited on 09.22.2008 9:24 PM PDT]

  • 09.22.2008 4:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rabid33
The only people complaining about the BR is the MLG noobs because they always use it outside its effective range


Rofl, i play mostly MLG but i dont complian don't speak for all of us.

  • 09.22.2008 6:45 PM PDT
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BR takes skill and thats all there is to it if you don't like it don't use it.

  • 09.22.2008 7:40 PM PDT
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Are we aloud to post threads regarding how awesome the carbine is compared to the br? Or just how awesome the carbine is?



Don't we all need a little Car-bine lov'in~


:D I say that on xbl when people call me a noob for using a carbine instead of a br.

  • 09.22.2008 8:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: DaNny iZ PrO
BR takes skill and thats all there is to it if you don't like it don't use it.
See, there is a problem with that statement. I don't like some aspects of the BR, I admit it. But on most maps, it is the only mid-range gun you can use. So saying "don't use it" doesn't work.

That's like saying, If I don't like one aspect of a game, like how fast a player moves, I should completely stop playing it. That's retarded, just because I don't like one aspect of a game, doesn't mean I don't want to play it, it means that I don't like one thing about the game.

You can't force this idea of "perfection" into people's minds. There is no such thing as "perfection", people will always find something that they don't like about a game.

So, what was the purpose of writing this whole essay? I'll just make it short: Don't use the "Don't like it, don't use it" argument. It's a stupid argument, and in fact, it's not even an argument. It's a cop-out.

  • 09.22.2008 8:59 PM PDT

Firstly I would like to dispel the misconception that people want the BR to be like the Halo 2 BR. The majority of players just want the BR to be consistent and may make references to the consistency of the halo 2 BR but they prefer the skill required to use the H3 BR.

One of the major problems with the halo 3 BR is that the spread is RANDOM. This results in luck being a deciding factor when using the BR and if just 1 bullet is significantly innacurate out of 4 shots then you may die when you shouldn't have. This is extremely frustrating and unnecessary.

The purpose of the spread is to limit the effective range of the BR so that it can't be used like a sniper rifle. Even if the BR was hitscan with no spread the sniper would be a much more powerful weapon at long range. The BR takes 4 shots providing the last 1 is a headshot to kill somebody while the sniper takes 1 headshot or 2 body shots. Don't confuse this statement with support of a hitscan BR its just an example. In addition to this the BR is hard to aim at long range and requires leading, the sniper is much easier to aim effectively at long range. Currently the BR is almost useless at long range online and I see no reason why it can't be made a little more effective at range.

When it comes to close range the BR is a poor weapon by itself and is only effective when used with grenades.

My proposal would be this:
Eliminate the spread of the BR so that each bullet follows the same trajectory. This way the BR is no longer affected by random factors. Reduce auto-aim slightly so that the BR is harder to aim. With these changes the BR will be semi-effective at long range as leading is still required and if you lead correctly but your target changes direction you may only land 1 bullet (this in itself hugely reduces the power at long range). The BR is hard to aim and lead correctly at long range anyway so I don't see it being overpowered at all.

To counter the argument that all weapons have spread the BR is a precision weapon and it's 2 predecessors (H2 BR and H1 Pistol) were both consistent. The automatic weapons have spread because they are spray weapons and this is logical as they should have a limited range, same with shotgun, mauler etc.

To all those who say "learn how to use the BR", "you suck with the BR" etc. The people generally speaking who complain about the BR are the people who are good at using it and are frustrated by its inconsistency.

To those who make comparisons to real life this is a game and is not meant to resemble real life, it is designed to be fair and balanced and in my opinion the weapon that arguably requires the most skill to aim is unnecessarily affected by random factors.

  • 09.23.2008 2:35 AM PDT

Posted by: Master Grim
After all this time, I still don't get what people are complaining about!

Bungie balanced all the weapons in Halo 3 so that they were all the same. That way people that aren't as skilled at lining up shots and reading the maps, can still play the game! Honestly, I'm terrible at Halo 3 because I'm the sort of person who likes to take aim and fire from afar or with precision accuracy in close. The wonderful thing is, you can do that, but you don't have to! You could just as easily throw grenades of hose people with AR bullets. It's unfair, but I'm not complaining though. I was too good at the first two games. I like it A LOT better now that casual gamers can step up and fight on par with me without putting in years of practice like I have!

The BR in Halo 3 was Bungie's single greatest achievement and probably their last... Like all things, a gaming company must grow and continue to grow or it'll die. Unfortunately Bungie has grown past the hardcore fanbase it started with and is now catering to casual gamers, who sadly, are very fickle.


The game should be balanced so that those with the highest degree of aiming and mental skill are at the top. You don't even have to be good with the BR to get lots of kills with it, a lot of the time it's all about positioning and teamwork.

There are too many weapons in halo that just require you to aim in the general direction of someone, the AR is just ridiculous and there is really nothing you can do if you have half shields and someone charges you with a full clip of AR ,if you have nowhere to run, the only way to prevent them hitting you is to get close and jump around them but then the crazy melee lunge comes into play and again just by looking in your general direction they can perform an unavoidable melee. This doesn't take a great deal of skill and the only time it does is when you sneak across the entire map to do it, otherwise it is just a matter of luck as your target is distracted or you spawn behind them. This to me is not fun, I at least want a chance when I have a disadvantage to kill somebody, this is what made the game so great, If we both had BRs I could strafe and it would actually be possible to kill someone if I had half shields. Although with the spread it's easier for people to get headshots so they quite often get lucky. Now if the melee was avoidable or had very little range I could jump around them and make myself an awkward target, however usually when you do that you are just met with a beatdown.

The individual can no longer excel and the game tends to revolve around trading kills. This is boring and in my opinion not fun.

If the spread was eliminated and the BR was made a touch harder to aim the game would be so much more fun, the BR also takes time to learn and at the lower levels would not be dominant by any means and at the higher levels almost everybody prefers to use the BR anyway thats why people always veto for BR starts etc. So altering the BR would benefit the better players and the casual players wouldn't even realise it was changed. Also if the Melee was nerfed a bit in terms of range and damage then you would always have a chance in close combat instead of having 1/2 shields and having practically no chance. The AR also has way too much range for the aiming skill required and I frequently get killed by just 2 or 3 bullets from long distance when I have no shields. The AR is so powerful that I could probably beat anyone who is average at BRing at mid range just by strafing as that has no effect on my aim but a huge effect on theirs.

Think of how much more fun the game would be and the awesome things you could do if these changes were made.

  • 09.23.2008 3:22 AM PDT
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It feels to me that the BR was more accurate at a long distance in halo 2, like on burial mounds you could shoot a sniper with it across the map and he wouldn't be able to get a shot off..a little bit different nowadays.

  • 09.23.2008 3:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: Prodigy117
Firstly I would like to dispel the misconception that people want the BR to be like the Halo 2 BR. The majority of players just want the BR to be consistent and may make references to the consistency of the halo 2 BR but they prefer the skill required to use the H3 BR.

One of the major problems with the halo 3 BR is that the spread is RANDOM. This results in luck being a deciding factor when using the BR and if just 1 bullet is significantly innacurate out of 4 shots then you may die when you shouldn't have. This is extremely frustrating and unnecessary.

The purpose of the spread is to limit the effective range of the BR so that it can't be used like a sniper rifle. Even if the BR was hitscan with no spread the sniper would be a much more powerful weapon at long range. The BR takes 4 shots providing the last 1 is a headshot to kill somebody while the sniper takes 1 headshot or 2 body shots. Don't confuse this statement with support of a hitscan BR its just an example. In addition to this the BR is hard to aim at long range and requires leading, the sniper is much easier to aim effectively at long range. Currently the BR is almost useless at long range online and I see no reason why it can't be made a little more effective at range.

When it comes to close range the BR is a poor weapon by itself and is only effective when used with grenades.

My proposal would be this:
Eliminate the spread of the BR so that each bullet follows the same trajectory. This way the BR is no longer affected by random factors. Reduce auto-aim slightly so that the BR is harder to aim. With these changes the BR will be semi-effective at long range as leading is still required and if you lead correctly but your target changes direction you may only land 1 bullet (this in itself hugely reduces the power at long range). The BR is hard to aim and lead correctly at long range anyway so I don't see it being overpowered at all.

To counter the argument that all weapons have spread the BR is a precision weapon and it's 2 predecessors (H2 BR and H1 Pistol) were both consistent. The automatic weapons have spread because they are spray weapons and this is logical as they should have a limited range, same with shotgun, mauler etc.

To all those who say "learn how to use the BR", "you suck with the BR" etc. The people generally speaking who complain about the BR are the people who are good at using it and are frustrated by its inconsistency.

To those who make comparisons to real life this is a game and is not meant to resemble real life, it is designed to be fair and balanced and in my opinion the weapon that arguably requires the most skill to aim is unnecessarily affected by random factors.


Overall, I agree with a specific spread or a little reduction and reducing autoaim, but I think you have a few faulty, or at least arguable points.

- Halo 2 BR wasn't a precision weapon, as you refer to it. It took a patch to turn it that way, and Bungie realized their error (though as you say, it wasn't a hitscan weapon, which makes it a bit different). Not to mention that EVERYONE noticed how different it was, from the pro who owned, to the horrible kids who were now getting completely owned by this weapon.

- Realism does come into play. Look at my last post with 6 arguments against BR change on this page (76).

- People would notice a difference, no matter what the skill. There was a good post on this, either on this page, or one or two before.

-The BR isn't good at close range? As long as you stay outside of melee range, only duels can beat you. The AR, if ALL shots land, has only a millisecond or two faster kill rate. Not to mention if you work with a team, getting that headshot in at close range is easy with a burst weapon. The AR is good, but not nearly as good as you say. You can out BR it easily at mid range (middle of Guardian to Yellow 2). At close range, the AR can beat the BR if perfect, if it gets the first shot, or if the BR gets close enough to melee. But seriously, why shouldn't it win if you take a BR in that range?

- Saying that if this BR would be like the H2 BR, it still wouldn't be like the sniper, is just not right. Sure, you have to get that finishing headshot, but with a three round burst, is it really that hard? It might take you 5 shots, but still. Furthermore, the H2 BR was often better than the sniper, as you could keep the sniper unzoomed at all but the farthest ranges.

- In your next post, you say that aiming and mental skill SHOULD be the factors that play into the BR, but now anyone can be good with it because it's all about positioning and teamwork...and the problem is what? Aiming does come into play, but so does teamwork and positioning. I don't see how those aren't skillsets in this game or why they shouldn't be. Why are tactics looked down upon over aiming skills? Furthermore, you think that increasing the range at which someone can accurately get a kill is going to make things better? Assuming that everyone plays with people of similar ranks, it's not going to be a huge deciding factor in skill, as that will already be established. All your doing now is extending range. There's no way you can tell me that people who haven't boosted or bought accounts aren't paired with people of similar skill. Changing the BR will not do any form of sorting that is not already done, as the better players are still better because they have better aim and tactics.

[Edited on 09.23.2008 1:29 PM PDT]

  • 09.23.2008 4:32 AM PDT
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i think its fine. the spread is realistic too.

  • 09.23.2008 12:22 PM PDT

imo, the only thing 'wrong' with the BR is that it lacks ammo sometimes. it's all good if you have BR starts, 'cos they're lying all over. but sometimes when you're going through a map like construct, you can get screwed since there isn't as many BR spawns for ammo as there is on other maps. but really, that's nothing 'wrong', just how the weapon was designed.
i personally didn't like the BR on H2's live because you'd spawn on burial grounds and were instantly in a fight. plus, it really just took away from all the other weapons.

  • 09.23.2008 2:11 PM PDT
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There are 7 BR spawns on Construct, almost 1 for every player in a TS game. I don't see how that's a problem.

  • 09.23.2008 2:41 PM PDT

Posted by: Jervis Tetch
There are 7 BR spawns on Construct, almost 1 for every player in a TS game. I don't see how that's a problem.


like i said, it's not really a problem.

also, i meant in cases where you spawn up top & there are no spawns in the corridor, & you run into someone or whatever.

  • 09.23.2008 3:10 PM PDT

i think its fine. the spread is realistic too.
OHHH I see, Bungie trying to be realistic and made the BR spread? I always just thought it was futuristic and they would fix that problem by then. But no sir-e, bungie mad smart and wanted it to be more realistic.

  • 09.23.2008 7:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: IKevsterI
i think its fine. the spread is realistic too.
OHHH I see, Bungie trying to be realistic and made the BR spread? I always just thought it was futuristic and they would fix that problem by then. But no sir-e, bungie mad smart and wanted it to be more realistic.


Goodness! You people don't read any posts that are intelligent and are more than three sentences long, let alone draw your own intelligent conclusions. Halo is extremely realistic in many aspects, weapons being one of them. Before you flame, read my posts on this page and the last.

  • 09.23.2008 8:24 PM PDT

Posted by: fifthderelicte
Posted by: AgLion
OK, this is likely to be burried in the intense wave of thread whoppers that post a page a second, but here.
Reading the first page, I noticed that people said the BR was too random and inconsistant compared to the H2 BR. The Sniper is the most consistant because it is meant to be fit at long range, and to be fit for long range, a rifle must be consistant.
Mid-Range rifles (like the BR and Carbine) are meant for 20-80m use infront of the player, therefore it is not as consistant to prevent difficulty aiming. In other words, the more consistant the rifle, the harder it is to aim because the reticule is smaller as the consistancy goes up.
Close Range Rifles are meant for 0-20m infront of the player. They have the largest reticules easing the aiming and are most effective at close range.

I would post a specific topic about this, but I do not wish to become a victim of the moderators.


You're saying what no BR lover wants to hear. They love the concept of every weapon having a purpose and range, other than the beloved BR. I agree with you completely. The BR fits its niche. I wouldn't mind if they made the carbine or a similar weapon that's meant to be accurate at longer distances than the BR, but they'd have to make it harder to aim. As of now, the BR is WAY too easy to aim. If you want skill, tell Bungie to make a carbine that can be played on all maps.

I realize that tightening the BR spread would make it harder to use and take more skill. However, the fact that it still has spread makes it too easy. That means that headshots at close range are still easy to get, as the burst makes it almost impossible to not finish a kill, plus now it would be dominant at even longer ranges. The BR already dominates the AR if you stay outside of melee range and you shoot accurately. It also dominates any other weapon until you get into sniper range. What more do you want? If you want balance and skill, like I said, argue for the carbine to be tweaked (though I don't think that's possible).

It all comes down to the fact that the BR IS consistent. The problem is, people want to feel like God and crush their opponents from across the map with the starting weapon. As it is now, you have to use tactics and teamwork to work your way into the range that your sure all shots will hit, or take your chance with using the BR OUTSIDE OF INTENDED RANGE. It really comes down to using the weapons to their advantages and working around the disadvantages. Why should we do that with every other weapon except the BR?


Actually - according to the manual the Br is meant to be effective over "medium to long ranges". Unless long range means "longer than halfway across Guardian" than that argument is shot to hell.

Anyways - not like anyone cares - but I have stopped playing Halo 3 completely so all this crap doesn't really matter to me anymore. I was vocal about it at one point - but I guess the competitive / hardcore members who have been supporting Bungie since Halo 1 (and before for some people - not me specifically - but some people) have been shut out in favor of the mainstream. It's like the difference between an Eminem album and an Ayreon album - one is complete garbage but appeals to mainstream people (Halo 3) and one is not meant to appeal to the mainstream but is better musically, lyrically and any other way possible (Shadowrun). Eminem has a niche or role - to sell albums (Halo 3) - Ayreon has real vision and appeals to more non-mainstream listeners (Shadowrun). They achieve far less sales, even though they are better. Get my point? Because I hope so...

Most of you have never even heard of Ayreon - which makes my point even more "to the point" and blunt. Anyways - hopefully Halo 4 is better (I'm assuming they are making one) - because Halo 3 is looking like a great third trade-in for Rock Band 2 + new drum set.

  • 09.23.2008 9:07 PM PDT

Posted by: the_overmaster
Actually - according to the manual the Br is meant to be effective over "medium to long ranges". Unless long range means "longer than halfway across Guardian" than that argument is shot to hell.

Here's a thought. The BR55HB SR is selective fire. Meaning it can fire semi-automatic, single shots, essentially functioning like the sniper rifle. Whilst it is locked to firing 3-round bursts in-game, in the greater canon of the Halo storyline, which the information in the manuals is part of, the BR is capable of single shots, which would naturally allow longer range engagements.

  • 09.24.2008 12:55 AM PDT