Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: One of those "twists" to occur in Halo 2 (speculation, po...
  • Subject: One of those "twists" to occur in Halo 2 (speculation, po...
Subject: One of those "twists" to occur in Halo 2 (speculation, po...
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Ive recently reread The Fall of Reach and First Strike and Ive found what might be a clue to some of the new aliens we might see in Halo 2 as well as possible links between the Covenant, Forerunner and Humans.

Whether or not the new enemies are from a Covenant race or Forerunner I've yet to decide, but Im certain it will be one or the other.

(I wish I had TFoR as a reference because it mentions abnormally high walls somewhere in there too, but since I dont have the page number Im not using that as a reference.)

Ok, basically I've found what I believe to be signs of a BIG alien race to appear in Halo 2. Before continuing on, check out the following quotes from First Strike:

p. 60 - In reference to the Covenant ship Ascendant Justice

"The architecture of the Covenant fighter bay was similar to the interior of the other Covenant ship the Chief had recently been inside, the Truth and Reconciliation. Low indirect lights illuminated the dark purple walls. The alien metal appeared to be stenciled with odd, faintly luminescent geometric patterns that overlapped each other. The ceiling was vaulted and unnecessarily high, maybe ten meters. In contrast to a human ship, it was a waste of space."

Now, in comparison, p. 138 - Underground trail beneath CASTLE Base

"Fred entered next, sliding through the vent duct, It twisted and turned and finally dumped him into a long tunnel of rougly hewn granite. The ceiling was ten meters high and -- judging from the three-meter-wide tire tracks in the dust -- big enough for heavy equipment to have rolled through."

Interesting how both Covenant ships and this underground passageway are both 10 meters high. Waste of space? Or maybe the creators are actually that tall? What kind of alien race would be 10 meters tall?

Also, a few pages later on p. 142 - In regards to the new passageway Fred opened up

"This new corridor was twenty meters high -- large enough for a titan to stride down its length."

Tell me thats not a tease. Something big, and by big I mean tall, is headed our way in Halo 2. Im still unsure whether or not it will be Covenant or Forerunner, or maybe a whole other species all together. I cant find the exact quote but at some point Cortana says something along the lines of "the Covenant are imitative not innovative" or something to that effect. Could the Covenant be copying off of Forerunner architecture or is there a race of super-tall aliens in the Covenant hierarchy? Or perhaps the Forerunner themselves were extremely tall?

Interestingly enough, the area under CASTLE Base is very reminiscent of The Library back on Halo.

p. 139 - The granite walls beneath CASTLE Base

"Fred followed the trail of odd symbols along the left-hand stone wall until they twisted into a spiral mosaic and vanished into ever-smaller curls. The symbols were part of the rock, composed of glittering mica inclusions in the granite matrix. There were a series of squares, triangles, bars and dots, similar to Covenant calligraphy he had seen -- but at the same time it was simpler, cleaner, and when Fred focused on them, the characters seemed to blur around their edges and fade from his stare."

Two things to note here. The most important in relation to the Library is the glittering mica inclusions in the granite. Go jump on Halo and check out the walls between the shimmering blue panels against the wall in the Library. On the walls are small scattered dots that flash blue and yellow. Just chalk that up as one more similarity between the Library and the underground caves.

The second thing to note is the Covenant calligraphy. Im betting the writing is actually Forerunner, similar to the Covenant only because they copied it. This would lead one to believe the Forerunner were the ones that were tall. But no one knows how far back Covenant history goes... maybe they once inhabited Reach and wrote stuff down there.

So now we have abnormally high ceilings on Forerunner installations, Covenant warships, and Human colonies, which cant be just a coincidence.

Also of interest: there might be another area like the Library and the cave under CASTLE Base on Earth.

p. 100 (First Strike) - UNSC High Command Facility Bravo-6

"Although he had barely felt the descent, Wagner knew he had dropped three kilometers into the planet, through solid layers of granite, reinforced concrete, plates of Titanium-A, and EMP-hardened metal. None of this made him feel any safer, though; ONIs research facility on Reach had the same setup, and it hadn't done those poor bastards and good."

Theres that granite again. Im convinced its not just a coincidence anymore. Plus with Ackerson at that facility you just KNOW something is hidden away there. Possibly another crystal or rock with another star-reference chart embedded into it. Perhaps that is how we venture to the next Halo installation? Maybe Covenant isnt bent on Human destruction so much as it is claiming the object beneath the base on Earth?

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Tall aliens, links between Halo, Reach, Earth, and Covenant ships, and a way for us to get to the next Halo installation.

Oh, and did I mention "granite" means "Unyielding endurance" or "Unyielding firmness." Unyielding... hmm.. I know I've heard of that somewhere before. =)

Thoughts?

EDIT: Just checking my spelling

[Edited on 4/21/2004 7:51:03 PM]

  • 04.21.2004 7:42 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

interesting speculation. It would make perfect sense though that the library and the underground tunnels would apper similar: the covenant were searching for the crystal that was kept by the forerunners or something, and Halo was obviously built by the forerunners. About the tall beings, It seems that Halo was pretty destitute of life, and it also seemed that they were a long extinct race that left derelict ringworlds... I dunno
-Aeoin

  • 04.21.2004 7:52 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Very good, KiGlow. Very good indeed. Very nice work on relating everything (but some of it was obvious, no offense) Especially on the granite speculation. I never would've thought of that.

But on the Forerunners' size, I'm not sure. In many of the places on Halo, yes, the hallways seem unnecessarily large. But, also, a lot of the hallways are also quite small (only a little taller than the Chief). They could've been big worms that could squirm through things, or maybe not. We humans have built things very large before, just for kicks, show, and devotion (Mont St. Michelle (spelling error possibility) is a very good example, if you've seen it or know what it is... not just the sturcture itself, but even the hallways and rooms). We like to have things roomy, and tend to think that "the bigger, the better." Its not terribly uncommon. Perhaps the Covenant do the same with their ships?

But...

In the Library, the holopanels are very high up. Out of reach for any human or Covenant. Perhaps the Forerunners were very large, but able to fit into comparatively small spaces (like a long worm), or maybe the use of the Library was reserved for floating machines like 343 Guilty Spark and the Sentinels.

Again, very good work.

  • 04.21.2004 8:06 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Well, you do make a good point, all those unnecessarily high ceilings can't simply be a coincidence. Wouldn't that be a surprise, to be walking through some forerunner facility, and encounter some 10 m tall giant. Good thing the MC can sprint this time :)

  • 04.21.2004 8:15 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

But on the Forerunners' size, I'm not sure. In many of the places on Halo, yes, the hallways seem unnecessarily large. But, also, a lot of the hallways are also quite small (only a little taller than the Chief). They could've been big worms that could squirm through things, or maybe not. We humans have built things very large before, just for kicks, show, and devotion (Mont St. Michelle (spelling error possibility) is a very good example, if you've seen it or know what it is... not just the sturcture itself, but even the hallways and rooms). We like to have things roomy, and tend to think that "the bigger, the better." Its not terribly uncommon. Perhaps the Covenant do the same with their ships?
i.e. the cathedrals that were built during the middle ages because of religious devotion. Cortana even says that the Control Room looks alot like a shrine or temple. I'm thinking it's to show advanced architectural design at it's best.

  • 04.21.2004 8:24 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Thats interesting with what you came up with and i agree with it. I also noticed the relationships in the cieling heights in the covie ship and the cave on reach, just never gave it any in-depth thought.

After you brought up granite meaning unyielding i got curious so i looked up hierophant which means An interpreter of sacred mysteries, which is kind of like a prophet. I know it has nothing to do with the thread but curiosity over came me.

  • 04.21.2004 9:40 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Bray D
Thats interesting with what you came up with and i agree with it. I also noticed the relationships in the cieling heights in the covie ship and the cave on reach, just never gave it any in-depth thought.

After you brought up granite meaning unyielding i got curious so i looked up hierophant which means An interpreter of sacred mysteries, which is kind of like a prophet. I know it has nothing to do with the thread but curiosity over came me.


I also looked up the meaning for hierophant but neglected to mention its definition. Perhaps the crystal from Reach holds some sort of religious significance. Well, of course it does... being sought after by the Covenant and all. With its space/time bending properties the Covenant might see it as a way of controlling the universe. Either that or some other extremely important power. I wonder if Earth has one of these crystals in the Halo world, and if its something that actually exists in the real world.

Food for thought.

  • 04.21.2004 10:33 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Oh, and did I mention "granite" means "Unyielding endurance" or "Unyielding firmness." Unyielding... hmm.. I know I've heard of that somewhere before. =)

Thoughts?

EDIT: Just checking my spelling



Wow. i think you discovered something very interesting. I think you made a very important discovery with the granite that keeps poping up. You also ended your post with the comparison between the meanings of granite and the name of the Unyeilding Hierophant from First Strike. I went farther and looked um Hierophant. Webster dictionary says its an Ancient Greek priest or chief priest of Eleusian mysteries. Mysteries eh? Well what about Eleusian? I looked that up too and it is defined, of or relating to the ancient Elusis or to the religious mysteries celebrated there in the worship of Demeter and Persephone. Religious under tones just like the covenant. mmmm?

I went further... Demeter, a Greek goddess of agriculture was married to Zues. they had a daughter named Persephone. Persephone's story goes that she was abducted by Pluto to reign with him over the underworld. So, what the hell does this have to do with Halo? I haven really the slightes clue but i think that there is a connection. Perhaps its a comment on the Covenant (or Pluto- god of the underworld), who appear evil (evil is associated with the underworld) are trying to kidnap the forerunner technology/knowledge that is symbolic of Persepone the parent of the tech/knowledge (who is Zues then?). If this is true, then the forerunner are playing the part of Demeter. Now think about this:Agriculture supplies food for a civilized society. Perhaps the forerunners created civilizations and/or sentieant life in the universe? Perhaps they created them as food for their/the Flood? Who knows.

Anyone else have some speculation to add on my findings?

[Edited on 4/21/2004 11:28:17 PM]

  • 04.21.2004 11:22 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I had another thought, what if the underworld was symbolic of slip space? The covies really wanted that forerunner crystal that has something to do with slip space. mmmm? More for you to chew on.

Anyways I went to a couple of websites on Eleusis. It was a place in greek times centered around the Eelusian cult about 2000 B.C. On these sites I saw something inregards to the "veil of death". I don't know what it is but maybe it has something to do with the activation of the Halo ring.

I also am guessing but is Eleusis have a connection to the word elusive? It said on some of these sites that the meaning of the Eleusis cult is shrouded in secrecy/mystery to this day. It said that around the temples fortress walls were errected. The Halo ring was refered to in the books as a "fortress world". also it appears that the covenant are looking for something that is eleusive.

[Edited on 4/22/2004 12:03:12 AM]

  • 04.21.2004 11:31 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Yikes! that would be scary,to encounter a 10m tall giant,and you would to sprint away,but maybe that poor big alien was friendly and wanted to communicate with you,or wonder :"what's that? A little green thing running around?

  • 04.22.2004 3:04 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I think your reading a little too much into this. The books are great don't get me wrong but the author could be barely keep track of the concrete stuff he said let alone the inuendos (?spelling?). Also, almost all of his measurements are in 10s. "Look that's gotta be ten meters high, they're thirty feet away, the ceiling was ten meters high)" its just lack of creativity.

On the other hand, I do believe that covenant don't hate the human race for any reason they just want to find Earth and get whatever is buried there.

Another fact, looking extremely deep Greek is mentioned alot in the book from SPARTANS to Toga wearing AI to the fimilar lettering the Cheif can' quite put his finger on. Unless, I'm mistaken wasn't Atlantis a Greek Legend. Wow, the forerunners are atlantisians!

Humans == Forerunners because 343 speaks english, mistakes chief for someone who looks similar (wow there are those greek soldiers that MJOLNIR armor looks so much like), and the all the forerunner artifacts (the map to Halo on Cote D'Azur, the crystal on Reach) are all on human colonized planets.

  • 04.22.2004 3:33 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Thats Right! Another Greek connection. They were called Spartans because the looked like greek gods or warriors. Mmmmm?

  • 04.22.2004 9:21 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

yes true the tunnels are huge, my friends always ask why

i'd say the covenant are so related to forerunner their cargo bays transport them

i doubt the forerunners are as high as the passages seen on AOTCR and HALO missions 2 5 although (im getting the books 23rd tomoro for Bday) But yes the overlapped covenant textures might be a galactic map to other HALO's

Bungie are indeed smart! Most developers never think up such a complex story pre-design!

***EDIT*** If you ran into a huge 10m tall giant it wouldnt be friendly

when you begin the Two Betreyals level -notice Cortana says the flood are the ForeRunner's source of food
the flood eat humans etc to fatten up so the FR's can eat them

It's sick but this means the FR's aren't friendly

Humans use tools to obtain food

FR's use flood to obtain food

[Edited on 4/22/2004 9:34:21 AM]

  • 04.22.2004 9:27 AM PDT