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Subject: Bungie.net beginning to choose right path with its customers

You posted this in the wrong forum. I'll move it to the Septagon where it's supposed to go.

I am also offended that you have the nerve to say the moderators don't perform their duties properly.

Judging by your username and signature, I'm guessing that you've been blacklisted in the past as well, most likely for inappropriate conduct. I don't see any other reason why you would be complaining about the moderators so heavily, and trying to use "customer service" terminology so much to your advantage unless you believe you've been treated unfairly.

Thanks for completely belittling my contribution to the community.

  • 02.28.2005 11:07 AM PDT
Subject: Bungie.net beginning to choose right path with its customers
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I noticed Frankies main post, Steps in the right direction in realizing that this site is made up of previous,current,future,and potential customers........not just random people off of the internet.
I am glad to see bungie.net taking the right steps toward keeping the right relationships with its customers. Addressing probems with the games is an important thing to do to keep its customers happy. Keep us in the loop...If we complain about somthing............Bungie should voice its comcerns and explain what they are doing to fix it. Instead of the all famous blacklist to shut you up.

A couple of suggestions to improve Bungie.net

1) Moderate your moderators........Keep them in line and be sure they are blacklisting for the right reasons and not just as a power-trip admin abuse!

2) If a member is blacklisted.........the page that pops up and says "you have been blacklisted for the following reasons" And always says simply "breaking forum rules" Should be replaced with a description of what you did to be blacklisted. If a kid gets an answer wrong on a test...you tell him the one he missed and help him get it right...same for blacklisting.....tell us what we did wrong. This might help cut down on wrongful Blacklists.

3) posts are constantly getting moved and erased due to moderators deeming them out of topic. Your forum topics are so close in resemblance that any moderator can move any topic because in a sense any topic in any forum could be considered "out of topic"

4) Fair treatment for members. A bungie's pet should recieve the same reprimands as someone who is unhappy with bungie. Example if your going to blacklist a bungie member for using one word (that could be deemed political) Whenb pro-bungie members create a political thread and simply get a warning and the people who are displeased with bungie get a blacklist for using the word Saddam (for example)

5)people who seem "out of touch with bungie" ARE CUSTOMERS Perhaps they should be reached out to.............most just need a good explaination to come back to bungie.


Bungie is taking some of the right steps in improving

Most important lesson for bungie.net

People come to this site because your game directs them here for stats and answers to there questions. Therefore they are all current,future,or potential customers. The moderators on this site are putting a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths. Make sure they unde3rstand these are your customers. This site isnt just a random site for web surfers...its a site for bungie customers.

  • 02.28.2005 10:38 AM PDT
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Babies die when people say they hate Bungie. I actually am pretty offended as well that some one would say something like that about one of the few things that I have complete respect for.

[Edited on 2/28/2005 11:26:50 AM]

  • 02.28.2005 11:26 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

1. The moderators do a good job. Just because you disagree with your blacklist doesn't mean that it was done improperly.
2. If it is for something other than violating the forum rules, then yes. But, the reason that's the default message is because that's why nearly everyone gets a 7 day ban. The code of conduct isn't hard to understand. I'm not going to ask the mods to waste their time telling you what you did wrong when you most likely know exactly what you posted and why you got kicked. And no, it isn't for bad mouthing Bungie, it is for personal attacks, being a jerk, circumventing the profanity filter, advocating illegal activities, etc. The phrase "Play nice" is in there for a reason.
3. Very little gets erased. If it gets moved, it leaves a placeholder directing you to its new location. The problem is that the post volume is so high that it doesn't take long for your posts to scroll off the front page quickly.
4. I'm sorry, I disagree. You get the treatment that your conduct deserves. If you're generally a good poster, the mods aren't going to be as strict with your threads because they know that it isn't likely to get out of hand. Whereas if you're, say, you, they know you have a history and eye your threads more closely. When you have as many posts as we do, this is the only way to effectively moderate - it encourage people to create good identities, and make them earn that good reputation.
5. Don't know what you're talking about here. "Out of touch" could mean many things.

As for your final point, I also disagree. The moderators keep this place sane. You only think they put a bad taste in people's mouth because you can't seem to understand how simple it is to follow the rules. And as for the regular customers - many people come here and just go to the stats section, never encountering anybody. That's fine. The customers are served. The forums aren't a place for support, they are a place for community participation. Customers can find support elsewhere (hit help).

So, I think that the forums serve their purpose.

  • 02.28.2005 11:36 AM PDT
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I am offering my outlook on things. If you are offended, I would say you appear to have a guilty concience. Moderator/wannabe moderator. I made no direct reference to you so you shouldnt feel this way. Ignoring the fact people get blacklisted for the wrong reasons is a mistake you are intitled to...but most people look at the facts beore they make an assesment totally blind. Which in this case you are basing your dislike for my post strictly on the thinking that "bungie is always right" Open your mind a little...I try and have an open mind...I listen to people who think bungie is Is the greatest and even agree with certain things.


I have been blacklisted 5 times. My name wasnt always terminate bungie. I honestly deserved to be blacklisted one time out of the 5 but the rest of the time I was blacklisted for my opinions. Which bungie.nets moderators justified by saying..they didnt have to tell me what I did wrong. If I truly did break a rule They should have any problems telling me why. I have also had (along with several other members) have had my threads disappear for not being totally pro-bungie on concerns. And after My threads were erased I created a thread explaining that mine was erased..just for that one to get flamed and moderators being unfair to blacklist me for doing 10 percent of what another (pro-bungie) member did to just get a warning. I have had Moderators be real jerks when I ask them questions...of coarse this will spark an attitude in anyone. Expecially when the moderator gets the last word in a post blocks it so everyone can see what he wrote but no one can respond...then erase it.


I am only trying to help bungie.net here!!!! I want to see them do a better job!!! And for you to flame me for trying to help will just confirm what I have been getting blacklisted or saying all along.....Bungie makes mistakes just like us all.

  • 02.28.2005 11:46 AM PDT
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Posted by: TerminateBungie
I am offering my outlook on things. If you are offended, I would say you appear to have a guilty concience. Moderator/wannabe moderator. I made no direct reference to you so you shouldnt feel this way. Ignoring the fact people get blacklisted for the wrong reasons is a mistake you are intitled to...but most people look at the facts beore they make an assesment totally blind. Which in this case you are basing your dislike for my post strictly on the thinking that "bungie is always right" Open your mind a little...I try and have an open mind...I listen to people who think bungie is Is the greatest and even agree with certain things.


I have been blacklisted 5 times. My name wasnt always terminate bungie. I honestly deserved to be blacklisted one time out of the 5 but the rest of the time I was blacklisted for my opinions. Which bungie.nets moderators justified by saying..they didnt have to tell me what I did wrong. If I truly did break a rule They should have any problems telling me why. I have also had (along with several other members) have had my threads disappear for not being totally pro-bungie on concerns. And after My threads were erased I created a thread explaining that mine was erased..just for that one to get flamed and moderators being unfair to blacklist me for doing 10 percent of what another (pro-bungie) member did to just get a warning. I have had Moderators be real jerks when I ask them questions...of coarse this will spark an attitude in anyone. Expecially when the moderator gets the last word in a post blocks it so everyone can see what he wrote but no one can respond...then erase it.


I am only trying to help bungie.net here!!!! I want to see them do a better job!!! And for you to flame me for trying to help will just confirm what I have been getting blacklisted or saying all along.....Bungie makes mistakes just like us all.

I think that everyone understands that you are trying to help. You might have just been seen as going about it the wrong way in the past. Also I'm not a wanna be moderator neither am I a moderator I'm just a member of Bungie.net and a person that firmly beleives rules are there for a reason. In closing Chris547 is a Moderator and Achronos is the Overlord of Bungie.net which makes him more powerful than the Mods because he is the one whom makes the rules that the Mods have to enforce.

EDIT: And with having your threads deleted and locked about a month or two ago Bungie.net just got the update to move threads they didn't always have it. So if your thread was offtopic it got deleted or locked.

[Edited on 2/28/2005 11:55:26 AM]

  • 02.28.2005 11:53 AM PDT
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Mr acronos...you replied to my last thread in which I was blacklisted for using the word "saddam" so blatently pointed out by shiska before he put his 2 cents on my post...blocked it.....and banned me...meanwhile another member made a thread regarding the koreas and it was clearly political.\

I just want everyone to know...I never had any kind of problem with bungie before!!! I used to look up to them...this site and its moderators have brought on my feelings......when you have questions that get negative responses because they dont direclty kiss bungies butt or praise them for the game. It brings on an attitude...and when you try to do the right thing to resolve with moderators and you get blacklisted...without breaking rules....youd be upset too.


perhaps the moderators should follow the rules as well??

Dont act suprised..........thoussands of people feel the same way as I do.

  • 02.28.2005 12:00 PM PDT
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EDIT: And with having your threads deleted and locked about a month or two ago Bungie.net just got the update to move threads they didn't always have it. So if your thread was offtopic it got deleted or locked.[/quote]



providing stuff like this is way more efective than a blacklist.


thank you

  • 02.28.2005 12:01 PM PDT
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Well, I can understand (but not necessarily agree or sympathize with) how people may see the mods as "tyrannical" and unjustified, but I have never felt that way. The fact of the matter is that these forums have to withstand a lot of punishment, and there are many people here who think the mods should even be tougher. But if it weren't for the job they're doing, these forums would be rampant with Spammers, Flamers, Trolls, the works... and when there is so much of that that needs to be dealt with on these forums, I'm sure it's very hard for the mods to make any exceptions. But then with what you said about the political discussions, the first thing that that brings to mind, is the karma system the Bungie's thinking about.

  • 02.28.2005 12:28 PM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

You again? I'll put it in simple English.

Bungie owes you squat. Love it or leave it. Put up or shut up. Be da cool or be a fool.

Catch my drift yet?

Also, double-posting is another violation of the rules.

--Sgt. Smith can only read so much of this in one day.

  • 02.28.2005 12:31 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Several points to be aware of. First, there are like 9 moderators or something like that. There are twelve forums, which, since April 12th of 2004, have accumulated 2.5 million posts. We're going to miss some bad stuff. The mods also tend to focus their attention on the people they know who end up causing trouble. I know they make mistakes, as do I. However, your assertion that anything Bungie doesn't agree with is locked/deleted/blacklisted is FALSE. In EVERY single case that this accusation has been made, the poster in question was blacklisted not for their opinion of us or their products, but for violating the rules. They were engaging in personal attacks, being a jerk, advocating illegal activties, talking about religion, politics, or modding, etc.

I honestly don't understand why that charge keeps getting leveled at us. Have you SEEN the forums? Read any of the Halo 2 forums. How many posts tell us that we suck? Lots of companies have a habit of deleting such postings. I only blacklist you if you make personal attacks against specific people in your rants... like the guy the other day who was likening Frankie to a money-grubbing crackwhore.

I will agree that the line is somewhat blurry, but I submit that's because you're too close to it. For example, say you make a post, you get locked, and then you make another post -blam!-ing at a mod for locking it? You quite possibly will get blacklisted for it, depending on the patience of the moderator and his knowledge of your particular history. If you have a problem with a moderator, you take it up privately with him, and if you don't like that answer, take to Shishka or Stosh, and then possibly take it up with me or SketchFactor. Note that if you go directly to me, I'll smack you down to the mods if you haven't gone thru them. And, in absence of evidence, I'll defer to their judgement. This isn't because I don't like you, it is because I trust them - that's why they're mods and you aren't.

So, that's that. Oh, and STOP saying "thousands of people feel this way." No, they don't. People complain loudly and publically, but they praise privately or not at all. And regarding that one "saddam" thread - if I'm remembering the thread correctly - you we're REALLY skating on thin ice that entire thread, and it probably should have been locked sooner. We gave you the benefit of the doubt, but the scale tipped when the political analogy was brought in. Not quite as clear cut as you make it.

Posted by: TerminateBungie
Mr acronos...you replied to my last thread in which I was blacklisted for using the word "saddam" so blatently pointed out by shiska before he put his 2 cents on my post...blocked it.....and banned me...meanwhile another member made a thread regarding the koreas and it was clearly political.\

I just want everyone to know...I never had any kind of problem with bungie before!!! I used to look up to them...this site and its moderators have brought on my feelings......when you have questions that get negative responses because they dont direclty kiss bungies butt or praise them for the game. It brings on an attitude...and when you try to do the right thing to resolve with moderators and you get blacklisted...without breaking rules....youd be upset too.


perhaps the moderators should follow the rules as well??

Dont act suprised..........thoussands of people feel the same way as I do.

  • 02.28.2005 1:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: TerminateBungie
Mr acronos...you replied to my last thread in which I was blacklisted for using the word "saddam" so blatently pointed out by shiska before he put his 2 cents on my post...blocked it.....and banned me...meanwhile another member made a thread regarding the koreas and it was clearly political.\

I just want everyone to know...I never had any kind of problem with bungie before!!! I used to look up to them...this site and its moderators have brought on my feelings......when you have questions that get negative responses because they dont direclty kiss bungies butt or praise them for the game. It brings on an attitude...and when you try to do the right thing to resolve with moderators and you get blacklisted...without breaking rules....youd be upset too.


perhaps the moderators should follow the rules as well??

Dont act suprised..........thousands of people feel the same way as I do.

Bungie knows that not all their descions are pleasing to you and I bet they're very sorry that you feel that way, but if you don't like their descions you can always throw away all your Bungie games and never visit Bungie.net again. Not that I'm saying you should I was just just merely pointing out it's your life not theirs. Maybe in the future you should just aviod the kind of posts that got you blacklisted kinda like I don't call anyone a d-bag anymore. Yes I agree that sometimes Moderators get a little heavy on the ban I should know I'm a Moderator in a couple of forums myself. It's a big job with lots of responsiblity and sometimes you can just get in the wrong thread at the wrong time (although I'm sure vast efforts are made to aviod this situation from happening). I'm also sorry that you feel you must "Kiss Bungie's Ass" as you so literatly put it I never feel that I do I put in my piece and I do my best to help the Bungie Community. Maybe you would feel better about the forums if you became a better poster and helped people alot (yes over-helping is a bad thing). Maybe if you take into consideration what I have said you would be alot more happy on this forum and many others. (I can't tell you how many times I have had to give this speach on the other forums I'm on.)

EDIT: And as Achronos so keenly put it behind everyones Bungie.net username is a person sitting at a keyboard with his own problems and imperfections( and yes the Mods do favor some people more than others because of their outstanding posting history I myself am probably being watched because I don't quite fit the definition of the perfect poster). So if they make what you feel is a wrong descion follow the cahin of command. Also I know the Mods are people behind their comp screens so they are expected to make mistakes, but they are Mods because they don't make mistakes very often and when they do they fix them. In one of stosh's thread he clearly says that at one time he was blaclisted but as you can see now he is one of the Master Forum Ninjas people make mistakes, but as you can clearly see they correct them which is what makes them Mods and us not I'm trying to correct a couple of mistakes I made on this forum it's not like I haven't been blaclisted or had a thread locked. I'm just as stupid as the next poster i just try to be a little less stupid.

[Edited on 2/28/2005 1:47:03 PM]

  • 02.28.2005 1:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: VII Toast
Posted By: Bungie.Net Code of Conduct
Bungie controls everything. You have no rights. Play nice.

You were blacklisted 5 times? I'm not suprised by your name then, but you'll be on the hit-list when Bungie starts shooting people into the sun.

He didn't specify on which of his accounts was he blacklisted 5x. So I'm assuming that it's a total of all his accounts................

  • 02.28.2005 2:08 PM PDT

- Mike

Posted by: TerminateBungie
I am offering my outlook on things. If you are offended, I would say you appear to have a guilty concience. Moderator/wannabe moderator. I made no direct reference to you so you shouldnt feel this way.

Yeah you did you stated Moderators. Chris is a Moderator, therefore it was directed to him.
I think this thread should be locked. It has a potential to get out of hand.

  • 02.28.2005 2:23 PM PDT

Discipline is my Sword,
Faith is my Shield,
Do not leap blindly into uncertainty,
And you may live to reap the rewards.

"The Important Thing Is To Never Stop Questioning,"

OK here are a few words of wisdom from a guy who learned his lesson too.

1: When and if your post is locked or Deleted do not post about it. That is nothing more than Birching and is not allowed, also it usually is a personal attack against a Moderator.

2: You may want to watch yourself, from the sounds of it you have multiple accounts. If one of your accounts is Banned Bungie will Ban the others to keep you from avoiding your Banning, so its not wrongfull banning.

3: Dont make anything even close to a political post in these forums, is better safe than sorry.

4: When and if you are blacklisted, deal with it, my first week I was blacklisted for a week. I did not whine, I just waited it out. I broke a rule, so I dealt with it. Trying to create other Screennames to try and get around it is illegal and will get you banned for linger, and when you come back dont whine about it, you broke a rule, just dont do it again.

5: If you have something to post about Bungie that is against them, make sure it is an intelligent post and in no way can seem like a Flame or personal attack, for this is the reason most are locked. This thread is a good example, you did well posting you views against them w/o attacking anyone, although you did come close to attacking the Mods there.

6: PLay Nice, it says that for a reason. Dont just Flame anyone who doesnt agree with you, have a intelligent argument and it will not get locked, and if someone Flames you just innore it, dont fuel the Fire.

7: Last but not least, remember we are human here, mistakes will happen, you will ake some, and so will everyone else(yes even Mods), but its how we deal with these mistakes that shows are true colors.

  • 02.28.2005 3:16 PM PDT
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Also if you look in my groups on of the Moderators started a group sherely to discuss politics in a clean environment. If you would like political discussion go there.

  • 02.28.2005 3:20 PM PDT

bah

Posted by: Achronos
First, there are like 9 moderators or something like that.
That is so going somewhere.

Somewhere, hint hint.

  • 02.28.2005 3:32 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Posted by: antiherosk8er
I think this thread should be locked. It has a potential to get out of hand.


Why? So far, it seems pretty level headed. If it gets out of hand, it will get locked. It won't get locked just because of the original poster's checkered history, and since he tried to approach a delicate subject with great care, a discussion about it is just fine.

  • 02.28.2005 3:33 PM PDT
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Cronos,
I will add you to the list of mods who called me a liar........................



I created this thread to try and reason with bungie once more...I really am suprised that I havent been blacklisted yet.

I offer my outlook on things....and advice on what your doing wrong.........but instead of explainations I get excuses..............and basically get called a liar.


I understand posts get pushed from page 1 to page 2 when new posts are created...I can figure that out...just as I can figure out that if you create a post and in 1 minuite its not on page 1-10 that it was deleted.


I also understand this isnt a perfect world..and everything doesnt go your way.


and for acronos to say mods dont erase threads, based totally on trust of his mods is wrong. Perhaps we both have been wronged by them then. And you shouldnt believe everything you hear.

Now I dont know all of your mods.....But you have a few that just shouldnt be doing it..... And the "Banning spree" they get for Blacklisting so many people certainlty isnt the best incentive for fair play.


I am not going to waste my time on this site trying to fix things between us just for somthing to do!! I mean...I am opening my heart to listen to you.....................but all I get is excuses and Confirmation of what I am complaining about..


Perhaps its just easiest for you to make excuses and call people a liar than to do somthing about it...........


maybe the facts are a little better than the word of your moderators (which you base everything on)




I was even all ready to change my name to "reformbungie"

  • 02.28.2005 3:34 PM PDT

bah

Maybe if you had chosen a normal name not intended to piss people off...

And if that was NOT your intention, then you, sir, are clueless.

  • 02.28.2005 3:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: The Rip Saw
Maybe if you had chosen a normal name not intended to piss people off...

And if that was NOT your intention, then you, sir, are clueless.



I used to use my gamertag...but I changed it to terminate bungie after I was Blacklisted and called a liar

  • 02.28.2005 3:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: alexc0000
Also if you look in my groups on of the Moderators started a group sherely to discuss politics in a clean environment. If you would like political discussion go there.

I dont want a political discussion........I used the word saddam as a reference to how I was being treated......and shiska blacklisted me for it......The only Blacklist I got reasoning for...too bad it was in my thread and since I was blacklisted all anyone could read was what He said.........

  • 02.28.2005 3:53 PM PDT

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