- BerserkerBarage
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- Exalted Mythic Member
MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.
Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.
Posted by: TheBigShow
Yes, people ask for things to be changed all the time in Halo. Its up to Bungie to use their discretion to determine those complaints that are legitimate and those that aren't. Unfortunately, Bungie is not infallible, and they, in my opinion, have a very poor grasp of real game balance. Its their choice what to change and what not to change. That doesn't mean that we can't continue to argue our case, especially when there is a very overwhelming amount of people who want the change.
It's certainly not overwhelming. That's the worst case of hyperbole I've seen recently. I almost stopped reading your post because of that crap and wasn't even going to respond but I figured I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. The vast majority of people are either apathetic about BR spread or don't want it changed. Not to make an argument to the majority here but you can see that by looking at this thread. Sure, it's filled with "fluff" but most people have said that they currently do not see a problem with the BR or how it operates or that they absolutely do not want it changed.
Regardless, even if you had a legitimate complaint about an issue Bungie doesn't have to respond to it. Even if the H3 BR was so-called broken they don't have to fix it. They designed it to work in a certain fashion and so far it is. Whether or not you agree with that game decision is your own personal opinion. So regardless of whether or not your argument is legitimate it ultimately comes down to their decision. Which is quite obviously what it is. And what it has been for the past 7 years.
You're right, there is no way to "prove" that the BR needs to be changed. It doesn't need to do anything. However, using extensive experience and analysis, many people, myself included, feel that the game would benefit greatly from a tweaked BR. Many people have tried the current BR and found it sorely lacking, now why can't we try a different version? You might find you actually like it better. We'll never know until we try it.
And I've clearly shown why making any change to the Battle Rifle's mechanics can drastically alter the game and effectively destroy weapon's balance. Prime example? 1.1 patch for Halo 2. The game played almost 100% different when you compare the game pre and post patch. Many people have tried the current BR and either don't have a problem with it or don't want it changed. Why should we change it? Why invest the time and resources (especially when they have concretely said they wouldn't) to change something that has historically completely altered (for the worse) how the game is played? Many people, myself included, feel that a tweaked BR would greatly harm weapon balance just like it did in Halo 2. I can demonstrate how BR-starts alone can harm balance in Halo 3, let alone coupling that with improving the effectiveness of how it is currently. I don't have to try arsenic to know it's poisonous after I watch it kill something else.
But not to the extent it currently is. The M6D was very controllable, predictable weapon, provided you had the skill to use it correctly. Sure, it was random to a very small degree, but not the degree that it harmed the gameplay and not to the degree that you could get screwed by it, like the Halo 3 BR. I don't care about Halo 2; that game was even worse than Halo 3 and I would prefer to simply ignore it.
The M6D was often times predictable in a controlled environment such as LAN. Using the M6D over the internet via XBC showed how absolutely unpredictable a single-shot weapon could be when it has to deal with a ping of 100ms and up. Having to lead shots is fine when the game-state you're looking at is reflective of the actual game-state. When it's not; the mechanics of the M6D can screw you just as much as the H3 BR mechanics. Try leading shots against host on XBC on Sidewinder and see how uncontrollable that weapon's mechanics were when it came internet latency. Even a weapon that has a low variance can suffer just as much.
We are taking game mechanics into consideration; it is apparent to me that you aren't. You cite examples of random weapons with apparently little regard with how they fit into the big picture. Extreme randomization makes sense in the context of some weapons and not in others. You're completely ignoring game mechanics if you apply a blanket assumption of "one weapon has random elements so all of them should."
I'm not making that argument or else I'd be suggesting that the sniper rifle, rocket launcher, and spartan lazer should have random elements as well. You keep repeating this piss-poor example of a strawman argument and I sincerely hoped that you'd quit but you have not. The spread mechanic is the same principle for the AR as it is the BR. At a certain range the spread is easily mitigated. Past that the spread becomes increasingly more of a factor. You say that the spread mechanic makes sense for some weapons but not all. I agree. The spread mechanic makes sense for the BR as well as the AR/shotgun/mauler/plasma rifle/M6G/etc. However, I do not believe on a weapon that is increasingly rare while having other factors which controls it should necessitate a "random" mechanic (ie the sniper, splazer, rockets). Whether or not you feel it does comes down to personal preference and trying to argue that is rather pointless and rather tiresome.
Once again, you're completely ignoring the bigger picture. Yes, I use close range weapons at close range and don't expect them to work well outside that range. I also don't expect the BR to work outside of its incredibly limited range. I'm not confused as to why my BR isn't working at long range; I know why it isn't. We're arguing to have that changed. I have plenty of tweaks I would make to all the weapons if I had the choice, but the BR is currently the most glaring and game-breaking.
We don't have a problem with limiting weapons ranges, what we have a problem with is the complete lack of mid-range combat due to limiting practically every weapons range. There is an extreme focus on close-range spam in this game, and we simply want more ranges from which to engage.
There isn't a complete lack of mid-ranged combat. Your hyperbole is starting to get unbearable. You have a problem with mid-range combat that doesn't provide 100% effective results when you knowingly use a weapon outside the range in which that is guaranteed. And since "mid-range" is a relative subjective term it's rather hard to make any intelligent argument here. Something that TehAttack and I said about 40 pages ago. What you consider mid-range will probably deviate from what I consider mid-range.
You have all ranges in which to engage in Halo 3. You just can't do so without encountering bullet spread more often than not.
Yes, we have a problem with how it affects the BR, considering the BR is the only "mid"-range staple we have. Why does every weapon have to be a random, close-range bullet hose? Of course we don't have a problem with the AR's spread because we, unlike you, are taking the entire balance of the weapons and the game into consideration. You seem to think that if something is applicable to one weapon, its applicable to them all. Thats a very ignorant view.
Oh goodie, more hyperbole and fallacies. How fun. Not every weapon is a random, close-range bullet hose. Making such grandiose statements is so laughable and pathetic. More pathetic than anything else. You don't have a problem with the AR's spread because you think that the limitation put on the weapon by that spread is good. I think that the limitation put on the BR by that spread is good. And here we are again at an impasse.
Again, I'm obviously not making the argument that if something is applicable to one weapon it is applicable to all of them. Please cease this sad, misguided, viewpoint. Oh, and I woudn't comment on ignorant views when you're the one projecting them.
The M6D was incredibly balanced in Halo CE. It ensured that, generally, the better player won, either by facilitating their smart tactics, shooting skill, or using positional advantage. This may not fit your idea of balance, where the outcome is determined by what weapons each player has rather than each players ability, but it was a much more fair and engaging balance.
Were the other weapons in HCE like this? No? Than the M6D is not a balanced weapon in regards to HCE. A balanced weapon has pros and cons. The M6D had all the pros and almost no cons. Especially when compared to the other weapons in the game. It was unbalanced.
Slayer Pro did exist in Halo CE. You started with AR primary, Pistol secondary.
I'm quite aware that FFA Slayer Pro shipped with HCE. Way to attempt to side-step the point. The point was that Halo HAS NEVER been set up in a "competitive" fashion by default. Something that people seem to either forget or chose to ignore.
Halo CE, on default slayer settings, was not very competitive. That was fine, however, because it provided players with the tools to create an incredibly balanced and competitive game. The most competitive game in console history, actually. Despite all of Halo 3's options and settings, we still can't create a game that comes even close to touching Halo CE's balance because we can't change the core gameplay elements.
YES! Finally. Someone has admitted the truth all along. Halo with default settings has NEVER been very competitive. So stop trying to change the game to that way. Whether or not you think H3 comes close in options to HCE is on you. I think the options for weapon placement and map layout is a big improvement over HCE.
I'm out of characters...and patience
~B.B.