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Subject: Bungie, how am i supposed to make a point with out a petition?

The forums are for discussions. No petitions are allowed. That's the rule. The sword threads are the flavor of the week now anyway. I'm sure 20 more have been created since your's got shut down.

Simmer down. Try breathing. Fresh air maybe.

  • 03.05.2005 8:03 PM PDT
Subject: Bungie, how am i supposed to make a point with out a petition?
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I go through all thr trouble of getting a lot of people togther only to have my post deleted, this is a childish way of blocking out the truth and my chapter will agree with me.
i dont want to insult you but you are acting like a 7 year old with powers. you do what you want without getting feedback from the community, then when we try to say something you refuse to hear the truth, its disgusting.

  • 03.05.2005 7:45 PM PDT
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that still doesnt address the problem of bungie not telling us exacts.


....my windows open....

the people starting the new threads are mostlikly mine.

  • 03.05.2005 8:07 PM PDT
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The last man on Earth sat in a room, there came a knock at the door.

Service Record

There are a lot of people complaining about this. What you have to remember is that there are a lot of people out there that aren't complaining.

  • 03.05.2005 8:13 PM PDT

Proud Staff of The Marty Army Clan
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought with, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." Albert Einstein

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has limits…"Albert Einstein

I agree with Keyes, If what you are trying to do here isn't working then try it some where else. Its realy not that big of a deal if you think about it. Like a bit of paint scratched off a REALY nice car.

  • 03.05.2005 10:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lordquwit
Bungie, how am i supposed to make a point with out a petition?


I would be inclined to say make it by writing a compelling argument containing valid and well thought out points, but reason tells me this may be beyond your reach.

  • 03.06.2005 1:45 AM PDT
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I asked them to debate me and Helljumper 76 but they never responded.

  • 03.06.2005 6:22 AM PDT
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Yo Halo53, I'm real happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best bungie.net profiles of all time. OF ALL TIME!

Why do you need to make a petition? I'm sure even if you did and got many members, Bungie'd do it anyway. It's not the end of the world. I guess it stops some of the minor cheating. The majority of glitch cheating is made up of the dummy glitch, though. The majority of cheating in general is using stand-by.

  • 03.06.2005 7:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: Keyes86
There are a lot of people complaining about this. What you have to remember is that there are a lot of people out there that aren't complaining.


Holy crap, Keyes is back from the dead!

If you want to make a poll on sword flying; just make a poll:

Q:Do you think sowrd flying should be cut from the game?

A1:Yes

A2:No

It's as simple as that. You're not crossing the line by saying, "Is bungie idiotic" or something around those lines. It's just a good way to get feeback. Although this poll and the results will be useless, seeing as the glitch will get cut and will probably never return.

  • 03.06.2005 10:31 AM PDT

Posted by: Josher 35
If you want to make a poll on sword flying; just make a poll:
Q:Do you think sowrd flying should be cut from the game?
A1:Yes
A2:No

Or you could simply POST IN AN EXISTING THREAD INSTEAD OF CREATING A NEW ONE. (forgive the caps, but a demonic, booming voice is required for emphasis)


Posted by: Lordquwit
the people starting the new threads are most likly mine.

Is that some kind of admission to organized spamming between you and your cronies?


Posted by Josher 35:
Although this poll and the results will be useless, seeing as the glitch will get cut and will probably never return.

As Recon pointed out, it's not up to public debate anyway. Bungie made the descision already.

-------------------

And on a final note, I cannot agree more with everything Recon said in his post above. The attitude of the new "fans" is just revolting. The same people that used to want things fixed are now whining to keep the glitches. After the backlash I received for moderating last night, I'm not very inclined to contribute much for a while.

[Edited on 3/6/2005 4:54:08 PM]

  • 03.06.2005 4:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: chris547

Or you could simply POST IN AN EXISTING THREAD INSTEAD OF CREATING A NEW ONE. (forgive the caps, but a demonic, booming voice is required for emphasis)



I didn't I think of that. I'm used to too many new threads, sigh.

  • 03.07.2005 4:43 AM PDT

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Posted by: chris547
And on a final note, I cannot agree more with everything Recon said in his post above. The attitude of the new "fans" is just revolting. The same people that used to want things fixed are now whining to keep the glitches. After the backlash I received for moderating last night, I'm not very inclined to contribute much for a while.

Chris, illigitimi non carborundum, man. Don't let them grind you down.

I'm a newer fan of Bungie... I started with HaloPC's release, though I only started getting involved in the fan community that December. At the time I was awestruck by the quality of fan participation. There was some ribbing and a few sly shots, but so much of the interaction was truly interaction and not just demands or statements. Those people are still out there, as are newer ones of the same steel and temper. Just keep reminding yourself of that when you run into their posts. (As scarce as they may seem lately.)

-- Steve must confess to limiting his viewing of the forums here for much the same reason that Chris mentions... Steve's a bit of a wuss that way.

  • 03.07.2005 8:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
Lately, the tone on the fan side has changed. Not completely and not throughout the entire community, but the attitude of entitlement and lack of compassion is very disturbing to me. I don't understand how someone can be a fan and at the same time insult and challenge your benefactors with a "we want you to change this" demand.

I just don't get it.

ehhh even though I am new to the site I noticed this too. Lots of people seem to demand things and threten not to buy halo3... (6million-1=599,999,999...= 1 less standbyer.) They usually don't have valid points too. Usually the say bring back all haloCE stuff and the pistol. They also want all the old maps back and stuff like that. A lot of times they demand Bungie To fix cheating and glitchs immediatly without even reporting cheaters.All they do it b!tch. it's true and it won't go away. some people who go to the site aren't even fans ... All they want to do is annoy and get banned for fun. what a sad childish world we live in.

anyway none of it makes sense and if you really want to do a petition screw it and stalk jason jones while shouting things at him. But on a happy note I noticed Recon did not mentions his wife!!! Good for him!!!

  • 03.07.2005 9:09 AM PDT
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  • still hates toast

I don't really mind the new fans. It's the stupid bungie fans (young or old) that annoy me.

[Edited on 3/7/2005 9:10:05 AM]

  • 03.07.2005 9:09 AM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Bungie has always (and I mean ALWAYS) adored their fans. I've been a fan for over 10 years now and I know of no other company that treats their fans as well as Bungie treats theirs. But I have noticed a change.

For a long time, the adoration was bi-directional. The fans loved Bungie and the feeling was returned. Such a relationship resulted in generous gifts from them such as what they did with the Marathon property (they made it freely available to any and all fans, including the engine code). Those are the acts of a company that cares about their community.

Lately, the tone on the fan side has changed. Not completely and not throughout the entire community, but the attitude of entitlement and lack of compassion is very disturbing to me. I don't understand how someone can be a fan and at the same time insult and challenge your benefactors with a "we want you to change this" demand.


Tru7h in more ways than one. Recon not only identified a problem with the relationship between Bungie and some "fans", but also between the two main groups of Bungie fans / forum members. This, rather than age, time on forums, or number of years spent playing Bungie games, is what differentiates true fans and seekers of the tru7h from those who just play the games without the appreciation of how, why, and by whom the games are made. In my humble opinion, that is the difference between those who are oldschool (or at least oldschool at heart) and those who fit into the category of the n word.

[Edited on 3/7/2005 9:43:10 AM]

  • 03.07.2005 9:41 AM PDT
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Good points Recon. In my tenure here, I've seen this turn you describe and sadly, the more popular and mainstream and large our community gets, the more it will continue to get diluted with the types of people we see so frequently now. I only hope the people who regularly contribute in a positive way are not chased away.

Sword flying? Whether the proponents on our forums actually do it or not, it IS an exploit and it CAN be used to unfairly benefit a team in a multiplayer game. We're removing it because of that. Sure, it can be fun, but it's harmful to the game and the online experience whether outspoken individuals agree or not. We do listen to feedback from our fans, but we don't design our games or make development decisions by committee. No matter what we ever do, it's clear from our forums we can't win. For every person who loves one thing, there is another who thinks it's the worst thing ever. That is the price we pay for being so open with our community...you give people a channel, an outlet, but at the same time you inevitably set them up for disappointment when they have what they believe is the best idea ever and it's not implemented.

  • 03.07.2005 12:28 PM PDT
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Yo Halo53, I'm real happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best bungie.net profiles of all time. OF ALL TIME!

Well it appears I spoke too soon. Since I posted yesterday, Ive been sword sniped twice. Prior to yesterday, I've only been sword sniped once in a matchmaking game. I wish it were possible for them to leave it in custom games so we could still have our on top of the map, but since that won't happen, I'll have to agree with Bungie's decision. Although it doesn't really matter what I say, they'd do it anyway...

  • 03.07.2005 1:26 PM PDT
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-= Fixer out =-

<Spurious Interrupt- Breach Disabled>
<Further Access Denied>

Posted by: Recon Number 54

<snip>

Some thoughts to consider.

"A camel is a horse designed by committee."
"Too many cooks spoil the broth."
"Game player ≠ Game designer"

<snip>

Lately, the tone on the fan side has changed. Not completely and not throughout the entire community, but the attitude of entitlement and lack of compassion is very disturbing to me. I don't understand how someone can be a fan and at the same time insult and challenge your benefactors with a "we want you to change this" demand.

I just don't get it.


As was mentioned previously, I think the sheer, staggering success of Halo 2 has a lot to do with the change in tone of the fanbase. You have a lot of new people here now (myself included), some of whom don't know the customs of these communities, and some of those who are either too ignorant or too selfish to care. It must be frustrating as a moderator see the community suffer so many more shouting matches, repeat-repeat-repeat posts, and just general outbreaks of stupid than (I assume) it did previously.

If it helps, remember that there are many of us on the forums who make a point of staying silent much of the time. We do this because we know that a shouting match requires two people to be shouting. We don't have moderator's privileges, but as we "voted with our money" in buying Halo 2 and other Bungie games in the first place, we can vote with our attention by simply ignoring the ignorant: not posting, not messaging, just ignoring.

It's an unfortunate (but true) fact of human nature that people frequently fail to remember to praise, and rarely fail to remember to blame. It's frustrating that things have gotten more hectic around here, but I hope you always know that there's a vast and mostly silent majority who thinks that all the moderators are doing a great job.

As we always imply but rarely explicitly state: this place would be a crazy house without you people. Good work. Bungie rules. All players rule. And in a literal sense, mods rule.

[Edit: Corrected some of my abuse of the English language]

[Edited on 3/7/2005 1:31:23 PM]

  • 03.07.2005 1:29 PM PDT
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Your mom rules!

As long as some people stay around, I won't be going anywhere soon.

  • 03.07.2005 4:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
Disclaimer: I am merely a fan of Bungie's, I am not an employee, I am not a spokesperson, and I in no way speak on their behalf or at their request or urging. These opinions are my own and I am responsible for them.

Game development is not a debate between the developers and the consumers. At least not when it comes to this company.

People wonder why Bungie is so reluctant to give out details of the process. "Why don't you give us more info?", "Why can't we see some pre-release screen shots?"

Bungie are not politicians, politicians are swayed by petitions because a petition is an adversarial poll. A petition is a way of challenging that "we the undersigned don't like what you are doing and by the volume of our voices, we demand that you change your course." Politicians respond to petitions because it is a threat to what they hold dear, their position and their power.

Bungie on the other hand are artists. They create, the public then have the opportunity to decide if they appreciate the product or not. If they were insecure or inconfident artists, they would ask their audience, "What do you think of this?", "Should we do it this way? or this?"

You may have noticed that Frankie wasn't asking for input, opinions or suggestions on the matter. The decision has been made.

Some thoughts to consider.

"A camel is a horse designed by committee."
"Too many cooks spoil the broth."
"Game player ≠ Game designer"

Lastly, Halo is theirs. Not ours, not yours, not mine, theirs. They created it, we fans have purchased a license to play our copies of it. If the person who was able to create the work decides to change it, that is their right and their prerogative (just ask Lucas and Spielberg).

Petitions are confrontational and adversarial. Bungie has always (and I mean ALWAYS) adored their fans. I've been a fan for over 10 years now and I know of no other company that treats their fans as well as Bungie treats theirs. But I have noticed a change.

For a long time, the adoration was bi-directional. The fans loved Bungie and the feeling was returned. Such a relationship resulted in generous gifts from them such as what they did with the Marathon property (they made it freely available to any and all fans, including the engine code). Those are the acts of a company that cares about their community.

Lately, the tone on the fan side has changed. Not completely and not throughout the entire community, but the attitude of entitlement and lack of compassion is very disturbing to me. I don't understand how someone can be a fan and at the same time insult and challenge your benefactors with a "we want you to change this" demand.

I just don't get it.


Not a demand, but a pleading request.
Not a lack a passion, but a deep wanting to see Bungie do the best they can. remember we're not all perfect people, "human beings" can make mistakes except for who ever does your A.I.

I LOVE BUNGIE, ive played myth the fallen lords,soulblighter,the thrid one i misplaced.
I have been a loyal fan ever since my uncle setup my first computer and installed his copy of myth: the fallen lords onto. the art was amazing(killed my consoles), the nmes A.I. was fairly impressive. the wide variety of charecters and enviorments were great. playing that level with alric was so much fun( he kicks ass.) killing all but one zombie and then making a circle around him. Whoops went off on a ramble of memories.

point is i love everything that bungie does, a sort of unconditional love i have for my dog(tears things apart). sure they can do somethings wrong and you try your best to tell them no, but at the end of the day you either hit the fourms, pop in myth, or play Halo with your friends over XBL. and nothing lets me sleep at night like knowing bungie is doing their best to create the best gameplay experiance.

  • 03.07.2005 4:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: SketchFactor
Good points Recon. In my tenure here, I've seen this turn you describe and sadly, the more popular and mainstream and large our community gets, the more it will continue to get diluted with the types of people we see so frequently now. I only hope the people who regularly contribute in a positive way are not chased away.

Sword flying? Whether the proponents on our forums actually do it or not, it IS an exploit and it CAN be used to unfairly benefit a team in a multiplayer game. We're removing it because of that. Sure, it can be fun, but it's harmful to the game and the online experience whether outspoken individuals agree or not. We do listen to feedback from our fans, but we don't design our games or make development decisions by committee. No matter what we ever do, it's clear from our forums we can't win. For every person who loves one thing, there is another who thinks it's the worst thing ever. That is the price we pay for being so open with our community...you give people a channel, an outlet, but at the same time you inevitably set them up for disappointment when they have what they believe is the best idea ever and it's not implemented.



Edit: After re-readin my post I see that my post was ungratefull. Sorry.


[Edited on 3/7/2005 5:57:24 PM]

  • 03.07.2005 5:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: Halo53
Well it appears I spoke too soon. Since I posted yesterday, Ive been sword sniped twice. Prior to yesterday, I've only been sword sniped once in a matchmaking game. I wish it were possible for them to leave it in custom games so we could still have our on top of the map, but since that won't happen, I'll have to agree with Bungie's decision. Although it doesn't really matter what I say, they'd do it anyway...




Frankie says: Sword glitching requires a significant fix. To fix it for custom versus matchmade would basically require splitting the code base in two and testing each. I don't think you want to wait for that. And I should note, people DO cheat with Sword Flying. If we fix everything else and leave that in, guess what the next big thing in cheating would be?


Me: there is a way, and we would wait for it. but i assume after making such a large game the people at bungie would be tired and want to relax for another month or so.

  • 03.07.2005 5:29 PM PDT

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