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Subject: Halo 2 and Havok
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amen to that.

  • 03.07.2005 7:21 PM PDT
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I love the physics to this game. Every time i play on Metropolis, i like to drive the tank to the foot of the scarab, and the scarab throws my tank higher than buildings. Those things are strong!

  • 03.07.2005 7:42 PM PDT
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where can you do this?

  • 03.07.2005 7:49 PM PDT
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I agree with Broken Ant; I have not been impressed with any game that used the Havock engine. I am not a software guy, but I think the physics in H1 were a lot more fun than the more complex H2 physics. Who cares if the H1 physics were more "simplistic". I think if you guys made H2 with the original engine, you might not have had something as impressive and awe-inspiring as a barrel or body rolling crazily down a hill ( lol ), but you would have had a better game. Instead of wasting time trying to get Havock working with the H2 code, you could have focused more on aspects like gameplay ( a shotgun that works, fists that connect with targets and actually do damage, and 'nades that genuinely go "boom" ), balance ( sniper rifle, plasma pistol/ just about anything else combo, swords with an unlimited power scource in small levels, and the Red team advantage ), glitch fixes ( too many to list ), and overall enjoyment and fun ( I'm sorry, I could play H1 campaign over and over again and still find different ways to have fun; and even if I got worked in H1 multiplayer, it was not because I started out with a P.O.S. SMG or spawned too far away from a good weapon ). Games that used the "vaunted Havock engine" were not nearly as good as Halo 1. Why try to emulate these sub - Halo games? Halo : Combat Evolved was revolutionary; i don't care what the Unreal geeks thought ( I played Unreal for a couple of hours, and, though it was fun, it was not even half the game Halo is! ). So, now an inspired and imaginative computer wiz can't make a "real" game with a "real" physics engine anymore? I guess it has to be a made by a big game physics company, huh? I guess all the software folks are so impressed with this great and wonderfull Havock thing. Well then, ( I might be banned for this ) tell me why Alexander Seropian ( the FOUNDER of Bungie ) chose to use the Halo 1 engine in his NEW game made by his NEW company!!!?

  • 03.07.2005 7:53 PM PDT
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I love boxes in halo 2 multplayer. You can block doors, drop them on people and have lots of devious fun. How do you like to use boxes and the other various physics in halo 2?

  • 03.07.2005 7:59 PM PDT
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Where the hell did you guys get the link for havok? and do I download it onto my comp? or my xbox?


(I Guess I should start to read EVERYTHING)

  • 03.07.2005 8:07 PM PDT
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Isnt Havok the engine they used for Half-Life 2?
Maybe im just retarded but thats what I heard

  • 03.07.2005 8:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: Chuckles2
I like the new vehicles and everything but I think that it is too hard to splatter people. And what happened to the good old warthog wars, when you hit one another and one of you went flying into the air.


Man that rocked. I fondly remember BumperHogs matches. Yet another part of Halo greatness stripped away by Halo 2.

A Grunt

  • 03.07.2005 10:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: Pitbull117
I agree with Broken Ant;


Same here.


I have not been impressed with any game that used the Havock engine.


Half Life 2 rocks, but not because of the physics engine. I think the much balleyhood ragdoll physics actually looks far far worse than other approaches. The body looks like one of those lame stick and string puppets.


I am not a software guy, but I think the physics in H1 were a lot more fun than the more complex H2 physics.


I am a software guy, and you are totally correct. The way that bodies and vehicles would fly around was not only a lot more fun, looked way cooler, but made for much better gameplay. Noobs would whine and cry about the ghost, but once you learned to place a frag correctly (or simply CROUCH UNDER OR JUMP OVER IT MORON) it wasn't a problem.


Who cares if the H1 physics were more "simplistic".


Nerds, noobs, and Microsoft "engineers" (grrrrrrrrrrrr!) who automatically assume that adding more gibberish and complexity to a model makes it better and more accurate. I have a real, old school applied science Engineering degree, and the opposite is almost always true.

Yes, I'm looking at you "software engineer". Fruck you sideways, my degree's the real one. You belong with the "culinary" and "sanitation" guys.


Instead of wasting time trying to get Havock working with the H2 code, you could have focused more on aspects like gameplay


Gee! There's a concept! Instead of focusing on shovelling tons of Covenant backstory in my face that takes up entire levels, that nobody but Staten and other assorted nerds care about, or fiddling with third party code, why don't you actually focus on gameplay since you are after all MAKING A STINKING VIDEO GAME!

Tweaking third party code is almost never worth it resource wise, unless your programming staff can't really code from scratch. Sadly more and more code is being written that way these days, which is why software is so damn buggy and requires such ludicrously overpowered machines to run.

As an example, say you need three functions. Your cut'n'paste "software engineer" gets some third party software with 15 functions including those three and slaps it into your program. You now have the code load of those other 12 unused functions coming along for the ride. Now multiply that across entire programs and operating systems, and you wind up with situations where it takes more hardware to send an email or print a letter than it did to put a man on the moon.


( a shotgun that works, fists that connect with targets and actually do damage, and 'nades that genuinely go "boom" ),


To be fair to Bunglesoft, I think that the castration of the shottie was intentional. The shotgun is one of those Halo 1 things that noobs cry about, and I've noticed that everything that noobs cried about in Halo 1 was cut out or changed beyond recognition in Halo 2.


So, now an inspired and imaginative computer wiz can't make a "real" game with a "real" physics engine anymore?


This begs the question of how much of a "wiz" these kids actually are. I've noticed that 20 something programmers tend to (there are exceptions) cut and paste 95% of their work.


I guess it has to be a made by a big game physics company, huh? I guess all the software folks are so impressed with this great and wonderfull Havock thing. Well then, ( I might be banned for this ) tell me why Alexander Seropian ( the FOUNDER of Bungie ) chose to use the Halo 1 engine in his NEW game made by his NEW company!!!?


A LOT of the coding talent left Bunglesoft with Seropian. This begs many questions...

A Grunt

  • 03.07.2005 10:50 PM PDT
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This whole engine and explanantion is great, I'm going to college to be an engineer and am slugging my way through physics right now so i notice a lot of things in the game that are correct according to the laws of physics in all its grand confusing ways. How about some inclement weather for some of the levels, a nice rain to mess up the snipers, some wind to knock the banshees around maybe.... This game may knock my graduation date back a lil if I don't get some self control.

  • 03.08.2005 2:10 AM PDT

Do you want a piece of me? I'll see you on Live...

Blablablablablablablablabla

  • 03.08.2005 3:31 AM PDT
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Posted by: StickyFingers
Blablablablablablablablabla



spoken like a true idiot.

  • 03.08.2005 5:01 AM PDT
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h2 is a great game n all, but bungie screwed up way too many things. Instead of wasting an INCREDIBLE amount of time making new levels, put halo 1 on xbox live. They say its not possible, but everyone knows it is.

i can see addressing issues such as cheating, thats great. but why dont you address all your fans, look at these forums, there are still alot of die hard h1 fans, give them what they want, and they will give u what you want, your frickin money.....

  • 03.08.2005 5:03 AM PDT
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sup

  • 03.08.2005 5:44 AM PDT
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h1 is -blam!- and boring now that h2 is out i mean i played h1 the other day and i said to myself "i acually played this?"

  • 03.08.2005 5:46 AM PDT
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Wait, so let me get this straight Bungie... You release this game, which is praised for being great (which it is) but also disliked for "ruining" the Halo name, but LOTS of veteran gamers . Its completely different from H1 and its not bad either. But you mean to tell me, you release a game, wait 6 months, and change THE ENTIRE PHYSICS of the game. When are you guys going to learn. H1 had flaws, H2 has flaws, and because you aren't satisfied with the results you tweak this game? Bungie... the game is out... stop it. You might as well have waited til summer to release this Halo 2.5, with updated physics and DLC built in, and done off with the November 9th release. Or would that make for a stpuid tattoo?

If you are going to keep tweaking, I have minor suggestions for you. Release H1 with LIVE... seriouly, your next project should be H1 LIVE... not an action packed dual wield athon, which it is meant to be as Frankie admits, its supposed to be fast paced more than strategy... gee, could it be because most non skilled players are devoid of that??? Well then give us H1 online... because I don't want this game if you are going to keep tweaking and tweaking til the point that I get sick. Leave the game, gimme bonuses.

PS... fixing flag bouncing??? really? Not only is it not unfair, but easy to do and just as equal. But I guess this new physics enginge would take care of this... Two birds with one stone. But if you played the better maps like Colossus and Beaver and Lockout more, I guess there would be a legitamate complaint, but until then I'm going to get back onto Live and play more Burial Mounds... I mean slayer...

  • 03.08.2005 6:31 AM PDT
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Since most of you skipped my long post, just take this. Quit changing this game. More maps is great, a new playlist is great, fixing hardcore cheating is great (thanks for adressing Clan Boosting by the way, wait... NM), but changing ACTUAL GAMEPLAY will be pointless... save it for H3. I've said it before, you gave the noobies of gaming a nod by changing H2, on many levels, so now give the elites something. We still ACTUALLY like THIS game... Don't change it, just the variety. I.E. New maps and playlists... more variety. LESS BURIAL MOUNDS. MORE LOCKOUT. BATTLE RIFLE SPAWN.

  • 03.08.2005 6:37 AM PDT
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OMG Zombies as a gametype. Please stop with stupid ideas I can't take it anymore. Thats the whole point of CUSTOM GAMES. Its not a real game. Neither is FIESTA. Ranked games should be just that... MEANINGFUL. And sorry for posting three times but Bungie is going to lose A LOT of fans when they listen to them. Seriously, who logs the most hours? The legitamate 20s who play all night. THe high leveled SKILLED players. Not the lower levels. So why would you take game and gameplay advice from novices who know half as much about the physics and gameplay as the 1337s? You've made the money and sales and gotten the 10s... now give the TRUE LOYAL GAMERS something to feast on. Don't disappoint the guys who play three hours a day to give the level 13 a fiesta gametype so he can play for half an hour. And Log off for a few days.

  • 03.08.2005 6:44 AM PDT
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so basically what were you getting out of that huge story?........well since everyone knew that a new halo was gonna come out a long time ago, we'd all figured it was gonna be much better. Why do you think we all love it so much because all of the stuff that went into it from you guys. Yes i did play the original halo on system link the other day and i'll have to admit, it pisses you off cause you get used to Halo 2 when you play it so much. Having to go back to that almost made me cry. Well thanks guys for doin such an excellent job w/ Halo 2. Thanks to you guys i am completely addicted to the damn thing! If only you guys would have ended the halo story w/ this one, would have been completely fine with me. But noooo! Bungie has to go another level up, which is cool just its gonna take a damn long time to get out and all your gonna do is tease us with those stupid clips of you guys playin it and basically laughing in are face cause we cant and you can. Its so not fair..........well anyways.......GET THAT NEW CRAP OUT FOR XBOX LIVE SOON DAMN IT.........I CANT WAIT!

  • 03.08.2005 7:02 AM PDT

OMG
Master Chief w/o his Helmet!


Stosh <3's me vicariously... at least someone does...

Um wasn't this up before the Whats update?

  • 03.08.2005 7:16 AM PDT
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yes the physics are amazing yet you jump from the top of a leval in a giant death machine and yet you are unaffected.....strange....

  • 03.08.2005 9:47 AM PDT
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I have no problem with the new Havok system or any aspect of Halo 2 other that it's a lot more simpler game...

What happend to coming out of a building only to find a wide open space and a full scale war going on with humans on one side and covenet on the other!

Halo 2 is a fast paced action FPS and that what makes it poo It should live up the name "combat evolved" don't get me wrong Live KICKS ASS but the campain mode is very poor.

I waited so long because I was under the imprestion that better / bigger program better / bigger levels but I guess less is more....

  • 03.08.2005 10:30 AM PDT
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Posted by: StickyFingers
Blablablablablablablablabla



Three guesses as to why this guy's fingers are always sticky. Perhaps the Man Show can design a special "mojoflow" controller for him.

A Grunt

  • 03.08.2005 11:03 AM PDT
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Posted by: ImSoVarDo
OMG Zombies as a gametype. Please stop with stupid ideas I can't take it anymore. Thats the whole point of CUSTOM GAMES. Its not a real game. Neither is FIESTA. Ranked games should be just that... MEANINGFUL. And sorry for posting three times but Bungie is going to lose A LOT of fans when they listen to them. Seriously, who logs the most hours? The legitamate 20s who play all night. THe high leveled SKILLED players. Not the lower levels. So why would you take game and gameplay advice from novices who know half as much about the physics and gameplay as the 1337s? You've made the money and sales and gotten the 10s... now give the TRUE LOYAL GAMERS something to feast on. Don't disappoint the guys who play three hours a day to give the level 13 a fiesta gametype so he can play for half an hour. And Log off for a few days.


I just about died laughing when I read this.

"Halo 2 Elites", "High leveled skilled players". That is priceless. You can't have elites in a game that revolves so much around chance; spawns, power weapons, grenade physics, and a game that is so easy to cheat in. StK lost a team slayer match in coag by like 50-4 because the other team spawned on both snipers. This NEVER would have happened in Halo 1.

"Legitimate 20's" and "Meaningfull ranks" when we all know that the game becomes more and more of a glitch-fest the higher you level up.

The true irony of course is that Bunglesoft took very very seriously "game and gameplay advice from novices who know half as much about the physics and gameplay as the 1337s?" when they made Halo 2; every single thing that nubs who can't handle a learning curve cry about in Halo 1 got changed for Halo 2.

"Waaaaah the warthog is too hard to drive". Here you go; here is your brick on wheels. But it's got a cute little horn just like the tricycle you rode to that Halo 1 lan on.

Weeeeeeeeeeeee!

A Grunt

  • 03.08.2005 11:18 AM PDT
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everyone has their own wants on what halo 2 should and shouldnt be, but the fact is that you cant change what is on the shiny disk you spin in your box every time you play it.

I think the questions that need to be adressed is downloadable content, and playlist changes for live.

Also, I think it would be a really good idea for the programmers to set up a forum asking the people what they would like to see as far as halo 3.

I really like the changing weather and windy conditions idea. Obviously you will get some nerds that think their opinion is the only viable one. But you would also get a lot of feedback from people who are genuinely passionate in helpiong create the best game possible. which halo has the ability to do.

It comes down to where to make the game as real as possible, and where to leave the reality out for fun effect.

I am surprised that there hasnt been patches for the cheating that is going on, but i am sure you guys at bungie are hard at work on stuff like that.

i cant see any room anyone would have to bash a video game that has impacted how gaming world more than halo2.

  • 03.08.2005 11:58 AM PDT

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