Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Only BR Thread
  • Subject: The Only BR Thread
Subject: The Only BR Thread

the br - :)

  • 11.03.2008 11:40 AM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
PS, Halo 3 has battles taking place at every range, depending on the level.
That goes without saying. The problem is that Halo 3's long range combat is awful. The spartan laser and sniper rifle are the only two weapons that are consistent and effective at long range. This is particularly bad for a game like Halo 3, where the majority of the maps are very large.

Here's a common situation in MM. Two players, each with a BR, see each other at a range that is beyond this so-called "optimum range for BR," though they are both within "red-reticle" range. The current nature of the weapon allows them to fire and do damage to each other from this range. However, the amount of damage they can do to each other at this range is almost completely random. Unless one of them can get to cover (which is often impossible, due to the slow player movement speed), the winner of this encounter will be decided purely on who is luckier.

  • 11.03.2008 1:33 PM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: TheBigShow
Effective range means the range where you can realistically expect to use the weapon to its full potential.


This is in direct contradiction to...

Posted by: TheBigShow
The effective range of the sniper rifle is easily 3 times that of the BR. If you think otherwise, you're misunderstanding the meaning of "effective."


No, I quite understand the meaning of "effective" you just are using the same term 2 different ways. So which is it? Complete range of effectiveness or range in which the weapon can be 100% effective? Or hell, even the range in which the weapon can be 100% effective consistently?

I'll go ahead and clear things up for you. The range in which the sniper rifle can be consistently 100% accurate (when coupled with user error) is no where near 3 times the distance of it's BR counterpart.


Thanks for "clearing things up for me" chief. Unfortunately, thats wrong. Lets take a look at what I said and use some reading comprehension. Here, I'll walk us through it as you, despite your vast wisdom, seem incapable of doing so on your own.

"Effective range means the range where you can realistically expect to use the weapon to its full potential." This has nothing to do with "user error."

The range where you can realistically expect to use the weapon to its full potential. A BR's "full potential" is a four-shot kill. A sniper rifles "full potential" is a one-shot kill. You can realistically expect to kill in 4 shots with the BR at approximately 30 feet. You can realistically expect to kill in one shot with the sniper rifle at well above 100 feet. Again, this has nothing to do with aim (user error); we have to assume perfect aim in order to determine the maximum effective range. Even if your aim is perfect, you cannot expect to get a 4 shot kill (the full potential) with the BR from outside of 30 feet.

This isn't a subject of debate, these are the simple facts.


Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Halo has always had a focus on close range combat. That's why in HCE you started with the AR and PP. Bungie also limited the amount of "medium" range weapons on certain levels. Like Prisoner for example. Halo 2 really focused on close range combat since you started with a dual wield weapon. Halo 3 actually focuses less on close range combat than the other two because the H3 AR has better range than it's HCE counterpart (or at least from what I remember).

PS, Halo 3 has battles taking place at every range, depending on the level.

~B.B.


You're using the starting weapon in one of the many "default" slayer gametypes to determine the focus of the entire games weaponry? No wonder you're completely off-base. Yes, lets look at one weapon and ignore the rest; that will give us a good understanding of the weapon balance.

Regardless, I assume this is your off-handed way of confirming that, yes, Halo 3 focuses on close-range weapons. Thats good, you sort of answered a question after 2 pages of squirming and after I already answered it for you. Maybe eventually we'll get to the point where you directly answer a question without me having to drag it out of you.

This is a good start; lets try the other quesion I asked. Explain to me why a game that focuses on close-range weapons as much as Halo 3 does is better for the player than one that focuses more equally on all weapon ranges. This is a more involved answer, so I am prepared for even more pages of irrelevant filler before I actually get a real answer.

  • 11.03.2008 1:36 PM PDT

I don't accept Group invite any longer

Battle Rifle is both great and annoying. why great? it useful in open area and attack people in sight.
why annoying? if i get attacked by player with BR, it hard to run away from it. all i do to push luck kill player. my death rate is high on BR than other gun.

  • 11.03.2008 2:41 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: TheBigShow
This is a good start; lets try the other quesion I asked. Explain to me why a game that focuses on close-range weapons as much as Halo 3 does is better for the player than one that focuses more equally on all weapon ranges. This is a more involved answer, so I am prepared for even more pages of irrelevant filler before I actually get a real answer.

Let me take a shot...

It's so when we start with Bungie's preferred starting weapon, the AR, we have time to run and hide when getting shot from someone with Halo fan's preferred starting weapon, the BR. It's so when those who have less skill try to fight at mid-range, they can run and hide while probably feeding the kill to someone else. It's so those who lack sniper skills can sit back and snipe while knowing they are safe from opponents trying to shoot at them. It's so most of your kills are at close range giving an easy opportunity to teabag the dead body.

These are the answers I came up with. I don't agree with them, though, cause I would much rather be a threat to Snipers from mid-long range and start with a mid-long range weapon to be able to fight right when I spawn. I don't think skill should be a reason at all, because they implemented a ranking system for that purpose. Unfortunately, Bungie's target audience is Berserker and company.

  • 11.03.2008 3:11 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

The Halo CE AR has a better range than that of it's Halo 3 counterpart. Every gun in Halo CE has a pretty big range. The AR of Halo CE's range is comparable to the Halo 3 BR's range, while the Halo CE Pistol is comparable to the Halo 3 Sniper's range. The Halo CE sniper has a ridiculously long range in Halo CE.

I prefer Halo CE's range properties, myself, simply because the big maps all of a sudden don't seem so big since you can actually shoot people from a distance. Halo 3 needs all the guns to have an increase in range except for the sniper and laser. It's ridiculous that you can't even consistently BR people from Gold 2 to Snipe 2 on Guardian. You could AR people from that distance in Halo CE.

  • 11.03.2008 3:13 PM PDT

____________(˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜||````)_∏_________ __
l | --------____.`=====.-.~:___________|================__|
|_|||___/___/_/~```|_|_|_|``(o)----------<) HAHAHA BLESS UR SOUL+

I think the BR is fine its always my tool of destrcution

  • 11.03.2008 3:54 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Halo 3 (20)....................................................HaloC E (8)
Melee (3 ft)....................................................Melee (2 ft since no lunge)
Sword (4 ft)...................................................Shotgun (5 ft)
Gravity Hammer (4 ft)................................ Plasma Rifle (10 ft)
Flame Thrower (5 ft)...................................Plasma Pistol (15 ft)
Mauler (5 ft)..................................................AR (15 ft)
Shotgun (5 ft)...............................................Needler (15 ft)
SMG (10 ft)....................................................M6D (100 ft)
Spiker (10 ft).................................................Sniper (>100 ft)
Plasma Rifle (10 ft)
Sentinel Beam (15 ft)
Needler (15 ft)
Plasma Pistol (15ft)
AR (15 ft)
Brute Shot (20 ft)
Magnum (20 ft)
Carbine (30 ft)
Battle Rifle (30 ft)
Spartan Laser (>100 ft)
Sniper Rilfe (>100 ft)
Beam Rifle (>100 ft)

You left off the Rocket Launcher so I'll do the same. Now, I'm not a math major but it seems like Halo 3 has 35% of it's total weapons at 20 ft or more (where I'd say "mid range" begins). While looking at HaloCE it only has 25% of its total weapons at 20 ft or more (the M6D and the Sniper).

So, tell me why do you prefer a game that concentrates soooo heavily on "close-range bullet hoses"?

~B.B.

[Edited on 11.03.2008 4:32 PM PST]

  • 11.03.2008 4:30 PM PDT

The next person to assume I am talking about ranked, do us all a favor and look at what I play!

The new AR is much more accurate than the old AR.

[Edited on 11.03.2008 4:36 PM PST]

  • 11.03.2008 4:35 PM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Halo 3 (20)....................................................HaloC E (8)
Melee (3 ft)....................................................Melee (2 ft since no lunge)
Sword (4 ft)...................................................Shotgun (5 ft)
Gravity Hammer (4 ft)................................ Plasma Rifle (10 ft)
Flame Thrower (5 ft)...................................Plasma Pistol (15 ft)
Mauler (5 ft)..................................................AR (15 ft)
Shotgun (5 ft)...............................................Needler (15 ft)
SMG (10 ft)....................................................M6D (100 ft)
Spiker (10 ft).................................................Sniper (>100 ft)
Plasma Rifle (10 ft)
Sentinel Beam (15 ft)
Needler (15 ft)
Plasma Pistol (15ft)
AR (15 ft)
Brute Shot (20 ft)
Magnum (20 ft)
Carbine (30 ft)
Battle Rifle (30 ft)
Spartan Laser (>100 ft)
Sniper Rilfe (>100 ft)
Beam Rifle (>100 ft)

You left off the Rocket Launcher so I'll do the same. Now, I'm not a math major but it seems like Halo 3 has 35% of it's total weapons at 20 ft or more (where I'd say "mid range" begins). While looking at HaloCE it only has 25% of its total weapons at 20 ft or more (the M6D and the Sniper).

So, tell me why do you prefer a game that concentrates soooo heavily on "close-range bullet hoses"?

~B.B.


Well, for one thing, your range comparisons are off. The Halo CE shotgun, PP, PR, and AR had a longer range than their Halo 3 counterparts. This helps to spread out the ranges, as does the inclusion of the RL, which favors the Halo CE range weighting much more than Halo 3. You are correct though, that the weighting of weapons was closer to the close-mid range than the mid-long range in Halo CE; I'm not denying that (I don't, unlike some, ignore or deny facts). However, there is one great equalizer there; the pistol. It allowed players to engage from practically any range without being overpowered. Was it overused? Sure, but thats more the fault of the lack of weapons and the openess of the levels.

In Halo 2 and Halo 3, there is no equalizer, and thats why we're asking for one. A weapon where we can use our skill to overcome undesireable situations. We want a weapon that allows a player to have a fighting chance, but one that takes skill to do so. Currently, the outcome of any given situation is based on what weapons the players have, rather than the players themselves. Thats bad.

So lets continue with a slight modification that I assumed was apparent from the beginning: Why is a game that focuses so heavily on close range combat, without giving players a versatile utility weapon, better than one that focuses more equally on all ranges?

[Edited on 11.03.2008 4:42 PM PST]

  • 11.03.2008 4:41 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: TheBigShow

You're using the starting weapon in one of the many "default" slayer gametypes to determine the focus of the entire games weaponry? No wonder you're completely off-base. Yes, lets look at one weapon and ignore the rest; that will give us a good understanding of the weapon balance.


Wait...wait...wait. How can Halo 3 have 1 defined "default" version (and you said it was AR/M6G starts) but HCE cannot have 1 defined "default" version (which it did: AR/PP/etc.) You keep trying to write this point off because I assume you know you're wrong.

There aren't many "default" slayer gametypes in HCE. There is one. It's called Team Slayer. Know how I know that? Because it's the only Team Slayer gametype included in the game. How do I know that (FFA) Slayer is the default FFA Slayer gametype in HCE? Because it's named SLAYER. Not Slayer Pro. Slayer. It is the default.

You are wrong. I am right. Just admit it so I don't have to keep correcting you. Or do I really need to get a Bungie employee to come in here and say that I'm right?

~B.B.

  • 11.03.2008 4:55 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: TheBigShow
So lets continue with a slight modification that I assumed was apparent from the beginning: Why is a game that focuses so heavily on close range combat, without giving players a versatile utility weapon, better than one that focuses more equally on all ranges?


Oh, this is an easy one. Because the existence of an "utility weapon" is unbalanced.

Thank you come again.

~B.B.

  • 11.03.2008 4:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shadow Wolf7347
no halo pc games ive ever played in have had trash talk and hate speech as in halo 3 in pc u had the ocasional white trash calling people n******* dont speak of what you dont no and dont pick a rnadom person to debate because you cant beat other people on this forum

So sad and so wrong.


Posted by: Dragon Shadow
why annoying? if i get attacked by player with BR, it hard to run away from it.

To stand and fight is a good thing... But I know what you mean.

Posted by: Jiggly Luv
It's so when we start with Bungie's preferred starting weapon, the AR, we have time to run and hide when getting shot from someone with Halo fan's preferred starting weapon, the BR. It's so when those who have less skill try to fight at mid-range, they can run and hide while probably feeding the kill to someone else. It's so those who lack sniper skills can sit back and snipe while knowing they are safe from opponents trying to shoot at them. It's so most of your kills are at close range giving an easy opportunity to teabag the dead body.

You should write a book.

Posted by: Foahda
The AR of Halo CE's range is comparable to the Halo 3 BR's range

I disagree. You could shoot someone at that range, for sure, but it wasn't effective, and you would likely die.

The rest of your post I agree, though.

Posted by: mortabunt
The new AR is much more accurate than the old AR.

Only really noticeable when you burst fire it. And anyway, the old Assault Rifle is much more powerful.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
...the existence of an "utility weapon" is unbalanced.

This I want to hear.

  • 11.03.2008 5:09 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.


Oh, this is an easy one. Because the existence of an "utility weapon" is unbalanced.


This is the subject of debate. A utility weapon is balanced in my opinion, especially in competitive gameplay, as long as there is weapons that perform better than it at every range, which is what happens in Halo CE. A utility weapon causes people to have even, skill based fights, but also people will still dominate with power weapons. Also, if you aren't good with the utility gun, you won't accomplish much with it. The point of TheBigShow's argument, is that he wants a gun that determines the outcome of a battle based upon the skill level of the player. Right now, the BR is too easy to aim, and too inconsistent with latency and sometimes spread problems to determine the outcome of the battles based on skill level. The battles tend to be very linear and generic with a rock-paper-scissors format.

Variety does not need to suffer in order for there to be a utility gun, if the gun is designed correctly.

  • 11.03.2008 5:21 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Foahda

This is the subject of debate. A utility weapon is balanced in my opinion, especially in competitive gameplay, as long as there is weapons that perform better than it at every range, which is what happens in Halo CE.


That's great that you think it's balanced. I do not. A lot of people do not. Bungie does not. The problem is that there is a range in HCE that the Pistol is the best at. The range between the rocket launcher and the sniper rifle.

A utility weapon causes people to have even, skill based fights, but also people will still dominate with power weapons. Also, if you aren't good with the utility gun, you won't accomplish much with it. The point of TheBigShow's argument, is that he wants a gun that determines the outcome of a battle based upon the skill level of the player. Right now, the BR is too easy to aim, and too inconsistent with latency and sometimes spread problems to determine the outcome of the battles based on skill level. The battles tend to be very linear and generic with a rock-paper-scissors format.

Variety does not need to suffer in order for there to be a utility gun, if the gun is designed correctly.


There are more skills in Halo than aiming precision. If you want to play a game where spread doesn't play a factor and is majorly determined by aiming precision: play snipers. Not change the BR.

~B.B.

  • 11.03.2008 5:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: BerserkerBarage
The problem is that there is a range in HCE that the Pistol is the best at.

How is that in any way a "problem"?

There are more skills in Halo than aiming precision. If you want to play a game where spread doesn't play a factor and is majorly determined by aiming precision: play snipers. Not change the BR.
As if all of Halo 1 consisted of "aiming precision".

Please. Timing power-ups, keeping track of players' spawns, and coordinating your fire were very important in Halo 1. The difference is, in Halo 1, individual skill was more important and could have more of an impact.

  • 11.03.2008 5:44 PM PDT

People who complain about the BR are the same people who complain about the M16 in COD4, "oh itch a noob gun, it kills at all ranges, the BR is balanced enough and it does take skill to 4 shot or even sometimes 5-shot someone. Not that i have a problem in social or Team SWAT with the BR, cuz im above decent with it. The best way to use it at long range is to hit them with a frag grenade or any other grenade and shoot them one time in the head or twice in the body. That is probably the best solution you are going to get from the BR of Halo 3 compared to the BR of Halo 2, yes the one on Halo 2 was just fined, cuz im pretty sure you didn't complain if you used the BR in Halo 2, cuz you would most likely own. Don't comp[lain and ask for the Halo 2 BR back in Halo 3 then there will be campers in Halo like in COD4 who sit and wait around a corner but you and then BR one. Just like in COD when they wait around the corner in HC with a M16 or any of the pistols. Don't play Halo 3 if you don't wanna. If you wanna but you want to use the BR then grenade throw one or 2 shot someone and quit complaining.

  • 11.03.2008 5:59 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Breezy131
How is that in any way a "problem"?


Great. I'm glad that you're willing to admit that there is a range in which the M6D is the best in. Since there are quite a few people that seem to not be able to admit that. The reason why it's a problem is because the M6D is the best at one range and decent or very good in pretty much every other range. That's why people call it an "utility" weapon. It has an insane amount of "pros" (range, ease of use, reticule size, zoom, ROF, ammo capacity, kills per clip, kills per second) Pretty much everything about the M6D is a good thing. There are almost no "cons" to it. However, all the other weapons in HCE isn't like that. All the other weapons aren't "utility" weapons. They have pros and cons. So when comparing the M6D to the rest of the weapons in HCE, it's pretty obvious which one is unbalanced compared to the rest. In regards to gameplay it's easy to see the unbalanced weapon easily dominate gameplay and pretty much overshadowing everything else.


As if all of Halo 1 consisted of "aiming precision".

Please. Timing power-ups, keeping track of players' spawns, and coordinating your fire were very important in Halo 1. The difference is, in Halo 1, individual skill was more important and could have more of an impact.


That's great. I'm glad you can admit that there are other skills in Halo other than aiming precision. Individual skill is still important in Halo 3. Is it as dominant as in HCE? Probably not. Does that make the game inherently bad? Not in my opinion.

~B.B.

  • 11.03.2008 6:10 PM PDT

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

Posted by: pudgeround24
CoD4 is completely a different game. And don't bring Team SWAT into discussion, as finishing unshielded enemies off with a BR takes as much skill as a Rocket Launcher does. Also, it doesn't take 2 body shots to kill someone without shields, unless you are mistaken because one the bullets actually gets a headshot from the wide BR spread.

I actually LOL'd when you said...
The best way to use it at long range is to hit them with a frag grenade or any other grenade...
I don't know where you get the idea that everyone wants the Halo 2 BR. The only good thing about it is that it was consistent. It had too much magnetism, and the Halo 2 BR's 3 bullet burst allowed for easy headshots (kind of how it does now).

[Edited on 11.03.2008 6:20 PM PST]

  • 11.03.2008 6:19 PM PDT
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Posted by:BerserkerBarage
Great. I'm glad that you're willing to admit that there is a range in which the M6D is the best in. Since there are quite a few people that seem to not be able to admit that.

Well, yeah. The Sniper Rifle is a one shot kill, but that doesn't make it the best close range weapon. Just as how the Sniper Rifle isn't the best weapon in that particular range.

decent or very good in pretty much every other range
Well, no. Theoretically it's good at any range, but then again so is the Sniper Rifle. I would say it's either decent or impractical at most other ranges; long range (let's say base-to-base on Bloodgulch) is unpractical, since you have only a 2x scope. That's like trying to no scope someone who is pretty far away; it can be done, of course, but the 10x scope is the better choice, just as the Sniper Rifle is the better long range choice than the Pistol.

It has an insane amount of "pros" (range, ease of use, reticule size, zoom, ROF, ammo capacity, kills per clip, kills per second) Pretty much everything about the M6D is a good thing. There are almost no "cons" to it. However, all the other weapons in HCE isn't like that. All the other weapons aren't "utility" weapons.
I wouldn't rate it as that easy to use. I, nor have the people I've played with or seen playing, have been able to consistently pull of three or four shot kills; they were a rarity, something to be striven for.

And this also factors into kills per second/clip. If someone actually managed to get four kills per clip or was killing at a rate of one kill/second - I don't think that that is bad, because it was so rare for such an event to unfold. I think it's only bad when it becomes to easy to do. And as I stated before, I don't think that was necessarily easy.

As for the other pros you mentioned - yes, they are certainly present. But other weapons also have unique properties about them that make them a better alternative for a particular range than the M6D. Covenant weapons had a stun effect, the Shotgun and Assault Rifle were easy to aim and could inflict a lot of damage easily, the Rocket Launcher had an enormous blast radius, and the Sniper Rifle had double scopes and triple the damage of the Pistol.

I know people will always pick up certain weapons over others (Plasma Rifle over Plasma Pistol, Rocket Launcher over Pistol or Assault Rifle), but that happens in Halo 3, too. In fact the only weapon that was truly neglected in CE was the Needler. That was because the Needler was a poorly balanced weapon. Not the M6D.

I'm glad you can admit that there are other skills in Halo other than aiming precision.
Yeah. I find it much more impressive when teams can maintain item control through the duration of a game than when someone gets a lucky triple kill and sticks it into another boring montage.

Individual skill is still important in Halo 3. Is it as dominant as in HCE? Probably not. Does that make the game inherently bad? Not in my opinion.
Well, it's not that it's unimportant, it's just that it isn't quite as necessary. In my opinion, games should strive for a balance between individual skill and teamwork. I believe Halo 1 did this better. But that's my opinion.

And Halo 3 is not "inherently bad". I don't think that this is so, and I don't believe I've ever posted something to that effect. I just think it could be better. Will the BR, in its current state, ruin Halo 3? No. It won't, and it hasn't, despite what MLG fanboys and to use your example Dan Bauer say to the contrary. I just think that changing the Battle Rifle would make the game better.

[Edited on 11.03.2008 7:29 PM PST]

  • 11.03.2008 6:51 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

That's great that you think it's balanced. I do not. A lot of people do not. Bungie does not. The problem is that there is a range in HCE that the Pistol is the best at. The range between the rocket launcher and the sniper rifle.

In my opinion, there isn't a range the pistol is best at, since rockets travel so fast, that they dominate all medium range, and at the end of medium range, the sniper is dominant.

  • 11.03.2008 9:23 PM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage

Great. I'm glad that you're willing to admit that there is a range in which the M6D is the best in. Since there are quite a few people that seem to not be able to admit that. The reason why it's a problem is because the M6D is the best at one range and decent or very good in pretty much every other range. That's why people call it an "utility" weapon. It has an insane amount of "pros" (range, ease of use, reticule size, zoom, ROF, ammo capacity, kills per clip, kills per second) Pretty much everything about the M6D is a good thing. There are almost no "cons" to it. However, all the other weapons in HCE isn't like that. All the other weapons aren't "utility" weapons. They have pros and cons. So when comparing the M6D to the rest of the weapons in HCE, it's pretty obvious which one is unbalanced compared to the rest. In regards to gameplay it's easy to see the unbalanced weapon easily dominate gameplay and pretty much overshadowing everything else.
I agree that the M6D had lots of pros and few cons. I also think, however, that the amount of skill it took to use effectively (i.e. being able to pull off the 3sk, which I've always perceived to be the main argument behind it being overpowered) was high enough that these pros were warranted. The difference between the M6D and the other weapons in HCE was that the other weapons had extremely strong pros in the right conditions, but very strong cons in the wrong conditions. The sniper could be a one shot kill, but it took lots of skill and was particularly hard to aim at close ranges. The rockets were a one shot kill, but if you stood too close to your opponent, you would kill or severely damage yourself. The shotgun could dominate at close range, but was useless at long range. The key to using these weapons effectively was having the skill to gauge and control these conditions.

Almost every alternative weapon in HCE had a situation where it was more effective then the M6D. This made the control of power weapons, as well as the skill to use these power weapons effectively, extremely important while also making a fundamental skill with the M6D important. I don't think this is unbalanced at all.

It all comes down to whether you think this game should be about measuring your ability to have the right weapon at the right time (rock-paper-scissors, as BigShow put it), or your ability to use a core weapon skillfully, while also being able to give yourself an advantage through the possession of a power item if you have the skill.

That's great. I'm glad you can admit that there are other skills in Halo other than aiming precision. Individual skill is still important in Halo 3. Is it as dominant as in HCE? Probably not. Does that make the game inherently bad? Not in my opinion. I don't think anyone posting in this thread would say Halo 3 is inherently bad (or at least I wouldn't). I just feel that a few tweaks to increase the individual skill would make the game a lot less frustrating, and more fun.

  • 11.03.2008 9:46 PM PDT

Guns are tools. Do you blame your misspelled words on the pen?

Um, anyone complaining about the BR... Learn to LEAD your targets, and learn what ranges and how much to lead. I kill people across maps with the BR by leading 4 bodies ahead of them, and one head above. Please, don't complain about the weapon if you don't know how to use it

  • 11.04.2008 5:51 AM PDT

Posted by: General Herb
Um, anyone complaining about the BR... Learn to LEAD your targets, and learn what ranges and how much to lead. I kill people across maps with the BR by leading 4 bodies ahead of them, and one head above. Please, don't complain about the weapon if you don't know how to use it
I have no qualms with having to lead your shots. I have a problem with the inconsistency of the BR. I doubt you can accurately predict the amount of shots it takes to kill someone across the map, even if your aim is perfect.

  • 11.04.2008 6:21 AM PDT
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I bet I can make a claim that nobody else can beat regarding the BR.

In over a year of playing, I have never gotten a kill with one, ever. Beat that.


don't believe me? check my stats
http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/CareerStats.aspx?player=FR3 AK%2060

[Edited on 11.04.2008 6:22 AM PST]

  • 11.04.2008 6:21 AM PDT