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This topic has moved here: Subject: Super Secret Forum?
  • Subject: Super Secret Forum?
Subject: Super Secret Forum?
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Posted by: SketchFactor
...I don't want to start an outpouring of support or disagreement.

I think you may wish to find another medium for your speculation, then :P. This is the Septagon, where everyone ignores everyone else in the loudest manner they possibly can.

  • 12.04.2008 6:52 PM PDT
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Ooh, this budded into a fun conversation while I was gone.
As far as the idea of making an exclusive forum goes, I suppose I'd be all right with it on the condition that (if they were built on titles) I wouldn't lose access to it if my title went down. Because that would cause so much chaos, especially because titles also fluctuate for reasons other than bans.

Posted by: SketchFactor
I'd be happy to do a front page story for newer members and highlight some great groups they could consider joining if anyone wanted to open their floodgates and expand their membership.

Your PM inbox is probably already full of people asking you about that offer with regards to their group. :P

[Edited on 12.04.2008 6:59 PM PST]

  • 12.04.2008 6:58 PM PDT
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SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: SketchFactor
...I don't want to start an outpouring of support or disagreement.

I think you may wish to find another medium for your speculation, then :P. This is the Septagon, where everyone ignores everyone else in the loudest manner they possibly can.


*IG-mother-blam!-NORES*

An idea is precisely that, and putting it out there is never wrong. Though I at least can understand why you would not want people to take it the wrong way, because that's pretty much what any speculation from someone with yellow or salmon text garners on these boards. I understand the difference between a hopeful speculatory idea and a news item. I was simply extending my own opinion on said speculation, just as we all did when you asked us about site ads. That was taken to be nothing more than speculation as well, but we all opined and I think the site was better for it.

It seems you did precisely as we asked and kept annoying things off of the site in that regard, so I'd even trust your collaborative judgment if you were to tackle this after Tom and chris finish whatever they're doing now.

So for the record, I support talking about this later, but I'm opposed to the idea now.

  • 12.04.2008 7:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: SketchFactor
I still think we'll find a way to continue to build on the titles you have on your name now, cross reference that with a persons history for behavior and contributions and their online reputation and create tiers of members where we can segregate like minded community members into appropriate groups.

Don't take this the wrong way.

But that's a horrendous idea.
You should explain why it's a bad idea. I think it's a great idea, it offers more expansion upon the site, where like-minded people can discuss, mingle in, and make friends. That's what all of this is about anyways: having fun and making friends!

  • 12.04.2008 7:49 PM PDT

Freedom has two parts: potential and resolution; as metaphors have two parts : form and interpretation; of course, the two are intertwined. Metaphor lines the road to freedom, as symbols and words are the bricks and mortar of meaning. Freedom being the briocoleus, the mason.
***END MESSAGE***
***JUMP ACTIVATION INITIATION START***
***TRANSPORT WHEN READY***

Why not make a script that will automatically search through all the unknown forum ids from 1 to infinity, untill you found something

  • 12.04.2008 7:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: burritosenior
A public private forum.
lol

  • 12.04.2008 7:51 PM PDT
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Moreover, and this is a bit off-topic, but I think with such an update (as mentioned by Sketch, yes I know it will not come anytime soon and it may not come at all) we should have a website update. The new website isn't as nearly as interactive as the old website (from what I've heard) and I think that's something that needs to be restored and part of what makes Bungie so unique. On the old website, there were fun icons, that hydraulic bar on the bottom of the page, etc, and it was just great in general.

The current iteration of the site IS awesome, but it just feels too dark and gloomy. I've always believed that a website should reflect the kind of people that work on it, and gloomy certainly isn't a characteristic. Anyways, the old site seemed more accepting, yet it was still dark enough so that it wouldn't put strain on your eyes. I liked that, and even though I wasn't a member then, I think many can agree. I'm not saying that Achronos should magically restore the old website settings, I'm just saying that perhaps sometime in the future it would be nice to brighten this place up a little bit. Sorry for babbling, but that's just how I feel. =)

[Edited on 12.04.2008 8:03 PM PST]

  • 12.04.2008 7:55 PM PDT
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People post a certain way to get member titles. That is a fact. People post a certain way to keep member title. That is a fact. How could we possibly distinguish which people would be permitted into this "secret forum". The trust system? Obviously not. Personally, I believe this stie is not eHarmony, meaning that this forum is trying to create a group of people very closely related to each other. No one is taking a compatibility test and there is obviously no fair way to distinguish members who are "in" and those who are "out". This would only create more senseless posting to get "in".

  • 12.04.2008 8:04 PM PDT

if knowledge is power and power corrupts, isn't knowledge therefore dangerous?
Black Tower

Posted by: Great_Pretender
It's still there. We can move threads into it, but we can't actually see them once we do. The link to the thread brings up another hegemony page.

-TGP-

like the link in this post?
access denied... :(

  • 12.04.2008 8:06 PM PDT

No signature found. Click here to change this.

Posted by: SketchFactor
Let the bad kids hang with the bad kids, let the good people hang with the good people. Since we dont let users 'mute' other people's posts, we need to find ways to build those barriers for you.
I think you just solved the problem you identified in that post. Instead of babysitting us and covering our eyes from the bad stuff on TV, why dont you give us the option to mute or collapse other users posts? If we could permanently block other users from complete veiwing on this site, the Web Team wouldn't have to work so hard to create these barriers that eventually fall.

Instead of leaving the division in the mind of a machine, why not give every individual person that power? That way it can never go faulty. I know a few people on this site that I would gladly block out if I was given that option.

  • 12.04.2008 8:10 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: stalts27
People post a certain way to get member titles. That is a fact. People post a certain way to keep member title. That is a fact. How could we possibly distinguish which people would be permitted into this "secret forum". The trust system? Obviously not. Personally, I believe this stie is not eHarmony, meaning that this forum is trying to create a group of people very closely related to each other. No one is taking a compatibility test and there is obviously no fair way to distinguish members who are "in" and those who are "out". This would only create more senseless posting to get "in".
If by "a certain way" you mean "respectfully and responsibly," then yes, in that you are correct, and the rest of your argument falls flat on its face.

  • 12.04.2008 8:11 PM PDT

It's what we wait for...
It's what we live for...

Posted by: SketchFactor
Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: SketchFactor
I still think we'll find a way to continue to build on the titles you have on your name now, cross reference that with a persons history for behavior and contributions and their online reputation and create tiers of members where we can segregate like minded community members into appropriate groups.

Don't take this the wrong way.

But that's a horrendous idea.


To each his own. I disagree. And I think people would welcome an opportunity to engage in discussions with other like-minded fans without having a few thousand jerks raining on the parade. Let the bad kids hang with the bad kids, let the good people hang with the good people. Since we dont let users 'mute' other people's posts, we need to find ways to build those barriers for you.

And if anything, this wouldn't be site wide, there would be still be plenty of overcrowded common forums full of people talking over each other and fighting with one another.


I believe that there were major historical figures who specifically fought peacefully for NO SEGREGATION. You're just discriminating against those less intelligent. Now, I don't care if you go around with "it's not illegal, its our forum, we can do whatever we want," but it makes you guys look like HUGE a-holes...I mean, you're not exactly on the good foot as is, don't make it worse.

  • 12.04.2008 8:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: stalts27
People post a certain way to get member titles. That is a fact. People post a certain way to keep member title. That is a fact. How could we possibly distinguish which people would be permitted into this "secret forum". The trust system? Obviously not. Personally, I believe this stie is not eHarmony, meaning that this forum is trying to create a group of people very closely related to each other. No one is taking a compatibility test and there is obviously no fair way to distinguish members who are "in" and those who are "out". This would only create more senseless posting to get "in".
If by "a certain way" you mean "respectfully and responsibly," then yes, in that you are correct, and the rest of your argument falls flat on its face.

How?

  • 12.04.2008 8:20 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: stalts27
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: stalts27
People post a certain way to get member titles. That is a fact. People post a certain way to keep member title. That is a fact. How could we possibly distinguish which people would be permitted into this "secret forum". The trust system? Obviously not. Personally, I believe this stie is not eHarmony, meaning that this forum is trying to create a group of people very closely related to each other. No one is taking a compatibility test and there is obviously no fair way to distinguish members who are "in" and those who are "out". This would only create more senseless posting to get "in".
If by "a certain way" you mean "respectfully and responsibly," then yes, in that you are correct, and the rest of your argument falls flat on its face.

How?
Because if this "certain way" of posting to obtain and keep member titles is, in fact, good posting, then the trust system absolutely is the way to implement such a thing, should it ever be implemented.

Not that I'm in favor of a separate forum (we have plenty with groups, IMO), but if I were, I think the trust system does a fine job of sorting out the wheat from the chaff, given the exception of newer members--but of course trust can only be earned over time, so this is an acceptable flaw of the system.

[Edited on 12.04.2008 8:25 PM PST]

  • 12.04.2008 8:24 PM PDT

Call me Reach.

Posted by: burritosenior
Sorry, this not a big deal... but this is just buggin me a little because I love the Halo 3 forum, my main one:
Try wading into the Halo 3 forum and starting up any intelligent a and you'll see that it quickly goes down the toilet.
I would like to point out that I have actually had very good, intelligent, not flame filled debate in the Halo 3 forum semi-recently, and I can name it.

...Just saying...hope is not lost. There are some smart and good people in that forum. I love it when I meet those people in the forums.

If something like this forum idea was implemented ever, I hope all the forums are looked at for people, no matter their reputation.

There was a really long, civilized discussion about the Trip Mine a while back. Foman's Banshee thread is always reassuring.

Finding an intelligent discussion on the Halo 3 Forum is like trying to find a needle in a haystack (if you'll excuse the cliche)

This forum and the Optimatch are the best places to have a long-running conversation (to some extent), with this forum having the greatest thoughtful posts.

Private groups are great. Posts are more in-depth, and they last longer because they aren't available to any random forumgoer out there.

  • 12.04.2008 8:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: stalts27
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: stalts27
People post a certain way to get member titles. That is a fact. People post a certain way to keep member title. That is a fact. How could we possibly distinguish which people would be permitted into this "secret forum". The trust system? Obviously not. Personally, I believe this stie is not eHarmony, meaning that this forum is trying to create a group of people very closely related to each other. No one is taking a compatibility test and there is obviously no fair way to distinguish members who are "in" and those who are "out". This would only create more senseless posting to get "in".
If by "a certain way" you mean "respectfully and responsibly," then yes, in that you are correct, and the rest of your argument falls flat on its face.

How?
Because if this "certain way" of posting to obtain and keep member titles is, in fact, good posting, then the trust system absolutely is the way to implement such a thing, should it ever be implemented.

Not that I'm in favor of a separate forum (we have plenty with groups, IMO), but if I were, I think the trust system does a fine job of sorting out the wheat from the chaff, given the exception of newer members--but of course trust can only be earned over time, so this is an acceptable flaw of the system.

But people are throwing out their identity. They are restraining themselves from speaking their full opinion so they can be liked and get a member title. I do not call that "good posting". That is where my argument is.

  • 12.04.2008 8:27 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: stalts27
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: stalts27
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: stalts27
People post a certain way to get member titles. That is a fact. People post a certain way to keep member title. That is a fact. How could we possibly distinguish which people would be permitted into this "secret forum". The trust system? Obviously not. Personally, I believe this stie is not eHarmony, meaning that this forum is trying to create a group of people very closely related to each other. No one is taking a compatibility test and there is obviously no fair way to distinguish members who are "in" and those who are "out". This would only create more senseless posting to get "in".
If by "a certain way" you mean "respectfully and responsibly," then yes, in that you are correct, and the rest of your argument falls flat on its face.

How?
Because if this "certain way" of posting to obtain and keep member titles is, in fact, good posting, then the trust system absolutely is the way to implement such a thing, should it ever be implemented.

Not that I'm in favor of a separate forum (we have plenty with groups, IMO), but if I were, I think the trust system does a fine job of sorting out the wheat from the chaff, given the exception of newer members--but of course trust can only be earned over time, so this is an acceptable flaw of the system.

But people are throwing out their identity. They are restraining themselves from speaking their full opinion so they can be liked and get a member title. I do not call that "good posting". That is where my argument is.
Who is doing that? I pity them. One, because they're not being themselves, and two, because they're doing so because they misunderstand the system. From what I've gathered, it doesn't punish you for having opinions--and from what I've read Achronos saying about speaking his own mind, I cannot fathom that he would have designed it that way. People do not get banned or warned for opinons here--only for expressing them in a negative way that breaks the rules they agreed to.

Go browse my posts, as an example. I'm an opinionated son-of-a-gun on just about everything. Do my posts look like I'm compromising myself? I certainly don't think so. The only restraint I am employing is being slightly less abrasive and condescending in expressing my opinions, which are things I ought to be doing, anyway, member titles or not. Is that kind of restraint what you consider the opposite of good posting?

  • 12.04.2008 8:45 PM PDT
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Great idea. Now how to sort the good guys from the bad......



Posted by: SketchFactor
Do you think we could quietly make a secret forum and tell just the "good" people to go there? That'd be nice.

  • 12.04.2008 9:00 PM PDT

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Indeed, forum ID #11 is The Marty Army. As for the link that was given, it didn't show anything.

(I was under the impression that you must access the forum index for a specific group under that group's directory)

  • 12.04.2008 9:01 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: stalts27
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: stalts27
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: stalts27
People post a certain way to get member titles. That is a fact. People post a certain way to keep member title. That is a fact. How could we possibly distinguish which people would be permitted into this "secret forum". The trust system? Obviously not. Personally, I believe this stie is not eHarmony, meaning that this forum is trying to create a group of people very closely related to each other. No one is taking a compatibility test and there is obviously no fair way to distinguish members who are "in" and those who are "out". This would only create more senseless posting to get "in".
If by "a certain way" you mean "respectfully and responsibly," then yes, in that you are correct, and the rest of your argument falls flat on its face.

How?
Because if this "certain way" of posting to obtain and keep member titles is, in fact, good posting, then the trust system absolutely is the way to implement such a thing, should it ever be implemented.

Not that I'm in favor of a separate forum (we have plenty with groups, IMO), but if I were, I think the trust system does a fine job of sorting out the wheat from the chaff, given the exception of newer members--but of course trust can only be earned over time, so this is an acceptable flaw of the system.

But people are throwing out their identity. They are restraining themselves from speaking their full opinion so they can be liked and get a member title. I do not call that "good posting". That is where my argument is.
Or, to put it more simply, if posting responsibly and respectfully requires that people throw out their identity, then I think that their identity probably isn't welcome here.

  • 12.04.2008 9:02 PM PDT

"Once Bungie takes over the world, The Marty Army will take over Bungie and then we'll really have some fun."
-Marty O'Donnell

"Condemnant quod non intellegunt."

Make Bungie.net More Enjoyable: Read & Follow

Posted by: SketchFactor
Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: SketchFactor
I still think we'll find a way to continue to build on the titles you have on your name now, cross reference that with a persons history for behavior and contributions and their online reputation and create tiers of members where we can segregate like minded community members into appropriate groups.

Don't take this the wrong way.

But that's a horrendous idea.


To each his own. I disagree. And I think people would welcome an opportunity to engage in discussions with other like-minded fans without having a few thousand jerks raining on the parade. Let the bad kids hang with the bad kids, let the good people hang with the good people. Since we dont let users 'mute' other people's posts, we need to find ways to build those barriers for you.

And if anything, this wouldn't be site wide, there would be still be plenty of overcrowded common forums full of people talking over each other and fighting with one another.

I'm going to have to agree with Sketch 100% here.

It is a more conducive environment for relationships when you share similarities with your piers. For that reason, segregation on a site like this isn't only good, but it is what happens naturally.

Private Groups have obviously been the current way of implementing this, but as people have said, newer members might have a hard time finding their way and getting settled. Maybe a welcome thread would be a good idea.

People could introduce themselves and others could give them/answer there questions. I'm not sure how well something like this would work out, but it is one way to implement a system that gets new members settled with the people they can hang out with - easier.

If, as you said, the good kids hang out with the good kids, constructive, intelligent discussion is less hindered by the bad kids. As you said, go post an intelligent topic and the Halo 3 Forum and it will go down the toilet.

Well, I'm sure Achronos could figure something out. What he does always seems to, well, work, so I'll leave the details to him.

  • 12.04.2008 9:13 PM PDT

"I hope nothing, I fear nothing, I am free"
"A person needs a little madness, or else they never dare cut the rope and be free." - Nikos Kazantzakis
"The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of martyrs" - Hasan al-Basri
Black Chapter, for all religious and political debate that doesn't fit in the Flood.

Posted by: SketchFactor
I think people would welcome an opportunity to engage in discussions with other like-minded jerks without having a few thousand fans raining on the parade.
Fix'd.

Great, super secret forums. I quite like my ability to pick up folk worth talking to/listening to and ignoring others, it's been fine tuned by many years of sifting through this site and others. ;)

Besides, we manage to have intelligent discussion in the Flood as things stand. *shrugs*

I can settle for open discussion and self-filtering the 'bad seeds' as opposed to a secret forum in which only those who 'play nice' exist. Sometimes you've just got to play nasty. >:D

  • 12.04.2008 11:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Since the member titles were introduced, I have always supported the idea of a forum for people with elevated titles. In fact, I raised this idea again four days ago. I think that this would be a great incentive to gain and maintain such titles, and the forum would be virtually free of spammers and alternate accounts created solely for rulebreaking. Moreover, it would be a truly awesome conduit for more interaction with Bungie employees.

I find the arguments against such an idea to be unpersuasive.

Posted by: RighteousTyrant (and others)
But...that's what we already do in private groups, isn't it?

No, private groups are not a valid substitute for several reasons.

Private groups are subject to administrators who must approve new members, and are completely invisible to users who are not members. This public forum would be like the Optimatch Forum -- visible to all, but you must have an elevated member title to interact (rather than a linked gamertag for the Optimatch Forum).

Private groups tend to be run by members, and, for the most part, run poorly. The quality private groups here that have truly lasted are either self-regulated by their members, or run by experienced admins who dedicate hours a day to their groups. All the same, they are still subject to "spam attacks," group conquerors, group wars, the whims of immature and inexperienced administrators, and malicious users. A public forum would be regulated by the Bungie Web Team, Bungie employees with moderating tools, and the forum moderators.

The most important difference, of course, is that private groups are not the public forums and are rarely visited by Bungie employees (with a few exceptions). A public forum with regulated access to actually posting in it would allow Bungie employees to interact with users who have proven their trustworthiness and dedication to the site. The interaction could be much more as it was years ago, when the forums were much more readable, the topics were more well-thought out, the users were more self-regulating, and every post by a Bungie employee did not result in a tidal wave of people either sucking up or proving their "rebelliousness" by disagreeing solely on principle that the post was created by an employee.

Posted by: elmicker
Why do they need building? We're already more than capable of doing it ourselves thank you very much. Whether it be through simply ignoring the noise, moving to a group, or going even further and shifting off site. If you end up erecting artificial barriers on b.net, whatever theyre designed to protect will fail. Whatever could be discussed there could be discussed in public with greater input (bear in mind the type of people you're talking about have all been here years and are more than capable of dealing with idiocy), or in private groups with people whose company you actually enjoy, rather than the set of people who match the arbitrary rules.
I disagree. The claim that the barriers are "artificial" and "arbitrary" has no bearing on reality -- whatever the factors might be for trust rating, it is completely undeniable that the members who make it to the level of Heroic, Legendary, and Mythic are those who have demonstrated an ability to post within the forum rules and at least a modicum of interest in the site.

This, in and of itself, automatically removes a large portion of rule-breaking users, and I don't really see how you could make the argument with a straight face that this restriction on a public forum would not, for all intents and purposes, eliminate the problems of spam, alternate spam/flaming/troll accounts, and veteran users who have demonstrated repeated inability to or disinterest in following the forum rules within that forum.

You say that people would find a way around the restriction. Well sure, a user could create an alt, slowly work it up to Heroic, and then spam the "restricted posting" forum -- but what would be the point? Weeks or months of rule following just to create a single bad post in the restricted forum that would bump him back out of the forum? I don't see this happening. And, frankly, if a user WANTS to do that, let them do it -- I think that the benefits of having such a place outweigh the relatively tiny number of accounts that would have to be banned for this reason.

As for the claim that we can "build our own barriers" if we want, well that's true, and this idea would still not stop you from doing that. The ability for you to do this is absolutely irrelevant to whether or not a "restricted posting" forum based on member title would or would not be a good idea. You can still create whatever private groups or offsite locations that you want -- they would simply be places where you can go to interact with your own group of friends. But the "restricted posting" forum would be a place for intelligent interaction with users who have a demonstrated record of following forum rules and, hopefully, Bungie employees with more intimate knowledge of the games as well. It could only be a good thing -- how would it be detrimental in any way?

Posted by: elmicker
Rather, I'd like ways for those "valued" users to be able to set themselves apart and build an identity through entirely inconsequential features. The beginnings of such a system are there with the titles, but things like (limited?) custom avatars and titles would provide much more of an incentive to maintain an identity than there is on the site now.
I disagree. From my interactions through these forums and thousands of private messages from forumgoers, I have reached the opinion that the ability to post in a public forum is a much stronger incentive to follow the rules than the possibility of a custom avatar.

Building an identity here is not the same thing as being a rule-following, trustworthy user. Many users here have successfully built a very strong identity while being chronic rulebreakers. This idea of a public forum with restricted posting access for members with elevated titles is not for users who have an "identity." It is for users who have demonstrated trustworthiness, rule-following, and some level of dedication to the site (by "dedication," I mean that they post regularly). In other words, the kind of people who are likely to create a forum culture that encourages intelligent discussion rather than "noise."

I see nothing in your arguments against a restricted access forum that indicates that this would be a bad thing.

Posted by: CAVX
I suppose I'd be all right with it on the condition that (if they were built on titles) I wouldn't lose access to it if my title went down.
I think that the whole idea would be to be able to get rid of users who fail to demonstrate an ability to follow forum rules. A member with an elevated title who spammed the restricted-access forum would be banned, lose member title, and no longer be able to post in that forum. Are you still against the idea in that instance?

By the way, member titles seem, to me at least, to be fluctuating a lot less lately since Achronos made his changes to the trust system.

Posted by: stalts27
People post a certain way to get member titles. That is a fact. People post a certain way to keep member title. That is a fact. How could we possibly distinguish which people would be permitted into this "secret forum". The trust system? Obviously not. Personally, I believe this stie is not eHarmony, meaning that this forum is trying to create a group of people very closely related to each other. No one is taking a compatibility test and there is obviously no fair way to distinguish members who are "in" and those who are "out". This would only create more senseless posting to get "in".

My question to you is, what is your point? A user who modifies his posting style to comply with forum rules is doing exactly what the forum rules are intended to accomplish. That is, engaging in normal, reasonable, on-topic discussion. Big deal if that's not what they "want" to post.

I really don't see why this is a bad thing.

Posted by: Screecherz
I think you just solved the problem you identified in that post. Instead of babysitting us and covering our eyes from the bad stuff on TV, why dont you give us the option to mute or collapse other users posts? If we could permanently block other users from complete veiwing on this site, the Web Team wouldn't have to work so hard to create these barriers that eventually fall.
That's not a solution. That idea has been discussed numerous times in this forum for years, and always fails for two reasons:

1) There are hundreds of thousands of users on this site. How on earth would you block all of the bad ones? I can sit here banning people for 6 hours a day for seven days in a row from all of the public forums. I walk away, come back one hour later, and will STILL find posts that I don't want to see. The "mute" or "block" option would take extreme dedication to be effective -- dedication that no user on this site should have to put in.

2) Many people would never use it. Moderators certainly wouldn't. Neither would any other member who knows that sometimes, the same person can make great posts one day and break the rules another day. Neither would any member who wants to be able to follow the thread of discussion. Neither would the "casual" user who only hops onto Bungie.net once or twice a week, or even more infrequently. Yet all of these people are those who could potentially benefit from a forum culture of reduced "noise" and spam. This is why a "restricted access" forum is a superior approach.




[Edited on 12.05.2008 12:00 AM PST]

  • 12.04.2008 11:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Martyrcrf203
I believe that there were major historical figures who specifically fought peacefully for NO SEGREGATION. You're just discriminating against those less intelligent. Now, I don't care if you go around with "it's not illegal, its our forum, we can do whatever we want," but it makes you guys look like HUGE a-holes...I mean, you're not exactly on the good foot as is, don't make it worse.
This is not segregation. You cannot compare the Civil Rights Movement to restricting access on an internet forum to users who have demonstrated an ability and willingness to follow the rules and at least some dedication to the website.

By that logic, convicted criminals should not be in jail, spammers should not be banned from this forum, the world's best universities should accept every applicant, and every private group with "approval required" for access is engaging in discrimination.

The types of discrimination that are looked upon as being improper by humanity all involve discriminating against a group of people who have a common characteristic that is irrelevant to the type of access they are trying to gain.

Posted by: stalts27
But people are throwing out their identity. They are restraining themselves from speaking their full opinion so they can be liked and get a member title. I do not call that "good posting". That is where my argument is.
Wrong. People like elmicker speak their full opinion all the time, and he is a Mythic Member and most certainly has maintained his own identity here on the forums. Anybody who feels that they are "restraining" themselves from spamming, flaming, bumping, being a jerk, posting off-topic, or breaking the rules is probably improving their character, and I have absolutely no problem with them shedding that part of their "identity" in order to gain access to a restricted-posting forum.

Posted by: Primum Agmen
Great, super secret forums. I quite like my ability to pick up folk worth talking to/listening to and ignoring others, it's been fine tuned by many years of sifting through this site and others. ;)

Besides, we manage to have intelligent discussion in the Flood as things stand. *shrugs*

I can settle for open discussion and self-filtering the 'bad seeds' as opposed to a secret forum in which only those who 'play nice' exist. Sometimes you've just got to play nasty. >:D
Intelligent discussion in the Flood was achieved only after a massive crackdown by the admins and moderators of this site. You and people like you may have a self-filtering ability, but there is no way to reasonably argue that it is more desirable to see a higher number of worthless threads on the front page of a forum.

Your ability to filter through to find good discussions is likely quite similar to my own, developed after long experience on these forums. However, many people do not have this level of patience and understanding. Look at all of the times that Bungie employees and forumgoers both have complained about the noise level of the forums. Many users who are regulars of this forum have stated that they refuse to visit the Halo 3 Forum and/or the Flood Forum anymore. That doesn't make them bad members -- it makes them intolerant of the spam, crap, repeat topics, and flaming that, despite the moderators' efforts, is present far too often in these forums.

A "restricted-posting" public forum would largely eliminate that and numerous other problems. Nobody says that such a place MUST be THE place where users establish themselves or their identity -- it would simply be a place where users can go when they want to see or participate in intelligent, high-quality threads and interaction with the Bungie employees who choose to visit can go.

What's more, such a forum could act not just as an incentive to other members to post well, but even as a positive influence on the other forums' cultures. As the old adage goes, "lead by example." In this case, a public forum with restricted posting ability -- but readability to any member or non-member who chooses to visit -- could, if it contains lots of great threads and intelligent discussion, influence the way people post in other forums as well, including both regular members and members with elevated member titles.

I can't really see any argument that such a forum would be detrimental to this website or this community in any way.

  • 12.04.2008 11:55 PM PDT