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  • Subject: Respect, Or the Lack Thereof….
Subject: Respect, Or the Lack Thereof….

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Respect, Or the Lack Thereof….

You know, this is something that’s really been bugging me lately, so I have to get it off my chest. What better way then to Rant, I haven’t had one yet this month anyways.

Respect, Or the Lack Thereof, yes it means exactly what it says. There is an astonishing lack or respect around these Forums and it’s a bit pitiful when you look at it. Bungie worked there asses off for three years to make an Amazing game for us, at the same time they redid the whole 7th Column. After that, did they take a break like most would? No. They went straight to work on all new Maps for Downloadable Content, and finished and released them in record time in my opinion.

All this they do and what do you people do, thank them? No. You -blam!- about what wasn’t in the Game, what you think should be in the game, how you think things should be run, what should the Forums look like, what features to add to the Forums, DLC isn’t being worked on fast enough, why is DLC going to cost money, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I could go on for hours.

Now I’m not naming any names, or saying that anyone anywhere I post this is like this, but the lack of respect around here is literally disgusting. I see to few Thanks or you’re doing a great job posts. It’s all cluttered with, ok that’s done, but you should have added this or change it to this, or OK, now that that is done do this, and why is it taking so long?

Bungie has literally worked there asses of for the past 4 years to bring you enjoyment and entertainment, and then you have the nerve to try and tell them how to do there job and -blam!- about what you want, and even more nerve to -blam!- about DLC costing money. I’m sorry but I think Bungie deserves a little Damn respect for what they have done, and hell yes charge for it, cause they deserve a damn paycheck too.

It’s respect or the lack thereof, that’s been disgusting me and keeping me from the main forums lately. I think maybe we all need to learn a little about what respect is and how to show it….

  • 03.26.2005 2:37 AM PDT

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I agree fully to this.

*runs off and withdraws his life savings and hands it to bungie*

However, there will always be jerks in the world. Thankfully thought, they do eventually mature and regret what they did, and that's where we pounce and laugh at their stupid stupid mistakes and give back to them what they did to us and i'm rambling so i'll stop now.

  • 03.26.2005 3:14 AM PDT
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That's cause they let us down dude. Big time. No respect given, none returned.

  • 03.26.2005 5:29 AM PDT

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Maybe they let you down, but those of us who didn't assume that Bungie was promising us the Moon weren't let down. (Except for Halo 2's ending. I think everybody felt down on that one... but that shouldn't be a killer.)

-- Steve's wondering if Zanzibar should be renamed "The Kennel" due to all the -blam!-ing that goes on in there.

  • 03.26.2005 6:01 AM PDT
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Well, the lack of respect for Bungie was extremely troubling when the game came out, but now it's slightly better. It was just because of the over hype and all. The game is the best FPS for Xbox and still top quality in gaming history. But we all have our opinions, unfortunately...

  • 03.26.2005 6:24 AM PDT
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Posted by: hatrock99
That's cause they let us down dude. Big time. No respect given, none returned.


I was once said that the only people that were let down by the game are those who looked to it as if it was the second coming of the Messiah.

[Edited on 3/26/2005 7:07:57 AM]

  • 03.26.2005 7:07 AM PDT
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While in the shower this morning I think that I may have come up with a possible understanding of the divide between the happy and unhappy.

Quote of the Year

  • 03.26.2005 7:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: ObbiQuiet
While in the shower this morning I think that I may have come up with a possible understanding of the divide between the happy and unhappy.

Quote of the Year

Absolutely unintentional as a standalone. But amazingly innocent and unintended ones like that usually are.

But when I saw it like that, I have to admit, it IS pretty bad.


Yes, it's had me in a state of giggles for the past few moments. It even made it in my memo book.

Anyway, I do like your points. Though you said the issue didn't have to do with maturity I disagree. The way you presented the issue between the "fanbois" and "crybabies" hinted that you were talking about extremists. I believe these extremists - those who were completely and utterly happy with Halo 2 and those who weren't - to both be highly immature. Immature people tend to like to paint the world in black and white. "It was a good game or it wasn't. I loved or hated it."

To be completely and utterly upset about Halo 2, I think, can only be done if (a) you never played it (b) you ignore a large portion of the game. I'm not sure if there exists a person who wasn't honestly thrilled the first time they jumped on the back of a Scarab, duel-wielded a gun or hijacked a vehicle. We may not be thrilled now, but I believe in retrospect we all were. If the game succeeded in those moments of thrilling you and sending pleasure signals across your brain, then I believe sticking to the "crybaby" side is idiocy. It's nationalism manifesting itself yet again (not in the political sense - we're talking mere basic human sociology).

The opposite is also true. If ever at one point in time you felt bored, unconvinced, uninterested or pained by that cursed cliffhanger then to align yourself with the "Halo 2 = good^(infinity)" is also dumb.

I think the mature person recognizes faults and successes together and forms a bitter-sweet picture of the end result.

But, of course, I could just be assuming too much. This really is kind of playing "The Psychic", reading into the target audiences's mind.

  • 03.26.2005 8:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
If Bungie made music (they do, but it's a component of the package) like say a pop-music group, and the "consumer/customer" spent their money and was displeased, disappointed or otherwise unhappy with the entertainment they expected or the performance of the artist, what does a consumer of entertainment do? I believe that unhappy consumers of entertainment typically move along and find something else that DOES entertain them. Similarly, people who view a game as entertainment and who aren't disappointed, well, they have no complaints and would also fall into the "happy" group.


Well, I'd say that as you grow accustomed to brand names/styles/artists, you begin to build up expectations around the entertainment that you buy. If I were to idolize a singer, and then have him release what I felt was bad entertainment, I think I would be understandably frustrated, not by the loss of money, but by the loss of entertainment I felt I was promised.

If you can trick people into taking pride in something, you can trick them into becoming as vocal or vehemently angry as you desire. Lionize yourself and demonize everyone else, so to speak. "We are TRUE fans, and YOU are brainwashed" is chanted on both sides.

  • 03.26.2005 5:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
But other than the "Disco Sucks" movement of the late 70's, I can't recall a group of disappointed music fans getting as vocal as the "unhappy" members of the Bungie community.

Well, most of weren't exactly born in the late 70's, more like the late 80's, so we wouldn't really know.

  • 03.26.2005 6:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
While in the shower this morning I think that I may have come up with a possible understanding of the divide between the happy and unhappy. Or as they are called by the other side the whiners and the fanboys.

I'm going to try to not call either side names, I am going to try to only mention what I observe of this "difference". I am going to try VERY hard to not attribute reasons to the differences as those are what usually causes more problem and disagreement. For example; using terms like "we real fans" or saying "Bungie is just counting their money" is a person attributing motivation to someone they do not know. It's neither accurate, nor true and only serves to cloud the issue.

The unhappy folks (referred to as "whiners by a percentage of the happy folks) really like Halo. Perhaps they first discovered Bungie because of Halo, perhaps they didn't. But they developed a very strong appreciation and relation with the game. When Halo 2 came out, it was not the same game (or what they felt they were promised, or expected, or deserved). They feel betrayed and let down.

The happy folks (referred to as fanboys by a percentage of the unhappy folks) really liked Halo. Perhaps they first discovered Bungie because of Halo, perhaps they didn't. When Halo 2 came out, it was not the same game. They don't appear to have as much of a problem with this fact.

That to me seems to be the core difference between the happy and the unhappy people in this community. That is said with no animosity or favoritism for or against either group. I think that I also see the key and focal point on the divide as well. It's got nothing to do with maturity, it's got nothing to do with being a "good" or "bad" or even a "true" fan, or anything along those lines. It has to do with how each of us views and defines a game.

Is a game a product or is it a form of entertainment? I believe that this is the key question for either group.

If a person who didn't like Halo 2 believes that games (such as Halo and Halo 2) are a product, like a car, or a hardware console, or a pair of shoes, then I suspect that they are likely members of the "unhappy" group.

If a person who didn't like Halo 2 believes that games (such as Halo and Halo 2) are a form of entertainment, like a movie, or a book, or a music album then I suspect that they are NOT likely members of the vocal "unhappy" group.

If Bungie made shoes and the "consumer/customer" (terms that I hear used frequently by the unhappy) spent their money and is dissatisfied with what they purchased, they are understandably and deservedly upset. As far as they are concerned, the PRODUCT failed to live up to their expectations or desires and they feel as if their money was not wisely spent. They expect satisfaction and understandably so. People who view a game as a product and who aren't disappointed, well, they have no complaints and would fall into the "happy" group.

If Bungie made music (they do, but it's a component of the package) like say a pop-music group, and the "consumer/customer" spent their money and was displeased, disappointed or otherwise unhappy with the entertainment they expected or the performance of the artist, what does a consumer of entertainment do? I believe that unhappy consumers of entertainment typically move along and find something else that DOES entertain them. Similarly, people who view a game as entertainment and who aren't disappointed, well, they have no complaints and would also fall into the "happy" group.

Now, I don't think that one perception is "better" than the other. Each person comes to their own conclusion about whether they see a game as a product or as entertainment. But I do think that understanding a potential root of the disagreement might POSSIBLY lower some of the anger and animosity generated by the differences.

And by this point I was running out of hot water and so my brain stopped working. I think that I might make a thread with this observation in Zanzibar and watch it fall off of the first page in 30 seconds.



This should be stickied in every forum and made an front page artical. I agree fully. I'll just stay in The septegon untill this whole thing cools over. Well worded Recon.

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  • 03.27.2005 7:16 AM PDT

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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Yes, it's had me in a state of giggles for the past few moments. It even made it in my memo book.

Comming from Obbi I'd be scared ; )

but yes I agree with Recon. I sort of expected HAL0 2 to be like HAL0 with better graphics, a little tweaks in the game play, a couple of new weapons, and an extension (conclusion) to the story. However when they said they were making 2.0 not 1.5 that should have been a signal of a diffrent game with the same story setting. And yes HAL0 2 is a compleetly difrent game from HAL0. Just about everything from weapons to enemies were revamped. So you couldn't play HAL0 2 like you would play HAL0. Most sequals to games were the same with minor tweaks. Not a totally difrent game all together.

  • 03.27.2005 8:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
While in the shower this morning I think that I may have come up with a possible understanding of the divide between the happy and unhappy.

Quote of the Year



I was thinking the exact same thing.

  • 03.27.2005 8:26 AM PDT

Posted by: hatrock99
That's cause they let us down dude. Big time. No respect given, none returned.

Wow, it only took until the second reply for an ignorant comment to be posted.

The attitudes of people on these forums aren't ever going to get any better. It's just going to get worse.

  • 03.27.2005 9:28 AM PDT
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bungie has done a helluva lot more for halo 2 than zipper has done for socom 2... thats for sure.
but the bungie forums are tough to read i think compared to the playstation.com forums.

  • 03.27.2005 10:02 AM PDT
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Yo Halo53, I'm real happy for you and I'ma let you finish, but Beyonce had one of the best bungie.net profiles of all time. OF ALL TIME!

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Posted by: chris547
The attitudes of people on these forums aren't ever going to get any better. It's just going to get worse.


Ah, Chris. Always the optimist.


But it's the truth

  • 03.27.2005 11:22 AM PDT

Yay!

If I were a optimist, I would say that Bungie at least has a fan base large and popular enough for situations like these to occur. However being me, this thought didnt cross my mind at first.

What I see from these forums is that some people think "im behind a computer and can't be seen" before posting an opinion. A forum like Bungie's is an incredible tool if used correctly. Im just concerned that those who want their own way without cooperation or comprimise on these forums are absusing the tool given to us.

  • 03.27.2005 12:39 PM PDT