Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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  • Subject: A New Unofficial "Halo 3 PC" Thread
Subject: A New Unofficial "Halo 3 PC" Thread
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Chaos on game sessions FTW!

  • 08.01.2010 6:04 AM PDT

Halo Reach PC über alles!

From what I have read in this thread you guys are right to some degree, I know for a fact that Forge will NEVER live up to the expectations of a SDK, despite the improvements made in halo reach, but I also believe that it is possible to go above and beyond the game's limit on players (despite the fact it is an option) But in all honesty WHY ARE YOU ARGUING ABOUT THIS??? The game is probably never going to come out and you are getting mad about whether or not forge is better than a SDK and about how many players the game will support?


Regardless, Gearbox is most likely discussing whether or not they should make halo reach on the PC, considering an official teased it on their fourm and we have not heard any word back yet.

[Edited on 08.01.2010 8:51 AM PDT]

  • 08.01.2010 8:51 AM PDT

Using a PC SDK, you can GASP. MAKE AN ENTIRELY NEW GAME :O

  • 08.01.2010 9:18 AM PDT

Bring Back Rocket Race!!!


Posted by: stefen99

Posted by: DusK
Posted by: General Heed
What could you possibly make with PC mod tools that you can't make with the new Halo: Reach Forge?

Use UnrealEd or the Source SDK and say that again.

QFT!!!


and l4d2 is source 09 base alien swarm is running on a hybrid of 09 and 10(or 11, depending on when portal 2 is released)


and forge/Game sdks cannot even be compared...forge is crap, the new forge is garrysmod without 95% of the features, its nothing new

and my 128 ai theory? you didnt even understand what i was talking about i said 128 PLAYERS, ON PC, ON THE SOURCE ENGINE

and source can handle hundreds, possibly thousands of ai
without
"S E R V E R S I D E" lag keyword: serverside
im not saying xbox can handle that crap....and in the vidoc, im pretty sure i remember him saying upwards of 30 ai
i mean in halo3 i lagged when i fought 15 brutes at once


and when we say engine here, we're talking about physics, and always physics, game engine really doesnt mean that much, its basicly the hl2 base of tf2, its still powered by source.

source, and halo3 use a modified version of havok, google it

and lastly, if you really dont believe me about the serverside lag crap, il take the time to get "128" ai to battle, since thats the number you picked due to misreading my post



I'm comparing the Halo: Reach Forge to the tools provided in Halo 2 Vista. You can't use anything else to make Halo maps besides the HEK provided with the game which has been limited in the past. Assuming Halo: Reach PC follows that tradition, the HEK won't be that much better than Forge in Halo: Reach.

Yes, we're all aware Alien Swarm and L4D2 use the same engine. However, when we talk about game engines, most people don't talk about the physics engine cause that's kind of separate. A physics engine affects the physics of gameplay while a game engine is everything else such as graphics, net codes, etc. A physics engine has nothing to do with how many AI or players can play a game at one time.

Halo 3 works fine over 15 AI. I don't know why your game lagged. Remember the mission on the covenant? 2 scarabs, each carrying 15 or so enemies, complimented by several ground vehicles and banshees in the air against at least 20 marines and several hornets in the air. That's way over 50 AI and the game did not lag at all.

  • 08.01.2010 10:06 AM PDT

My Steam Community Profile - wazups2x

http://steamcommunity.com/id/wazups2x


Posted by: General Heed

Posted by: wazups2xs

Posted by: General Heed

Posted by: Moifugley
General Heed you are right, and I know Xbox 360 hardware can't handle alot, but it gets the job done.

On PC we can push the bar higher. =)


It's strange, despite the limits of Xbox 360 hardware, developers still manage to push it far beyond its limits. Halo: Reach is supposed to support hundreds of AI while still getting a graphical enhancement that's way beyond Halo 3. I think the game engine matters as much as the hardware. A good, efficient game engine can do more with limited hardware.


I never heard that Halo: Reach can support hundreds of AI, source?

Also, even if Halo: Reach could support hundreds of AI that's still nothing. ArmA II on the PC can support over 1500 AI.

Example Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KK6Fo3Y0AU

And Forge really is bad compared to PC mod tools. If Reach were on the PC I would want true mod tools. There is a ton of amazing mods on the PC that we would of never had if we only had something like forge. There is a ton of modders out there that they would make things even better than Bungie if they had the right tools.


My source is one of Bungie's viDoc on Halo: Reach. It's also mentioned many times in several of Bungie's weekly updates. I don't remember which viDoc it is, but there's only a couple viDocs so you shouldn't need to spend too much time looking through them.

What could you possibly make with PC mod tools that you can't make with the new Halo: Reach Forge? You know very well that Bungie/Microsoft will never release the full set of tools to mod maps. You'll probably get the same thing you got in Halo 2. From what i've seen in Halo 2 custom maps, many of those maps can be made in Halo: Reach Forge easily. Remember, this isn't Halo 3 Forge we're talking about. Forge in Halo: Reach is way beyond what we had in Halo 3.

So I ask again, what could you possibly make with a limited set of PC mod tools (like the one in Halo 2 Vista) that you can't make with the Halo: Reach Forge? You should watch the Forge World viDoc before you answer that question because I'm getting the feeling that you're basing a lot of your claims and statements off of the Halo 3 version of Forge.


Alright, I'll just take your word for it that Halo: Reach supports hundreds of AI. I don't want to take the time to search for that ViDoc. Although that's still nothing compared to ArmA II.

I've seen the ViDoc about forge and it's horrible compared to true mod tools. You can't make -blam!- with it.

Here's a few examples of what you can make with true mod tools that forge can't even compete with:

I Hate Mountains - an amazing L4D campaign, best campaign in L4D. With custom everything and even some new voice overs from the main characters.

FPS Terminator - originally a mod for Unreal Tournament III now being made into a full indie game.

GoldenEye: Source - a complete remake of the N64 game GoldenEye, with graphics updated to this time period, better controls, and more. It's great fun.

Star Wars Mod: Galactic Warfare - a mod for COD4 based on Star Wars. It's packed with pure Star Wars Awesomeness.

These are just a few examples of what PC mod tools can do. It shows just how bad Forge fails in comparison.




[Edited on 08.01.2010 10:49 AM PDT]

  • 08.01.2010 10:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: LoneStaruner
Using a PC SDK, you can GASP. MAKE AN ENTIRELY NEW GAME :O
:O
now queue in the remakes for Sonic the hedgehog, Left 4 Dead flood infection edition and other -blam!-

  • 08.01.2010 10:53 AM PDT

Grenades are like RAM, you can never have too much


Posted by: General Heed

Posted by: stefen99

Posted by: DusK
Posted by: General Heed
What could you possibly make with PC mod tools that you can't make with the new Halo: Reach Forge?

Use UnrealEd or the Source SDK and say that again.

QFT!!!


and l4d2 is source 09 base alien swarm is running on a hybrid of 09 and 10(or 11, depending on when portal 2 is released)


and forge/Game sdks cannot even be compared...forge is crap, the new forge is garrysmod without 95% of the features, its nothing new

and my 128 ai theory? you didnt even understand what i was talking about i said 128 PLAYERS, ON PC, ON THE SOURCE ENGINE

and source can handle hundreds, possibly thousands of ai
without
"S E R V E R S I D E" lag keyword: serverside
im not saying xbox can handle that crap....and in the vidoc, im pretty sure i remember him saying upwards of 30 ai
i mean in halo3 i lagged when i fought 15 brutes at once


and when we say engine here, we're talking about physics, and always physics, game engine really doesnt mean that much, its basicly the hl2 base of tf2, its still powered by source.

source, and halo3 use a modified version of havok, google it

and lastly, if you really dont believe me about the serverside lag crap, il take the time to get "128" ai to battle, since thats the number you picked due to misreading my post



I'm comparing the Halo: Reach Forge to the tools provided in Halo 2 Vista. You can't use anything else to make Halo maps besides the HEK provided with the game which has been limited in the past. Assuming Halo: Reach PC follows that tradition, the HEK won't be that much better than Forge in Halo: Reach.

Yes, we're all aware Alien Swarm and L4D2 use the same engine. However, when we talk about game engines, most people don't talk about the physics engine cause that's kind of separate. A physics engine affects the physics of gameplay while a game engine is everything else such as graphics, net codes, etc. A physics engine has nothing to do with how many AI or players can play a game at one time.

Halo 3 works fine over 15 AI. I don't know why your game lagged. Remember the mission on the covenant? 2 scarabs, each carrying 15 or so enemies, complimented by several ground vehicles and banshees in the air against at least 20 marines and several hornets in the air. That's way over 50 AI and the game did not lag at all.


we're talking about "PC mod tools" as you put it
H2EK doesnt even come close to that category,we're talking about real tools, like the abformentioned Source sdk

and that whole game engine/physics engine thing was started by you misreading my post again and thinking i said something entirely different.

source and halo engine both use a modified version of havok, thats what i was saying, i dont even remember why i was. but you misread that and started a different arguement, so please drop it.

  • 08.01.2010 11:19 AM PDT

Bring Back Rocket Race!!!


Posted by: wazups2xs

Posted by: General Heed

Posted by: wazups2xs

Posted by: General Heed

Posted by: Moifugley
General Heed you are right, and I know Xbox 360 hardware can't handle alot, but it gets the job done.

On PC we can push the bar higher. =)


It's strange, despite the limits of Xbox 360 hardware, developers still manage to push it far beyond its limits. Halo: Reach is supposed to support hundreds of AI while still getting a graphical enhancement that's way beyond Halo 3. I think the game engine matters as much as the hardware. A good, efficient game engine can do more with limited hardware.


I never heard that Halo: Reach can support hundreds of AI, source?

Also, even if Halo: Reach could support hundreds of AI that's still nothing. ArmA II on the PC can support over 1500 AI.

Example Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KK6Fo3Y0AU

And Forge really is bad compared to PC mod tools. If Reach were on the PC I would want true mod tools. There is a ton of amazing mods on the PC that we would of never had if we only had something like forge. There is a ton of modders out there that they would make things even better than Bungie if they had the right tools.


My source is one of Bungie's viDoc on Halo: Reach. It's also mentioned many times in several of Bungie's weekly updates. I don't remember which viDoc it is, but there's only a couple viDocs so you shouldn't need to spend too much time looking through them.

What could you possibly make with PC mod tools that you can't make with the new Halo: Reach Forge? You know very well that Bungie/Microsoft will never release the full set of tools to mod maps. You'll probably get the same thing you got in Halo 2. From what i've seen in Halo 2 custom maps, many of those maps can be made in Halo: Reach Forge easily. Remember, this isn't Halo 3 Forge we're talking about. Forge in Halo: Reach is way beyond what we had in Halo 3.

So I ask again, what could you possibly make with a limited set of PC mod tools (like the one in Halo 2 Vista) that you can't make with the Halo: Reach Forge? You should watch the Forge World viDoc before you answer that question because I'm getting the feeling that you're basing a lot of your claims and statements off of the Halo 3 version of Forge.


Alright, I'll just take your word for it that Halo: Reach supports hundreds of AI. I don't want to take the time to search for that ViDoc. Although that's still nothing compared to ArmA II.

I've seen the ViDoc about forge and it's horrible compared to true mod tools. You can't make -blam!- with it.

Here's a few examples of what you can make with true mod tools that forge can't even compete with:

I Hate Mountains - an amazing L4D campaign, best campaign in L4D. With custom everything and even some new voice overs from the main characters.

FPS Terminator - originally a mod for Unreal Tournament III now being made into a full indie game.

GoldenEye: Source - a complete remake of the N64 game GoldenEye, with graphics updated to this time period, better controls, and more. It's great fun.

Star Wars Mod: Galactic Warfare - a mod for COD4 based on Star Wars. It's packed with pure Star Wars Awesomeness.

These are just a few examples of what PC mod tools can do. It shows just how bad Forge fails in comparison.




I know PC mod tools are more capable than Forge. But what I'm talking about is the HEK (Halo Editing Kit). As you know, Microsoft has never provided the full set of tools in the HEK so an entirely new game currently cannot be made with the Halo Engine using the HEK.

I am making my Forge comparisons based on the previous HEK's. I'm not comparing it to other games because with other games, their SDK's are fully featured and thus you can produce many things. But when it comes to Halo, the HEK is vastly limited and the Halo: Reach version of Forge can actually for the first time, compare to an HEK provided in the past. That's what I've been trying to say.

  • 08.01.2010 11:21 AM PDT

My Steam Community Profile - wazups2x

http://steamcommunity.com/id/wazups2x

Posted by: General Heed

Posted by: wazups2xs

Alright, I'll just take your word for it that Halo: Reach supports hundreds of AI. I don't want to take the time to search for that ViDoc. Although that's still nothing compared to ArmA II.

I've seen the ViDoc about forge and it's horrible compared to true mod tools. You can't make -blam!- with it.

Here's a few examples of what you can make with true mod tools that forge can't even compete with:

I Hate Mountains - an amazing L4D campaign, best campaign in L4D. With custom everything and even some new voice overs from the main characters.

FPS Terminator - originally a mod for Unreal Tournament III now being made into a full indie game.

GoldenEye: Source - a complete remake of the N64 game GoldenEye, with graphics updated to this time period, better controls, and more. It's great fun.

Star Wars Mod: Galactic Warfare - a mod for COD4 based on Star Wars. It's packed with pure Star Wars Awesomeness.

These are just a few examples of what PC mod tools can do. It shows just how bad Forge fails in comparison.




I know PC mod tools are more capable than Forge. But what I'm talking about is the HEK (Halo Editing Kit). As you know, Microsoft has never provided the full set of tools in the HEK so an entirely new game currently cannot be made with the Halo Engine using the HEK.

I am making my Forge comparisons based on the previous HEK's. I'm not comparing it to other games because with other games, their SDK's are fully featured and thus you can produce many things. But when it comes to Halo, the HEK is vastly limited and the Halo: Reach version of Forge can actually for the first time, compare to an HEK provided in the past. That's what I've been trying to say.


You shouldn't be comparing it to the HEK because that's not what true mod tools are. Actually the HEK is still better than Forge, you still have more customize options with it. The Halo CE editor is even much better than Forge. Forge just isn't that good compared to PC standards. It's great for consoles though.

Edit: I quickly found a some mods for Halo CE and Halo 2 PC to show what you could do.

Halo CE Mod: http://www.moddb.com/mods/custom-mapping-team/videos/tsccomfi nal#imagebox

Halo CE Trial Mod: http://www.moddb.com/mods/halo-3-odst-for-trial

Halo 2 PC Mod: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cco2NzdOFn0

As you can see there is still much more customization with these than Forge.

[Edited on 08.01.2010 12:07 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2010 11:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: wazups2xs
Halo 2 PC Mod: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cco2NzdOFn0
That's not a mod you idiot.

  • 08.01.2010 12:04 PM PDT

My Steam Community Profile - wazups2x

http://steamcommunity.com/id/wazups2x


Posted by: Moifugley
Posted by: wazups2xs
Halo 2 PC Mod: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cco2NzdOFn0
That's not a mod you idiot.


A custom map is a mod.

  • 08.01.2010 12:09 PM PDT

My Youtube - Halo 2 Online Co-op
BUNGIE AND MICROSOFT FAILS HALO 2 VISTA.

Everytime someone buys a copy of Halo 2 Vista, a puppy dies.

Posted by: wazups2xs
Posted by: Moifugley
Posted by: wazups2xs
Halo 2 PC Mod: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cco2NzdOFn0
That's not a mod you idiot.

A custom map is a mod.
A mod is anything retrieved from any non-stock resources, or freely edited from the use of unofficial programs.

Custom map is official, not a mod.
I have made one mod for this -blam!- game, wanna see?

http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?21516-Mod-Trans parent-UI

I used hex editing and a .map modding program to achieve this, H2EK would never do this in a million years.

[Edited on 08.01.2010 12:14 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2010 12:11 PM PDT

My Steam Community Profile - wazups2x

http://steamcommunity.com/id/wazups2x


Posted by: Shock120
Posted by: wazups2xs
Posted by: Moifugley
Posted by: wazups2xs
Halo 2 PC Mod: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cco2NzdOFn0
That's not a mod you idiot.

A custom map is a mod.
A mod is anything retrieved from any non-stock resources, or freely edited from the use of unofficial programs.

Custom map is official, not a mod.
I have made one mod for this -blam!- game, wanna see?

http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?21516-Mod-Trans parent-UI

I used hex editing and a .map modding program to achieve this, H2EK would never do this in a million years.


According to Wikipedia a custom level is a mod.

A modification of a video game that either adds new items, levels or completely refurbishes either the gameplay or the entire game but keeps the core engine.


  • 08.01.2010 12:20 PM PDT

My Youtube - Halo 2 Online Co-op
BUNGIE AND MICROSOFT FAILS HALO 2 VISTA.

Everytime someone buys a copy of Halo 2 Vista, a puppy dies.

Posted by: wazups2xs

Posted by: Shock120
Posted by: wazups2xs
Posted by: Moifugley
Posted by: wazups2xs
Halo 2 PC Mod: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cco2NzdOFn0
That's not a mod you idiot.

A custom map is a mod.
A mod is anything retrieved from any non-stock resources, or freely edited from the use of unofficial programs.

Custom map is official, not a mod.
I have made one mod for this -blam!- game, wanna see?

http://www.modacity.net/forums/showthread.php?21516-Mod-Trans parent-UI

I used hex editing and a .map modding program to achieve this, H2EK would never do this in a million years.


According to Wikipedia a custom level is a mod.

A modification of a video game that either adds new items, levels or completely refurbishes either the gameplay or the entire game but keeps the core engine.


Stupid Wikipedia.
No person who mods and makes maps is going to use Wikipedia as a source.

Stupid and fail, Sidewinder was made using the official fail tools we Halo modders call the H2EK.

Custom level for a game that allows it, is a feature not a mod.
Anything that is disallowed, and goes against the fail nature of the game is a mod.

[Edited on 08.01.2010 12:32 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2010 12:24 PM PDT

My Steam Community Profile - wazups2x

http://steamcommunity.com/id/wazups2x

Okay, I don't really care. My point is that you can even do more with the horrible Halo 2 editor than you can do with Forge. Forge is a horrible map editor compared to PC standards.

Btw, I by no means like Halo 2, I hate Halo 2, it's a horrible console port.


[Edited on 08.01.2010 12:39 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2010 12:38 PM PDT

My Youtube - Halo 2 Online Co-op
BUNGIE AND MICROSOFT FAILS HALO 2 VISTA.

Everytime someone buys a copy of Halo 2 Vista, a puppy dies.

In my opinion, I prefer Forge to H2EK, because while Forgers can't edit the bsp, or anything else,
playing around with objects and spawning stuff in-game is what these EKs don't have.

I sincerely hate Halo 2 Vista with a passion.
Also Halo Custom Edition is where all the true and fun mods are.

  • 08.01.2010 1:24 PM PDT

Bring Back Rocket Race!!!


Posted by: Shock120
In my opinion, I prefer Forge to H2EK, because while Forgers can't edit the bsp, or anything else,
playing around with objects and spawning stuff in-game is what these EKs don't have.

I sincerely hate Halo 2 Vista with a passion.
Also Halo Custom Edition is where all the true and fun mods are.


With the exception of creating completely new maps from scratch, Forge in Halo: Reach provides functionality close to that of an HEK. And you're right, playing around in Forge is much more enjoyable than an HEK.

I think Halo 2 Vista was ok. It could've been a lot better though.

  • 08.01.2010 3:16 PM PDT
Subject: The New Official "Halo 3 PC" Thread

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/HR4PC

  • 08.01.2010 3:25 PM PDT

Grenades are like RAM, you can never have too much


Posted by: DelayedSuperset
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/HR4PC
'
reported

spawning objects, disabling physics and collisions
thats not close to what an editing kit can do
textures,bsps,weapons,vehicles,other tags,skyboxes,custom props npcs and ui's to name a FEW

  • 08.02.2010 2:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: stefen99

Posted by: DelayedSuperset
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/HR4PC
'
reported

spawning objects, disabling physics and collisions
thats not close to what an editing kit can do
textures,bsps,weapons,vehicles,other tags,skyboxes,custom props npcs and ui's to name a FEW
hey dude, read the rules, petitions on Bungie.net are banned, this isn't on Bungie.net

HEK like H2V is full of crap, and doesn't deserve the title of EK, but w/e

  • 08.02.2010 7:47 AM PDT

Grenades are like RAM, you can never have too much


Posted by: Moifugley
Posted by: stefen99

Posted by: DelayedSuperset
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/HR4PC
'
reported

spawning objects, disabling physics and collisions
thats not close to what an editing kit can do
textures,bsps,weapons,vehicles,other tags,skyboxes,custom props npcs and ui's to name a FEW
hey dude, read the rules, petitions on Bungie.net are banned, this isn't on Bungie.net

HEK like H2V is full of crap, and doesn't deserve the title of EK, but w/e

oh? i thought posting a link to another petition was the same thing
alright then, sorry about that (a million signatures wouldnt get reach ported to pc anyways)

  • 08.02.2010 10:00 AM PDT

Bring Back Rocket Race!!!


Posted by: Moifugley
Posted by: stefen99

Posted by: DelayedSuperset
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/HR4PC
'
reported

spawning objects, disabling physics and collisions
thats not close to what an editing kit can do
textures,bsps,weapons,vehicles,other tags,skyboxes,custom props npcs and ui's to name a FEW
hey dude, read the rules, petitions on Bungie.net are banned, this isn't on Bungie.net

HEK like H2V is full of crap, and doesn't deserve the title of EK, but w/e


Which is why Halo: Reach Forge is quite comparable to the stripped down HEK in H2V. But compared to a full EK, you're right, Forge is nothing.

  • 08.02.2010 9:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: General Heed
Which is why Halo: Reach Forge is quite comparable to the stripped down HEK in H2V. But compared to a full EK, you're right, Forge is nothing.
<3

  • 08.03.2010 4:44 AM PDT

Grenades are like RAM, you can never have too much


Posted by: Moifugley
Posted by: General Heed
Which is why Halo: Reach Forge is quite comparable to the stripped down HEK in H2V. But compared to a full EK, you're right, Forge is nothing.
<3

this is what we were saying for the last page or two, you just misunderstood us/we misunderstood you again

  • 08.03.2010 5:00 AM PDT

Bring Back Rocket Race!!!


Posted by: stefen99

Posted by: Moifugley
Posted by: General Heed
Which is why Halo: Reach Forge is quite comparable to the stripped down HEK in H2V. But compared to a full EK, you're right, Forge is nothing.
<3

this is what we were saying for the last page or two, you just misunderstood us/we misunderstood you again


Well now that we understand each other, let's move on to something else. Theater mode vs game demos? I'm sure you know what I mean by demo, but just in case, demos are recorded game data that you can play back again, much like Theater Mode.

  • 08.03.2010 9:46 AM PDT