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This topic has moved here: Poll [41 votes]: can the humans win by strength of arms (not using forerunner tech)
  • Poll [41 votes]: can the humans win by strength of arms (not using forerunner tech)
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Subject: Could the humans win by strength of arms???? where are human's...
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Poll: can the humans win by strength of arms (not using forerunner tech)  [closed]
yes:  22%
(9 Votes)
no:  39%
(16 Votes)
only with master chief:  39%
(16 Votes)
Total Votes: 41

FOr some reason, with 200+ planets remaining, the human fleet was numbered in the hundreds. Given that the war took 20+years, the industrial capabilities of the colonies would have made much more ships!!!!! (around 2000+ if each planet made ten.)

Who thinks that humans could scrape up the fleet and dish it out?

[Edited on 4/21/2004 6:26:25 PM]

  • 04.21.2004 6:23 PM PDT
Subject: Could the humans win by strength of arms???????????????????????????...
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Everyone knows the quality of the Covenant technology far surpases that of the Human. Its states clearly both in the books and game that the Covenant have faster ships, and more powerful weapons (which in terms of the weapons I suppose is arguable because the humans do have MACs and they are fairly strong). As I said, practically the only thing the humans have for an advantage is Master Chief's skills, not the weapons he uses, but the skills and abilities he puts forth to counter the Covenant.

  • 04.21.2004 6:27 PM PDT
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Humans have nearly NO chance in ship battles! and I'm sure the covenant have a lot more of their ships in reserve, they might have some super ship that could be four times bigger than the humans flagship, and might have impeneratrable shields! ship to ship battles is the worst place humans could put their money on!

  • 04.21.2004 6:27 PM PDT
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I dunno, the end of First Strike has me worried about this. The Prophet of Truth or whatever said that the some 600 ships destroyed by the Unyielding Helophant or whatever, was a minor setback. This leads me to believe that the Covies have a damn big fleet....or are just over-confident. It isn't looking good for the home team...

  • 04.21.2004 6:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: Stalking Puma
Humans have nearly NO chance in ship battles! and I'm sure the covenant have a lot more of their ships in reserve, they might have some super ship that could be four times bigger than the humans flagship, and might have impeneratrable shields! ship to ship battles is the worst place humans could put their money on!


This is true, but remember the new way to fire plasma that Cortana devised? And all the other technology that they discovered with the dismantling of the Covie AI? I'm guessing that maybe the tides could turn, so to speak, in Halo 2; as far as space battles go. But as I said before, I'm still somewhat worried....the Covies do seem very confident.

  • 04.21.2004 6:31 PM PDT
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Anyone remember form I think it was the fall of reach? The unknown long ranged white plasma shooting covvie cruiser?

It said it was invisible then appeared way out of range of the orbital cannons and blastedabout 3 of them away with a powerful white heated plasma bolt from i think 2 or 4 cannons at once

  • 04.21.2004 6:32 PM PDT
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yeah, but don't you get the sense that humans never made any ships during the convenant war?

take wwII for example, the russians with little economy produced a quarter of a million tanks.

While they were inferior in the beginning to the Germans, they were improved upon (i.e the t-34), and they were produced in greater numbers.

During the 20 years of the convenant war, the humans should have been able to upgrade their ships to convenant standards, and they should have a least been able to replace lost ships.

  • 04.21.2004 6:33 PM PDT
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who cares if the covies have better guns...we got the chief!!!

  • 04.21.2004 6:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Master Bate
yeah, but don't you get the sense that humans never made any ships during the convenant war?

take wwII for example, the russians with little economy produced a quarter of a million tanks.

While they were inferior in the beginning to the Germans, they were improved upon (i.e the t-34), and they were produced in greater numbers.

During the 20 years of the convenant war, the humans should have been able to upgrade their ships to convenant standards, and they should have a least been able to replace lost ships.


Thats a great point. The way I see it though, is the humans really have no time to be building and repairing ships or any technology that takes time and work. It sounds stupid but think about it. The Covenant are quickly gaining information of the location of earth. I really dont see how they would have time to focusing on manufacturing and creating new types of munitions. They have the conflict that the possibility of the Covenant coming nearer to Earth to deal with, a much greater problem to deal with then researching new forms of weaponry and then after eventually finding some success. However, I do agree with you. Finding new forms of effective weaponry against the Covenant may be Earths last hope alongside Master Chief and the mystery of the survival of the remaining Spartans. So I am on both sides of the fence on this one.

  • 04.21.2004 6:43 PM PDT
Subject: Could the humans win by strength of arms???? where are human's...
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In thirty years of fighting we have only won 5 space battles total. And in those we outnumbered them 3 to 1 or more. Plus considering they lost their fleet at Halo, the Uneven Elephant, and pushed it aside like it was nothing shows we have no chance. Remeber that is over 500 ships alone at the Uneven, another 100 at Reach and about 60 on Halo. We have no real chance.

  • 04.21.2004 6:44 PM PDT
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The thing is that some sort of covenant tech musta been researched because if the humans can re-engineer jackals shields to encompass armour, they could probably do it for ships. Cortana can alreay do superior slipspace jumps now that she has the covie machine, and she knows all the data about plasma weapons. Mabye in halo 2 at earth the last of the UNSC fleet of super destroyers (the ones that were talked about being pulled back in Halo: FoR) will be fitted with covenant tech that is BETTER than the covies own, just like MC.

  • 04.21.2004 6:48 PM PDT
Subject: Could the humans win by strength of arms???????????????????????????...
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How did the russians in wwII have to time to make all those equipments?
Their capital was about to be captured, along with Stalingrad, yet their production of arms never stalled.

I estimate that if humans were really pushed in the halo universe then they wouldn't have trouble making 10s of thousands of ships, in the 25 years. Even with a casualty ratio of 2:1, we would still have way more ships left than the few ships at Reach. Think about it, with resources from 200+colonies, that's a lot of potential.

  • 04.21.2004 6:56 PM PDT
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But to build star ships of any significant size, though, you need massive orbital facilities. And in the Halo books, these facilities don't appear to be very common as only Reach is described as having any. We can assume that there are probably shipyards near Earth, but that isn't definate. During the meeting at the UNSC High Command on Earth, someone says that the orbital platforms around Earth would come online in 10 days, so maybe they didn't have any major ship building facilities besides Reach, which was clearly stated as the best defended Human system.
By the way, the MC and the other survivors onboard the Gettysburg are do to arrive at Earth on Sep 13, exactly 10 days after that meeting, which took place on the 3rd of September. And during the announcement trailer, the MC seems to arrive during the middle of a battle, so maybe the Covenant attack right before the orbital platforms become opperational. The timetable for this is really short, however, and the Covenant would need to move a second fleet fast to get there in time. But maybe the remnants of the crystal from Reach will allow them to make such a fast attack.

  • 04.22.2004 2:37 PM PDT
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Humans don't have a chance.
A lot of the human fleet was destroyed at reach, and humans don't have a chance to build new ships because the covenant are always conducting raids or glassing planets.
The only way the humans can win is by sending the MC to hit the convenant were it hurts. Maybe destroy their command centre or something.

  • 04.22.2004 2:41 PM PDT
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or maybe the covenant launched two fleets that would explain why the prophit sounded so confident

  • 04.22.2004 2:46 PM PDT
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I'm pretty sure that Earth has shipbuilding facilities. It is the capitol of the UN, and also probably has the largest population of any human world. with cortanas new knowledge of covenant plasma and engine technologies, plus what other technological marvels she'll be able to discover once she has time to look through all the info she downloaded from halo, I think that any new human ships would be able to kick some serious blam! there would not be very many of them but since human strength is centered on ground forces all these ships would need to be able to do is fight through any covenant fleet surrounding a planet drop their troops off and then resort to guerilla tactics inside the solar system to keep the local covenant ships busy while the marines do their job.

  • 04.22.2004 2:54 PM PDT
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The russians beat the germans by scheer numbers alone and lost alot of men (as well as wemon since they used them in battle, but they kinda looked like men back then) and they pushed the germans back to germany, So with mabye 20 : 1 ratio then mabye.

  • 04.22.2004 3:04 PM PDT
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of corse humans will win or there is no story. Also crotana absobed all the data on halo and in the first strike she gor all the info off the covenant flag ship so when people say that humans don't have a chance remember S.T.O.R.Y

  • 04.22.2004 5:19 PM PDT
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don't be dum war cuases advancement in science engieneering and other things.

  • 04.22.2004 5:22 PM PDT
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but in one of the books it says that the covenant cant think for themselves they are only imitative....remember that cortane could go into a covenant database and improve almost everything. so the humans may win just because they are smarter

  • 04.22.2004 5:28 PM PDT
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but they couldnt get the covenant technology because whenever a covy ship was disabled and the humans tried to board it they would self-destruct. the only time they got one was in Halo the game (truth and reconciliation) and in the third book(first strike)

  • 04.22.2004 5:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: GolanX4
But to build star ships of any significant size, though, you need massive orbital facilities. And in the Halo books, these facilities don't appear to be very common as only Reach is described as having any. We can assume that there are probably shipyards near Earth, but that isn't definate. During the meeting at the UNSC High Command on Earth, someone says that the orbital platforms around Earth would come online in 10 days, so maybe they didn't have any major ship building facilities besides Reach, which was clearly stated as the best defended Human system.
By the way, the MC and the other survivors onboard the Gettysburg are do to arrive at Earth on Sep 13, exactly 10 days after that meeting, which took place on the 3rd of September. And during the announcement trailer, the MC seems to arrive during the middle of a battle, so maybe the Covenant attack right before the orbital platforms become opperational. The timetable for this is really short, however, and the Covenant would need to move a second fleet fast to get there in time. But maybe the remnants of the crystal from Reach will allow them to make such a fast attack.


I doubt that the remnants of the crystal are official halo related. The authors can sometimes get carried off.

  • 04.22.2004 6:31 PM PDT
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Oh sure the Covenant weapons are good. But Cortana also had access to the weapons technology on the Fortress World. I wonder how much better an accelerated particle beam is than a Plasma charge. We'll use tactics in space battles, when your fighting a superior opponent fight them some place where their vessels technology becomes less useful, even if your technology degrades slightly. If you think your going to die, ram them. Or send them an email that you just recieved a phone call from the Forerunners saying to stop. Then give your stuff to the humans.

  • 04.22.2004 6:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: GolanX4
But to build star ships of any significant size, though, you need massive orbital facilities. And in the Halo books, these facilities don't appear to be very common as only Reach is described as having any. We can assume that there are probably shipyards near Earth, but that isn't definate. During the meeting at the UNSC High Command on Earth, someone says that the orbital platforms around Earth would come online in 10 days, so maybe they didn't have any major ship building facilities besides Reach, which was clearly stated as the best defended Human system.
By the way, the MC and the other survivors onboard the Gettysburg are do to arrive at Earth on Sep 13, exactly 10 days after that meeting, which took place on the 3rd of September. And during the announcement trailer, the MC seems to arrive during the middle of a battle, so maybe the Covenant attack right before the orbital platforms become opperational. The timetable for this is really short, however, and the Covenant would need to move a second fleet fast to get there in time. But maybe the remnants of the crystal from Reach will allow them to make such a fast attack.


If we didn't build any ore orbital platforms other than reach or earth, then we are stupid. We deserve to be extinct.

In a war, we use all avalaible resources. You are telling me that humans never had the foresight to make more shipyards. They can't possibly take 20 years to make one.

[Edited on 4/22/2004 7:00:56 PM]

  • 04.22.2004 6:59 PM PDT
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We still have ship building facilities at mars and most like Earth. As well as other colony worlds. Reach was just our biggest of the big.

  • 04.22.2004 7:12 PM PDT

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