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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
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Posted by: the_overmaster
Actually - according to the manual the Br is meant to be effective over "medium to long ranges". Unless long range means "longer than halfway across Guardian" than that argument is shot to hell..


The problem is that most people define "effective" as deadly accurate. This idea, obviously comes down to how you define those ranges. I wouldn't argue that I think the BR should be pretty accurate across Guardian. But some proposals are ridiculous. The BR is meant to be a mid range weapon, meaning it is great at that range. At long ranges, it is supposed to be "effective," meaning it can deal some damage. Bungie even said this themselves. They want a good mid range weapon, but effective at long range so it can ping snipers out of zoom, or annoy them a little. Effective by no means insinuates perfection, or even near perfection. Will a BR bullet have a decent chance to hit at long range? Yes. Effective. Will an SMG/AR/Shotgun bullet have a chance to hit at long range? No. Not effective.

  • 09.24.2008 5:10 AM PDT

Posted by: fifthderelicte
Overall, I agree with a specific spread or a little reduction and reducing autoaim, but I think you have a few faulty, or at least arguable points.

- Halo 2 BR wasn't a precision weapon, as you refer to it. It took a patch to turn it that way, and Bungie realized their error (though as you say, it wasn't a hitscan weapon, which makes it a bit different). Not to mention that EVERYONE noticed how different it was, from the pro who owned, to the horrible kids who were now getting completely owned by this weapon.

- Realism does come into play. Look at my last post with 6 arguments against BR change on this page (76).

- People would notice a difference, no matter what the skill. There was a good post on this, either on this page, or one or two before.

-The BR isn't good at close range? As long as you stay outside of melee range, only duels can beat you. The AR, if ALL shots land, has only a millisecond or two faster kill rate. Not to mention if you work with a team, getting that headshot in at close range is easy with a burst weapon. The AR is good, but not nearly as good as you say. You can out BR it easily at mid range (middle of Guardian to Yellow 2). At close range, the AR can beat the BR if perfect, if it gets the first shot, or if the BR gets close enough to melee. But seriously, why shouldn't it win if you take a BR in that range?

- Saying that if this BR would be like the H2 BR, it still wouldn't be like the sniper, is just not right. Sure, you have to get that finishing headshot, but with a three round burst, is it really that hard? It might take you 5 shots, but still. Furthermore, the H2 BR was often better than the sniper, as you could keep the sniper unzoomed at all but the farthest ranges.

- In your next post, you say that aiming and mental skill SHOULD be the factors that play into the BR, but now anyone can be good with it because it's all about positioning and teamwork...and the problem is what? Aiming does come into play, but so does teamwork and positioning. I don't see how those aren't skillsets in this game or why they shouldn't be. Why are tactics looked down upon over aiming skills? Furthermore, you think that increasing the range at which someone can accurately get a kill is going to make things better? Assuming that everyone plays with people of similar ranks, it's not going to be a huge deciding factor in skill, as that will already be established. All your doing now is extending range. There's no way you can tell me that people who haven't boosted or bought accounts aren't paired with people of similar skill. Changing the BR will not do any form of sorting that is not already done, as the better players are still better because they have better aim and tactics.


So the H2 BR was a precision weapon. What made the H2 BR so dominant was it's ease of use and it's hitscan functionality. I have seen videos demonstrating 4 shot kills with no part of the reticule actually touching a player. Add button glitches to that and you have a really devastating weapon. Now the Halo 3 BR is completely different and eliminating the spread would increase it's effectiveness at range, but in my opinion it would balance the weapon as it is too limited at the moment.

The game is not based upon realism. If the game was based upon realism it would look nothing like it does and there would be no aliens, no energy shields, no recharging health points, poeple would die quickly, master chief wouldn't be able to fly through the air at twice his normal speed to perform a 3m beatdown lunge. A game should not be based around realism anyway if it is going to be balanced and fun to play. The BR according to Bungie has spread to balance it, not because it's realistic.

Casual players would not really notice the difference unless they were playing high level players which would not be frequent.

I have never argued that the BR should be good at close range, I said you should at least have a chance with it. Especially online the BR is actually weaker at mid range because unless you're host a lot of the time 1 or 2 bullets won't register and if you aim perfectly you will then have to fire 5 shots in which time an AR or smg will have completely owned you. If 1 or 2 AR bullets don't register it doesn't matter due to it's high rate of fire providing they die within a clip. I can easily kill a BR wielder who is below level 40 I would say by using an AR at medium range, all I do is strafe unpredictably and zig zag toward them and they get confused because they expect me to charge in a straight line and miss shots.

The BR can never be a sniper rifle it takes too long to kill someone and is much too hard to use at long range especially in halo 3, even more so online. The sniper is not meant to be run around with as a utility weapon, you are meant to sit back and pick people off.

What I am saying here is that you don't have to be good with the BR to get a lot of kills with it. If a player has good positioning and creates opportunities where he/she can shoot weak players one or two headshots will get a kill, now this player may take 6 shots generally speaking to kill someone in a 1v1 BR duel. What I mean by players with the best aiming/mental skill being at the top is that there should be a larger skill gap between these players and less skilled players who are lacking in either quality. This doesn't have to be a numerical skill level gap, just more of an in game performance gap. Now to do this the skillfull weapons should be harder to use but more rewarding when used well ie BR having no spread, ideally it would be one shot. Also the carbine has a big spread and is not really that accurate. The easy to use weapons should take a little more skill to use or have less power. This way if someone gets the jump on you you still have a chance to kill them if you are more individually skilled, this means that a level 10 cant kill a level 50 when the 50 has half shields just by aiming in their general direction with the AR. In my opinion the balance between individual skill and teamwork leans too much toward teamwork. There are lots of players at a high level that are not good at leading so increasing the range of the BR would have some effect on their performance.



[Edited on 09.24.2008 6:39 AM PDT]

  • 09.24.2008 6:12 AM PDT

Posted by: fifthderelicte
Posted by: the_overmaster
Actually - according to the manual the Br is meant to be effective over "medium to long ranges". Unless long range means "longer than halfway across Guardian" than that argument is shot to hell..


The problem is that most people define "effective" as deadly accurate. This idea, obviously comes down to how you define those ranges. I wouldn't argue that I think the BR should be pretty accurate across Guardian. But some proposals are ridiculous. The BR is meant to be a mid range weapon, meaning it is great at that range. At long ranges, it is supposed to be "effective," meaning it can deal some damage. Bungie even said this themselves. They want a good mid range weapon, but effective at long range so it can ping snipers out of zoom, or annoy them a little. Effective by no means insinuates perfection, or even near perfection. Will a BR bullet have a decent chance to hit at long range? Yes. Effective. Will an SMG/AR/Shotgun bullet have a chance to hit at long range? No. Not effective.


You are confining yourself to a basic set of rules and not considering how the game would play if the BR was more effective at range and consistent. Just because Bungie say something doesn't mean that the game will be the most enjoyable or fair with those settings.

  • 09.24.2008 6:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: Prodigy117
So the H2 BR was a precision weapon. What made the H2 BR so dominant was it's ease of use and it's hitscan functionality. I have seen videos demonstrating 4 shot kills with no part of the reticule actually touching a player. Add button glitches to that and you have a really devastating weapon. Now the Halo 3 BR is completely different and eliminating the spread would increase it's effectiveness at range, but in my opinion it would balance the weapon as it is too limited at the moment.

The game is not based upon realism. If the game was based upon realism it would look nothing like it does and there would be no aliens, no energy shields, no recharging health points, poeple would die quickly, master chief wouldn't be able to fly through the air at twice his normal speed to perform a 3m beatdown lunge. A game should not be based around realism anyway if it is going to be balanced and fun to play. The BR according to Bungie has spread to balance it, not because it's realistic.

Casual players would not really notice the difference unless they were playing high level players which would not be frequent.

I have never argued that the BR should be good at close range, I said you should at least have a chance with it. Especially online the BR is actually weaker at mid range because unless you're host a lot of the time 1 or 2 bullets won't register and if you aim perfectly you will then have to fire 5 shots in which time an AR or smg will have completely owned you. If 1 or 2 AR bullets don't register it doesn't matter due to it's high rate of fire providing they die within a clip. I can easily kill a BR wielder who is below level 40 I would say by using an AR at medium range, all I do is strafe unpredictably and zig zag toward them and they get confused because they expect me to charge in a straight line and miss shots.

The BR can never be a sniper rifle it takes too long to kill someone and is much too hard to use at long range especially in halo 3, even more so online. The sniper is not meant to be run around with as a utility weapon, you are meant to sit back and pick people off.

What I am saying here is that you don't have to be good with the BR to get a lot of kills with it. If a player has good positioning and creates opportunities where he/she can shoot weak players one or two headshots will get a kill, now this player may take 6 shots generally speaking to kill someone in a 1v1 BR duel. What I mean by players with the best aiming/mental skill being at the top is that there should be a larger skill gap between these players and less skilled players who are lacking in either quality. This doesn't have to be a numerical skill level gap, just more of an in game performance gap. Now to do this the skillfull weapons should be harder to use but more rewarding when used well ie BR having no spread, ideally it would be one shot. Also the carbine has a big spread and is not really that accurate. The easy to use weapons should take a little more skill to use or have less power. This way if someone gets the jump on you you still have a chance to kill them if you are more individually skilled, this means that a level 10 cant kill a level 50 when the 50 has half shields just by aiming in their general direction with the AR. In my opinion the balance between individual skill and teamwork leans too much toward teamwork. There are lots of players at a high level that are not good at leading so increasing the range of the BR would have some effect on their performance.


Thanks for your intelligent and cordial response. By the way, I do agree with you about the BR being bumped up a bit, and I also agree about the skill gap. There definitely isn't enough of one. I mean, I remember H2 when I struggled to get a 35. Obviously it was different gameplay and I am much better now, but I could be a 50 and I don't think I deserve it. And I've definitely played plenty of generals who aren't as good as me, and they don't deserve it either. However, I like to argue, and it seems as there are few responses against the BR spread reduction, so I like to get the discussion going. Anyway...

Yes, the hitscan difference and magnetism and all those assistors would make the H3 BR much more skillful in terms of aiming. Nevertheless, I still don't think it would be all that difficult to factor in movement.

Of course the game isn't based off realism, but at the same time, you can't deny that it doesn't use realism for components in gameplay. Realism works for most things. Look at all the weapons and tell me realism isn't a factor. Automatic weapons are good at close range and have a lot of spread and large rate of fire, just like snipers have slow rate of fire with a lot of damage and accuracy. It just so happens that realism is what we as humans know in terms of how things function. Of course the storyline is not realistic, and some of the weapons aren't either. But the functionality and way things operate are largely realistic. Why do you think humans create different weapons? It's because each have their own advantages and disadvantages. The same is true in shooters. The BR is more than sufficient at mid range, and it is efficient at long range. It then lacks in extreme close range and extreme long range. But it's a burst weapon, 4 shot kill, headshot capable weapon. If Bungie would make it single shot capable and dead accurate, with burst option, go for it. But with the ease of aiming the BR has, to only aim 4 times and shoot to be guaranteed a kill from long range is too easy. You're essentially asking for a 4 shot carbine. Heck, the carbine takes nine individually placed rounds to kill. If they'd decrease the spread of the BR, I completely wouldn't mind if they upped the rate of fire and decreased the damage. It's already way too easy to get a headshot with it.

Casual players would because there are tons of second accounters. Now that experience would be even worse. But I don't really have anything to say against this, as I do think skill needs to be more differentiated. But I don't think that's so much the weapons as it is the ranking system. If the ranking system was accurate, nobody would notice a difference in skill. Everyone is where they are because they're good at the game. Now all you're doing is moving the range so you can kill from farther away.

The BR is already good at close range. Like I said, if the AR gets the first shot at close range (outside of melee range) or if you miss, you'll die. But at Gold 2 to the middle of Guardian (my definition of close range at its extent), there is no way an AR should win, all things being equal. The BR is very good at close range (outside of melee), and especially if coupled with grenades or teamfire, it is so easy to get a headshot. It has a huge range already, where it is an extremely viable option. Maybe not always the best or easiest to use, but very good.

Of course it's not meant to be a sniper. But if you increase it's range, it will be much easier to use at long range. And a 4 shot kill is only twice as much as a sniper body shotting. That's not a lot of shots with that kind of weapon.

Like I said, I agree with more than I'll let on to. But just for the sake of argument, here are my issues. But I really do agree with you about skill and I do agree that the BR could be changed and still be good. However, I'm a little wary as to what changes are made. Like I said, if they would change the spread WITH other aspects, it would be fine. But to just change the spread, I don't know if I'd like that. I think it would decrease skill. What I'd really like is carbine starts.



  • 09.24.2008 9:03 AM PDT

I forgot my Clan name...

ive recently been using the battle rifle often. now I hate the Assualt rifle! :D
its my favourite weapon and I always have it next to me!

I hate Team slayer and Love Team Br's!

  • 09.24.2008 9:47 AM PDT
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What really pisses me off, is the fact that Bungie DENIES bullet refunding. We have MULTIPLE videos, and MANY people have looked into it. Yet, Bungie is still "right". And funny how we get AU2 and no GAMEPLAY UPDATES were even touched. -blam!- you Bungie....for real.

  • 09.24.2008 11:42 AM PDT

Can't handle anything that the fans want? Seeing as though those who play your game for the BR tend to play a lot more often than the guy who plays once a week when he isn't playing a more weapon-balanced CoD4. Do you gear the AR for people who don't know how to play and want to fit in right away or do you gear it for people who never really have to get skilled at the game to pick up an easy spawn kill, and die? Sure, the AR is very practical for some one who doesn't play very often and for some one like my 9 year-old brother who won't accept the concept of a weapon you actually have to become skilled with (BR). Yet, i believe that the assault rifle truely creates an impenetrable threshold for truely skilled players who refuse to pick up a battle rifle that hinders them from reaching a prime in their Halo abilities. So, would rather on the other hand please those of us who are loyal to the game and log in every day and make a minor adjustment to a pretty basic weapon, or continue to reflect unprofessionalism towards fans of the game? (Not fans of the workers, sorry i dont want to hear about your personal lives in the Bungie Weekly Updates....) Appease the majority of your GAMEFANS and tweak that BR!!!

Cosmic Reach

  • 09.24.2008 6:49 PM PDT

<3 BR

  • 09.24.2008 7:03 PM PDT

I'm a fan.
I play only Halo 3, and I will play it a lot if I have time.
A lot.
I think the current BR is fine. A chance would disrupt my ideals. I have developed a reasoning to why the spread is a good thing.

  • 09.24.2008 7:08 PM PDT
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What I do not understand is why Bungie did not simply make the BR like the Pistol was in Halo1. Effective at long range, decent at close range, and best used at medium range. It was the perfect starting weapon, and not only that, it added a huge amount of skill into the game which is fine for both, casual gaming and competitive game play.

Firstly, the Halo1 Pistol was best suited for medium range. All the shots would register, it was spot on accurate, and required huge amounts of skill to use at medium range. Only an experienced player would be able to use it to its full potential at this range. Not only that, it was far more consistent than the Halo3 BR at this range.

At long range it was decently effective. The shots would reach, but huge amounts of leading were required and even more skill was needed to land shots. It was a good counter weapon to the sniper rifle, seeing as how there was no other counter weapon to the sniper in Halo1.

Finally at close range it was average. It could be trumped by a shotgun, assault rifle, or plasma rifle if used properly. But then again the players were on equal footing as the Pistol was a three shot kill. Again, an experienced player would be able to get out of a sticky situation no matter what range.

It was the perfect starting weapon. It required skill to use. It was consistent, powerful, and provided an effective counter weapon to the sniper rifle where as now it is extremely difficult to counter the sniper rifle at long range with the BR due to its inconsistencies.

If Bungie were to implement the effectiveness of the Pistol into the BR, it would make Halo3 near perfect. Bungie claims that the reason they changed the BR was to make it more realistic and to close the gap between competitive gamers and casual gamers, but it still does not do that. Not only that, it gets players very frustrated.

If Bungie did change the shot registration and consistency of the BR, it would widen the skill gap and bad players would get less matches with better players. It would make a better gaming experience for both, casual and competitive gamers alike.

Peace out guys

  • 09.24.2008 7:20 PM PDT
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i think the br should have faster bullets It is hard to lead shots across map

  • 09.24.2008 8:09 PM PDT

Posted by: fifthderelicte
Thanks for your intelligent and cordial response. By the way, I do agree with you about the BR being bumped up a bit, and I also agree about the skill gap. There definitely isn't enough of one. I mean, I remember H2 when I struggled to get a 35. Obviously it was different gameplay and I am much better now, but I could be a 50 and I don't think I deserve it. And I've definitely played plenty of generals who aren't as good as me, and they don't deserve it either. However, I like to argue, and it seems as there are few responses against the BR spread reduction, so I like to get the discussion going. Anyway...

Yes, the hitscan difference and magnetism and all those assistors would make the H3 BR much more skillful in terms of aiming. Nevertheless, I still don't think it would be all that difficult to factor in movement.

Of course the game isn't based off realism, but at the same time, you can't deny that it doesn't use realism for components in gameplay. Realism works for most things. Look at all the weapons and tell me realism isn't a factor. Automatic weapons are good at close range and have a lot of spread and large rate of fire, just like snipers have slow rate of fire with a lot of damage and accuracy. It just so happens that realism is what we as humans know in terms of how things function. Of course the storyline is not realistic, and some of the weapons aren't either. But the functionality and way things operate are largely realistic. Why do you think humans create different weapons? It's because each have their own advantages and disadvantages. The same is true in shooters. The BR is more than sufficient at mid range, and it is efficient at long range. It then lacks in extreme close range and extreme long range. But it's a burst weapon, 4 shot kill, headshot capable weapon. If Bungie would make it single shot capable and dead accurate, with burst option, go for it. But with the ease of aiming the BR has, to only aim 4 times and shoot to be guaranteed a kill from long range is too easy. You're essentially asking for a 4 shot carbine. Heck, the carbine takes nine individually placed rounds to kill. If they'd decrease the spread of the BR, I completely wouldn't mind if they upped the rate of fire and decreased the damage. It's already way too easy to get a headshot with it.

Casual players would because there are tons of second accounters. Now that experience would be even worse. But I don't really have anything to say against this, as I do think skill needs to be more differentiated. But I don't think that's so much the weapons as it is the ranking system. If the ranking system was accurate, nobody would notice a difference in skill. Everyone is where they are because they're good at the game. Now all you're doing is moving the range so you can kill from farther away.

The BR is already good at close range. Like I said, if the AR gets the first shot at close range (outside of melee range) or if you miss, you'll die. But at Gold 2 to the middle of Guardian (my definition of close range at its extent), there is no way an AR should win, all things being equal. The BR is very good at close range (outside of melee), and especially if coupled with grenades or teamfire, it is so easy to get a headshot. It has a huge range already, where it is an extremely viable option. Maybe not always the best or easiest to use, but very good.

Of course it's not meant to be a sniper. But if you increase it's range, it will be much easier to use at long range. And a 4 shot kill is only twice as much as a sniper body shotting. That's not a lot of shots with that kind of weapon.

Like I said, I agree with more than I'll let on to. But just for the sake of argument, here are my issues. But I really do agree with you about skill and I do agree that the BR could be changed and still be good. However, I'm a little wary as to what changes are made. Like I said, if they would change the spread WITH other aspects, it would be fine. But to just change the spread, I don't know if I'd like that. I think it would decrease skill. What I'd really like is carbine starts.



With regards to leading it is hard currently (with random spread) to actually work out how much you need to lead at longer ranges because the bullets go all over the place, however as I've stated before (referring to no spread) as long as your opponent is strafing you may over lead your shots and miss some because they changed direction. To perfectly four shot at longer range would be very difficult and pretty rare in my opinion and 5 or 6 shots would be more likely if your target was moving in a straight line.

I still don't agree with the realism argument and if you want to apply realism to the game you should do it consistently. Going to the length of having a random spread on the BR but allowing master chief to fly through the air at speeds he can't run at, to beat people down or sword lunge is not reality applied consistently. I think realism is a poor excuse for a flawed balance mechanism that introduces unnecessary randomness to the game.

Ideally the BR would be a 4 shot Halo 1 pistol in terms of function but with the H3 BR rate of fire. This weapon was difficult to use and I recently played a few games with my brother and leading correctly is very difficult. The carbine has a very fast rate of fire so it would not be a 4 shot carbine. If you a miss a headshot with the carbine it doesn't matter as much as the BR as the rate of fire is much faster so you aren't penalised as much.

So you are saying we should not improve the game because of second accounters?
Everytime a skillfull element is added to the game surely the skill cap increases and the skill gap widens?
Increased range also opens up more tactical options.

If you walk around a corner and meet an AR with your BR and you are just out of melee range it will require you to four shot the guy with the AR to win, this takes quite a lot of skill and the last shot needs to be accurate as you need all 3 bullets to hit. The bullet registration online is so bad that usually 1 or 2 bullets don't register and then you'll die.

A 4 shot kill with the BR at long range would be much harder than 2 body shots with the sniper. With the sniper you can just peek out and hit people, with the BR they will take cover and it will be much more difficult to get fast kills. A player is one shot to the sniper much longer than they are to the BR as well. In application the BR just wouldn't kill that fast without spread unless a player ran straight toward you at mid/long range.

Yes a no spread BR should be balanced by having less aim assist. I like the single shot aspect of the carbine but it has a spread too and I just prefer the feel of the BR, you don't feel like master chief with a carbine.

[Edited on 09.25.2008 4:26 AM PDT]

  • 09.25.2008 4:21 AM PDT
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It wouldn't be nearly as bad as the H2 BR, and 4 shotting would be hard at longer ranges. As long as they keep the hitscan the way it is, I wouldn't mind.

Of course realism isn't really the best argument, but I don't think you can just say Halo is futuristic so there isn't realism. When you look at all projectile weapons, they have incorporated realism to balance them out. So maybe the BR's random spread isn't so good because it is supposed to be more precision. It should still have spread. I think spread reduction and spread consistency are two different arguments.

Yes, the BR's ROF is slower, but still, do you realize how easy it is to headshot with a burst HS capable weapon? It's way too easy to kill people. I would be totally up for no spread (unless strafing the reticule while shooting) if they would decrease ROF. Now, it isn't all that hard to kill an AR outside of melee range, all things being equal, and if bullets register. With no spread, the BR would be more precision and should likewise be balanced as such. If it is more efficient (albeit in skilled hands) at longer ranges, it should lose some of its closer range advantage. Whether that's decreasing ROF, decreasing damage, or making it single shot capable so you can switch between modes, whatever. I just think it's way too easy to use in clos-mid range for something that's supposed to be a longer range, precision weapon. I truly love the carbine though. I've been using it a lot more, now that I've been playing MLG. If you're good with it, it dominates. But if you ever see someone who doesn't know what they're doing with it, it looks like they suck. Anyone can get kills with the BR. It's so easy to headshot, and adding range to it would just make it dominate more.

Of course we should improve the game. Ban second accounters :) But seriously, that wasn't saying to avoid improving the game, that was to say that lower levels would notice the change, unlike many would have you believe.

With extended range on the BR, I would say it would be as easy to kill with the BR as with the sniper. It is extremely hard to snipe when being pelted out of scope with the BR, but BRing is pretty easy zoomed or unzoomed. Yes, it's more accurate when zoomed, but still, it's quite easy to aim. Snipers need a zoom much more at ranges where the BRs don't rely on it as much to be effective. Not to mention, the sniper is a one of a kind on a map. The BRs are everywhere. Sure, the BR may take more than 2 shots by itself, but coupled with a friend's BR, it's only 2. With all the BRs lying around, or used as starts, you need to be careful about adding range.

The only reason I don't like the idea of a better BR is because I think it is far too easy to use. Headshots are easy. 4-5 shots are pretty easy. Team firing is easy. With the carbine, if you're good, you can make it look easy, but it takes so much more skill for all those things. Also, the BR is capable of killing 3 fully shielded spartans per clip, whereas the carbine only kills 2. That's 9 versus 6 kills from all the ammo. That encouarges more movement to get ammo, there's more detriment for missing a shot (if you miss one shot, you now can only kill one spartan and fully deshield another). It kills faster, but you have to be deadly accurate, especially with the last headshot. I don't see the BR ever being very skillful, as long as it's a burst weapon. That's why I like it as it is. It has a niche, but doesn't dominate. I wouldn't mind if Bungie could fix the carbine glitch so we could start with them, and make them more accurate. Yes, they would dominate, but that would take a heck of a lot more skill. Heck, give us zoomed pistol starts. That would be better than BRs too. I just really have no respect for the BR, though I use it a lot. Just look at how much everyone uses it. It's already the best weapon, by far.

[Edited on 09.25.2008 8:58 AM PDT]

  • 09.25.2008 8:57 AM PDT
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Time, Truth, and Hearts.

people probably prefer halo 2's br because there is no spread and no bullet "air time". Halo 3's br is more realistic and requires you to better your aim more than in halo 2. I have no problem with the halo 3 br as oposed to the h2 br. Either way people are going to master it and there will be br gods.

  • 09.25.2008 5:53 PM PDT

[HK]

wow how awesome
they made the BR weaker ONCE AGAIN
first it went from a 3 shot up close and 4 shot long, now it's 4½ close and 5 long
AR kicks BR's ass nowadays

boo Bungie!

[Edited on 09.25.2008 6:00 PM PDT]

  • 09.25.2008 6:00 PM PDT
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WoW quit whining people! Everyone is talking like they are an MLG pro, just remember that this is a mainstream game and that alot of different people play it! Not everyone who plays it is instantly a God so that is why the Br is the way it is so when people start playing they ain't getting constantly out slayed by some joke with a super Br, anyway if it is so weak how come the MLG pros can easily four shot people from long range?

  • 09.25.2008 6:26 PM PDT

~Silent Avenger~

I will stand by and hold on to the only thing I know true The Assassins

Ok isn't the BR spread supposed to make the weapon more realistic in the game. If anyone has experienced shooting an actual rifle at a high rate of speed it's really hard and if you're inexperienced almost impossible to get a close spread. In my opinion it seems as if almost everyone wants the BR to have the accuracy of a sniper.

  • 09.25.2008 7:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: Prodigy117
Posted by: Master Grim
After all this time, I still don't get what people are complaining about!

Bungie balanced all the weapons in Halo 3 so that they were all the same. That way people that aren't as skilled at lining up shots and reading the maps, can still play the game! Honestly, I'm terrible at Halo 3 because I'm the sort of person who likes to take aim and fire from afar or with precision accuracy in close. The wonderful thing is, you can do that, but you don't have to! You could just as easily throw grenades of hose people with AR bullets. It's unfair, but I'm not complaining though. I was too good at the first two games. I like it A LOT better now that casual gamers can step up and fight on par with me without putting in years of practice like I have!


The BR in Halo 3 was Bungie's single greatest achievement and probably their last... Like all things, a gaming company must grow and continue to grow or it'll die. Unfortunately Bungie has grown past the hardcore fanbase it started with and is now catering to casual gamers, who sadly, are very fickle.


The game should be balanced so that those with the highest degree of aiming and mental skill are at the top. You don't even have to be good with the BR to get lots of kills with it, a lot of the time it's all about positioning and teamwork.

There are too many weapons in halo that just require you to aim in the general direction of someone, the AR is just ridiculous and there is really nothing you can do if you have half shields and someone charges you with a full clip of AR ,if you have nowhere to run, the only way to prevent them hitting you is to get close and jump around them but then the crazy melee lunge comes into play and again just by looking in your general direction they can perform an unavoidable melee. This doesn't take a great deal of skill and the only time it does is when you sneak across the entire map to do it, otherwise it is just a matter of luck as your target is distracted or you spawn behind them. This to me is not fun, I at least want a chance when I have a disadvantage to kill somebody, this is what made the game so great, If we both had BRs I could strafe and it would actually be possible to kill someone if I had half shields. Although with the spread it's easier for people to get headshots so they quite often get lucky. Now if the melee was avoidable or had very little range I could jump around them and make myself an awkward target, however usually when you do that you are just met with a beatdown.

The individual can no longer excel and the game tends to revolve around trading kills. This is boring and in my opinion not fun.

If the spread was eliminated and the BR was made a touch harder to aim the game would be so much more fun, the BR also takes time to learn and at the lower levels would not be dominant by any means and at the higher levels almost everybody prefers to use the BR anyway thats why people always veto for BR starts etc. So altering the BR would benefit the better players and the casual players wouldn't even realise it was changed. Also if the Melee was nerfed a bit in terms of range and damage then you would always have a chance in close combat instead of having 1/2 shields and having practically no chance. The AR also has way too much range for the aiming skill required and I frequently get killed by just 2 or 3 bullets from long distance when I have no shields. The AR is so powerful that I could probably beat anyone who is average at BRing at mid range just by strafing as that has no effect on my aim but a huge effect on theirs.

Think of how much more fun the game would be and the awesome things you could do if these changes were made.


no this would make the gasme completly only about brs

  • 09.25.2008 7:28 PM PDT
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you know technically all weapons can get headshots..... one reason bf: bad company owns(besides that) if all weps got head shots like they should br would be one of the worst weps in the game(which it should)

  • 09.25.2008 7:30 PM PDT
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i dont see the problem with the br its the only weapon when i go in matchmakeing what takes skill. mlg playlist u wont see eny high ranks what are noobs in it because of skill thats why i love br .people complain who ant got skill well its about time they stopt complaing and got better like i did i got my 45 in mlg with out flinching so i think if u wanna get better get better with the br! mlg game types. why do you think pros joined mlg because they are sick of cheap ar noobs. ar should not be a start weapon br should be need eny br lessons messsge me and mlg tips messge my gamer tag thank you br is the way!!!!!!

  • 09.26.2008 12:59 AM PDT
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+1 for making the BR the default spawning weapon and increasing its accuracy.

or else just fix the Magnum.

  • 09.26.2008 4:34 AM PDT

The next person to assume I am talking about ranked, do us all a favor and look at what I play!

Posted by: iTz Tr1cksteR
Does anyone actually make intelligent posts in here about how horribly Bungie wrecked the BR in H3 in comparison to H2. The Spread is just ridiculous now.

Picture this: 2 good players BR-ing each other across map, say from S2 to top gold (or across guardian for the less enlightened). What is it that decides the outcome - in matchmaking, most likely lagg. In customs, the host often sponges. But that's the internet, it's gonna have lagg.

The problem is the BR is still unreliable on LAN. Why? SPREAD. Honestly take two players similar in skill and it really is just a matter of who gets lucky with the spread. This spread problem is even more evident in SWAT, I've hit still players, even spartans, without a red reticule. But it's not gonna change, at least not in the near future, and heck, Bungie did a good job everywhere else.

But please, think before you post in this thread: 'Is it helpful, is it necessary, does it improve on the silence?'


The BR was so great in Halo 2, because there were no counter weapons available normally. All we had was SMG's and those were good enough on their own, but we could not kill you from much distance. The reintroduction of the AR balances out the battle more, and the button glitches are gone. The BR is now no longer the uber gun it was in Halo 2. Pick up an AR and see why its reign ended.

  • 09.26.2008 2:29 PM PDT

The next person to assume I am talking about ranked, do us all a favor and look at what I play!

Posted by: xx Rakula xx
i dont see the problem with the br its the only weapon when i go in matchmakeing what takes skill. mlg playlist u wont see eny high ranks what are noobs in it because of skill thats why i love br .people complain who ant got skill well its about time they stopt complaing and got better like i did i got my 45 in mlg with out flinching so i think if u wanna get better get better with the br! mlg game types. why do you think pros joined mlg because they are sick of cheap ar noobs. ar should not be a start weapon br should be need eny br lessons messsge me and mlg tips messge my gamer tag thank you br is the way!!!!!!


Rakula seriously needs to learn to deploy the ARAM properly, or for you 'Good players" Assault Rifle And Melee. A well used ARAM attack can kill in a quarter of a second. Doubt anyone can even aim for my head that quickly.

  • 09.26.2008 2:45 PM PDT

The next person to assume I am talking about ranked, do us all a favor and look at what I play!

I have no problems with the BR, except you are at half shields and you suddenly die. I did not play much Halo 2, so I really have only known this BR, and it performs at a range between sniper and AR. It is not a god weapon, we do not want a god weapon. I gues that is why there is no fuel rod cannon or sentinel beam in matchmaking. Also, if you find a wee seven inches spread makes you so annoying, why don't you have psychotic tantrums from the massive spread on the shotgun?

  • 09.26.2008 3:03 PM PDT

Posted by: mooshmoossh
I like the BR just the way it is.

I really don't see what's wrong with it.


I agree, and if you really have a serious problem with the BR there is always the carbine.

  • 09.26.2008 3:32 PM PDT