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This topic has moved here: Subject: Bungie Weekly Update: 10/03/08
  • Subject: Bungie Weekly Update: 10/03/08
Subject: Bungie Weekly Update: 10/03/08

Kero 'Zenuree
Officer aboard the Reverence-class cruiser Intangible
Dn'end Legion

Posted by: grooverhank
Hey guys, good work on getting the cheating handled. One thing though, no mention of doing something about the absolutely disgusting language and verbal abuse (not the sporting kind, but the racist and bigoted kind) that is a constant in Multiplayer. I know that I can mute, but I'd like to be able to communicate during the matches. I know that I can block the matching to an offensive player, but why should this behavior be tolerated at all? I'm not a prude and I utilize "George Carlin's 7 words you can never say on Television" when the situation dictates, but the HATE speech and absolute no concern for other's HALO experience is very disturbing. At least start announcing that you are concerned with the negative phenomenon on a consistant basis to get the 'word out'. Perhaps the language will begin to curb. Thanks. I think that if nothing is done or the problem ignored, this issue will come back to bite HALO Live in the future...


I agree with you but I guess this issue is far harder to tackle than cheating etc...
I'm just glad Bungie takes the time to implement new stuff like this.

  • 10.05.2008 2:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: AnalogWeapon
Posted by: I Call Rockets
I said it last week and I'll say it again - this is completely ridiculous. You are really trying to dictate behavior to the point that you will ban people for quitting too much? How exactly do you know when it is "valid" to quit and it isn't? How do you know what real life circumstances surround my needing to quit? Are you going to ban people that play Halo 3 on military bases because they have to quit out of a game to do something important? Are you going to ban people that have biological problems and have to run to the bathroom frequently? Are you going to ask me what real life circumstances surrounded me needing to quit before you ban me, or are you just going to ban me without warning, without bothering to check if there could have been some other problem?

I can already predict the answer to this post -
"No, we ban for behavior. Our mystical banhammer is able to use it's mighty powers of clairvoyance to determine exactly what you are doing when you quit out of Halo 3. You have been warned."

And I can already predict the response of the community to this change -
People will simply go away from their controller instead of quitting, leaving their xbox in the game while they go do whatever they were going to do anyway.

Great, so now instead of getting a quitter in Team Slayer, I'm going to get some jackass who stands still the whole game getting killed by the enemy team and making it even harder for our team to win than it would have been if he had just quit.

Personally, I will continue quitting whenever the hell I feel like it. If you want to ban me for it, go right ahead. I'd rather not play this game than have some high and mighty game developers try to tell me that I HAVE to play it and that I HAVE to finish games, even if they are terrible garbage like splockets or half my team quits.

Fallout 3 will be out soon anyway.
I think you're missing the point slightly. It's pretty easy to determine if someone is quitting many times in a row.

I totally concur with your assertion that there are many valid reasons to quit (i.e. Anything immediately more important than a video game). However, one needs to bear in mind the fact that quitting negatively affects the game of everyone else involved in that game. When starting a game, the player has a pretty good idea of how long it will take (Give or take a few minutes). So that throws out all excuses based on events that the player knew would (Or were likely to) occur within that time frame.

In my experience (And from anecdotal information received here in the forums) people aren't getting banned if their patterns of quitting are natural. People are getting banned who have a perpetual problem with quitting. These patterns are pretty simple to identify and the available responses are really simple as well. Since video game developers spend a lot of their time creating code to recognize complex patterns and respond in the context of complex behaviors, I actually do trust that the ban hammer is a pretty smart little thing. :)

With that in mind, please let us know if you get banned for your natural quitting patterns. I would be as upset as you if people were getting banned who weren't making attempts to do anything wrong.


Ah, but the question then becomes "What is a natural pattern for quitting?" What parameters are used to determine if you are quitting too much?

If it is a simple quits over time equation, then what about the person who just happens to get unlucky and get several games in a row where his teammates quit, or he gets griefers on his team, or the opponents are using some form of cheating to win? Should he be banned because he just happened to get a bad streak of games? Even if he doesn't get banned for it, he now has more quitting on his record than he would have had had he happened to get lucky and get some awesome teammates / opponents for a few games in a row. Is it fair to punish this person because of events that are completely out of his control? Is it fair to punish someone that happens to play in a playlist that has a high instance of crappy games (for example, multi team, where you often get split up from your party members or the teams become wildly uneven because of other quitters or DLC FFA, where games are often completely sidetracked by people trying to get achievements)

If it isn't a simple quits over time equation, then some sort of discretion is being used. If so, then what is the criteria for discretion? What determines when it is "okay" to quit and when it isn't? Bungie should outline these criteria instead of throwing out nebulous threats. Again, I don't think that any automated system can be perfect enough to exercise discretion and be able to tell the difference between a "perpetual quitter" and "someone who quits with valid reasons." I don't think the system can, for example, tell the difference between a guy who just quits in DLC FFA whenever he wants to and a guy who happens to get achievement boosting morons 5 games in a row. Should the latter person be punished becuse he doesn't want to have to finish a game with people who aren't playing? His quitting isn't detracting from the other players experiences in any way - in fact, they are detracting from his.

Cheating, Boosting, and other miscreant behavious are easily detectable - there is no way you can justify boosting yourself to general, for example. Quitting is a much more nebulous area. And since we have already seen many people crying foul over the current rash of bannings (whether they really are being banned unfairly or not), I'm not exactly inclined to trust the automated system that they are using. And considering all of the arrogance with which they have been displaying lately by making threads to laugh at banned people and telling us that the only valid reason to quit is in an emergency (implied by the "on fire" comments), I'm not inclined to believe that they are going to behave reasonably when the hammer drops on someone who was quitting for legitimate reasons.

But don't worry and have faith. Bungie is all knowing and all powerful - they can't make mistakes.



  • 10.05.2008 3:53 PM PDT

Other Halo 3 account: X NEUROSIS

Dead Halo 2 Accounts:
Cowsaresexy
Ap0calypt1c
TDT Zeeby
Dazed Penguin
Humaslay3r

See the thing about the boosting. What use is it now when so many people have done it already. I mean there are people out there with 2500 games and 5000 exp. I know it helps for future boosters, but now people dont need to do it anymore, its done with for the most part. I think this new hammer came in a little too late.

  • 10.05.2008 5:04 PM PDT

.................................,-;;-=-,_____
,-------------------------.___/-----i````````'\--`\ .
|-------------xvxvxvxvxvxv--o-~~~~~~o--,\======
|_______|_o_./``/--/`;````~----------------~`
..................... /_/``

I LIKE THE IDEA:
the bannhammer is great because i always get put with a booster that quits.
but what i dont get is that im not a booster/cheater and i got banhammered.

im not asking to be unbanned but could you tell me why.

  • 10.05.2008 6:32 PM PDT

When life gives you lemons..... BUILD A LEMON BOMB!!!!

I am so excited!

  • 10.05.2008 6:34 PM PDT
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I dont get it, why do people get banned for doing something as small as doing a little cheat to make themselves faster and not people who hack? there is such thing as targeting or auto sniping. ive seen so many people do it, and no its not luck or skill. they shoot me or any other person in the head like they are using a different weapon and BAM! right in te head. ive done some stuff like jump in the air or boost on a ghost and i get shot in the head EVERY TIME. there is no way that anyone can make some of the shots that they do. they hit them right in the head. they have to be cheating because no one is that good at sniping. there once was someone that was just spawn killing us when i was playing DLC big team. there were like 3 ppl comming after him at once(including me), and we were about 10ft away from him and he shoots us all in the head! no shots missed! and we also were jumping in the air and everything. how do you explain that? why dont you add that in in all the other reasons why people get banned?

  • 10.05.2008 7:45 PM PDT
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Hello? can anyone tell me why that is?

  • 10.05.2008 7:53 PM PDT
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not quite sure. but i have a question, is the 7 on 7 achievement only for icy treats maps? i mean like, if i got 7 exp in social slayer and played a game on the 7th with 7 exp, would i still get the achievement?

[Edited on 10.05.2008 8:06 PM PDT]

  • 10.05.2008 8:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: iownbungieAthalo
I dont get it, why do people get banned for doing something as small as doing a little cheat to make themselves faster and not people who hack? there is such thing as targeting or auto sniping. ive seen so many people do it, and no its not luck or skill. they shoot me or any other person in the head like they are using a different weapon and BAM! right in te head. ive done some stuff like jump in the air or boost on a ghost and i get shot in the head EVERY TIME. there is no way that anyone can make some of the shots that they do. they hit them right in the head. they have to be cheating because no one is that good at sniping. there once was someone that was just spawn killing us when i was playing DLC big team. there were like 3 ppl comming after him at once(including me), and we were about 10ft away from him and he shoots us all in the head! no shots missed! and we also were jumping in the air and everything. how do you explain that? why dont you add that in in all the other reasons why people get banned?


Boosting is sorta like hacking into the game just to get experience, dumbass.

  • 10.05.2008 8:41 PM PDT

There are only two things I hate in the world. People intolerant of other peoples cultures, and the Dutch


Don't hate my hands just cause they smell of cabbage.

Ah, sweet,sweet photoshop to lighten my heavily procrastinating lifestyle. HAHAHA COSPLAY

Also boosting can be collaboration in social with friends...will not describe

[Edited on 10.05.2008 8:43 PM PDT]

  • 10.05.2008 8:43 PM PDT

to tell you the ture yes it suck,,,,, but when the new map is coming out ? and how much MS point it will cost on Xbox 360

  • 10.05.2008 8:59 PM PDT
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hay ive been wondering, when do the mithc maps come out

  • 10.05.2008 9:15 PM PDT

Idle Hands

Very nice, I like.

  • 10.05.2008 11:55 PM PDT

I still don't understand about this banhammer thing - what is boosting? And what is network manipulation?

  • 10.06.2008 5:18 AM PDT

Good update man. Thanks.

  • 10.06.2008 5:33 AM PDT
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I'm pretty sure the picture was a joke on how Luke and Ske7ch are in Tokyo, and Shishka mentioned Harajuku. Harajuku is the place in Toyko where people put on their scary costumes and walk around the park. I live in Tokyo, I'd know. Harajuku is also one of the only places in Tokyo where the iPhone 3G isn't sold out, and it's where I got my iPhone 3G.

  • 10.06.2008 5:46 AM PDT

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

At this rate soon the hammer will pop up on your screen just before someone does something stupid. Bravo!

  • 10.06.2008 5:52 AM PDT

It'll be just like Minority Report!

  • 10.06.2008 5:58 AM PDT
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Once again, Bungie is ahead of the curve in this generation.
Say what you will about Halo 3's graphics maybe not being at the top of the heap, but innovation...they are number 1.

I honestly thought most developers would have copied the "Saved Films" feature from Halo 3, but not only has nobody thought to do that, Bungie themselves have gone the extra mile with this.

I think this feature should be in EVERY game in this, and the next generations.

Great move Bungie.

  • 10.06.2008 6:11 AM PDT

I work here: Sound Devices, LLC. We make bad-ass field audio gear, and you think that's awesome. My messy desk (With work-related items on the computer screen).

One does not simply grenade jump into Mordor...

Posted by: I Call Rockets
Ah, but the question then becomes "What is a natural pattern for quitting?" What parameters are used to determine if you are quitting too much?

If it is a simple quits over time equation, then what about the person who just happens to get unlucky and get several games in a row where his teammates quit, or he gets griefers on his team, or the opponents are using some form of cheating to win? Should he be banned because he just happened to get a bad streak of games? Even if he doesn't get banned for it, he now has more quitting on his record than he would have had had he happened to get lucky and get some awesome teammates / opponents for a few games in a row. Is it fair to punish this person because of events that are completely out of his control? Is it fair to punish someone that happens to play in a playlist that has a high instance of crappy games (for example, multi team, where you often get split up from your party members or the teams become wildly uneven because of other quitters or DLC FFA, where games are often completely sidetracked by people trying to get achievements)

If it isn't a simple quits over time equation, then some sort of discretion is being used. If so, then what is the criteria for discretion? What determines when it is "okay" to quit and when it isn't? Bungie should outline these criteria instead of throwing out nebulous threats. Again, I don't think that any automated system can be perfect enough to exercise discretion and be able to tell the difference between a "perpetual quitter" and "someone who quits with valid reasons." I don't think the system can, for example, tell the difference between a guy who just quits in DLC FFA whenever he wants to and a guy who happens to get achievement boosting morons 5 games in a row. Should the latter person be punished becuse he doesn't want to have to finish a game with people who aren't playing? His quitting isn't detracting from the other players experiences in any way - in fact, they are detracting from his.

Cheating, Boosting, and other miscreant behavious are easily detectable - there is no way you can justify boosting yourself to general, for example. Quitting is a much more nebulous area. And since we have already seen many people crying foul over the current rash of bannings (whether they really are being banned unfairly or not), I'm not exactly inclined to trust the automated system that they are using. And considering all of the arrogance with which they have been displaying lately by making threads to laugh at banned people and telling us that the only valid reason to quit is in an emergency (implied by the "on fire" comments), I'm not inclined to believe that they are going to behave reasonably when the hammer drops on someone who was quitting for legitimate reasons.

But don't worry and have faith. Bungie is all knowing and all powerful - they can't make mistakes.
These are excellent points and I guess I don't disagree with anything you're saying. It's hard to begrudge anyone for quitting when they get a string of games against boosters or other game-ruiners. I also share your desire for Bungie to be more transparent as far as what is being monitored / sensed by the system. I assume that Bungie keeps this stuff in the dark because they are concerned that it will just help people circumvent the system. I'm not sure if I agree with that.

As I alluded to before, these forums are the early warning signs that good people are getting netted unfairly in the ban hammer. Those people are likely to be the most vocal about their situation. I wouldn't want to be the one who has to wade through all this to find those people, but I'm guessing there is someone who get's paid to do that.

BTW: I do think Bungie is pretty neat; Just like I think a lot of other companies / artists are pretty neat because of the art they produce, or the way the way they conduct themselves. I'm 26 years old; I don't really have the imagination required to be a blindly faithful fanboy.

I guess when the community consists primarily of younger people who are much more egocentric by nature (And therefor more inclined to find any possible way they can to break the system), the choice is either to provide a sub-par online experience or net a few goods in with the tons of bads.

  • 10.06.2008 7:09 AM PDT
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Great Update! Looking forward to the modifications! That pic was hillarious.

  • 10.06.2008 8:13 AM PDT

Get WorkPLaced!!

I gave up on the File Forums so very long ago, and now Bungie is perfecting everything.
Literally just yesterday I told my friend, why do we spawn with grenades in swords, people just spam nades everywhere. I also told him how out of 22 games I never got Oddball on a Legendary map.

Bungie has come to the rescue, thanks guys, you don't know how much I appreciate your work and dedication.

  • 10.06.2008 8:47 AM PDT

Nice up-date Shishka, pretty disturbing picture at the end though lol Keep up the good work

PK

  • 10.06.2008 9:50 AM PDT

Feel free to msg me over B.net or XBL if you wan't to talk halo or any other game.
____________
GT:WhatHitu
Clan:Cobra

hey So bungie what kind of information do you collect from eastern countrys like japan when you travle there since you are a western company and hi again skisha So when dose this update go live (fackt or estemation) and what do you do with the unused files do you just remove them because some are linked to inactive acounts. Finaly will you guys add suport for vewing vids on bungie favorites as wmv's or will we have to convert them to our hardrive (please be the first option)

The one truly adicted halo user WhatHitu

Update:Muhahaha I'm gona pump out like thousands of michinimas MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!(It continues but I thin ill spare you and me all the typeing and just say theres lots more typeing and somthing about joining the dark side cuz we got cookys)

[Edited on 10.06.2008 10:14 AM PDT]

  • 10.06.2008 10:10 AM PDT

ItsK

well im glad i will be unbanned soon...im gonna try real hard to not get banned again. you guys have heard enough complaining so i will just let it be.

  • 10.06.2008 11:33 AM PDT