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This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

The carbine is an equally good weapon, if you can aim with it.

  • 10.27.2008 4:25 PM PDT

agreed if you die from that far away your an idiot!!!!! unless u get sniped. even then. lol ^^

  • 10.27.2008 4:26 PM PDT

It makes me sad that so many people are ignorant on this issue. Many intelligent people posted mountains of evidence explaining why the BR should be patched, and yet you all continue to argue points that have already been disproven, ignoring any evidence put in front of you.

Grow up. Read a book or two. THINK. Maybe then you'll see the flaws in your reasoning.

  • 10.27.2008 9:31 PM PDT

GOD IS GREAT. PRAISE DEDICATION DEVOTION TO AHURA MAZDA
.DEATH UPON NON-BELIEVERS, INFIDELS, AND THE EVIL LYERS

LESS LAG=AWESOME BR thats what needs to be fixed...and maybe a small tweak and WERE SET!

  • 10.28.2008 1:22 AM PDT

Sent the map 11/27. Hope it all goes well.

Sure it may be random, but if you think about it, the BR's shots go in the direction of a cone, and only a cone. That idea right there should get rid of the "Random" part and goes into your judgement of whether or not your shots will be effective in that particular range.

If you are really good with the gun, you would learn its strengths and weaknesses in different ranges, just like what everyone does when they had to learn what the other weapons can or can't do in this game.

  • 10.28.2008 1:31 AM PDT

Well if that cone is a different size every time because as stated by Bungie the degree of spread is random 2 players can aim in the exact same place and the outome will be decided by luck. This is not fun.

  • 10.28.2008 4:54 AM PDT

Posted by: Neon Stig
OH MY GOD I ACTUALLY HAVE TO WALK TO A BR SPAWN TO USE IT! OMFG!

Sure a BR spawn is nice, but it isn't the be all and end all. It just means you have to play slightly differently. Also I think this opinion comes from people who play nothing but Slayer. Can you imagine spawning with a BR in King of the Hill on Multi Team? What nonsense. The game and the weapon isnt designed for that.

As much as I prefer the BR, the AR is designed to be the all purpose utility weapon of the game, nothing special, but it provides you with a solid utility to pick up kills. If you aren't happy with that, sucks to be you. Because I love Halo 3, I actually enjoy it for what it is, rather than pining about small issues which makes no difference what so ever. Especially to casual gamers.

The MLG has made everyone think they're "pro" when they're not.


Hmmm? Boosted 50 no wonder you like the AR.

  • 10.28.2008 5:04 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Nokterne
It makes me sad that so many people are ignorant on this issue. Many intelligent people posted mountains of evidence explaining why the BR should be patched, and yet you all continue to argue points that have already been disproven, ignoring any evidence put in front of you.

Grow up. Read a book or two. THINK. Maybe then you'll see the flaws in your reasoning.


Mountains? Hardly. The only person that adequately argued a point was TehAttack and he stopped posting almost 30 pages ago because he realized that you cannot definitively prove that the BR "needs" patched or even should be patched. It's not broken, it's working as intended, and it works well enough to be effective but not so well that it overshadows all other weaponry.

What TehAttack and I got to was that he feels that the 100% effective range of the BR is too short. I don't. Neither does Bungie. I feel that if you want the BR to be able to 4sk then you have to risk being close enough to your enemy that if you happen to miss a shot you'll die. And that isn't just for BR vs. BR battles. If you don't mind leaving a battle to chance or having to mitigate spread you will knowingly operate the weapon outside of a range that you know can get consistent 4sks. That's your choice as the player but when you make that choice and you get screwed by the mechanic you have no one to blame other than yourself for your bad choice.

There are plenty of good arguments on both sides of this. So how about you Nokterne grow up. Read a book or two. Actually understand weapon balance and then post *your* thoughts instead of disgracefully piggy-backing people that apparently are far more intelligent than you.

~B.B.

  • 10.28.2008 7:58 AM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Mountains? Hardly. The only person that adequately argued a point was TehAttack and he stopped posting almost 30 pages ago because he realized that you cannot definitively prove that the BR "needs" patched or even should be patched. It's not broken, it's working as intended, and it works well enough to be effective but not so well that it overshadows all other weaponry.

What TehAttack and I got to was that he feels that the 100% effective range of the BR is too short. I don't. Neither does Bungie. I feel that if you want the BR to be able to 4sk then you have to risk being close enough to your enemy that if you happen to miss a shot you'll die. And that isn't just for BR vs. BR battles. If you don't mind leaving a battle to chance or having to mitigate spread you will knowingly operate the weapon outside of a range that you know can get consistent 4sks. That's your choice as the player but when you make that choice and you get screwed by the mechanic you have no one to blame other than yourself for your bad choice.

There are plenty of good arguments on both sides of this. So how about you Nokterne grow up. Read a book or two. Actually understand weapon balance and then post *your* thoughts instead of disgracefully piggy-backing people that apparently are far more intelligent than you.

~B.B.


The "intended range" of the BR and the "intended balance" of weapons in halo 3 is considered a joke by a lot of players especially players at the higher skill levels who have played the game the most and are the best at it.

I personally don't care what Bungie's intentions where/are because they have degraded a brilliant game, installment after installment. The fact is the spread introduces a random factor and with the size of the maps in halo 3 of course you are going to use the BR out of it's limited range, you either have to or you will die, that is certainly the case if a player starts BRing you and you have nowhere to run.

What the BR needs is to be a single shot weapon with less reticle magnetism and no bullet auto-aim as well as very little or no spread. The speed of the bullets (require leading) and the difficulty of aiming limit the effectiveness of the weapon at range already, it does not need further ill-conceived limitations.

As to weapon balance the weapons are so brilliantly balanced that you can spawn infront of a player wielding a BR with an AR/magnum (both less powerful than the BR) and get spawn slaughtered. Yep excellent balance I really see the thought process. Up until recently it was just the AR. Weapon balance in halo 1 was perfect, whatever you were up against you had a fair chance of coming out on top (with the use of skill). Obviously along came halo 2 and they sold out commercially and ruined this balance.

I find it amusing how all the less experienced and lower skilled players are the ones that are happy with the BR but the higher skilled players with more experience of the game and more experience of the series as a whole are the ones who dislike it. I think you are perhaps the second 45 who is pro current BR.

[Edited on 10.28.2008 9:39 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2008 9:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: Nokterne
It makes me sad that so many people are ignorant on this issue. Many intelligent people posted mountains of evidence explaining why the BR should be patched, and yet you all continue to argue points that have already been disproven, ignoring any evidence put in front of you.

Not so much as evidence as sound reasoning. But I agree. The Battle Rifle needs to be changed.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
It's not broken, it's working as intended, and it works well enough to be effective but not so well that it overshadows all other weaponry.

No it's not broken and yes it is working as intended, but that doesn't mean it doesn't warrant a change. Making the BR behave consistently would not make it "overshadow all other weaponry."

If you don't mind leaving a battle to chance or having to mitigate spread you will knowingly operate the weapon outside of a range that you know can get consistent 4sks. That's your choice as the player but when you make that choice and you get screwed by the mechanic you have no one to blame other than yourself for your bad choice.
Just because that's how the game is working doesn't mean it's good.

  • 10.28.2008 1:00 PM PDT

*if you dont get owned* *you will be pwned*

the battle rifle is fine how it is now i only use it if im out of bullets or there is a target a fair deal away and i dont have a sniper.
normally i just use the assault rifle because its faster

  • 10.28.2008 2:40 PM PDT

Call me fluffy the only alien that loves bow chica honk honk meowmatizeme cap'n.

Just a random thot, If you have ever played rainbow 6 vegas 2 if you put a sniper scope on a famas rifle it looks alot like a battle rifle.

  • 10.28.2008 2:56 PM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage

Mountains? Hardly. The only person that adequately argued a point was TehAttack and he stopped posting almost 30 pages ago because he realized that you cannot definitively prove that the BR "needs" patched or even should be patched. It's not broken, it's working as intended, and it works well enough to be effective but not so well that it overshadows all other weaponry.
First of all, I probably should have said "reasoning" instead of "evidence." I stand by my statement though. I don't think that there is another issue in Halo that can even compare to the BR spread in terms of the amount of effort a community has put into getting it changed.

Secondly, I'd like to see the post where TehAttack stated that he "could not definitively prove that the BR needs to patched." Link please.

What TehAttack and I got to was that he feels that the 100% effective range of the BR is too short. I don't. Neither does Bungie. I feel that if you want the BR to be able to 4sk then you have to risk being close enough to your enemy that if you happen to miss a shot you'll die. And that isn't just for BR vs. BR battles. If you don't mind leaving a battle to chance or having to mitigate spread you will knowingly operate the weapon outside of a range that you know can get consistent 4sks. That's your choice as the player but when you make that choice and you get screwed by the mechanic you have no one to blame other than yourself for your bad choice. So you are arguing that getting screwed by the mechanic, as opposed to getting screwed by a mistake in tactics, is a good addition to Halo? Or are you saying that we should have to take getting screwed by the mechanic into account when we are approaching situations in the game?

I really don't like the sound of either.

There are plenty of good arguments on both sides of this. I agree.

So how about you Nokterne grow up. Read a book or two. Actually understand weapon balance and then post *your* thoughts instead of disgracefully piggy-backing people that apparently are far more intelligent than you. This actually made me laugh out loud. I wasn't directing people like you to "read a book," nor was I implying that you don't think. My comment was directed more at the vast amount of people posting poorly written spam. Have you read some of the posts in this thread? At least 80% are complete garbage. My post was caused by a momentary lapse in judgement, causing me to absurdly believe that I could actually convince some of them to do something more productive with their time then mindlessly posting the same useless drivel on this thread. I'm tired of kids telling me "It's Bungies game" or "the spread is realistic."

Also, telling me that I'm "disgracefully piggy-backing" really isn't going to help your cause. I'd cut back on the namecalling if you want to come off as mature. Throwing aggressive insults back and forth on an internet forum is hopelessly pointless. You took my comment way too personally.

  • 10.28.2008 5:44 PM PDT

Posted by: Nokterne
So you are arguing that getting screwed by the mechanic, as opposed to getting screwed by a mistake in tactics, is a good addition to Halo? Or are you saying that we should have to take getting screwed by the mechanic into account when we are approaching situations in the game?

I really don't like the sound of either.



Would you fire a rocket at someone on the other side of the map? Would you try to use a shotgun on someone 20 metres away? If you did, you would get screwed by the mechanic because you made a mistake in tactics. Similarily if you attempt to engage someone outside of the BR's optimal range then your screwup in tactics results in you being screwed by the mechanics. I'm guessing you already do take into account weapon mechanics when approaching situations, which is why you wouldn't fire a rocket at someone halfway across the map.

Being screwed by the mechanic really goes hand in hand with getting screwed by bad tactics.

  • 10.28.2008 6:41 PM PDT

Although the spread is a huge factor - the main problem with Halo 3 is NOT THE SPREAD PEOPLE. If anything needs to be fixed - it is the fact that Halo 3, in my opinion, has the -blam!-iest net code of any game I have ever played, barring Castle Crashers. And guess what - the developers are fixing that issue. Guess what AU2 didn't do? That's right - no under the hood / gameplay fixes whatsoever. If Bungie would get up off their high horses and start realizing their game isn't perfect, then we might start seeing a more consistent Halo 3.

Oh - and I don't consider an optimal range of the Br to be from gold to top mid on Guardian - sorry, I'm sure the weapon designers in 2552 could do better than that.

An easier fix than a random spread (don't even bring up the realism argument) would have been to allow for a single shot Br, but decrease the autoaim and magnetism significantly (also speed up the rate of fire). Problem solved - people who have less skill than another player will lose most of their Br fights - and unless they are extremely good (and matchmaking should be able to separate these people from mere average players) they probably wouldn't be able to spawn camp, because guess what - if the gun requires intense amounts of skill to wield, the normal player just won't be able to use it effectively enough to spawn kill.

I wonder if people read over what they post on these forums, seriously. I mean, so many people just spam in this thread "Br is ok, I get kills with it" or "Don't change the Br to be more Powerful". And many other ill advised thoughts that I think Bungie actually listen to. Do us a favor, for the casual and competitive (and other) players - stop posting in these threads - you are poisoning the mind of Bungie into thinking that taking out skill in a game is a good thing. Bungie can salvage H3 with some serious reworking of the game - don't spoil that prospect for everyone, please and thank you. I'm not talking about players with valid concerns about not changing the Br, by the way, even if I disagree with their thoughts on this subject. It's the incessant spam that I really don't want to have to deal with when trying to read an intelligent debate.

  • 10.28.2008 7:07 PM PDT
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I see so many people saying that the BR needs to become 1 shot with a faster rate of fire, less auto aim, magnetism, blah blah blah. What they don't realize however is that we have that already. IT'S CALLED A CARBINE FOR CHRISTS SAKE! Get used to it, everything you want a BR to be changed to is what a carbine has, BR is just good for people with less aim. Due to the three shot ability, it partially brings back the H2 "face paint" ability, just pull the trigger, move the reticle over your target's head, and you have a nice convient headshot. That's why so many people get kills with it, they don't really have the ability to aim properly with a moderate skill single shot weapon, they just use the three shot ability that the BR has, go find some aiming skill by shooting the birds on The Pit, then tell me if the BR is good. The only time that I use the BR is on Campaign, where the three shot burst is useful for dispatching enemies by face painting, or when there is no carbine on the map.

  • 10.28.2008 11:47 PM PDT

Posted by: Nerd Boi
Posted by: Nokterne
So you are arguing that getting screwed by the mechanic, as opposed to getting screwed by a mistake in tactics, is a good addition to Halo? Or are you saying that we should have to take getting screwed by the mechanic into account when we are approaching situations in the game?

I really don't like the sound of either.



Would you fire a rocket at someone on the other side of the map? Would you try to use a shotgun on someone 20 metres away? If you did, you would get screwed by the mechanic because you made a mistake in tactics. Similarily if you attempt to engage someone outside of the BR's optimal range then your screwup in tactics results in you being screwed by the mechanics. I'm guessing you already do take into account weapon mechanics when approaching situations, which is why you wouldn't fire a rocket at someone halfway across the map.

Being screwed by the mechanic really goes hand in hand with getting screwed by bad tactics.


OK lets take an example. You are playing team BRs on Valhalla. There is an opponent sitting top mid with a BR and AR. You sneak to his left trying to get within "the effective range of the BR" (even the concept of this is hilarious) however he spots you before you reach that range and starts firing. You return fire as there is no nearby cover; the random factor of random spread comes into play.

Another example team brs on the pit. You and a player from the opposing team both charge the overshield. You both drop down from sword ramp and therefore have no means of cover and commence BRing.

The limited range of the BR itself just takes away from the playability of the game. Either you risk it's randomness or you sneak around the map to avoid it, which isn't really a viable alternative. Even if you aren't having a BR duel with somebody, say you are helping your teammate by putting shots on a player from long range the efffectiveness of those shots is random so again random factors affect the games outcome.

I could list examples of this all day long. Essentially the only tactic to avoid getting "screwed by the mechanic" is to sneak around the map all day long and run away if you are engaged out of range even if you're going to die, sounds fun. Please accept this method of limitation is fundamentally flawed.

To be honest we're fighting a losing battle really, I mean look at what Bungie put on the map: Respawning fusion cores talk about lucky kills, cones infrequent but still seriously, your frag grenade explosion catapulting your opponents plasma into your face for an insta-stick yep he really deserved that kill, sniper bullet ricochets, rocket auto aim that usually results in the player firing the rocket missing because instead of the rocket hitting the ground at the opponents feet it auto aims him as he jumps and flies underneath him. The list goes on.

I see no reason why the BR can't have a bit of range as I posted before make it more difficult to use but give it some range. This way skilled players will be able to use it effectively at range but their opponent won't find that a problem as they will have their own BR to fight back with. All the players who love spraying and praying can continue to revel in randomness and use their ARs.

With regards to the carbine I would not want a BR that takes 7 or 8 shots I would want 5 max with the current kill speed but a bit more consistency which I think would be gained by having it single shot, especially when it comes to bullet registration online. Again in terms of spread the carbine should have the same changes applied. This provides an alternative to the Br but at the moment I would not say the carbine is actually much harder to use than the BR, I caertainly don't find it to be, infact in 1v1 situations I find I do very well against BRs.

Arguments about the Br overpowering the sniper do not really apply look at the BR in halo 2 (not that I like halo 2 that much) the sniper was still a very powerful weapon.

  • 10.29.2008 3:40 AM PDT

Or are you saying that we should have to take getting screwed by the mechanic into account when we are approaching situations in the game?I do like the sound of this. Defeating the enemy thanks to getting the first shot or having a better position or out-teaming them seems more reliable than winning by the unpredictable combination of aim, movement and timing. I have no means to know the enemy's proficiencies in these traits, and thus a the result of an even-ground battle is more or less random from my point of view, without spread or not.

  • 10.29.2008 5:02 AM PDT
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  • Noble Member

HI

see, at first when i started to play, i though that ther assult rifle was the best way to go. but my buddy john told my that with skill, the BR is the perfect weapon, so he trained me to use it (in forge, campain, and in customs). now that i know how to use it, i crush my foes and laugh as I T-Bag them to the ground!

  • 10.29.2008 5:34 AM PDT

Well in that case lets just play hide and seek so that whenever you see somebody first you are the victor of that encounter. *sigh*

Posted by: Mutoid Log
I do like the sound of this. Defeating the enemy thanks to getting the first shot or having a better position or out-teaming them seems more reliable than winning by the unpredictable combination of aim, movement and timing. I have no means to know the enemy's proficiencies in these traits, and thus a the result of an even-ground battle is more or less random from my point of view, without spread or not.

  • 10.29.2008 5:59 AM PDT

lol, you sir have learned well.

Posted by: zat
see, at first when i started to play, i though that ther assult rifle was the best way to go. but my buddy john told my that with skill, the BR is the perfect weapon, so he trained me to use it (in forge, campain, and in customs). now that i know how to use it, i crush my foes and laugh as I T-Bag them to the ground!

  • 10.29.2008 6:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Nerd Boi
Would you fire a rocket at someone on the other side of the map? Would you try to use a shotgun on someone 20 metres away? If you did, you would get screwed by the mechanic because you made a mistake in tactics. Similarily if you attempt to engage someone outside of the BR's optimal range then your screwup in tactics results in you being screwed by the mechanics. I'm guessing you already do take into account weapon mechanics when approaching situations, which is why you wouldn't fire a rocket at someone halfway across the map.

Being screwed by the mechanic really goes hand in hand with getting screwed by bad tactics.
Here's the thing. You CAN kill someone across the map with the rocket launcher. If you could predict someones path and fire a perfectly aimed rocket, you could get the kill. With the BR, no matter how well you aim, there is always the chance that you will get screwed by the mechanics of the gun, as opposed to a mistake in aim or tactics.

And don't even get me started on my issues with the shotgun.

  • 10.29.2008 6:35 AM PDT

Posted by: Nerd Boi
Would you fire a rocket at someone on the other side of the map? Would you try to use a shotgun on someone 20 metres away? If you did, you would get screwed by the mechanic because you made a mistake in tactics. Similarily if you attempt to engage someone outside of the BR's optimal range then your screwup in tactics results in you being screwed by the mechanics. I'm guessing you already do take into account weapon mechanics when approaching situations, which is why you wouldn't fire a rocket at someone halfway across the map.


You're confusing the issue here. We're not complaining because we don't understand that the BR has an "optimal range." We're complaining because we feel that range is much too short. Most of the time, you are forced to engage outside that optimal range due to the way the game plays out. The weapons aren't properly facilitating the gameplay, and thats a bad thing.

The game would benefit in so many areas if the range was opened up, rather than the close range cluster-**** we have now. Every single weapon aside from the sniper and lazer have a max range of about 20 meters. Thats bad for gameplay, as it focuses it only on one aspect in a game that should allow people to play in all areas.

Whatever happened to Halo being played how you want it? Why am I forced, by the poor design choices, to play a close range game when its not always the best way to play? There a plenty of methods to give the BR longer range while simultaneously making it more diffucult to use, which would alleviate almost all the problems people are having.

Why are we given beautiful, open maps with great lines of sight and angles and then forced to charge each other spraying our weapons until we get into the ridiculously short "optimal range?" Why can't we have a weapon that allows mid-range players to play at mid-range while close-range fighters can use their "tactics" to effectively use all the close-range options they have?

[Edited on 10.29.2008 9:15 AM PDT]

  • 10.29.2008 9:13 AM PDT

Posted by: TheBigShow
You're confusing the issue here. We're not complaining because we don't understand that the BR has an "optimal range." We're complaining because we feel that range is much too short. Most of the time, you are forced to engage outside that optimal range due to the way the game plays out. The weapons aren't properly facilitating the gameplay, and thats a bad thing.

The game would benefit in so many areas if the range was opened up, rather than the close range cluster-**** we have now. Every single weapon aside from the sniper and lazer have a max range of about 20 meters. Thats bad for gameplay, as it focuses it only on one aspect in a game that should allow people to play in all areas.

Whatever happened to Halo being played how you want it? Why am I forced, by the poor design choices, to play a close range game when its not always the best way to play? There a plenty of methods to give the BR longer range while simultaneously making it more diffucult to use, which would alleviate almost all the problems people are having.

Why are we given beautiful, open maps with great lines of sight and angles and then forced to charge each other spraying our weapons until we get into the ridiculously short "optimal range?" Why can't we have a weapon that allows mid-range players to play at mid-range while close-range fighters can use their "tactics" to effectively use all the close-range options they have?


100% Agree.

  • 10.29.2008 10:10 AM PDT