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  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread
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I don't think it would harm Halo 3 gameplay if the BR was like in Halo 2.

  • 10.05.2008 6:39 PM PDT
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I don't think it would harm gameplay if the Battle Rifle was actually consistent.

  • 10.05.2008 8:12 PM PDT

Well hey, I think the BR is lovely. Today I was playing some Halo 3 and realised that I use the BR alot more then I do other weapons. It just happens to be my all around go to gun.

I really see no issues with it that catch my attention when I play, lag can always play part in any issues, but I've got nothing to complain about. The BR wins my heart <3

  • 10.05.2008 8:58 PM PDT

I want it to be a hit scan weapon again or atleast travel at the same speed as a sniper bullet, this "I dont have host so my 4 shot turns into a 5 shot br" is getting really dumb.

  • 10.05.2008 10:09 PM PDT
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I'm pretty sure its 1 out of 4 shots.... not one out of 3... But I could be wrong....

That's what Lukems said a couple weeks ago in the WU..

  • 10.05.2008 11:36 PM PDT
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I'm just curious as too why the BR was created to be inconsistent, was it intended or is it a design flaw?

  • 10.06.2008 10:53 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
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There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: dm8ns
I'm just curious as too why the BR was created to be inconsistent, was it intended or is it a design flaw?


Intended. As well as the AR, shotgun, mauler, Carbine, Magnum, SMG, and Spiker.

All have predefined 'random' aspects to them.

~B.B.

  • 10.06.2008 11:05 AM PDT
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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: dm8ns
I'm just curious as too why the BR was created to be inconsistent, was it intended or is it a design flaw?


Intended. As well as the AR, shotgun, mauler, Carbine, Magnum, SMG, and Spiker.

All have predefined 'random' aspects to them.

~B.B.


Thanks for clearing that up, now I bet you know what the next question is. Why?

  • 10.06.2008 11:07 AM PDT

Nothing wrong with BR, more realistic i think!

  • 10.06.2008 11:11 AM PDT
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cry babies who don't know how to use a BR cry about how much it sucks... they have no idea!

  • 10.06.2008 12:18 PM PDT

bungie has proven that a bunch of monkeys sitting in front of keyboards can randomly type out a masterpiece. the thing is, when you go to play the masterpiece, you cant help but notice all the monkey s**t smeared all over it.

it gets real old having to wait months for someone like mlg to clean off all the monkey poo.

all this could be avoided if bungie just playtested their game.

Shotguns/shield doors on snowbound? how did no bungie employee notice the rampant camping during the beta? It took 6 months after the game came out to remove the shotgun, and a year to remove the doors.

Equipment in h3? thankfully most equipment has been removed, but unfortunately bungie chose to remove the least offensive equipment, leaving monstrosities like bubble shields and regens still in. Apparantly its unfair that someone can poop jump off a radar jammer to bypass a shield door on epitaph, but its not unfair for the guy with the oddball to get an extermination from sitting in a bubble shield.

ar as spawn weapon in h3? this isn't WoW, I shouldn't have to go on an hour long quest for a medium range weapon every single time i spawn. (which reminds me- h2 smg starts, wtf? fire the employee who thought of that, or better yet, sign him up for the army and send him to iraq armed with onla a slingshot.

Bungie didnt even have the foresight or consideration to include a br start varient built into the game. They included 5 zombie varients, tank flag, and rocket oddball as default variants, but i have to waste a bunch of custum content slots making slayer brs, br ctf, br oddball...

No option to have the carbine as a starting weapon. to be fair, i guess we really arent missing out here, as the carbine now has the same range as the ar. in fact, I vote we simply take the scope off the carbine and put it on the shotgun, which has become a close contender for halo3's longest ranged non-headshot weapon.

And the br. you "balanced" halo by giving it more spread. Thanks to the increased spread i can shoot someone without having my crosshair on them, or miss someone by perfectly centering the crosshair on their chest. Im actually selling halo powerball tickets to gambling addicts now. They guess whether 1 shot, 2 shots, or 3 shots from each burst will register, then they guess which burst will be the killing shot. When i shoot an elite, people who guess the killing shot correctly get 3x the payoff, because its 3x more random. This wouldn't be possible if the br didn't have its new insanely slow rate of fire that gives my lottery players plenty of time to build up suspense or go on bathroom breaks in between shots. Thanks for introducing this new competitive aspect into halo Bungie.

Please, bungie, before you release your next project, test it. play a few other games, check out what the competition is up to. I guarentee if you play some competitive scrabble you will immediately notice how you need at least a little hand eye coordination to succeed in that. now that you know what hand eye coordination is, incorporate some into your next game.

or, maybe the past 2 games were a joke, if so, ha ha very funny. you got us. we've been rick rolled. can the joke be over? can you make a game that my grandma cant dominate at?

  • 10.06.2008 12:39 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: dm8ns
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: dm8ns
I'm just curious as too why the BR was created to be inconsistent, was it intended or is it a design flaw?


Intended. As well as the AR, shotgun, mauler, Carbine, Magnum, SMG, and Spiker.

All have predefined 'random' aspects to them.

~B.B.


Thanks for clearing that up, now I bet you know what the next question is. Why?


That's a good question. Why do dual SMGs "recoil" and your reticule raise up if you hold down both triggers? Why is the AR more accurate when you pulse-fire it versus full-auto fire it? Why does the plasma rifle or plasma pistol overheat if fired continuously? Why does the shotgun or mauler have an extremely large bullet spread?

The answers are the same: to balance the weapon. Sometimes game developers use game dynamics that mimic realism to bring in a balancing effect. For example, if you fire dual SMGs your reticule will slowly rise to mimic "recoil". It's the same reason with bullet spread. Bullet spread on a shotgun limits it's 100% effective range to less than 2WUs. The bullet spread on a BR limit it's 100% effective range to around 7WUs. Although the total range in which a BR is still decently effective is inherently larger than the shotgun's.

However, the predetermined random nature of a weapon is nothing new to Halo. The M6D in HCE had it. Lots of weapons in H2 had it. Pretty much all the weapons in H3 have it. It's just a way to balance weapons.

What people are complaining about has almost nothing to do with "randomness". Because if they genuinely had a problem with a weapon being "random" then they would have started complaining in HCE when it started. The problem they have is less that a weapon has "randomness" but that they feel that the weapon shouldn't. In this case the BR. So far I haven't seen a good argument of why the BR should be excluded from having a "random" range-limiting mechanic on it since almost all other weapons in H3 have it as well.

~B.B.

[Edited on 10.06.2008 1:29 PM PDT]

  • 10.06.2008 1:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: LARAINDOGG
cry babies who don't know how to use a BR cry about how much it sucks... they have no idea!


This coming from a Commander Grade 2.

[Edited on 10.06.2008 1:49 PM PDT]

  • 10.06.2008 1:47 PM PDT
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BerserkerBarage thanks very much for clearing that up, I've always been curious just and now I know. Cheers.

  • 10.06.2008 1:49 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: dm8ns
BerserkerBarage thanks very much for clearing that up, I've always been curious just and now I know. Cheers.


Sure, no problem. The next time you wonder why the BR has bullet spread, ask yourself at the same time why the AR or shotgun does? Obviously Bungie could make the weapons in their game perform any way they wanted, so why would they add that mechanic? They could make a plasma pistol shoot Gauss Hog rounds if they wanted to. But they don't because they feel it would negatively affect weapon's balance.

And realize that Bungie has been putting "randomness" in their games from the beginning. So the problem really can't be with "randomness" but rather whether or not you feel that the weapon should have it. And that's really all opinion, which is why this thread is like 100 pages long and I own about 10 of those pages.

~B.B.

  • 10.06.2008 2:01 PM PDT

Posted by: eraseme
all this could be avoided if bungie just playtested their game.

Shotguns/shield doors on snowbound? how did no bungie employee notice the rampant camping during the beta? It took 6 months after the game came out to remove the shotgun, and a year to remove the doors.

Equipment in h3? thankfully most equipment has been removed, but unfortunately bungie chose to remove the least offensive equipment, leaving monstrosities like bubble shields and regens still in. Apparantly its unfair that someone can poop jump off a radar jammer to bypass a shield door on epitaph, but its not unfair for the guy with the oddball to get an extermination from sitting in a bubble shield.

ar as spawn weapon in h3? this isn't WoW, I shouldn't have to go on an hour long quest for a medium range weapon every single time i spawn. (which reminds me- h2 smg starts, wtf? fire the employee who thought of that, or better yet, sign him up for the army and send him to iraq armed with onla a slingshot.

Bungie didnt even have the foresight or consideration to include a br start varient built into the game. They included 5 zombie varients, tank flag, and rocket oddball as default variants, but i have to waste a bunch of custum content slots making slayer brs, br ctf, br oddball...

No option to have the carbine as a starting weapon. to be fair, i guess we really arent missing out here, as the carbine now has the same range as the ar. in fact, I vote we simply take the scope off the carbine and put it on the shotgun, which has become a close contender for halo3's longest ranged non-headshot weapon.

And the br. you "balanced" halo by giving it more spread. Thanks to the increased spread i can shoot someone without having my crosshair on them, or miss someone by perfectly centering the crosshair on their chest. Im actually selling halo powerball tickets to gambling addicts now. They guess whether 1 shot, 2 shots, or 3 shots from each burst will register, then they guess which burst will be the killing shot. When i shoot an elite, people who guess the killing shot correctly get 3x the payoff, because its 3x more random. This wouldn't be possible if the br didn't have its new insanely slow rate of fire that gives my lottery players plenty of time to build up suspense or go on bathroom breaks in between shots. Thanks for introducing this new competitive aspect into halo Bungie.

Please, bungie, before you release your next project, test it. play a few other games, check out what the competition is up to. I guarentee if you play some competitive scrabble you will immediately notice how you need at least a little hand eye coordination to succeed in that. now that you know what hand eye coordination is, incorporate some into your next game.

or, maybe the past 2 games were a joke, if so, ha ha very funny. you got us. we've been rick rolled. can the joke be over? can you make a game that my grandma cant dominate at?


Haha, great post. I love it.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: dm8ns
BerserkerBarage thanks very much for clearing that up, I've always been curious just and now I know. Cheers.


Sure, no problem. The next time you wonder why the BR has bullet spread, ask yourself at the same time why the AR or shotgun does? Obviously Bungie could make the weapons in their game perform any way they wanted, so why would they add that mechanic? They could make a plasma pistol shoot Gauss Hog rounds if they wanted to. But they don't because they feel it would negatively affect weapon's balance.

And realize that Bungie has been putting "randomness" in their games from the beginning. So the problem really can't be with "randomness" but rather whether or not you feel that the weapon should have it. And that's really all opinion, which is why this thread is like 100 pages long and I own about 10 of those pages.

~B.B.


The problem is partially with "randomness," due to there being a much greater degree in Halo 3 than in the other two games.

  • 10.06.2008 3:59 PM PDT
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If you make the BR function like the carbine, I'm in. But the way the BR was made, it lacks enough skill for the amount of reward you get from it. Does anyone really think that a burst weapon is skilled? Seriously, how hard is it to see a guy's shields blink, and then know you don't need a perfect headshot, you just strafe your reticule across the head and you know the burst will finish it. Even with the extremely accurate BR in H2, this tactic was so easy to employ. The BR is a 4 shot, zoom capable, 3 fully shielded kill per clip/9 per weapon pickup (12 non shielded kill per clip, provided you don't get extremely lucky with 2 nonshielded people standing next to each other, which would make it more), fairly accurate weapon. It's great at closer ranges (not extreme close), losing only to the AR by a a quarter of a second or less, provided that all AR shots hit. And coupled with grenades, it's instadeath. The BR sucks and nobody wants to admit it. It's a rather skilless weapon. Almost everyone has it as their TOD. It's not hard to do. The only thing necessitating some skill with the BR is the way Bungie did the hitscan.

I would propose carbines (only 2 kills per clip/6 per gun pickup, single shot, must aim 9 separate times instead of 4, requires skill for a headshot, etc), but they are unable to be placed on certain maps and can't be starting weapons in that sense. What about a scoped pistol? That would take a ton more skill than the BR. So, if the BR is changed, I don't want your stupid changes which keeps it almost just as easy to use, but adding range. Give me a skilled weapon so I can actually feel good about BR kills and believe people when they say the BR takes skill. Make the ROF faster, decrease damage so it takes more aimed shots to kill, and make the burst practically a non-factor, making headshots take skill. Keep the hitscan setup the way it is so you have to lead targets, and add a little bit of distance to the ideal range (red reticule). Now you have a skilled weapon, which I will feel good about getting killed and killing with, rather than your souped up, piece of crap weapon most of you are advocating.

  • 10.06.2008 4:42 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: TheBigShow
The problem is partially with "randomness," due to there being a much greater degree in Halo 3 than in the other two games.


Really? Because from what I can tell the programed "randomness" of the H3 BR isn't that much more than the programmed "randomness" of the M6D in HaloCE. Now, it's hard to make a very good comparison, but the programed "randomness" in the M6D very easily could mean the difference between a TSK and FSK. Granted, Bungie gave you an option to mitigate the bullet spread but there are other weapons (like the H3 BR) that doesn't allow you to.

Maybe in the next game Bungie will make it so that if you fire the BR without it being "fire...fire...fire...fire" you'll be able to mitigate the spread. But then again, there are other weapons that you've never been able to mitigate bullet spread (shotgun).

Again, the vast majority of the people complaining about "randomness" don't care about "randomness". They only care about "randomness" when it influences the BR.

~B.B.

  • 10.06.2008 7:15 PM PDT

I love the Battle Rifle it is my second best weapon!

  • 10.06.2008 8:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: dm8ns
I'm just curious as too why the BR was created to be inconsistent, was it intended or is it a design flaw?
it was created as such to make people not use it as much as they did in h2 in h2 people didnt even rush rockets they rushed brs

  • 10.06.2008 8:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: TheBigShow
The problem is partially with "randomness," due to there being a much greater degree in Halo 3 than in the other two games.


Really? Because from what I can tell the programed "randomness" of the H3 BR isn't that much more than the programmed "randomness" of the M6D in HaloCE. Now, it's hard to make a very good comparison, but the programed "randomness" in the M6D very easily could mean the difference between a TSK and FSK. Granted, Bungie gave you an option to mitigate the bullet spread but there are other weapons (like the H3 BR) that doesn't allow you to.

Maybe in the next game Bungie will make it so that if you fire the BR without it being "fire...fire...fire...fire" you'll be able to mitigate the spread. But then again, there are other weapons that you've never been able to mitigate bullet spread (shotgun).

Again, the vast majority of the people complaining about "randomness" don't care about "randomness". They only care about "randomness" when it influences the BR.

~B.B.
ya no one complains about the smg random ness sometimes a smg can hit at br range othertimes it cant thats randomness what abot turret spreads why dont people complain about that brs arent htat great there easily owned by a carbine

  • 10.06.2008 8:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: fifthderelicte
If you make the BR function like the carbine, I'm in. But the way the BR was made, it lacks enough skill for the amount of reward you get from it. Does anyone really think that a burst weapon is skilled? Seriously, how hard is it to see a guy's shields blink, and then know you don't need a perfect headshot, you just strafe your reticule across the head and you know the burst will finish it. Even with the extremely accurate BR in H2, this tactic was so easy to employ. The BR is a 4 shot, zoom capable, 3 fully shielded kill per clip/9 per weapon pickup (12 non shielded kill per clip, provided you don't get extremely lucky with 2 nonshielded people standing next to each other, which would make it more), fairly accurate weapon. It's great at closer ranges (not extreme close), losing only to the AR by a a quarter of a second or less, provided that all AR shots hit. And coupled with grenades, it's instadeath. The BR sucks and nobody wants to admit it. It's a rather skilless weapon. Almost everyone has it as their TOD. It's not hard to do. The only thing necessitating some skill with the BR is the way Bungie did the hitscan.

I would propose carbines (only 2 kills per clip/6 per gun pickup, single shot, must aim 9 separate times instead of 4, requires skill for a headshot, etc), but they are unable to be placed on certain maps and can't be starting weapons in that sense. What about a scoped pistol? That would take a ton more skill than the BR. So, if the BR is changed, I don't want your stupid changes which keeps it almost just as easy to use, but adding range. Give me a skilled weapon so I can actually feel good about BR kills and believe people when they say the BR takes skill. Make the ROF faster, decrease damage so it takes more aimed shots to kill, and make the burst practically a non-factor, making headshots take skill. Keep the hitscan setup the way it is so you have to lead targets, and add a little bit of distance to the ideal range (red reticule). Now you have a skilled weapon, which I will feel good about getting killed and killing with, rather than your souped up, piece of crap weapon most of you are advocating.
props i totally agree

  • 10.06.2008 8:55 PM PDT

the snipernators rule

i just think the BRsucks so bad

  • 10.07.2008 10:59 AM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: TheBigShow
The problem is partially with "randomness," due to there being a much greater degree in Halo 3 than in the other two games.


Really? Because from what I can tell the programed "randomness" of the H3 BR isn't that much more than the programmed "randomness" of the M6D in HaloCE. Now, it's hard to make a very good comparison, but the programed "randomness" in the M6D very easily could mean the difference between a TSK and FSK. Granted, Bungie gave you an option to mitigate the bullet spread but there are other weapons (like the H3 BR) that doesn't allow you to.

Maybe in the next game Bungie will make it so that if you fire the BR without it being "fire...fire...fire...fire" you'll be able to mitigate the spread. But then again, there are other weapons that you've never been able to mitigate bullet spread (shotgun).

Again, the vast majority of the people complaining about "randomness" don't care about "randomness". They only care about "randomness" when it influences the BR.

~B.B.


Of course they only care about the randomness of the BR. The other weapons that are "random" are all close range spam weapons anyway. People complain about the BR due to their desire for a skill-based, utility, precision weapon. The BR is the closest thing they have to that right now, so thats what their focus is on.

Nobody cares if 3 bullets from your SMG randomly go a few degrees off course because its just a spraying bullet hose anyway, and the range of those weapons means that the magnetism usually pulls those bullets back anyway.

You can't lump all the weapons together and say, "look! This one is random so this one can be too!" No, you have to look at each weapon individually and see how it fits with all the others. Otherwise I could say, "look! The sniper rifles don't have any deviation, why can't all the weapons!?!"

[Edited on 10.07.2008 11:19 AM PDT]

  • 10.07.2008 11:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: Shadow Wolf7347
Posted by: fifthderelicte
If you make the BR function like the carbine, I'm in. But the way the BR was made, it lacks enough skill for the amount of reward you get from it. Does anyone really think that a burst weapon is skilled? Seriously, how hard is it to see a guy's shields blink, and then know you don't need a perfect headshot, you just strafe your reticule across the head and you know the burst will finish it. Even with the extremely accurate BR in H2, this tactic was so easy to employ. The BR is a 4 shot, zoom capable, 3 fully shielded kill per clip/9 per weapon pickup (12 non shielded kill per clip, provided you don't get extremely lucky with 2 nonshielded people standing next to each other, which would make it more), fairly accurate weapon. It's great at closer ranges (not extreme close), losing only to the AR by a a quarter of a second or less, provided that all AR shots hit. And coupled with grenades, it's instadeath. The BR sucks and nobody wants to admit it. It's a rather skilless weapon. Almost everyone has it as their TOD. It's not hard to do. The only thing necessitating some skill with the BR is the way Bungie did the hitscan.

I would propose carbines (only 2 kills per clip/6 per gun pickup, single shot, must aim 9 separate times instead of 4, requires skill for a headshot, etc), but they are unable to be placed on certain maps and can't be starting weapons in that sense. What about a scoped pistol? That would take a ton more skill than the BR. So, if the BR is changed, I don't want your stupid changes which keeps it almost just as easy to use, but adding range. Give me a skilled weapon so I can actually feel good about BR kills and believe people when they say the BR takes skill. Make the ROF faster, decrease damage so it takes more aimed shots to kill, and make the burst practically a non-factor, making headshots take skill. Keep the hitscan setup the way it is so you have to lead targets, and add a little bit of distance to the ideal range (red reticule). Now you have a skilled weapon, which I will feel good about getting killed and killing with, rather than your souped up, piece of crap weapon most of you are advocating.
props i totally agree


BR a skill weapon? Maybe more than some, but I wouldn't call it that. Read above...^

By the time the AR shoots it's 16 shots to kill, you have time to get off 9 and are just starting on your 10-12 shot. It's only a tenth of a second or two off from the kill time of the AR, you don't even have to track like you do with the AR (keep the reticule on them), you only have to put it on them four separate times, right as you're about to fire the burst. You put out almost as much lead, and almost the same amount of force in almost the same amount of time as the AR, and you don't even have to keep the reticule on them. BRs are bullethoses just like ARs. They may take a little more skill, but that doesn't mean they take much.


[Edited on 10.07.2008 11:40 AM PDT]

  • 10.07.2008 11:35 AM PDT