- TheBigShow
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- Exalted Mythic Member
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
What I find humorous is that you keep saying that my arguments are rubbish but you're not smart enough to combat them with anything other than ad hominems.
Your arrogance is embarrassing, especially considering how you’re actually not making good arguments, despite what you think. Look, I can’t change your opinion and I can’t make you gain a better understanding of game balance and I can’t force you to read our complaints with any sort of comprehension. You’re being an ignorant, puerile debater, so lets cut it with the arrogance crap, its making you look like a complete fool.
If you’re so intelligent then please, bathe us in your infinite wisdom and make an actual relevant argument other than “The AR and Shotgun have spread too! LOLOL.” Wow, what a revelation, next you’re going to be telling me more incredible surprises like XBC has lag, as if I’ve never played it before… oh wait, you already did that. Then you went on to display more ignorance by trying to tell people that the Halo CE pistol was uncontrollable and unpredictable. That’s not just a bad argument, that’s patently false.
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
You might see them as irrelevant but they are quite relevant none the less. What Bungie has done in Halo CE is still relevant to what they are doing today. Which is why I bring that up. People don't understand that HCE on it's prima facie nature was not this "uber-competitive" game that people try to make it out to be. It simply wasn't by design. It had the ability to be changed into that if that's how you want to play (just like Halo 2 and more so with Halo 3). When the more "competitive" aspects of the community look back on their time spent in HCE they are looking at playing the game off of the default settings. They probably played "Team Slayer Pro" and probably had AR/M6D starts on every map. That's all fine and good if that's how they wanted to play (I typically did because I played mainly CTF) but that doesn't change the fact that the default version of Team Slayer even in HCE didn't start you with a weapon capable of headshots (the M6D except on 3 maps) and had a mechanic that physically punished you for killing people on the other team in succession (kill penalty). The default version of HCE had built in mechanics in which most people would consider "newb-friendly"
HCE was an “uber-competitive” game with a few minor tweaks. Halo 3 is not, nor will it ever be unless we are given the options to change the core elements. You seem to think that, other than the weapons and the maps, Halo CE and Halo 3 are the same game. They aren’t. Just because Halo 3 has more customization options, Halo CE is still a much more competitive game. Just like I can’t force you to understand game balance, I can’t force you to have all the experience that might be necessary to realize that.
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
So it really should come to no surprise to anyone that has followed the Halo game series that Bungie often places things in their mechanics that helps "level the playing field" for the experienced player compared to the "newb". Now that very much may be not how you played the majority of your time on HCE but it's how it is regardless.
No, Bungie has placed mechanics in the game that make sense, like a shotgun with limited range, or an AR with spread, nothing like what we have in Halo 3. Good players are severely restricted by the weapons available to them; that was never the case in Halo CE, unless you chose to only have close range weapons.
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
So while The Big Show might enjoy saying that I prefer playing a "dumbed down" version of the game; I just have a far better understanding of history so to speak. I understand that Bungie has always made the game approachable for "average" players while experienced players will still be able to more than likely come out on top by default. Which is why he finally admitted that Halo (by default) has never been a very competitive game. Because it hasn't. So why are people still that much more surprised that Bungie would add a mechanic that they've used on dozens of other weapons to the weapon that dominates the most resulting in a "less competitive" game/play?
A far better understanding of history? Right, that’s a great assumption to make (considering I joined this site over a year before you did). Yes, the game has always been approachable for the “average” players, but it’s not because of good or bad game balance. All Halo games are approachable because of how good the controls are, how smooth the games feel, and how fun the games are to explore. A new player isn’t going to say, “ZOMG this BR has a range much too far, I’m not having any fun.” Their not going to notice any of that.
What was great about Halo CE was that if something happened, even a new player could point out what went wrong: my aim was off, I fell off the ledge, his grenade hit me. In Halo 3, not even experienced players can explain what happens sometimes; that’s bad.
“Which is why he finally admitted that Halo (by default) has never been a very competitive game.”
Oh yes, your masterful arguments and incredibly intelligent probing finally got me to see the error of my ways and admit that default Slayer on Halo CE wasn’t that competitive. That, or I’ve never stated otherwise and it wasn't a confession as much as it was a simple statement of fact. However, default slayer wasn’t unbalanced because of uncontrollable elements or core game mechanics, like Halo 3, it was simply unbalanced because of the starting weapon and a few easy-fix settings. I’ll take that over a game that doesn’t allow you to fix it at all.
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Well for me during my time on XBC I typically averaged a ping from around 100ms to 200ms. Not terribly bad for a tunneling program being run through a router and a really long CAT-5 cable. However, the ping levels could very well make it easier or harder to use the M6D (especially at range where leading shots with it was far harder) especially from game to game. If you played against a host that you had a 50ms ping compared to a 250ms ping you had to compensate for it less (for the 50ms). It made games of CTF where most of the fighting happens at range because of the larger maps tolerable. However, there were often times where it seemed that I'd get screwed by the M6Ds bullet speed mechanic because I had to lead more than the host did.
Yes, it was difficult to use the pistol off-host XBC; NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT. We had issue with your claim that the pistol was unpredictable and uncontrollable, which it most definitely wasn’t, 100ms or not. You didn’t get “screwed by the M6D’s bullet speed mechanic,” you simply missed your shot because you didn’t lead enough, which is something you can correct through practice and experience. Its irrelevant anyway, because Halo CE was never intended to be played over an internet connection. Its sad, however, that a game that wasn't even designed for it is more predictable and controllable in a terrible online enviroment than one that was designed for it.
You can’t correct a random bullet spread that only allows you to effectively shoot 20 feet (yes, that’s a hyperbole!, your favorite word! Feel free to continue to point out my use of exaggeration), no matter how much you practice or how good you are.
Posted by: Breezy131
Posted by: TheBigShow
I’m not asking for default settings Halo to be changed.
Umm... Aren't you? Aren't you basically asking for the Battle Rifle to become more consistent, more of a utility weapon like the M6D?
I'm not saying I disagree, though. I think Halo 3 would benefit from this.
Default settings on Halo 3 have you spawning with an AR. So changing the BR would have little effect. I realize that there are still BR's on the maps, but I want the BR's to be harder to use, but more rewarding to those who can use them extremely well.
[Edited on 10.31.2008 9:35 AM PDT]